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Question: Rudeness on OC.Net
I think it should be strictly moderated (provide standards in comment below)
I think only the most extreme rudeness should be moderated (provide standards in post below)
I think it should be discouraged, but people should self-moderate (explain why below)
I think it should be allowed completely (explain below)
No opinion / neutral

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« on: October 17, 2013, 10:38:45 PM »

As a split from the "Better Forum?" thread, a place to specifically discuss the topic of rudeness on OC.net.
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 10:55:43 PM »

Rudeness should only be moderated by rudeness. Lets outriders each other .
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2013, 11:10:01 PM »

I think that rudeness should be discouraged. People who exhibit a pattern of rudeness should receive a warning. This is an Orthodox forum, and everyone here should be able to passionately debate and disagree without resorting to personal attacks, ridicule, and unchristian behavior. Because this is an Orthodox forum, our standards should be much different from other internet forums. I think sarcasm is fine, and quite appropriate at times. But to personally demean, belittle, and mock those with whom we disagree is unacceptable for an Orthodox forum. I often wonder how many Orthodox inquirers have been turned away from Orthodoxy by much of the behavior they see here. And as much as I would love to recommend this forum to others - because their is indeed an abundance of wonderful information and knowledge on this site - I never do, because I am fearful that they will be disgusted by the rudeness they observe.

I know that I have sometimes been rude and unchristian in my own behavior here. I am deeply sorry for that. I hope that we can all strive to do better.


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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2013, 11:21:55 PM »

Rudeness is subjective. What one person thinks is rude, another thinks is funny or clever.
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 11:27:31 PM »

Rudeness is subjective. What one person thinks is rude, another thinks is funny or clever.


Technically, yes. But I think it's pretty clear most of the time.


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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2013, 11:31:13 PM »

Yeah. I really have no idea what the question is. Define 'Rudeness' please.  Grin
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2013, 11:31:53 PM »

I think that rudeness should be discouraged. People who exhibit a pattern of rudeness should receive a warning. This is an Orthodox forum, and everyone here should be able to passionately debate and disagree without resorting to personal attacks, ridicule, and unchristian behavior. Because this is an Orthodox forum, our standards should be much different from other internet forums. I think sarcasm is fine, and quite appropriate at times. But to personally demean, belittle, and mock those with whom we disagree is unacceptable for an Orthodox forum. I often wonder how many Orthodox inquirers have been turned away from Orthodoxy by much of the behavior they see here. And as much as I would love to recommend this forum to others - because their is indeed an abundance of wonderful information and knowledge on this site - I never do, because I am fearful that they will be disgusted by the rudeness they observe.

I know that I have sometimes been rude and unchristian in my own behavior here. I am deeply sorry for that. I hope that we can all strive to do better.


Selam
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2013, 11:40:01 PM »

I voted #3. There are people here who don't know the difference between a rude remark, an ad hominem, a personal attack, and a threat. People who can't tell those things apart can't be allowed to invent rules for the forum.

Not to mention that judging rudeness on a forum is highly subjective.

If people read stuff here that makes them truly mad, then that's ridiculous. It's strangers on the Internet.

Of course, insults and inflammatory behavior should be avoided.
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2013, 11:41:07 PM »

Also is it difficult to know the tone of one's remark at times.
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2013, 11:50:14 PM »

Also is it difficult to know the tone of one's remark at times.

I just forget about trying to read tone altogether.

Hence I don't cry about what people write here.
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2013, 11:57:40 PM »

Rudeness should only be moderated by rudeness. Lets outriders each other .

I agree with this guy for most forums. Convert issues, Faith and prayer issues should stay as is, though.
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 12:25:27 AM »

Rudeness is largely a subjective construct that will differ from one person to the next, so I would not change our rules to make them stricter against rudeness. When such rudeness includes personal attacks, insults, or foul language, or it drives threads off topic, then I think it should be punished.
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2013, 12:40:24 AM »

I think that rudeness should be discouraged. People who exhibit a pattern of rudeness should receive a warning. This is an Orthodox forum, and everyone here should be able to passionately debate and disagree without resorting to personal attacks, ridicule, and unchristian behavior. Because this is an Orthodox forum, our standards should be much different from other internet forums. I think sarcasm is fine, and quite appropriate at times. But to personally demean, belittle, and mock those with whom we disagree is unacceptable for an Orthodox forum. I often wonder how many Orthodox inquirers have been turned away from Orthodoxy by much of the behavior they see here. And as much as I would love to recommend this forum to others - because their is indeed an abundance of wonderful information and knowledge on this site - I never do, because I am fearful that they will be disgusted by the rudeness they observe.

I know that I have sometimes been rude and unchristian in my own behavior here. I am deeply sorry for that. I hope that we can all strive to do better.


Selam

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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2013, 01:59:02 AM »

I remember the people at my Chicago area GOA parish always saying how in Greece the parishioners were extremely rude at the services, such as when taking communion and rushing the altar ALL AT ONCE, but when I later went to Greece what I saw did not justify the criticism.
What actually is the case is that we are spoiled by plenty of pews and huge spaces for worship.What they saw as rude I just realize is another way of doing things with smaller churches and less officers.

What is usually being termed as rude is the person doing the accusing being overly intolerant.

This is one of the Gospels greatest lessons, at every turn they accused Jesus of wrongly being nice to the sinners, and he went out of his way to accommodate the lowly , who others shunned as heretics and blasphemers.

Jesus stressed that those sinners were better off than those who think they are righteous.
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2013, 02:24:38 AM »

I remember the people at my Chicago area GOA parish always saying how in Greece the parishioners were extremely rude at the services, such as when taking communion and rushing the altar ALL AT ONCE, but when I later went to Greece what I saw did not justify the criticism.

One guy visitting Poland from the US noticed the concept of lines (to Communion or, actuallz, in general) is absent here.
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2013, 02:44:11 AM »

I don't know why there are several threads on this topic lately. Has there been an explosion of rude behavior here lately and I just haven't seen it? Uh oh...does that mean I'm being rude without realizing it? That's not good. I'm not the best judge of my own character, but I think the mods do a fairly good job, as far as unpaid, thankless sorta-jobs on the internet go. (Hey, thanks, mods.)

I suddenly feel very insensitive, though. The most I've ever felt from anything on this forum is moderate annoyance at the re-occurrence of certain go-nowhere topics or the too-cool-for-school vibe I get from certain posts (but again, that's my own subjective judgment, and it's really not worth a hill of beans...I don't know any of you personally, so who's to say what anyone here is actually like).

I guess I'd vote no opinion/neutral. I wouldn't want moderation strictly enforced against something that nobody can define, but at the same time if somebody has crossed the line with some remark, don't let it just sit there as though there's some sort of poster's bill of rights we've all agreed on and have to hold as sacrosanct. Just try to follow the golden rule as best as you can, and if you mess up and end up be-dotted, accept it and try to learn from your mistake rather than making a big public fuss.
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2013, 03:05:03 AM »

Here's an example, freshly-minted, from the Orthodox-Catholic board. Daniel Smith posts a lengthy piece, but helpful to the OP and well-informed:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,51543.msg1008083.html#msg1008083

The next post:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,51543.msg1008093.html#msg1008093

Quote
Too much to read! Lazy mode activated, shutting down. . .

Is it really necessary for someone to openly show such blatant discourtesy and disdain for the efforts of another, who is making an honest effort to actually help the OP, and, in this case, an OP who is seriously considering conversion to Orthodoxy?

If folks find it so arduous to read posts longer than a tweet, then at least have the decency to keep it to yourself.  Angry



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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2013, 03:17:12 AM »

I remember the people at my Chicago area GOA parish always saying how in Greece the parishioners were extremely rude at the services, such as when taking communion and rushing the altar ALL AT ONCE, but when I later went to Greece what I saw did not justify the criticism.

One guy visitting Poland from the US noticed the concept of lines (to Communion or, actuallz, in general) is absent here.

Venite, populi, ad sacrum et immortale mysterium, et libamen agendum: cum timore et fide accedamus, manibus mundis: poenitentiae munus communicemus: quoniam Agnus Dei propter nos Patri sacrificium propositum est. Ipsum solum adoremus, ipsum glorificemus cum angelis clamantes: alleluia.

"Come, O people, to the sacred and immortal mystery; come and offer yourselves; let us approach with fear and faith, and with clean hands. Let us partake of the gift of reconciliation, for the Lamb of God offered himself as a sacrifice to the Father for our sakes. Let us adore him alone and glorify him, crying out with the angels: alleluia."
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2013, 03:24:10 AM »

Rudeness should only be moderated by rudeness. Lets outriders each other .

Provided that I receive the same treatment I can make all of you cry at once. Don't try me. But I think one should be sensitive and delicate when dealing with things of the heart/soul/spirituality.
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2013, 03:29:39 AM »

I voted for strict moderated rudeness. I am mostly against off-topic unanswering replies that deride threads. I think this kind of siliness has gone to far. We are on a forum to discuss. If anyone does not want to respectfully discuss on the subject he should not bother to reply. Some are trolls from 7.AM in the morning till 12.AM in the evening. The morning troll Romaios has started his roll already. I think conversation and real dialogue should be encouraged on this forum, not stupidity and off-topics. Also answers that send someone to read the bible or any other document without at least a quotation and a show of an awareness from one that makes that call should be taken as RUDE aswell and be strictly moderated. I think this forum has yet a lot of garbage, especially the "Faith Issues" section who is the worst. Another suggestion is find better moderators.
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2013, 03:31:45 AM »

I voted for c) however I was divided between it and b). Depending how you define rudeness.
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2013, 03:35:30 AM »

BTW it looks like this thread evolved into users listing other users they consider to be not nice. Maybe create separate thread then? But in Private Fora most likely. Like "I hate X, Y...".
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2013, 03:37:59 AM »

There is no such thing as self-moderation (if there is no penalty involved they don't have to do it). So that option is stupid. Because a lot of people here have proven to just simply be beasts and internet yahoos.
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2013, 03:41:37 AM »

BTW it looks like this thread evolved into users listing other users they consider to be not nice. Maybe create separate thread then? But in Private Fora most likely. Like "I hate X, Y...".

I did not give the name of the forum member who made the rude post, and nowhere have I said "I hate X". His post, however, is on the public forum, and in a section supposedly set aside for serious discussion.

Stop putting words in my mouth, Michal, it's dishonest and rude.
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2013, 03:43:03 AM »

BTW it looks like this thread evolved into users listing other users they consider to be not nice. Maybe create separate thread then? But in Private Fora most likely. Like "I hate X, Y...".

I did not give the name of the forum member who made the rude post, and nowhere have I said "I hate X". His post, however, is on the public forum, and in a section supposedly set aside for serious discussion.

Stop putting words in my mouth, Michal, it's dishonest and rude.

He wasn't necessarily referring to you:

The morning troll Romaios has started his roll already.
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2013, 03:43:22 AM »

I did not give the name of the forum member who made the rude post, and nowhere have I said "I hate X". His post, however, is on the public forum, and in a section supposedly set aside for serious discussion.

You shared a link to it. Pretty much the same.
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 03:45:46 AM »

The morning troll Romaios has started his roll already.


That's not rude - it's just cute! Smiley
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2013, 03:51:01 AM »

I did not give the name of the forum member who made the rude post, and nowhere have I said "I hate X". His post, however, is on the public forum, and in a section supposedly set aside for serious discussion.

You shared a link to it. Pretty much the same.

You're still insinuating I said "I hate ....". I did not attack the person who made the post, I criticized the post he made, and provided it as an example of rudeness which infests this forum, which, after all, is the purpose of this thread.
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2013, 03:54:10 AM »

The morning troll Romaios has started his roll already.


That's not rude - it's just cute! Smiley

I'd feel flattered as well.
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2013, 04:01:06 AM »

I did not give the name of the forum member who made the rude post, and nowhere have I said "I hate X". His post, however, is on the public forum, and in a section supposedly set aside for serious discussion.

You shared a link to it. Pretty much the same.

You're still insinuating I said "I hate ....". I did not attack the person who made the post, I criticized the post he made, and provided it as an example of rudeness which infests this forum, which, after all, is the purpose of this thread.

I do not think complaining about particular posters is the purpose of this thread.
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2013, 04:10:44 AM »

I did not give the name of the forum member who made the rude post, and nowhere have I said "I hate X". His post, however, is on the public forum, and in a section supposedly set aside for serious discussion.

You shared a link to it. Pretty much the same.

You're still insinuating I said "I hate ....". I did not attack the person who made the post, I criticized the post he made, and provided it as an example of rudeness which infests this forum, which, after all, is the purpose of this thread.

I do not think complaining about particular posters is the purpose of this thread.

Here is the OP, posted by Fr George:

Quote
As a split from the "Better Forum?" thread, a place to specifically discuss the topic of rudeness on OC.net.

I have provided an example of a very recent post as an example of rudeness on this forum, and given reasons why it should be considered as rude. If that's not on-topic, then I don't know what is.

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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2013, 04:14:31 AM »

I think this forum needs some Mods changing or firing. Smiley It's worse to be +1,2,3 bad Mods extra than -1,2,3 bad Mods.
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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2013, 04:21:09 AM »

I think that rudeness should be discouraged. People who exhibit a pattern of rudeness should receive a warning. This is an Orthodox forum, and everyone here should be able to passionately debate and disagree without resorting to personal attacks, ridicule, and unchristian behavior.



Selam

I agree.
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2013, 04:24:04 AM »

Rudeness is subjective. What one person thinks is rude, another thinks is funny or clever.

Insensitiveness in sensitive required situations is not subjective. Some people act like they are 10. Most of you seem to have a poor judgement which is very sadening for spiritual desiring to be people.
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2013, 04:39:18 AM »

I think the main problem is some people consider this sort of fora / forum a joke while others take it seriously, seeking real spiritual dialogue and guidance on them. The problem is the first types. This is a Christian forum not a secular one. All the dialogues of this forum should be consumed under Christian ethics and politeness. The first types will always ridicule, make fun , disregard the spiritual questions of others and be THE TROLLS of the forum. The first category are here for the wrong motives and should be surveiled more strictly. The first type are probably the ones who need medical help. They probably don't go out in secular communities(online or in real life) doing this and come here to express their repressed emotions. They clearly are in disorder(both psychologically and in behaviour) so discipline is their medicine. Forum discipline and strict moderation can do nothing but help them, and help improve the forum, and help the people who are here for the good reasons. This is the solution by far. The forum off-topic trolls the "disordering" types, need discipline. They are sick and need treatment and need to let the rest who seek real spiritual dialogue in peace and stop disturbing them.

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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2013, 04:41:06 AM »

I actually think people who look to a bunch of strangers for spiritual advice are the ones who need serious help.
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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2013, 04:46:54 AM »

I actually think people who look to a bunch of strangers for spiritual advice are the ones who need serious help.

This is a spiritual forum for spiritual bonding. Not for 3 year olds to play with their toys in an undiscovered world (avis to those who have spiritually insensitive awareness).

Strangers don't ask spiritual advice from strangers, but brothers and sisters from brothers and sisters. Christians from Christians.

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« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2013, 04:47:08 AM »

I think the main problem is some people consider this sort of fora / forum a joke while others take it seriously, seeking real spiritual dialogue and guidance on them. The problem is the first types. This is a Christian forum not a secular one. All the dialogues of this forum should be consumed under Christian ethics and politeness. The first types will always ridicule, make fun , disregard the spiritual questions of others and be THE TROLLS of the forum. The first category are here for the wrong motives and should be surveiled more strictly. The first type are probably the ones who need medical help. They probably don't go out in secular communities(online or in real life) doing this and come here to express their repressed emotions. They clearly are in disorder(both psychologically and in behaviour) so discipline is their medicine. Forum discipline and strict moderation can do nothing but help them, and help improve the forum, and help the people who are here for the good reasons. This is the solution by far. The forum off-topic trolls the "disordering" types, need discipline. They are sick and need treatment and need to let the rest who seek real spiritual dialogue in peace and stop disturbing them.

What about those who come with questions but belligerently, even trollishly, refuse to accept the answers? Where do they fit in all of this?
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« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2013, 04:47:36 AM »

I actually think people who look to a bunch of strangers for spiritual advice are the ones who need serious help.

From the home page:

We are a vibrant community dedicated to discussion of various topics related to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.  We pride ourselves on running the best Orthodox Christian forum on the Internet. This site exists as an Orthodox Forum where people who identify themselves as Orthodox are given a place to discuss things pertinent to the Orthodox Faith.


Asking for spiritual advice is only a very small part of "Discussion of topics related to Eastern Orthodox Christianity".
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« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2013, 04:52:33 AM »

I think the main problem is some people consider this sort of fora / forum a joke while others take it seriously, seeking real spiritual dialogue and guidance on them. The problem is the first types. This is a Christian forum not a secular one. All the dialogues of this forum should be consumed under Christian ethics and politeness. The first types will always ridicule, make fun , disregard the spiritual questions of others and be THE TROLLS of the forum. The first category are here for the wrong motives and should be surveiled more strictly. The first type are probably the ones who need medical help. They probably don't go out in secular communities(online or in real life) doing this and come here to express their repressed emotions. They clearly are in disorder(both psychologically and in behaviour) so discipline is their medicine. Forum discipline and strict moderation can do nothing but help them, and help improve the forum, and help the people who are here for the good reasons. This is the solution by far. The forum off-topic trolls the "disordering" types, need discipline. They are sick and need treatment and need to let the rest who seek real spiritual dialogue in peace and stop disturbing them.

What about those who come with questions but refuse to accept the answers? Where do they fit in all of this?

Those are the true seekers of TRUTH. They fit well in the spiritual description and the spiritual ideal.
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« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2013, 04:58:25 AM »

Those are the true seekers of TRUTH. They fit well in the spiritual description and the spiritual ideal.

Hungry ghosts, I tell you...
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lovetzatziki
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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2013, 05:00:49 AM »

Those are the true seekers of TRUTH. They fit well in the spiritual description and the spiritual ideal.

Hungry ghosts, I tell you...

Perhaps for the types of you who don't believe in spiritual ideals, ethics and morals and spirituality at all. To me you have proven to be of very little faith, and of no good faith in your answers.
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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2013, 05:04:42 AM »

Those are the true seekers of TRUTH. They fit well in the spiritual description and the spiritual ideal.

Hungry ghosts, I tell you...

Perhaps for the types of you who don't believe in spiritual ideals, ethics and morals and spirituality at all.

What is Morality? I can't seem to know lately, essp as I see theology and God in dualistic tint.
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lovetzatziki
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« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2013, 05:10:03 AM »

Those are the true seekers of TRUTH. They fit well in the spiritual description and the spiritual ideal.

Hungry ghosts, I tell you...

Perhaps for the types of you who don't believe in spiritual ideals, ethics and morals and spirituality at all.

What is Morality? I can't seem to know lately, essp as I see theology and God in dualistic tint.

Not being sure is not the same with total disbelief.
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lovetzatziki
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« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2013, 05:34:46 AM »

Fr. George definetly bare verse postings without explanations should pass as rude and be moderated because Scripture is interpretable. People should present their reason and understanding for posting various verses.

I thought we were Christians, not barbarians.

"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. (Colossians 3:11)"

If the plan of this life is secondary than what is the purpose of this life?

Quote from: Luke 17:33
Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 05:35:31 AM by lovetzatziki » Logged
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