Topic: Appalling

[Faith2545]

I just heard this morning that a popular store chain, Macys, here in the US will be open Thanksgiving Day. For the first time in history, they will open from the morning on a national holiday.

Am I the only one disgusted? Thanksgiving is not an Orthodox holiday, however, it is based on Christian ideology. Why does this country evolve itself around money? I have a feeling Christmas Day is next. Oh, and Easter? Is it celebrated in the US anymore? Oh, that's right. They have a bunny parade, send their kids on school holiday to conduct themselves in an even more sinful manner, and, of course, dress themselves in their "Easter Sunday best" to look for colored eggs.

How about the fact that every 'big' movie opens on Christmas DAY!! WHY?? Why can't it wait for the 26th?? Why must it open on one of the holiest days of the Christian calendar??

So this year, people will gain a whole day to begin what is known as 30 days of finding 'the perfect gift' by pushing and shoving and cursing their fellow neighbor in the malls of America, to prepare for the celebration of that little "baby" born in a manger...oh, yes, just THE SAVIOR of the Human race!!!

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

[biro]

I feel bad for the people who have to work that day. They miss time to be home.

[Papist]

I feel bad for the people who have to work that day. They miss time to be home.

oops. Faith Issues.

[Shiny]

And this is why I still relish in Columbus Day.

[xOrthodox4Christx]

I think less and less of the "Christian nation" line that is always politically spun. The United States is a consumerist, materialist nation. Not a Christian one. I think the evidence is clear when Christmas, a holiday of joy and happiness becomes a riot for items and possessions.

Let's be honest. This is not a Christian nation. Founded on Judeo-Christian principles... maybe, but it's not a Christian nation. And I hesitate to claim that it ever was. I think the only good show of Christianity in America was in the Civil Rights and Abolitionist times. The Colonialist, Imperialist and Manifest Destiny eras were not Christian in the least.

[PoorFoolNicholas]

Your politics are spilling into other threads again...

[Luke]

Uh oh.  I wonder if WAL-MART will be next?

[katherine 2001]

I work in a call center that is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.  I almost always work Thanksgiving and it is not unusual for me to work Christmas and almost every other holiday.  I work the graveyard shift (11pm to 7am) and will be working both Christmas Eve night and Christmas night.  For that matter, the hospitals, police and fire departments are staffed 24 hours a day, 365 days a year?  Where is the outrage that they have to work on these days?

[Shiny]

I work in a call center that is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.  I almost always work Thanksgiving and it is not unusual for me to work Christmas and almost every other holiday.  I work the graveyard shift (11pm to 7am) and will be working both Christmas Eve night and Christmas night.  For that matter, the hospitals, police and fire departments are staffed 24 hours a day, 365 days a year?  Where is the outrage that they have to work on these days?

They bring food for u on thanksgiving?

[Faith2545]

Your politics are spilling into other threads again...

Sorry, I didn't think of it as political when I posted initially, but I see your point.

I work in a call center that is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.  I almost always work Thanksgiving and it is not unusual for me to work Christmas and almost every other holiday.  I work the graveyard shift (11pm to 7am) and will be working both Christmas Eve night and Christmas night.  For that matter, the hospitals, police and fire departments are staffed 24 hours a day, 365 days a year?  Where is the outrage that they have to work on these days?

Somehow, I neglected to remember these professions, however, by any means do I compare them to the consumerist, materialistic profession of sales associate.

I just thought the attempt at slowly abolishing the 'holiday' day is evermore apparent and clearer by the year.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

Why does this country evolve itself around money?

It always has and always will. Why the shock?


Selam

[PeterTheAleut]

Your politics are spilling into other threads again...

Sorry, I didn't think of it as political when I posted initially, but I see your point.

I don't think PFN was really talking about you, since nothing you said was political. ISTM he was speaking more to xOrthodoxForChristx.

[PeterTheAleut]

I just heard this morning that a popular store chain, Macys, here in the US will be open Thanksgiving Day. For the first time in history, they will open from the morning on a national holiday.

Am I the only one disgusted? Thanksgiving is not an Orthodox holiday, however, it is based on Christian ideology. Why does this country evolve itself around money? I have a feeling Christmas Day is next. Oh, and Easter? Is it celebrated in the US anymore? Oh, that's right. They have a bunny parade, send their kids on school holiday to conduct themselves in an even more sinful manner, and, of course, dress themselves in their "Easter Sunday best" to look for colored eggs.

How about the fact that every 'big' movie opens on Christmas DAY!! WHY?? Why can't it wait for the 26th?? Why must it open on one of the holiest days of the Christian calendar??

So this year, people will gain a whole day to begin what is known as 30 days of finding 'the perfect gift' by pushing and shoving and cursing their fellow neighbor in the malls of America, to prepare for the celebration of that little "baby" born in a manger...oh, yes, just THE SAVIOR of the Human race!!!

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

Might it not be good for us Christians to be marginalized again? Maybe then we'll realize what the Gospel is all about.

[yeshuaisiam]

Interesting thread....

I've always found it ironic that the busiest shopping day (greediest) of the year is followed by a day when we are supposed to feel thankful...

But then again, aren't we always supposed to be thankful?

Isn't contentedness a form of "thankfulness"?

But now here at least, many stores open Thanksgiving night...  People fight and trample for a SD memory chip and DVD players.  It's a madhouse in many stores....   It's almost like the corporations are serving the evil one to promote such greed after Thankfulness.

[yeshuaisiam]

I just heard this morning that a popular store chain, Macys, here in the US will be open Thanksgiving Day. For the first time in history, they will open from the morning on a national holiday.

Am I the only one disgusted? Thanksgiving is not an Orthodox holiday, however, it is based on Christian ideology. Why does this country evolve itself around money? I have a feeling Christmas Day is next. Oh, and Easter? Is it celebrated in the US anymore? Oh, that's right. They have a bunny parade, send their kids on school holiday to conduct themselves in an even more sinful manner, and, of course, dress themselves in their "Easter Sunday best" to look for colored eggs.

How about the fact that every 'big' movie opens on Christmas DAY!! WHY?? Why can't it wait for the 26th?? Why must it open on one of the holiest days of the Christian calendar??

So this year, people will gain a whole day to begin what is known as 30 days of finding 'the perfect gift' by pushing and shoving and cursing their fellow neighbor in the malls of America, to prepare for the celebration of that little "baby" born in a manger...oh, yes, just THE SAVIOR of the Human race!!!

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

Might it not be good for us Christians to be marginalized again? Maybe then we'll realize what the Gospel is all about.

Great point.

[Shiny]

The OP is a lie. They open at 8pm:

Most Macy's stores will open at 8 p.m. on Thanksgiving
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/10/14/macys-thanksgiving/2978757/

[Mor Ephrem]

The OP is a lie. They open at 8pm:

Don't you think "lie" is a bit over the top? 

[newtoorthodoxy]

Regardless of what hour they open, it's still in bad taste, but I think most (Americans, anyway) won't kick up much of a fuss over this is because this country has always fed commercial interests to one degree or another.  It's only that it's getting so much worse.  It's part of the culture, and so we don't see the wrong in it.  If a thing makes money, an American will justify it.  Christmas has always been totally about presents to everyone I've ever known except those of genuine faith.  By 'genuine,' I'm not calling out hypocrites.  I mean that some people go to church for the sake of going to church.  They give God one hour per week--more if there's a potluck or a pancake breakfast going on.  There've always been people like that in all denominations.  I was raised Catholic, and for most of my childhood, I thought Easter was for coloring eggs and getting baskets of candy.  Thanksgiving was for turkey and for family members to travel from far and wide in order argue at the table and eat their ways into a stupor, and then you watched football.  Christmas was for getting presents.  It's only now, this late in my life, that I want to connect to what church is supposed to be.  

[DeniseDenise]

I will say....8 pm is only 4 hours earlier than they have been opening at for a while...its been midnight on Black Friday for a while now.


Not defending, just saying it's not as large a difference as it would be if it was an additional 14 hour day starting at 8 am.

[lovesupreme]

The OP is a lie. They open at 8pm:

Don't you think "lie" is a bit over the top? 

It's a Portal reference.

[Mor Ephrem]

It's a Portal reference.

I don't know what that means, so I guess I'm not cool. 

[DeniseDenise]

It's a Portal reference.

I don't know what that means, so I guess I'm not cool. 

You transcend cool. 

[IoanC]

It can't be worse than Romania where we are a deeply Orthodox nation (for 2000 years or so).  Yet, ever since the revolution that overthrew the communist regime in 1989, it seems that we lost our roots and values a great deal (well, communism was bad in its own way). We now celebrate Halloween, have Easter bunnies, work on holidays, want gay marriages, replace "Lord, help us!" with "have a good day!", you name it. All I can say is that it's all unnatural and a cultural kitsch.

[newtoorthodoxy]

It can't be worse than Romania where we are a deeply Orthodox nation (for 2000 years or so).  Yet, ever since the revolution that overthrew the communist regime in 1989, it seems that we lost our roots and values a great deal (well, communism was bad in its own way). We now celebrate Halloween, have Easter bunnies, work on holidays, want gay marriages, replace "Lord, help us!" with "have a good day!", you name it. All I can say is that it's all unnatural and a cultural kitsch.

+1

[dzheremi]

One of the weirdest experiences of my life so far was celebrating Thanksgiving with the local Coptic community here for the first time in 2011. They've adopted it as an unofficial holiday, but seem to have not caught on that the rest of the country has moved on from focusing on blessings and thankfulness. So when our Jordanian Catholic guests mentioned that they were excited to experience the shopping mania that inevitably follows ("I brought my running shoes, just in case I need them to get inside the store!"), several of our parishioners objected: "That's not what Thanksgiving is about! Don't do that! It's stupid! You don't give thanks to God with shopping!" I felt bad having to say that's not what Thanksgiving should be about, but that realistically the post-TG spending orgy is probably just as much an American tradition by this point as the meal itself, since Americans have for the most part ceased being thankful for anything that isn't downloadable on the iPhone or whatever. Bizarrely, one of the Coptic men then got on my case: "How am I a better American than you? How can you say such terrible things about this country? I like America more than you! This is the best holiday! You should be thankful, not negative!"

He was right in a way, but sheesh...talk about culture shock in the most unexpected places!

[William]

The OP is a lie. They open at 8pm:

Don't you think "lie" is a bit over the top? 

It's a Portal reference.

haha, no it's not. "X is a lie" is not a meme now just because one video game used it.

[Basil 320]

I feel the 1962 landmark Supreme Court decision prohibiting prayer in public school classrooms initiated the nation's decline in its association with Christianity. Does any public servant tout America's commitment to the Judeo-Christian ethic anymore?  No, they do not. Young people probably are not even familiar with the term. This is due to this whole notion of "separation of church and state," language unfortunately used by the Justices, but erroneous as the Constitution only prohibits establishment of a state church.

Each of the 13 Original Colonies had been established by Christian groups who fled the persecution in England. Gone are the initiatives of President George Washington, adding "So help me God" to the Presidential Oath; gone are President Lincoln's calls for "fast days," could a President today issue a Proclamation for "A Day of Thanksgiving and Praise," as did President Lincoln, for "the Gracious Gifts of the Most High God?"; gone are President Franklin Roosevelt's prayers, not just references to "prayer," but detailed prayers; gone is the initiative of President Harry Truman to venerate (kiss) the Bible upon taking the Oath of Office.  A Pearl Harbor Memorial to the victims of the December 7, 1941 Japanese attack, dedicated during the administration of President George W. Bush (!), include the words of President Roosevelt's address to Congress wherein he sought a Declaration of War against the Empire of Japan, but eliminates his inspired final words that closed his speech, "So help us God."

[hecma925]

All I have to say is that Macy's is pretty slow when jumping on the bandwagon.  Stores have been doing this for years now to be competitive.  As long as there is a market for Thanksgiving Day shopping, stores will be open.

[J Michael]

It can't be worse than Romania where we are a deeply Orthodox nation (for 2000 years or so).  Yet, ever since the revolution that overthrew the communist regime in 1989, it seems that we lost our roots and values a great deal (well, communism was bad in its own way). We now celebrate Halloween, have Easter bunnies, work on holidays, want gay marriages, replace "Lord, help us!" with "have a good day!", you name it. All I can say is that it's all unnatural and a cultural kitsch.

I nominate Romania for elevation ( ) to the status of the 51st State of the United States.

[J Michael]

I just heard this morning that a popular store chain, Macys, here in the US will be open Thanksgiving Day. For the first time in history, they will open from the morning on a national holiday.

Am I the only one disgusted? Thanksgiving is not an Orthodox holiday, however, it is based on Christian ideology. Why does this country evolve itself around money? I have a feeling Christmas Day is next. Oh, and Easter? Is it celebrated in the US anymore? Oh, that's right. They have a bunny parade, send their kids on school holiday to conduct themselves in an even more sinful manner, and, of course, dress themselves in their "Easter Sunday best" to look for colored eggs.

How about the fact that every 'big' movie opens on Christmas DAY!! WHY?? Why can't it wait for the 26th?? Why must it open on one of the holiest days of the Christian calendar??

So this year, people will gain a whole day to begin what is known as 30 days of finding 'the perfect gift' by pushing and shoving and cursing their fellow neighbor in the malls of America, to prepare for the celebration of that little "baby" born in a manger...oh, yes, just THE SAVIOR of the Human race!!!

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

Might it not be good for us Christians to be marginalized again? Maybe then we'll realize what the Gospel is all about.

^ This!

[IoanC]

It can't be worse than Romania where we are a deeply Orthodox nation (for 2000 years or so).  Yet, ever since the revolution that overthrew the communist regime in 1989, it seems that we lost our roots and values a great deal (well, communism was bad in its own way). We now celebrate Halloween, have Easter bunnies, work on holidays, want gay marriages, replace "Lord, help us!" with "have a good day!", you name it. All I can say is that it's all unnatural and a cultural kitsch.

I nominate Romania for elevation ( ) to the status of the 51st State of the United States.

More like the The United States would be surprised to find out how much we have borrowed from their culture through TV and merchandise. They might wonder and say: "Wait a minute! They are more American than us! This is the true American dream! We want to join Romania!"

[J Michael]

It can't be worse than Romania where we are a deeply Orthodox nation (for 2000 years or so).  Yet, ever since the revolution that overthrew the communist regime in 1989, it seems that we lost our roots and values a great deal (well, communism was bad in its own way). We now celebrate Halloween, have Easter bunnies, work on holidays, want gay marriages, replace "Lord, help us!" with "have a good day!", you name it. All I can say is that it's all unnatural and a cultural kitsch.

I nominate Romania for elevation ( ) to the status of the 51st State of the United States.

More like the The United States would be surprised to find out how much we have borrowed from their culture through TV and merchandise. They might wonder and say: "Wait a minute! They are more American than us! This is the true American dream! We want to join Romania!"

I've always wanted to go to Romania.

[Mor Ephrem]

I don't know what that means, so I guess I'm not cool. 

You transcend cool. 

I bow (3x) to your superior knowledge.

[J Michael]

It's a Portal reference.

I don't know what that means, so I guess I'm not cool. 

You transcend cool. 

Please see this http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,54331.0.html

[PeterTheAleut]

I feel the 1962 landmark Supreme Court decision prohibiting prayer in public school classrooms initiated the nation's decline in its association with Christianity. Does any public servant tout America's commitment to the Judeo-Christian ethic anymore?  No, they do not. Young people probably are not even familiar with the term. This is due to this whole notion of "separation of church and state," language unfortunately used by the Justices, but erroneous as the Constitution only prohibits establishment of a state church.

Each of the 13 Original Colonies had been established by Christian groups who fled the persecution in England. Gone are the initiatives of President George Washington, adding "So help me God" to the Presidential Oath; gone are President Lincoln's calls for "fast days," could a President today issue a Proclamation for "A Day of Thanksgiving and Praise," as did President Lincoln, for "the Gracious Gifts of the Most High God?"; gone are President Franklin Roosevelt's prayers, not just references to "prayer," but detailed prayers; gone is the initiative of President Harry Truman to venerate (kiss) the Bible upon taking the Oath of Office.  A Pearl Harbor Memorial to the victims of the December 7, 1941 Japanese attack, dedicated during the administration of President George W. Bush (!), include the words of President Roosevelt's address to Congress wherein he sought a Declaration of War against the Empire of Japan, but eliminates his inspired final words that closed his speech, "So help us God."

Do we really want to go back to the "good ol' days" when we had prayer in the public schools? Or is it not better for us to seek how we can most effectively preach the Gospel to the culture in which we find ourselves today?

[podkarpatska]

I feel the 1962 landmark Supreme Court decision prohibiting prayer in public school classrooms initiated the nation's decline in its association with Christianity. Does any public servant tout America's commitment to the Judeo-Christian ethic anymore?  No, they do not. Young people probably are not even familiar with the term. This is due to this whole notion of "separation of church and state," language unfortunately used by the Justices, but erroneous as the Constitution only prohibits establishment of a state church.

Each of the 13 Original Colonies had been established by Christian groups who fled the persecution in England. Gone are the initiatives of President George Washington, adding "So help me God" to the Presidential Oath; gone are President Lincoln's calls for "fast days," could a President today issue a Proclamation for "A Day of Thanksgiving and Praise," as did President Lincoln, for "the Gracious Gifts of the Most High God?"; gone are President Franklin Roosevelt's prayers, not just references to "prayer," but detailed prayers; gone is the initiative of President Harry Truman to venerate (kiss) the Bible upon taking the Oath of Office.  A Pearl Harbor Memorial to the victims of the December 7, 1941 Japanese attack, dedicated during the administration of President George W. Bush (!), include the words of President Roosevelt's address to Congress wherein he sought a Declaration of War against the Empire of Japan, but eliminates his inspired final words that closed his speech, "So help us God."

Do we really want to go back to the "good ol' days" when we had prayer in the public schools? Or is it not better for us to seek how we can most effectively preach the Gospel to the culture in which we find ourselves today?

I agree with Peter. I remember mumbling the 'official' state sponsored prayer in New York State in the early 1960's in elementary school, even as a child I felt uncomfortable with it. We were all homogeonous then in the old 'hood', either Slavic Orthodox, Greek or Roman Catholics. I can only imagine what sort of mealy mouthed platitudes would be offered today were prayer to be again legal. In some states, there would be no doubt that a heterodox,Evangelically oriented and thoroughly unacceptable prayer to Orthodox or Roman Catholics would be forced upon children.

[primuspilus]

I couldn't care less about prayer in schools. It was, IMHO just an exercise in participating in the unspoken pseudo-Christian state religion that was pushed around in the US for quite some time.

PP

[Faith2545]

I believe I heard it yesterday morning on the Today Show that the Macys in Manhattan will be open on Th/ging Day and nearby areas will open after 5pm.
This is what I heard. I didn't intend to sound misleading. In any case, what I meant to imply is that sooner than later, there will not be any 'holiday' to celebrate. As if the thirty days prior to Christmas (or in this case 28 days, being that Thks/ing falls later than usual)  isn't enough?? Or that stores are open, depending in your area 18 - 24 hrs a day? This is what disgusted me. But, whatever. I will go to church/pray/fast and celebrate the right way as I believe. Thank God I know the truth

[J Michael]

I couldn't care less about prayer in schools. It was, IMHO just an exercise in participating in the unspoken pseudo-Christian state religion that was pushed around in the US for quite some time.

PP

I know this thread isn't about prayer in schools, but, since we've digressed to that the only things I see that are "wrong" about it are: a) to forbid someone from praying in their public school, and b) to require anyone to pray any particular prayer or to pray at all in their public school.

[Faith2545]

I couldn't care less about prayer in schools. It was, IMHO just an exercise in participating in the unspoken pseudo-Christian state religion that was pushed around in the US for quite some time.

PP

I know this thread isn't about prayer in schools, but, since we've digressed to that the only things I see that are "wrong" about it are: a) to forbid someone from praying in their public school, and b) to require anyone to pray any particular prayer or to pray at all in their public school.

Not to bring this topic totally off-topic, however, to chime in with an opinion I'll add that I don't think I would encourage prayer in public schools in multi-ethnic countries, like America, for instance. Why? Because, firstly, it would need to be 'politically correct' in the sense that we are praying to 'a God' but not the same God, thereby making the prayer very general. That, for me, defeats the purpose. Luckily, growing up in Greece, we recited the Lord's Prayer every morning as soon as the bell signified the day's beginning. It showed union to me, a sense of spiritual bonding, if you will. This cannot be done in a multi-ethnic/multi-religious setting. Then we also have to respect the right of parents who refuse to raise their children in faith, as huge a mistake that is. So for this reason, prayer should be left out of public school.

[hecma925]

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

Who is "they"?  And how will "they" accomplish forcing holidays off a calendar?

[J Michael]

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

Who is "they"?  And how will "they" accomplish forcing holidays off a calendar?

"They" is, well, you know...."them".

[hecma925]

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

Who is "they"?  And how will "they" accomplish forcing holidays off a calendar?

"They" is, well, you know...."them".

Yes.  "They" always say things and "they" always do these studies.

[Punch]

Where was the outrage when your Church moved this Holy Day to the greedy materialistic day selebrated by the heretics?

How about the fact that every 'big' movie opens on Christmas DAY!! WHY?? Why can't it wait for the 26th?? Why must it open on one of the holiest days of the Christian calendar??

So this year, people will gain a whole day to begin what is known as 30 days of finding 'the perfect gift' by pushing and shoving and cursing their fellow neighbor in the malls of America, to prepare for the celebration of that little "baby" born in a manger...oh, yes, just THE SAVIOR of the Human race!!!

Just despicable!! Disgusting!  They will force our holidays off our calendar, making them just 'another day." Never in my book!!!

[Ebor]

I feel the 1962 landmark Supreme Court decision prohibiting prayer in public school classrooms initiated the nation's decline in its association with Christianity. Does any public servant tout America's commitment to the Judeo-Christian ethic anymore?  No, they do not. Young people probably are not even familiar with the term. This is due to this whole notion of "separation of church and state," language unfortunately used by the Justices, but erroneous as the Constitution only prohibits establishment of a state church.

If it is prayer lead/spoken by a teacher or other adult who works at the school, not all students would likely be part of that person's particular faith/Church in many places.  Do you mean that only Christian pray should be allowed?  What about a Jewish prayer?  What if the teacher is a pious Buddhist or Hindu or Muslim, would you be at ease with them leading a prayer from their faith?  

The point, as I understand it, is that a student may pray if she/he wishes (and one joke is that this happens for tests) but that it may not be conducted by any of the adults in the class room situation.
 

Each of the 13 Original Colonies had been established by Christian groups who fled the persecution in England.

I'm sorry, but this is not true.  Virginia, for example, was founded by the London Company for the purposes of resources, wealth and colonization among other things.  The settlers were not trying to escape any kind of persecution religious or otherwise.

Here is a link to the text of the charter granted by King James I:  http://www.bartleby.com/43/5.html
The London Company at Wikipedia for a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Company

The Carolinas were established by Virginians under royal permission as was Georgia.  The latter colony was intended to be both a place for debtors and as a barrier to Spanish expansion from the south.  

Some colonies had a religious reason but not all by any means.

Ebor