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Author Topic: Death of His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia  (Read 2209 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 14, 2013, 10:06:39 PM »

Why would you say that His Imperial Majesty is dead ?
Is there any undeniable proof to affirm that ?
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 10:44:41 PM »

From Wikipedia:

"The Soviet-backed Derg fell in 1991. In 1992, the emperor's bones were found under a concrete slab on the palace grounds;[134] some reports suggest that his remains were discovered beneath a latrine.[136] For almost a decade thereafter, as Ethiopian courts attempted to sort out the circumstances of his death, his coffin rested in Bhata Church, near his great uncle Menelik II's imperial resting place.[137] On 5 November 2000, Haile Selassie was given an imperial-style funeral by the Ethiopian Orthodox church. The post-communist government refused calls to declare the ceremony an official imperial funeral.[137]

"Although such prominent Rastafarian figures as Rita Marley and others participated in the grand funeral, most Rastafari rejected the event and refused to accept that the bones were the remains of Haile Selassie. There remains some debate within the Rastafari movement as to whether Haile Selassie actually died in 1975.[138]"

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 10:47:57 PM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

He's the lion of the tribe of Judah, and is given extremely long life etc etc jah jah.
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 05:24:20 AM »

That celebrity worship really amazes me.
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 08:13:43 AM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

He's the lion of the tribe of Judah, and is given extremely long life etc etc jah jah.

He would still have a long way to go.  Methuselah was much older.  Rastas....geez. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 08:22:43 AM »

If he's still alive, he's certainly welcome to show himself, the Derg being gone and all.
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 09:01:56 AM »

dbop
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 10:14:52 AM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

Quote
He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.

Anyways, he was just a man, so I dont understand how folks can say he'd have a hyper-extended lifespan.

PP
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 10:17:47 AM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

Quote
He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.

Anyways, he was just a man, so I dont understand how folks can say he'd have a hyper-extended lifespan.

PP

Well, many rastafarians think he was/is divine. I think many ethiopian orthodox christians view him as a saint or saintly person.
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 10:20:09 AM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.


That was one of his titles as Emperor, being of the Solomonid Dynasty.

Quote
His Imperial Majesty Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Emperor of Ethiopia.
- Wikipedia
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 10:20:52 AM »

Yes, he's dead and buried.  From an old article:  
Quote
Ethiopia's last emperor, Haile Selassie, has finally been laid to rest in Addis Ababa's Trinity Cathedral, more than 25 years after his mysterious death.

But this just made me  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes:
Quote
While most Rastafarians have condemned the funeral, a few hundred have arrived in Addis Ababa for the burial, insisting they are here to "merely observe, rather than to participate."

Ras Lumumba, a Sudanese Rastafarian who came to settle in Ethiopia three years ago, says the Emperor is their Messiah or Jah.

"Haile Selassie is King of Kings, Lord of Lords, and the conquering lion of the Tribe of Judah. He is everything to us Rastafarians and we will never accept that he is dead."


Rastafarianism:  a pseudo-religion that happened to pick the man that was then currently the emperor of Ethiopia as their deity.  Sure, whatever.

EDIT:  source:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1007736.stm
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 10:32:04 AM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

Quote
He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.

Anyways, he was just a man, so I dont understand how folks can say he'd have a hyper-extended lifespan.

PP

Well, many rastafarians think he was/is divine. I think many ethiopian orthodox christians view him as a saint or saintly person.
I think he could have been a saintly person. From what I read of him, he seemed a godly person.

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.


That was one of his titles as Emperor, being of the Solomonid Dynasty.

Quote
His Imperial Majesty Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Emperor of Ethiopia.
- Wikipedia
Ah. I see. Still, I cringe.

Yes, he's dead and buried.  From an old article: 
Quote
Ethiopia's last emperor, Haile Selassie, has finally been laid to rest in Addis Ababa's Trinity Cathedral, more than 25 years after his mysterious death.

But this just made me  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes:
Quote
While most Rastafarians have condemned the funeral, a few hundred have arrived in Addis Ababa for the burial, insisting they are here to "merely observe, rather than to participate."

Ras Lumumba, a Sudanese Rastafarian who came to settle in Ethiopia three years ago, says the Emperor is their Messiah or Jah.

"Haile Selassie is King of Kings, Lord of Lords, and the conquering lion of the Tribe of Judah. He is everything to us Rastafarians and we will never accept that he is dead."


Rastafarianism:  a pseudo-religion that happened to pick the man that was then currently the emperor of Ethiopia as their deity.  Sure, whatever.

EDIT:  source:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1007736.stm
Just another Orthodox heresy?

PP
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 10:35:12 AM »

It's only a heresy if a lot of Rastas join the Church and try to change doctrine that the emperor is God.
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2013, 10:41:48 AM »

Just another Orthodox heresy?

PP

Rastafarians weren't in the Church to begin with so I don't think it could be classified as an "Orthodox" heresy. Just plain heresy should suffice.
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 10:49:58 AM »

Just another Orthodox heresy?

PP

Rastafarians weren't in the Church to begin with so I don't think it could be classified as an "Orthodox" heresy. Just plain heresy should suffice.

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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 10:55:32 AM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

Quote
He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.

Anyways, he was just a man, so I dont understand how folks can say he'd have a hyper-extended lifespan.

PP

Well, many rastafarians think he was/is divine. I think many ethiopian orthodox christians view him as a saint or saintly person.

Many? You mean outside of internet and/or Rasta converts to Orthodoxy?
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2013, 11:13:20 AM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

Quote
He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.

Anyways, he was just a man, so I dont understand how folks can say he'd have a hyper-extended lifespan.

PP

Well, many rastafarians think he was/is divine. I think many ethiopian orthodox christians view him as a saint or saintly person.

Many? You mean outside of internet and/or Rasta converts to Orthodoxy?

Well, many is a very broad term, but I have never encountered anybody who didn't like him.
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2013, 11:19:09 AM »

I wonder if any Tewahedo Christians could comment on such views.
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2013, 11:50:15 AM »

I thought all true blue Rastas believed in the divinity in HIM. That was the whole point.

PP
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 12:19:28 PM »

I thought all true blue Rastas believed in the divinity in HIM. That was the whole point.

PP

There were EOTC missions to the Caribbean after HIM's visit and IIRC some Rastafari did convert to Orthodoxy while still identifying with the culture.

Gebre Menfes Kidus would definitely know more about it then I do.
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2013, 12:20:47 PM »

A year ago or more some guy claiming to be Ethiopian Orthodox and also Rasta came on here trying to convince everyone that Haile Selassie was divine. He disappeared pretty quickly.
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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2013, 01:03:09 PM »

A year ago or more some guy claiming to be Ethiopian Orthodox and also Rasta came on here trying to convince everyone that Haile Selassie was divine. He disappeared pretty quickly.
Yeah, I think I remember that guy. He got hammered down pretty quick.

PP
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2013, 01:08:16 PM »

Oh the times of the HIM debates with Habte, Gebre, and Hiwot!

And people wish this board to become more polite?

I shudder a life having never witnessed such threads!
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 01:10:01 PM »

Oh the times of the HIM debates with Habte, Gebre, and Hiwot!

And people wish this board to become more polite?

I shudder a life having never witnessed such threads!


PP
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 01:12:19 PM »

Oh the times of the HIM debates with Habte, Gebre, and Hiwot!

And people wish this board to become more polite?

I shudder a life having never witnessed such threads!

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,45689.0.html
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2013, 01:26:55 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Meant to be a PM.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2013, 01:33:34 PM »

Welcome back, Habte! Smiley

Edit: Aw man, I thought you had started posting again.
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2013, 07:31:49 PM »

Oh the times of the HIM debates with Habte, Gebre, and Hiwot!

And people wish this board to become more polite?

I shudder a life having never witnessed such threads!

 Grin
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« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2013, 08:32:55 PM »

Re-reading that old thread makes me miss Hiwot. Cry
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« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2013, 08:52:57 PM »

Oh the times of the HIM debates with Habte, Gebre, and Hiwot!

And people wish this board to become more polite?

I shudder a life having never witnessed such threads!

+1

Re-reading that old thread makes me miss Hiwot. Cry

+1. She was also stellar in the breastfeeding thread.
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« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2013, 08:53:47 PM »

Re-reading that old thread makes me miss Hiwot. Cry

Me too.  Cry
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« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2013, 10:57:14 PM »

Why would you say that His Imperial Majesty is dead ?
Is there any undeniable proof to affirm that ?


Well, I went to his funeral and he never once peeked out of the coffin to see what was going on, so I can only assume he remains dead. (God grant him rest!)

Rita Marley was also there...
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« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2013, 10:58:33 PM »

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

Quote
He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.

Anyways, he was just a man, so I dont understand how folks can say he'd have a hyper-extended lifespan.

PP

Well, many rastafarians think he was/is divine. I think many ethiopian orthodox christians view him as a saint or saintly person.
I think he could have been a saintly person. From what I read of him, he seemed a godly person.

The Emperor would be 121 years old were he alive today. What is anyone's proof that he is alive?

He's the lion of the tribe of Judah
I always cringe when I see this ascribed to the Emperor.


That was one of his titles as Emperor, being of the Solomonid Dynasty.

Quote
His Imperial Majesty Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Emperor of Ethiopia.
- Wikipedia
Ah. I see. Still, I cringe.

Yes, he's dead and buried.  From an old article: 
Quote
Ethiopia's last emperor, Haile Selassie, has finally been laid to rest in Addis Ababa's Trinity Cathedral, more than 25 years after his mysterious death.

But this just made me  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes:
Quote
While most Rastafarians have condemned the funeral, a few hundred have arrived in Addis Ababa for the burial, insisting they are here to "merely observe, rather than to participate."

Ras Lumumba, a Sudanese Rastafarian who came to settle in Ethiopia three years ago, says the Emperor is their Messiah or Jah.

"Haile Selassie is King of Kings, Lord of Lords, and the conquering lion of the Tribe of Judah. He is everything to us Rastafarians and we will never accept that he is dead."


Rastafarianism:  a pseudo-religion that happened to pick the man that was then currently the emperor of Ethiopia as their deity.  Sure, whatever.

EDIT:  source:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1007736.stm
Just another Orthodox heresy?

PP

I was told that the Gi'iz title of His Majesty translates more accurately as 'the Lion of the Tribe of Judah has conquered' (a reference to Christ and Orthodoxy), but the official translation used during the imperial years was as it's been quoted and I'm not a Gi'iz scholar, so I really don't know.
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« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2013, 01:54:29 AM »

I wonder if any Tewahedo Christians could comment on such views.

You mean the ones that didn't use to be Rastas?

Re-reading that old thread makes me miss Hiwot. Cry

Me too.  Cry

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« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2013, 06:33:34 AM »

You mean the ones that didn't use to be Rastas?


That could help, too.
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2013, 07:37:55 PM »

I wrote this on my fb about a week ago for my rastafarian friends, so I take the occasion to post it here too:

Rastas claim that His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I didn't pass thru death, i.e. the separation of body and soul-spirit. Was his body transformed and Was he transfigured, and Where exactly he went to, whether he "ascended" or he's somewhere in Ethiopia or on this earth hiding from the public, is unclear to them. They never gathered in council for instance to discuss these kinds of things and so it's to each and everyone of them to make an idea for him/herself.

For our rastafarian friends, let's analyse some points which tend to indicate that he indeed was a mortal and died, like everybody at some point of time dies.

1. First, let that be clear that from his birth until.. his death? (or, you choose the scenario you want), he didn't have some sort of supernatural structure different from you and I.

One day he almost died drowned, stating that his soul had barely been prevented from getting separated from his body when they took him out of the water. Then some time after, after recovering, he went to a church to thank God for sparing his life that day. Meaning logically that he believed he 'could' have died.

Another time he fell gravely ill, caught in an epidemy, almost to the point of death also.

And he fractured a knee in a car accident while he was in exile.

And again in exile he got sick and was forced to send a representative in his place to the league of nations.

Finally during the time of his captivity in his last days he underwent a surgery operation at the hospital because of a prostate problem. His daughter Princess Tenagnework was allowed (at the insistance of Dr Asrat Woldeyes) to go to the hospital with him for the surgery and see him afterwards during his recovery. Later after he came back from the hospital Princess Tenegnework and her eldest daughter would again be allowed to spend one or two nights with H.I.M. at the place he was held captive.

You can verify the first two facts in his autobiography Vol 1, the two others in Vol 2; as to the last you have to do some research.

The things stated above are clear signs of someone being in a mortal structure.

2. There is the famous, well-known answer, in 1967 in Canada aboard the royal train to CBC journalist Bill McNeil, where H.I.M. told the interviewer he met certain rastas and told them clearly that he's a man, that he's mortal, and that he would be replaced by the oncoming generation, and that they should never make the mistake of assuming or pretending that the human being is emanated from a Deity.

What does I am mortal and I will be replaced by the oncoming generation mean, if not I'm gonna die and let the place for that other generation? Until they also die and let the place for another generation..etc etc

They all make me laugh with all their cerebral gymnastic around the response, looking for little ways here and there to escape reality. Illusions illusions..

Then there are those who claim there must be a sabotage, or a twist somewhere in the english translation >> taking the road of conspiracy theory. But those people should ask themselves these questions: Why did he accept to give that interview in the first place, giving them the occasion to misuse some of his words like that, which would then cause the fall of so many people (from the rastafarian perspective)? Indeed, many many have been discouraged from worshipping H.I.M. because of that answer to Bill McNeil. What about his gift of prescience and clairvoyance that he would have had at a very high degree?

If God incarnate (they say he is) accepts to give an interview which was to be listened to in various parts of the world, it would be logical to think that IT WAS TO BE HEARD, no?

3. A 'normal' reading of the following quotes would naturally include His Imperial Majesty in the "us"

"Man is mortal; each one of us here will, one day, face his Maker and answer for his actions. Those of us whose the grave responsability of governing have been given bear a heavy burden before the people and before Almighty God for the proper discharge of our duties."

H.I.M.
Apr 14, 1961
Public officials called to responsabilities
Selected Speeches pg 416

"Now, however, it has become your fate to obey the order of the great and merciful Lord, a lot that befalls each and everyone of us in our turn. As it were, after you had accomplished what was within your bounds, you have slept, but although you depart from us physically, your works and your name will always remain among us."

H.I.M.
Sept 19, 1938
Death of Blatengeta Heruye in the United Kingdom
Selected Speeches pg 645

To emphasize my point:

"Here is our opportunity and our challenge. If the nuclear powers are prepared to declare a truce, let us seize the moment to strenghten the institutions and procedures which will serve as the means for the pacific settlement of disputes among men."

H.I.M.
Oct 6, 1963.
To the U.N.
About the atmospheric nuclear ban treaty
Important Utterances pg 464

When he says "our" and "let us," Is he excluded from the statement? Is he not saying to all those people present at the U.N. "let's do something together, me and my government and you and yours"

"But each one of us here knows that what has been accomplished is not enough. The United Nations judgments have been and continue to be subject to frustration, as individual member states have ignored its pronouncements and disregarded its recommendations."

H.I.M.
Oct 6, 1963
To the U.N.
Important Utterances pg 462

Again when he says "us," "each one of us here knows," Is he excluded? Or he's included?

"He shall long be remembered by all of us,"

H.I.M.
July 23, 1970
Dedicating the John F. Kennedy Library
Important Utterances pg 231

"all of us" ?

Ok, so on which basis then would he be excluded from these:

"Man is mortal; each one of us here will, one day, face his Maker and answer for his actions. Those of us whose the grave responsability of governing have been given bear a heavy burden before the people and before Almighty God for the proper discharge of our duties."

"Now, however, it has become your fate to obey the order of the great and merciful Lord, a lot that befalls each and everyone of us in our turn."

A 5years old child would understand. But apparently some can't.

4. What about the testimony of Eshetu, His Imperial Majesty's servant, which he gave after the fall of Mengistu's regime? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V1w73D1UJM (See at 4:06-6:21)

Only two options proposed:

- He speaks the truth
- He doesn't speak the truth

I don't know. You see for yourself.

"It is a truism that man is mortal" (H.I.M. Nov 8, 1961); "Mortality is man's inevitable course" (H.I.M. May 18, 1957); "No matter how intelligent and brave, no one on earth can escape death" (H.I.M. Nov 2, 1930)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 07:59:03 PM by Arnaud » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2013, 07:36:06 AM »

The simpler question is, how can a man who is supposedly God's second coming get overthrown by a military coup?
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« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2013, 09:33:48 AM »

The simpler question is, how can a man who is supposedly God's second coming get overthrown by a military coup?
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« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2013, 09:34:14 AM »

The simpler question is, how can a man who is supposedly God's second coming get overthrown by a military coup?

There is another turtle.
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« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2013, 09:27:42 PM »

The simpler question is, how can a man who is supposedly God's second coming get overthrown by a military coup?

That question is not a valid argument. The Muslims ask the same question about Christ. How can God be crucified?
(Please note that I'm not arguing for the divinity of H.I.M., just pointing out the weakness of this particular line of reasoning.)


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« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 09:28:06 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2013, 10:21:41 PM »

The simpler question is, how can a man who is supposedly God's second coming get overthrown by a military coup?

That question is not a valid argument. The Muslims ask the same question about Christ. How can God be crucified?

Not the same at all. The Second Coming of Christ is supposed to be in glory and he is supposed to reign forever.
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« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2013, 10:28:05 PM »

The simpler question is, how can a man who is supposedly God's second coming get overthrown by a military coup?

That question is not a valid argument. The Muslims ask the same question about Christ. How can God be crucified?

Not the same at all. The Second Coming of Christ is supposed to be in glory and he is supposed to reign forever.

Isn't that what the Jews expected his initial arrival would be?
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