Author Topic: The mass of Paul VI  (Read 10306 times)

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Offline mike

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #270 on: November 19, 2013, 10:13:36 AM »
Bortnyansky and Korsakoff.

 ???  Bortniansky's Cherubimic Hymn, No. 7, I think, is quite heavenly.

If someone likes operas...

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #271 on: November 19, 2013, 11:07:44 AM »
Gotta disagree with MK on Dimitry Bortiansky.

To any kid growing up in from 1930's to the 1980's America in a "Russian", Ukrainian, Orthodox or Greek Catholic church-going family, just play a recording of "Kol Slaven" and good memories rush in...

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Q7UjsZ8yPiI


Same goes for Cherubic #7- the every Sunday staple of many a small choir...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDCwdreKpXI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGDCwdreKpXI
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:14:58 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline Schultz

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #272 on: November 19, 2013, 11:23:33 AM »
Mor Ephrem, could you tell what you find so beautiful in the Traditional Roman Liturgy? I love the whole "propers" thing in the Roman liturgy, but its action seem to me more like a spectacle than a liturgy and it's a great pity. For me it lacks also an obligatory choir, as in EO, giving the People a strong voice. And comparing with EO it seems to have very short Liturgy of the Catechumens. But I'm open to be convinced (for the "propers" sake ;) ).
Before the advent of the "Dialogue Mass" in the 50s, the choir did all the responses and everything, just like in the Byzantine Rite. However, largely as a result of the negotiations between Rome and the SSPX, the reformed Mass of 1962 has become the accepted version of the Traditional Mass.

That reminds me of something funny that happened to me the first time I went to one of the Tridentine Masses here in Southern California - about 10 years ago.

I happily sang along with all the Gregorian Chant responses throughout the Mass and was really enjoying myself. But after the Mass, this sour-looking lady who was apparently in charge of the choir came over and gave me a big lecture about how only the choir is supposed to sing the responses - the congregation is supposed to remain completely silent!

Well, I thought then - and still think now - that she was wrong. (And reading Thomas Day's classic "Why Catholics Can't Sing" only confirmed me in my righteousness.  ;D ) But I bided my time and got my revenge - I'm now married to the head cantor at my Eastern Catholic parish, where we go out of our way to encourage everyone in the congregation to join in!  8)

I recall a Tridentine Mass I went to some years ago in Baltimore.  There was this family that came all the way down from York that looked like they were loads of fun.  I have never seen a more dour looking family.  At any rate, I usually sat four or five pews behind them.  One Sunday, a young man sat in between us and sang along with the choir with great reverence and, honestly, with a rather nice tenor.  About halfway through the Creed, the father turned around and asked him to please be quiet, his family was trying to pray.

Keep in mind, this guy was harmonizing beautifully with the choir.

He moved back a few pews to sit next to me and asked if I would be offended if he sang along.  I told him no and joined in when I could; it was nice to have a single voice to follow along with in my own vocal range.

For our participation, I received dirty looks from that family (and only that family) for the rest of my tenure there.

Then I re-discovered the Ruthenian Catholic church and fell in love with prostopinije.
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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #273 on: November 19, 2013, 01:21:11 PM »
When my brother lived in pittsburgh when I was catholic we'd go to the tlm. People sang responses here and there. I happened to be in Baltimore for something years ago went to the tlm. No one sang anything except for the choir. It felt odd.

Offline Alpo

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #274 on: November 19, 2013, 01:23:47 PM »
Gotta disagree with MK on Dimitry Bortiansky.

To any kid growing up in from 1930's to the 1980's America in a "Russian", Ukrainian, Orthodox or Greek Catholic church-going family, just play a recording of "Kol Slaven" and good memories rush in...

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Q7UjsZ8yPiI


Same goes for Cherubic #7- the every Sunday staple of many a small choir...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDCwdreKpXI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGDCwdreKpXI

Add Finns to that list. I've heard that Cherubic hymn occasionally in our churches.

Offline brastaseptim

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #275 on: November 19, 2013, 01:24:38 PM »
Latin parish I attend, nobody sings anything but the choir- which is composed of myself, the cantor, and sometimes his wife. Sometimes just me, the backup cantor. I've sung the whole Mass with no one else joining in for even one note before. And I can tell, because my voice isn't overpowering enough to drown out the other's voices- I'm a light tenor, not a dang operatic baritone. (Oh, I'd never make it in a Russian choir...)
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #276 on: November 19, 2013, 01:56:10 PM »
Gotta disagree with MK on Dimitry Bortiansky.

To any kid growing up in from 1930's to the 1980's America in a "Russian", Ukrainian, Orthodox or Greek Catholic church-going family, just play a recording of "Kol Slaven" and good memories rush in...

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Q7UjsZ8yPiI


Same goes for Cherubic #7- the every Sunday staple of many a small choir...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDCwdreKpXI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGDCwdreKpXI



The Kol Slaven link earlier was android dedicated. Here is the desktop version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7UjsZ8yPiI

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #277 on: November 19, 2013, 04:56:33 PM »
Ah klo slaven..

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #278 on: December 19, 2013, 03:31:12 PM »
I guess there are no theatres in Vienna?

Solidarity, RC's...this is nuts. 
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Offline Romaios

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #279 on: December 19, 2013, 03:42:54 PM »

Offline griego catolico

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #280 on: December 30, 2013, 08:00:27 PM »
I would also appreciate if you could maybe give some examples of what you would consider a "proper" mass.

How about this?:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ish5zre-SRA

A Mass in the Ordinary Form (Mass of Paul VI) celebrated as if it were the Extraordinary Form (Mass of Blessed John XXIII).
Technically, the priest celebrant is not following all the rubrics (e.g., the priest should be at the chair for the beginning of Mass), but it is quite reverent and demonstrates what "could have been" if there was more of a  "hermeneutic of continuity".


Offline Alpo

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #281 on: January 02, 2014, 02:36:53 PM »
Could have been but never will be. The hermeneutics of continuity died at the moment when pope Benedict XVI proclaimed his retirement.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #282 on: March 11, 2014, 03:39:46 PM »
Friends,

This is how you do Liturgy.  This is easily the equal, if not the superior, of Byzantine rite hierarchical Liturgy.  And if you disagree, see my sig. 
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #283 on: March 11, 2014, 07:14:46 PM »
Friends,

This is how you do Liturgy.  This is easily the equal, if not the superior, of Byzantine rite hierarchical Liturgy.  And if you disagree, see my sig. 

Better than the bland Novus Ordo. How much were instruments played during the High Mass? The instruments drowned out all of the singing when I attended a NO Mass.
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Offline ErmyCath

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Re: The mass of Paul VI
« Reply #284 on: March 12, 2014, 11:53:20 AM »
I would also appreciate if you could maybe give some examples of what you would consider a "proper" mass.

How about this?:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ish5zre-SRA

A Mass in the Ordinary Form (Mass of Paul VI) celebrated as if it were the Extraordinary Form (Mass of Blessed John XXIII).
Technically, the priest celebrant is not following all the rubrics (e.g., the priest should be at the chair for the beginning of Mass), but it is quite reverent and demonstrates what "could have been" if there was more of a  "hermeneutic of continuity".



The parish in the video is my former parish. (I think I'm in that video as a server). 
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