Author Topic: Good news: No Allah for Christians!  (Read 64932 times)

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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #360 on: October 31, 2013, 06:54:36 PM »
Allah predates Islam so the word isn't exclusive to Islam. And yes, Allah is Arabic for God. I don't see how anyone could deny that.

Not true. Neither as a pre-Islamic term nor now does Allah mean God. You are confusing ilah with Allah. These are different.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #361 on: October 31, 2013, 06:56:29 PM »
I'll make it easy for you:


3. Why does it matter what God is called in other languages?


If that does not matter, am I free to go to an Arabic-speaking Orthodox church and invoke Allat instead of Allah?
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #362 on: October 31, 2013, 06:57:02 PM »
Allah predates Islam so the word isn't exclusive to Islam. And yes, Allah is Arabic for God. I don't see how anyone could deny that.

Not true. Neither as a pre-Islamic term nor now does Allah mean God. You are confusing ilah with Allah. These are different.

So this book is plain wrong?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 06:57:44 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline mike

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #363 on: October 31, 2013, 06:57:51 PM »
I'll make it easy for you:


3. Why does it matter what God is called in other languages?


If that does not matter, am I free to go to an Arabic-speaking Orthodox church and invoke Allat instead of Allah?

Actually you are not allowed to introduce new devotions without your bishop's approval.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #364 on: October 31, 2013, 06:58:32 PM »
I'll make it easy for you:


3. Why does it matter what God is called in other languages?


If that does not matter, am I free to go to an Arabic-speaking Orthodox church and invoke Allat instead of Allah?

Please adress my other questions as well or we'll keep running around in circles. You didn't really adress my third question either.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:00:27 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #365 on: October 31, 2013, 06:59:01 PM »

Actually you are not allowed to introduce new devotions without your bishop's approval.

Why not if it does not matter how we address God in church?  ::)
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #366 on: October 31, 2013, 07:00:52 PM »

Please adress my other questions as well or we'll keep running around in circles.

I'm choosing to address THIS question first.  ;)
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #367 on: October 31, 2013, 07:01:25 PM »

Please adress my other questions as well or we'll keep running around in circles.

I'm choosing to address THIS question first.  ;)

So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #368 on: October 31, 2013, 07:02:04 PM »
Why not if it does not matter how we address God in church?  ::)

It does matter how we address God in church, but for centuries the Church has been more tolerant than you.  And now we're supposed to agree with you and not with the Church?  You'll need better arguments than those you put forth in order to begin to try to convince anyone.  

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #369 on: October 31, 2013, 07:03:02 PM »

So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #370 on: October 31, 2013, 07:03:09 PM »
4. Are people who use another word for God than God Christian?

Deep down we always knew Hungarians were crypto-pagans - they call the Lord God Isten!  ::)

1. Arany Atya(Golden Father) or Tengri or Isten (Ősten, Őstengri = "Old God").

He was the main god. The Hungarian, Turkic and other Asian nomad paganism was a henotheist religion. It worshiped one main god an other minor gods.

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #371 on: October 31, 2013, 07:03:30 PM »

Actually you are not allowed to introduce new devotions without your bishop's approval.

Why not if it does not matter how we address God in church?  ::)

If it lounges the service, it matter. I recall when my friends wanted to have marriage in Polish. They wrote a petition to the bishop.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #372 on: October 31, 2013, 07:03:44 PM »
Why not if it does not matter how we address God in church?  ::)

It does matter how we address God in church, but for centuries the Church has been more tolerant than you.  And now we're supposed to agree with you and not with the Church?  You'll need better arguments than those you put forth in order to begin to try to convince anyone.  

True, but my question was more specific. "Why does it matter what God is called in other languages?"

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #373 on: October 31, 2013, 07:04:27 PM »
If it lounges the service, it matter. I recall when my friends wanted to have marriage in Polish. They wrote a petition to the bishop.

Does the Polish Church not use Polish in the liturgy?

Offline mike

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #374 on: October 31, 2013, 07:05:05 PM »

Does the Polish Church not use Polish in the liturgy?

3% or someting.


So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?

During services? No. Unless your bishop allowed.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #375 on: October 31, 2013, 07:07:12 PM »

So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?

2 Chronicles 7:1 "And the Allat of Allah (or Yahu's Anat, if you prefer) filled the temple".

Ezekiel 10:4 "Then the Allat of Allah (Yahu's Anat) rose from above the cherubim and moved to the threshold of the temple. The cloud filled the temple, and the court was full of the radiance of the Allat of Allah" (Yahu's Anat).

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #376 on: October 31, 2013, 07:18:15 PM »

So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?

2 Chronicles 7:1 "And the Allat of Allah (or Yahu's Anat, if you prefer) filled the temple".

Ezekiel 10:4 "Then the Allat of Allah (Yahu's Anat) rose from above the cherubim and moved to the threshold of the temple. The cloud filled the temple, and the court was full of the radiance of the Allat of Allah" (Yahu's Anat).


I have better perversion techniques.  ::)

You must not give any of your children as an offering to Allah, so that you do not profane the name of your God. (Leviticus 18:21)

Solomon worshiped the Arabic goddess Allat and the detestable Ishmaelite god Allah.

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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #377 on: October 31, 2013, 07:22:06 PM »
I have better perversion techniques.  ::)

I'd rather see answers to my questions than perversion.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:23:48 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline Romaios

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #378 on: October 31, 2013, 07:26:36 PM »

I have better perversion techniques.  ::)

You must not give any of your children as an offering to Allah, so that you do not profane the name of your God. (Leviticus 18:21)

Moloch (representing Semitic מלך m-l-k, a Semitic root meaning "king")

So, whenever "king" pops out in the OT, you may substitute Moloch;)

Do you know the story about the "abomination of desolation"? Shiqqush mishomem < YHWH adored as Ba'al Shomem/Ba'al Shamayim or Zeus Ouranios (Hellenistic syncretism).


« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:29:36 PM by Romaios »

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #379 on: October 31, 2013, 07:31:27 PM »

Do you know the story about the "abomination of desolation"?

Yes, it's still in the Arabic-speaking churches.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #380 on: October 31, 2013, 07:34:21 PM »

Do you know the story about the "abomination of desolation"?

Yes, it's still in the Arabic-speaking churches.

Statues of Zeus and pig sacrifices on the altars?!  :o
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:41:49 PM by Romaios »

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #381 on: October 31, 2013, 07:39:55 PM »
Romeo and Cyrillic,

I do hope you get some amusement out of this.

Amadeus is one of the more confusing people here to me.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #382 on: October 31, 2013, 07:58:11 PM »
Amadeus is one of the more confusing people here to me.

He must be a Turk.  ;D In Romanian that's what we call people who won't understand you no matter what.

Sort of like ostrogoto in Italian or "talking double Dutch"...

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #383 on: October 31, 2013, 08:16:49 PM »
Amadeus is one of the more confusing people here to me.

He must be a Turk.  ;D In Romanian that's what we call people who won't understand you no matter what.

Sort of like ostrogoto in Italian or "talking double Dutch"...

That would make for a good thread. Nationalist, racist, culturalist, ethnitist, slurs used by the worlds of oc.net.

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #384 on: October 31, 2013, 08:26:01 PM »
Amadeus is one of the more confusing people here to me.

He must be a Turk.  ;D In Romanian that's what we call people who won't understand you no matter what.

Sort of like ostrogoto in Italian or "talking double Dutch"...

That would make for a good thread. Nationalist, racist, culturalist, ethnitist, slurs used by the worlds of oc.net.

For the Romanian Weltanschauung, refer to this

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #385 on: November 02, 2013, 02:32:59 PM »

Does the Polish Church not use Polish in the liturgy?

3% or someting.


So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?

During services? No. Unless your bishop allowed.

Is there pressure from the state and the Roman Catholics to not use Polish? I know of a case where Orthodox renting an RC facility in a Spanish speaking place were made to worship in English.
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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #386 on: November 02, 2013, 02:34:57 PM »

Does the Polish Church not use Polish in the liturgy?

3% or someting.


So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?

During services? No. Unless your bishop allowed.

Is there pressure from the state and the Roman Catholics to not use Polish?

No.
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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #387 on: November 02, 2013, 02:39:57 PM »

Does the Polish Church not use Polish in the liturgy?

3% or someting.


So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?

During services? No. Unless your bishop allowed.

Is there pressure from the state and the Roman Catholics to not use Polish? I know of a case where Orthodox renting an RC facility in a Spanish speaking place were made to worship in English.
[/b]

Out of curiosity, can you tell us what RC Diocese ? I'd be curious to see if the Bishop and his Vicar General are speaking out of the same side of their respective mouths vis a vis the Orthodox.

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #388 on: January 02, 2014, 08:16:22 PM »
(Reuters) - Islamic authorities in Malaysia on Thursday seized 321 Bibles from a Christian group because they used the word Allah to refer to God, signaling growing intolerance that may inflame ethnic and religious tension in the Southeast Asian country.

The raid comes after a Malaysian court in October ruled that the Arabic word was exclusive to Muslims, most of whom are ethnic Malays, the largest ethnic group in the country alongside sizeable Christian, Hindu and Buddhist minorities.
....
On Thursday, the top Islamic authority in the richest and most populous state of Selangor seized the Malay-language Bibles from the Bible Society. The society said authority officials escorted two of its officials to a police station to make statements after which they were released on bail.

"We were told that we were under investigation for breaking a Selangor state law banning non-Muslims from using the word Allah," said Bible Society of Malaysia Chairman Lee Min Choon.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #389 on: January 02, 2014, 09:06:44 PM »
Allah predates Islam so the word isn't exclusive to Islam. And yes, Allah is Arabic for God. I don't see how anyone could deny that.

Not true. Neither as a pre-Islamic term nor now does Allah mean God. You are confusing ilah with Allah. These are different.
only as different as "god" and "God."
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #390 on: January 03, 2014, 12:54:30 AM »

Does the Polish Church not use Polish in the liturgy?

3% or someting.


So it does matter to you. Good. Move on to the other questions.

You have not answered my simple question yet. Am I free to say Allat instead of Allah?

During services? No. Unless your bishop allowed.

Is there pressure from the state and the Roman Catholics to not use Polish? I know of a case where Orthodox renting an RC facility in a Spanish speaking place were made to worship in English.
[/b]

Out of curiosity, can you tell us what RC Diocese ? I'd be curious to see if the Bishop and his Vicar General are speaking out of the same side of their respective mouths vis a vis the Orthodox.

Puerto Rico. It was the case at least 10 years ago. It may have changed since.
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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #391 on: January 03, 2014, 08:16:03 AM »
Puerto Rico. It was the case at least 10 years ago. It may have changed since.
Are you talking about the EP parish of St. Spyridon's in Trujillo Alto, Puerto Rico?  They are in what used to be an RC chapel for 4 or 5 years now.  Their Facebook claims they use Spanish, English, Slavonic, and Greek; not sure what is mandated, especially not from the local RC diocese.

Their website (in English): http://netministries.org/frames.asp?ch=ch11325&st=PR&name=St.%20Spyridon's%20Orthodox%20Church&city=Trujillo%20Alto
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saint-Spyridon-Orthodox-Church-Trujillo-Alto-PR/108251335936404
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #392 on: January 03, 2014, 07:36:19 PM »
Puerto Rico. It was the case at least 10 years ago. It may have changed since.
Are you talking about the EP parish of St. Spyridon's in Trujillo Alto, Puerto Rico?  They are in what used to be an RC chapel for 4 or 5 years now.  Their Facebook claims they use Spanish, English, Slavonic, and Greek; not sure what is mandated, especially not from the local RC diocese.

Their website (in English): http://netministries.org/frames.asp?ch=ch11325&st=PR&name=St.%20Spyridon's%20Orthodox%20Church&city=Trujillo%20Alto
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saint-Spyridon-Orthodox-Church-Trujillo-Alto-PR/108251335936404


I think that was the one. Or the ROCOR one. Can't remember. When it was using RC facilities, the local RCs made them use English. Then they moved to the Lutherans' facilities and could use Spanish.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #393 on: January 13, 2014, 05:44:02 PM »
Allah predates Islam so the word isn't exclusive to Islam. And yes, Allah is Arabic for God. I don't see how anyone could deny that.

Not true. Neither as a pre-Islamic term nor now does Allah mean God. You are confusing ilah with Allah. These are different.
only as different as "god" and "God."

Not true. Allah is the supreme ilah of Arabia, the father of Allat, Manat, and the other goddesses and deities. It is possible to say in Arabic "Allah is our only ilah". If we followed your interpretation, this would mean "God is our only god", which would be ridiculous.
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #394 on: January 13, 2014, 05:49:22 PM »
Allah predates Islam so the word isn't exclusive to Islam. And yes, Allah is Arabic for God. I don't see how anyone could deny that.

Not true. Neither as a pre-Islamic term nor now does Allah mean God. You are confusing ilah with Allah. These are different.
only as different as "god" and "God."

Not true. Allah is the supreme ilah of Arabia, the father of Allat, Manat, and the other goddesses and deities. It is possible to say in Arabic "Allah is our only ilah". If we followed your interpretation, this would mean "God is our only god", which would be ridiculous.

Why would it be ridiculous? Doesn't the Islamic creed essentially already do this -- "There is no god but God"? If you don't understand what that means, you're the one who is ridiculous for letting your dislike of everything Islamic get in the way of understanding Arabic before senselessly criticizing it when it is also the native language of millions of Christians around the world. (Who, I would guess, would have no trouble with the first half of the shahada, if it were possible to take it in isolation. There are, in fact, no other gods but the one God. Islam is just wrong about who or what that one God is.)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 05:50:17 PM by dzheremi »

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #395 on: January 13, 2014, 05:52:34 PM »

Why would it be ridiculous? Doesn't the Islamic creed essentially already do this -- "There is no god but God"?

This is circular reasoning. The Islamic shahada actually reads: "There is no god but Allah..." Allah is a god, but not every god is Allah. So simple. If you cannot understand this despite the fact that you speak and defend Arabic, good luck to you...
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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #396 on: January 13, 2014, 05:55:59 PM »
"He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord scoffs at them."

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #397 on: January 13, 2014, 05:59:15 PM »
"He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord scoffs at them."

Amen to that! Adonai YHWH scoffs at all Allah worshippers!  :angel:
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #398 on: January 13, 2014, 06:00:52 PM »
If Allah was good enough for pre-islamic christians, then it's good enough for me.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #399 on: January 13, 2014, 06:04:10 PM »
If Allah was good enough for pre-islamic christians, then it's good enough for me.

If it is good for you to continue the error of the pre-Islamic Christians of Arabia (actually, they were pagans), nothing will stop you.
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #400 on: January 13, 2014, 06:07:53 PM »
If Allah was good enough for pre-islamic christians, then it's good enough for me.

If it is good for you to continue the error of the pre-Islamic Christians of Arabia (actually, they were pagans), nothing will stop you.

Oh good grief! You commit the same "error" every time you say the word God.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #401 on: January 13, 2014, 06:11:14 PM »
If Allah was good enough for pre-islamic christians, then it's good enough for me.

If it is good for you to continue the error of the pre-Islamic Christians of Arabia (actually, they were pagans), nothing will stop you.

Oh good grief! You commit the same "error" every time you say the word God.


Not true. I use the word God to refer to my God. Allah cannot be likewise used to refer to any deity, but only to the specific supreme deity of Arabia, the father of Allat, Manat, and Uzzah... ILAH means god/God in Arabic, not Allah. Allah is not the same as ilah.
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Offline Adela

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #402 on: January 13, 2014, 06:17:49 PM »
Just curious ( and ignorant)...... What does Alleluia really mean?  Googling says Thanks Be To Jaweh.  But wouldn't that be Jawehuia?  Does the Allel come from Allah?

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #403 on: January 13, 2014, 06:22:26 PM »
If Allah was good enough for pre-islamic christians, then it's good enough for me.

If it is good for you to continue the error of the pre-Islamic Christians of Arabia (actually, they were pagans), nothing will stop you.

Oh good grief! You commit the same "error" every time you say the word God.


Not true. I use the word God to refer to my God. Allah cannot be likewise used to refer to any deity, but only to the specific supreme deity of Arabia, the father of Allat, Manat, and Uzzah... ILAH means god/God in Arabic, not Allah. Allah is not the same as ilah.

Yes, it can. Allah was used by various different people as the name of several supreme deities. It was used by arabians, babylonians and Nabataeans. It's correct emytology is that the word is a contraction of the word Ilah and the definitive article al. It is, grammatically, the correct term, when referring to a sole deity, which the Christian god is.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #404 on: January 13, 2014, 06:23:26 PM »
Just curious ( and ignorant)...... What does Alleluia really mean?  Googling says Thanks Be To Jaweh.  But wouldn't that be Jawehuia?  Does the Allel come from Allah?

I guess it is Hallelujah in Hebrew. Hallal (imperative plural of the verb "praise")
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