Author Topic: Good news: No Allah for Christians!  (Read 55596 times)

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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #180 on: October 14, 2013, 06:07:21 PM »
This is like attempting a discussion with a Furbie....
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #181 on: October 14, 2013, 06:07:38 PM »

Apparently, they use the accursed language.  ::)

No language is cursed, only some false concepts...
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #182 on: October 14, 2013, 06:07:49 PM »
This is like attempting a discussion with a Furbie....

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
God bless!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #183 on: October 14, 2013, 06:08:11 PM »

Apparently, they use the accursed language.  ::)

No language is cursed, only some false concepts...
Yes. WE KNOW.  :P
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Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #184 on: October 14, 2013, 06:08:44 PM »
So, was lol'ing my way through this thread

And then this:

Quote
If the Arabs came and my took my church over, I would stop going to church.

Do you have something against Arabs now?
Apparently, they use the accursed language.  ::)

Nonsense. The Arab language is so friendly that its alphabet has a smiley face in it. How could that possibly be accursed?
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^^^ It's been so long since I've been here I literally have no idea what that is even referring to o_O

Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #185 on: October 14, 2013, 06:09:26 PM »
This is like attempting a discussion with a Furbie....

I just laughed really loud while sitting in a quiet classroom <_<
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 06:09:40 PM by Eastern Mind »
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^^^ It's been so long since I've been here I literally have no idea what that is even referring to o_O

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #186 on: October 14, 2013, 06:17:38 PM »
Why would God need a name?

Because He gets tired of people walking up to Him and saying, "Hey ... YOU! ... Hallowed be Your Name ... er, whatever it is!"
Interestingly, "Yo" is a form of "Yahweh".
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #187 on: October 14, 2013, 06:34:48 PM »

The Arabic-speaking saints would like a word with you. Hope that they do not also want to get physical. Pray that you may escape their wrath, for they are God's friends and He doesn't suffer them to be insulted.

Even if that were the case, YHWH would protect me. No saint is greater than YHWH.  ;)

More sectarianism.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #188 on: October 14, 2013, 06:53:30 PM »

The Arabic-speaking saints would like a word with you. Hope that they do not also want to get physical. Pray that you may escape their wrath, for they are God's friends and He doesn't suffer them to be insulted.

Even if that were the case, YHWH would protect me. No saint is greater than YHWH.  ;)

If referring to God as "Allah" is really so blasphemous as you claim as to capitulate to a foreign god altogether, how could our Arabic-speaking saints get past that much less come to be so grace-filled as to be saints - yet once never stopped using the word in their ongoing immersion into the Trinitarian life?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #189 on: October 14, 2013, 07:06:26 PM »
If referring to God as "Allah" is really so blasphemous as you claim as to capitulate to a foreign god altogether, how could our Arabic-speaking saints get past that much less come to be so grace-filled as to be saints - yet once never stopped using the word in their ongoing immersion into the Trinitarian life?

Maybe they're not really saints at all, they're just statistics to make the "Greek Orthodox Patriarchates" of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem look less Greek. 
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #190 on: October 14, 2013, 07:09:18 PM »
Please hold for St. Ephrem the Syrian, he's  on line one. He'd like a word with the OP.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #191 on: October 14, 2013, 07:16:45 PM »
Please hold for St. Ephrem the Syrian, he's  on line one. He'd like a word with the OP.

He used Syriac, but St. Theodore of Edessa was the first Church father to write in Arabic, IIRC from Isa.
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Offline genesisone

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #192 on: October 14, 2013, 07:40:27 PM »
This is not about English speaking people using the word "Allah". I don't know any English speaking Christians who want to do so (in a normal context). If this is about whether or not Arabic speaking Christians should use the word "Allah", then shouldn't this be discussed in "Other Languages"?

I have heard "Allah" used by Arabic speaking Christians and have had them tell me quite clearly that that is the correct word in their language. I wouldn't be so arrogant as to tell them how to speak their own language.

To be pedantic, its about Malay speakers using the loanword from the Arabic.

*wears a white coat so that the tomatoes make tie dye patterns*
You are quite right that that is what started all the fuss here. However, the discussion seems to have taken a turn leading us to debating the use of "Allah" even by Arabic speaking Christians.

It has occurred to me as well that the "news" here is really not so much about the use of "Allah" in any particular religion, but the fact that a government, albeit one of a country in which Islam is the state religion, has prohibited the use of a particular word by non-Muslims in the context of their own faith. It is this interference in religion that is the news. Unfortunately, that discussion would likely turn political very quickly and wouldn't be half as spirited as what is going on here now  :D.

Offline William

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #193 on: October 14, 2013, 09:45:49 PM »
Good job OP, you almost got me to rage. 8/10
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #194 on: October 15, 2013, 07:46:07 AM »
Good job OP, you almost got me to rage. 8/10
:laugh:
God bless!

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #195 on: October 15, 2013, 09:12:42 AM »
Good job OP,

I'm pleased to hear that.

you almost got me to rage. 8/10

Now it is 10/10?
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #196 on: October 15, 2013, 09:14:43 AM »

If referring to God as "Allah" is really so blasphemous as you claim as to capitulate to a foreign god altogether, how could our Arabic-speaking saints get past that much less come to be so grace-filled as to be saints - yet once never stopped using the word in their ongoing immersion into the Trinitarian life?

God is gracious and patient.  :angel:
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Offline sheenj

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #197 on: October 15, 2013, 09:16:50 AM »

If referring to God as "Allah" is really so blasphemous as you claim as to capitulate to a foreign god altogether, how could our Arabic-speaking saints get past that much less come to be so grace-filled as to be saints - yet once never stopped using the word in their ongoing immersion into the Trinitarian life?

God is gracious and patient.  :angel:

I can't remember, where you OK with Syriacs using Alaha, even though it is grammatically identical to Allah?

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #198 on: October 15, 2013, 09:19:42 AM »


I can't remember, where you OK with Syriacs using Alaha, even though it is grammatically identical to Allah?

AFAIK Alaha is more related to the Hebrew Eloah or Elah (Hebrew) than to the Arabic Allah.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:19:56 AM by Theophilos78 »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #199 on: October 15, 2013, 09:20:32 AM »

If referring to God as "Allah" is really so blasphemous as you claim as to capitulate to a foreign god altogether, how could our Arabic-speaking saints get past that much less come to be so grace-filled as to be saints - yet once never stopped using the word in their ongoing immersion into the Trinitarian life?

God is gracious and patient.  :angel:
It is good to know that He has given you the fullness of Truth, but is gracious and patient as He waits for the rest of the Church to come around to your level of wisdom.  ::)
God bless!

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #200 on: October 15, 2013, 09:22:20 AM »

It is good to know that He has given you the fullness of Truth, but is gracious and patient as He waits for the rest of the Church to come around to your level of wisdom.  ::)

This is a straw man. I never claim to be wise.
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Offline sheenj

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #201 on: October 15, 2013, 09:22:36 AM »


I can't remember, where you OK with Syriacs using Alaha, even though it is grammatically identical to Allah?

AFAIK Alaha is more related to the Hebrew Eloah or Elah (Hebrew) than to the Arabic Allah.

It's from the Syriac root Alah, combined with the suffix "-a" which means "The". Same as Al-Ilah, except in Arabic, the "The" is a prefix.

Alaha in Syriac and Allah in Arabic both mean the exact same thing, "The God".
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:26:00 AM by sheenj »

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #202 on: October 15, 2013, 09:26:05 AM »

It's from the Syriac root Alah, combined with the suffix "-a" which means "The". Same as Al-Ilah, except in Arabic, the "The" is a prefix.

To repeat myself, el ilah is not the same as Allah. Allah is similar to Allat, who was believed to be Allah's daughter. The Qur'an treats the word as the name of the one deity, which proves that Ishmaelites try to replace YHWH with Allah.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #203 on: October 15, 2013, 09:31:25 AM »

It is good to know that He has given you the fullness of Truth, but is gracious and patient as He waits for the rest of the Church to come around to your level of wisdom.  ::)

This is a straw man. I never claim to be wise.
Ok, you only to have insight that the rest of the Church does not have. Is that not claiming wisdom?
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Offline sheenj

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #204 on: October 15, 2013, 09:32:22 AM »

It's from the Syriac root Alah, combined with the suffix "-a" which means "The". Same as Al-Ilah, except in Arabic, the "The" is a prefix.

To repeat myself, el ilah is not the same as Allah. Allah is similar to Allat, who was believed to be Allah's daughter. The Qur'an treats the word as the name of the one deity, which proves that Ishmaelites try to replace YHWH with Allah.

Have you ever tried saying Al-Ilah out loud? You pretty much end up saying Allah after the nth amount of time. Contractions such as Al-Ilah --> Allah are a part of natural language progression.

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #205 on: October 15, 2013, 09:33:42 AM »

Ok, you only to have insight that the rest of the Church does not have. Is that not claiming wisdom?

I do not claim this either. If reading a biblical verse and asking people to obey what it says are signs of wisdom, then go ahead.
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #206 on: October 15, 2013, 09:34:59 AM »

It's from the Syriac root Alah, combined with the suffix "-a" which means "The". Same as Al-Ilah, except in Arabic, the "The" is a prefix.

To repeat myself, el ilah is not the same as Allah. Allah is similar to Allat, who was believed to be Allah's daughter. The Qur'an treats the word as the name of the one deity, which proves that Ishmaelites try to replace YHWH with Allah.

But this doesn't change the fact that The God.. It doesn't matter if it is the name of a pagan god, linguistically speaking, it is the proper term. Arab christians used Allah as a name for God before Islam appeared.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #207 on: October 15, 2013, 09:36:45 AM »

Have you ever tried saying Al-Ilah out loud? You pretty much end up saying Allah after the nth amount of time. Contractions such as Al-Ilah --> Allah are a part of natural language progression.

Al-Isra has the definite article and Isra begins with I, but I have never heard people say that it is possible to use Allisra rather than al-Isra.  ::)
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #208 on: October 15, 2013, 09:37:39 AM »

Ok, you only to have insight that the rest of the Church does not have. Is that not claiming wisdom?

I do not claim this either. If reading a biblical verse and asking people to obey what it says are signs of wisdom, then go ahead.

Really...  So you don't remember posting this?


LOL.  Says you.  If the Bible does not allow that, then I suppose the Orthodox Church has fallen into heresy, because I have not read a single patristic Father, priest, monk or bishop that teaches what you are advocating...  In fact, the entire Antiochian Patriarchate teaches the exact opposite.

"Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing"

It seems as if you are stating that the Church does not know what it is doing as you take the role of Christ and plead for forgiveness on its behalf.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #209 on: October 15, 2013, 09:38:20 AM »
The Greek word θεός was used for the pagan gods of Greece, yet it is the word used for God in both the Septuagint and the New Testament. Shouldn't that tell you something?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:38:38 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #210 on: October 15, 2013, 09:40:11 AM »


But this doesn't change the fact that The God.. It doesn't matter if it is the name of a pagan god, linguistically speaking, it is the proper term. Arab christians used Allah as a name for God before Islam appeared.

However, this is condemned in the Bible:

God also said to Moses, “You must say this to the Israelites, ‘The Lord (YHWH)  – the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob – has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my memorial from generation to generation.’
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #211 on: October 15, 2013, 09:41:33 AM »
The Greek word θεός was used for the pagan gods of Greece, yet it is the word used for God in both the Septuagint and the New Testament. Shouldn't that tell you something?

Unless we claim that Theos is the NAME of the God of Israel, no problem.  ;)
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #212 on: October 15, 2013, 09:43:11 AM »

It seems as if you are stating that the Church does not know what it is doing as you take the role of Christ and plead for forgiveness on its behalf.


Only some people who insist on using the pagan god's name for the true God of Israel are in ignorance, not the whole Church. We do not even use the word ILAH in my parish because we do not speak Arabic.  ::)
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #213 on: October 15, 2013, 09:44:43 AM »


But this doesn't change the fact that The God.. It doesn't matter if it is the name of a pagan god, linguistically speaking, it is the proper term. Arab christians used Allah as a name for God before Islam appeared.

However, this is condemned in the Bible:

God also said to Moses, “You must say this to the Israelites, ‘The Lord (YHWH)  – the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob – has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my memorial from generation to generation.’
For crying out loud!  For the 1,000,000th time, no Christian is claiming that Allah is the NAME of God. It is the Arabic word for "The God".  It is a TITLE, not a NAME!
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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #214 on: October 15, 2013, 09:45:31 AM »

It seems as if you are stating that the Church does not know what it is doing as you take the role of Christ and plead for forgiveness on its behalf.


Only some people who insist on using the pagan god's name for the true God of Israel are in ignorance, not the whole Church. We do not even use the word ILAH in my parish because we do not speak Arabic.  ::)

Does anyone alive know the actual pronunciation of the name of God?  If I use the term "God" for God, am I sinning???
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #215 on: October 15, 2013, 09:47:04 AM »


But this doesn't change the fact that The God.. It doesn't matter if it is the name of a pagan god, linguistically speaking, it is the proper term. Arab christians used Allah as a name for God before Islam appeared.

However, this is condemned in the Bible:

God also said to Moses, “You must say this to the Israelites, ‘The Lord (YHWH)  – the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob – has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my memorial from generation to generation.’

You keep ignoring the point. Christian arabs use the Allah as we use the word God, because Allah means The God.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:47:40 AM by Ansgar »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #216 on: October 15, 2013, 09:47:08 AM »

It seems as if you are stating that the Church does not know what it is doing as you take the role of Christ and plead for forgiveness on its behalf.


Only some people who insist on using the pagan god's name for the true God of Israel are in ignorance, not the whole Church. We do not even use the word ILAH in my parish because we do not speak Arabic.  ::)
Ok... so every Arabic Orthodox Christian is in ignorance.  ::) Gotcha.  Thank you for your intercessions and your knowledge of the Arabic language above and beyond the people who actually speak it as a native tongue.
God bless!

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #217 on: October 15, 2013, 09:49:24 AM »

For crying out loud!  For the 1,000,000th time, no Christian is claiming that Allah is the NAME of God. It is the Arabic word for "The God".  It is a TITLE, not a NAME!

Yet you do not need that title. You have got ILAH, which has the same function. When you exclaim, u say Ilaaahi. When you use possessive pronouns, you use Ilah. Then why the need for that extra title?  ::)
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #218 on: October 15, 2013, 09:50:01 AM »
The Greek word θεός was used for the pagan gods of Greece, yet it is the word used for God in both the Septuagint and the New Testament. Shouldn't that tell you something?

Unless we claim that Theos is the NAME of the God of Israel, no problem.  ;)

Arab Christians aren't claiming that Allah is the name of the God of Israel either. They use the word Allah in the same sense that the Greeks use the word Θεός.


For crying out loud!  For the 1,000,000th time, no Christian is claiming that Allah is the NAME of God. It is the Arabic word for "The God".  It is a TITLE, not a NAME!

Yet you do not need that title. You have got ILAH, which has the same function. When you exclaim, u say Ilaaahi. When you use possessive pronouns, you use Ilah. Then why the need for that extra title?  ::)

Why do you make a fuss about this?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:52:02 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #219 on: October 15, 2013, 09:51:36 AM »
Look everyone. Nobody's going to convince Theophilos that he's wrong. More importantly, his opinion is completely irrelevant to Arabic- and Malay- speaking Christians. Let's just find something else to waste our time on, and let this thread die, OK?
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #220 on: October 15, 2013, 09:51:49 AM »

Does anyone alive know the actual pronunciation of the name of God?  If I use the term "God" for God, am I sinning???

No, but if you insist on replacing the name of the one true God with the name of any pagan deity, you are sinning.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #221 on: October 15, 2013, 09:53:24 AM »

For crying out loud!  For the 1,000,000th time, no Christian is claiming that Allah is the NAME of God. It is the Arabic word for "The God".  It is a TITLE, not a NAME!

Yet you do not need that title. You have got ILAH, which has the same function. When you exclaim, u say Ilaaahi. When you use possessive pronouns, you use Ilah. Then why the need for that extra title?  ::)
I don't know... We have the title Orthodox, why do we need the extra titles "Holy, Catholic, Apostolic"  ::)
God bless!

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #222 on: October 15, 2013, 09:53:30 AM »

For crying out loud!  For the 1,000,000th time, no Christian is claiming that Allah is the NAME of God. It is the Arabic word for "The God".  It is a TITLE, not a NAME!

Yet you do not need that title. You have got ILAH, which has the same function. When you exclaim, u say Ilaaahi. When you use possessive pronouns, you use Ilah. Then why the need for that extra title?  ::)

Because it stresses the unity and monotheistic concept of God. There is only one god, The God.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #223 on: October 15, 2013, 09:55:29 AM »

Arab Christians aren't claiming that Allah is the name of the God of Israel either. They use the word Allah in the same sense that the Greeks use the word Θεός.


Yet Arab Christians forget that Allah was the name of the chief deity of Meccan paganism before Islam and is now the name of the Islamic/Quranic deity.

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Good news: No Allah for Christians!
« Reply #224 on: October 15, 2013, 09:56:32 AM »
He hears the prayers and applications of the faithful and the penitent alike as in the case of the Publican and countless others in the course of Scripture  and Tradition. Enough said.