Author Topic: Free Will: Bug in my head  (Read 756 times)

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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Free Will: Bug in my head
« on: October 11, 2013, 12:15:16 PM »
Heard a guy the other day: the only people EVER to have free will: Adam & Eve (and Jesus, of course).
Since the fall none have true free will due to the distortion since;
anyone know an Orthodox approach to this subject?
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 12:16:38 PM »
Heard a guy the other day: the only people EVER to have free will: Adam & Eve (and Jesus, of course).
Since the fall none have true free will due to the distortion since;
anyone know an Orthodox approach to this subject?

No.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 12:22:44 PM »
Who's the guy?
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 01:07:47 PM »

In what sense do we not have free will?

If it's that we have limitations imposed upon us - ie. 10 Commandments, Love one another, turn the other cheek, do this, don't do that, etc., then Adam and Eve also had a restriction (don't eat the fruit from the ONE tree), and yet.....

In this situation we are the same as Adam/Eve.  We know right from wrong, and we can choose for ourselves.

In what other manner is our will limited?  Perhaps by our life situation. I would love a nice huge house, but, I cannot afford it.  Again, this is not a lack of free will, but, a result of the situation, era, society, etc., in to which you were born.

I don't know about you, but, I've got a ton of free will.  Some days I almost wish I had less, because my will often gets me in trouble!  ;)
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 03:08:05 PM »
Our will is impaired due to sin (Ancestral Sin) but it isn't non-existent.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 05:23:17 PM »
Our will is impaired due to sin (Ancestral Sin) but it isn't non-existent.
I know some Calvinist folks who would say we have no free will because in our unregenerate state we are a slave to sin and must obey our master.

I assume the is the POV the OP is asking for folks here to address.
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Offline IoanC

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 08:40:19 AM »
I see free will as a matter of choosing between good and evil and we have that even after the fall. Liberty, on the other hand, would be the ability to do what one likes and we have lost much of that ability after the fall. Being slaves to sin and living in a harsh environment is definitely not liberty, for example, but choosing between good and evil can still be possible even in such conditions.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 08:41:03 AM by IoanC »

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 09:58:05 AM »
Imo, 'free will' is highly overrated.  I mean, look what we do with it.

Yes, yes, I know.  I apologize profusely.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline Putnik Namernik

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 10:15:48 PM »
We have free will and we have had it forever. 
Reharding the fall, I guess your friend forgot why Jesus died.  At the same time tjat has nothing to do with the free will but instead with the "ancestral sin".

Let me rephrase in case I came of unclear. We have free will. We can choose to be good or bad.  There are thing that impact our decisions but we are free to ignore those suggestions if we wish.  Ancestral sin did not eliminate the free will. It was actually a result of free will not being excercised correctly. We are free to act as we please but not everything we choose if of benefit to us.

You friend chose to mention that to you. You chose to post it here and I also freely (as other posters) chose to reply.

Predestination or any such thesis which promotes absence of free will i ilogical and depressing.  If an individual believes that he or she does not have free will then their life is pointless.  God would not create us as slaves. Demon does that.

God as any parent who loves their children advise and teaches us in what is good and what is not. As you can see we freely disobey God as we unfortunatelly do daily.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2013, 12:10:12 AM »
Imo, 'free will' is highly overrated.  I mean, look what we do with it.

Yes, yes, I know.  I apologize profusely.

It's because of humanity's propensity to death that they commit sin against themselves and the holiness of God.
"If only a man desired it for a single day from morning till night, he would be able to come to the measure of God." (Abba Alonius)

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2013, 04:44:36 AM »
Imo, 'free will' is highly overrated.  I mean, look what we do with it.

Yes, yes, I know.  I apologize profusely.

It's because of humanity's propensity to death that they commit sin against themselves and the holiness of God.

Granted.  I just wish we'd spend a lot less time excusing our freely made choices. 
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2013, 05:40:47 AM »
Our will is impaired due to sin (Ancestral Sin) but it isn't non-existent.

Correct. Martin Luther wrote a book called "Bondage of the Will," which asserted that apart from spiritual regeneration man's will is enslaved and cannot be freely exercised. This is obviously contrary to Orthodox doctrine. Man always has free will, but upon Baptism and Chrismation he receives the Holy Spirit and the special graces that empower him to more easily use his volition for good. But good and evil are always choices, and we are always responsible for those choices. We cannot say, "I was bound by sin and couldn't help it."


Selam
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 05:41:10 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Free Will: Bug in my head
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 05:48:56 AM »
Our will is impaired due to sin (Ancestral Sin) but it isn't non-existent.

Correct. Martin Luther wrote a book called "Bondage of the Will," which asserted that apart from spiritual regeneration man's will is enslaved and cannot be freely exercised. This is obviously contrary to Orthodox doctrine. Man always has free will, but upon Baptism and Chrismation he receives the Holy Spirit and the special graces that empower him to more easily use his volition for good. But good and evil are always choices, and we are always responsible for those choices. We cannot say, "I was bound by sin and couldn't help it."


Selam

All too often, we can help it.  We choose not to.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.