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Author Topic: TCP/IP Routing and Defeating your ISP  (Read 410 times) Average Rating: 0
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orthonorm
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« on: October 10, 2013, 10:03:15 PM »

Looking for a thorough text or two to get me back up to speed so I can better thwart my current and future enemy.

I've been playing around with some of my old knowledgez and a little google and have found some bizarre and wild behavior on the part of my ISP. Since I obviously need a refresher in TCP/IP in a *nixesque world I would like it in a text form. I learn everything better in that format even if I have and need to use online resources.

And anything that possibly can me insight into how ISPs are shaping my data usage and more reliable methods to defeat their efforts would be appreciated. The usual suspects are just not reliable (basic port forwarding and the like.)

Cost doesn't matter. Depth and density do.

Thank you.
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 10:06:16 PM »

Did you already PM yesh on this?

He knows his stuff, I'm dead serious.
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 10:18:14 PM »

Did you already PM yesh on this?

He knows his stuff, I'm dead serious.

How would I know to do that?

If YiM has knowledgez, I will send him a cincy care pack to cure all that ails him.
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 10:20:19 PM »

Did you already PM yesh on this?

He knows his stuff, I'm dead serious.

How would I know to do that?

If YiM has knowledgez, I will send him a cincy care pack to cure all that ails him.
Considering his past recommendation on routers was dead on, and he seriously nailed it, he'd be my go-to.

I believe that is his main job anyway...he picks up freelance work IIRC.
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 10:22:43 PM »

You have to find a way to avoid detection so they don't throttle you, but I think YiM would know about it.

I've never had to do anything like that myself. Even when I had Comcast, they never capped me. Now a buddy of mine they did but I can't remember if he got around it or not. I'll have to ask.
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 10:26:39 PM »

You have to find a way to avoid detection so they don't throttle you, but I think YiM would know about it.

I've never had to do anything like that myself. Even when I had Comcast, they never capped me. Now a buddy of mine they did but I can't remember if he got around it or not. I'll have to ask.

Dude, you are out of your depth here. It it not a matter of throttling, but shaping, which I can badly hack around. I want more robust solutions and bone up on TCP/IP as such and how ISPs are attempting to foil me.
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 10:35:03 PM »

Yeah I don't know what you mean by shaping. Only thing I'm familar with on ISPs is how they throttle all NNTP traffic down to basically unsuable speeds (because you did say something about Usenet)

Then you have to use SSL to encrypt that traffic.

But I'll shut up now.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 10:35:28 PM by Achronos » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 04:21:39 PM »

Quote
Looking for a thorough text or two to get me back up to speed so I can better thwart my current and future enemy.

I've been playing around with some of my old knowledgez and a little google and have found some bizarre and wild behavior on the part of my ISP. Since I obviously need a refresher in TCP/IP in a *nixesque world I would like it in a text form. I learn everything better in that format even if I have and need to use online resources.

And anything that possibly can me insight into how ISPs are shaping my data usage and more reliable methods to defeat their efforts would be appreciated. The usual suspects are just not reliable (basic port forwarding and the like.)

Cost doesn't matter. Depth and density do.

Thank you.

I'm an IT Tech by trade. I'm not sure how you access your ISP(cable or dsl modem, usb mobile air card etc..) First, some ISP's put a cap on your bandwidth and some don't. This means that after you've used a certain amount of bandwidth they begin charging you. So, its good to know if yours is capped or not and if so how much is the cap. I'm wondering if that's what you meant by shaping your usage. Other then that I'm not sure exactly what else you want to know.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 04:22:48 PM by orthodox4life » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 05:12:35 PM »

Quote
Looking for a thorough text or two to get me back up to speed so I can better thwart my current and future enemy.

I've been playing around with some of my old knowledgez and a little google and have found some bizarre and wild behavior on the part of my ISP. Since I obviously need a refresher in TCP/IP in a *nixesque world I would like it in a text form. I learn everything better in that format even if I have and need to use online resources.

And anything that possibly can me insight into how ISPs are shaping my data usage and more reliable methods to defeat their efforts would be appreciated. The usual suspects are just not reliable (basic port forwarding and the like.)

Cost doesn't matter. Depth and density do.

Thank you.

I'm an IT Tech by trade. I'm not sure how you access your ISP(cable or dsl modem, usb mobile air card etc..) First, some ISP's put a cap on your bandwidth and some don't. This means that after you've used a certain amount of bandwidth they begin charging you. So, its good to know if yours is capped or not and if so how much is the cap. I'm wondering if that's what you meant by shaping your usage. Other then that I'm not sure exactly what else you want to know.

There is "no cap". They shape my usage like most providers by various methods of throttling traffic based on certain domains and what ports are being used, time of day, amount of usage by others in your area, etc.

I've played around with have using something I am calling dynamic port forwarding, rather than forwarding ports to the usual subjects, which seems to provide just a temporary bump in increase of bandwidth, the hoggiest protocols I use change ports within certain ranges at various intervals.

This has caused my effective bandwidth to quadruple at times but my router or something seems unhappy about the situation as it seems that my network starting "hanging" completely after doing the above.

I would like a decent primer on TCP/IP and how ISPs do their nonsense so I could decide whether there were a tricks I could other than I am doing to get more love from my ISP.

It seems no one cares to answer this thread or more likely no one has the technical expertise to do so. I thought there might be someone out there who could at least point me in the right direction. I've not thought about this stuff since 1993.

In short let's thwart throttling based on:

domain being accessed (netflix.com for instance)
port being used
protocol being used
type of info being exchanged (I am not sure if this is done, but it sure seems like as I messed around with bandwidth over the course of a month)
since I accessing the internet via 4g+, overcoming their ability to differentiate me from a "preferred user" (mobile user), they definitely yank home bandwidth in virtue of mobile users
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 05:24:23 PM »

I sent yesh a PM.
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 10:57:06 PM »

Hey guys,

There are many variables on this situation which can cause this form of bandwidth throttling.

So what types of situations are you seeing?   Is it real fast at first then throttles down within 10-20 seconds, if so this could be a technique called "bursting".     This is where the ISP will allow a person to get incredible bandwidth for short periods of time, but if somebody were to start to transfer a larger file, it would throttle them down as to not hog all the bandwidth in the pipe.

I've never really heard of domain specific throttling.   The domains themselves can change ISP, which would make their ip's different on the host.   Also, I can't imagine an isp being capable of discerning which domains to throttle down on.

They could have a port specific throttle, which would be a bit awkward on many ports.... But sometimes they will do a port throttle on torrent specific ports to throttle the bandwidth down on things such as torrents.

Since you are accessing via 4G (cell phone towers), you will be regulated according to their limiters unless you can root their servers (which is illegal) .  If they have a different bandwidth package for mobile users vs. home users and you want to appear as the other (either mobile or home), you would have to go pretty technical.

First you'd need a mobile data terminal scanner that would read the communications between the cell EIN (amongst other identifiers), and pickup and already active account off another user.  You'd absolutely have to root your cell phone, and keep your fingers crossed that the chipsets are programmable.   You'd have to either directly program (if applicable for cell brand) or finely solder in an I/O port (most likely serial) with 100 ohm resisters @ 5v (same voltage as USB), directly on the phone or mobile device.

You'd have to then enter the credentials of the (victims) device.... Then you'd have an illegal internet device that would cause a clash if their device ever entered the range of that particular cell phone tower again...

So basically, it would be really a huge project, and most likely worth upping the bandwidth package vs. the time spent.

If you increased the bandwidth through port forwarding momentarily, it most likely is the "bursting" technique.  The reason why isp's do this is for the casual internet user.    For instance, if we go to cnn.com check out some news, then go over to maps.google.com, then over to orthodoxchristianity.net there will be breaks in the bandwidth usage.  These breaks will allow the burst limit timer to reset again so that when you are changing pages, it will be very fast.  Start transferring a file, it will be fast at first, then it will slow down...

To get around bandwidth limitations

Hopefully this answered some stuff.

Also if you have access to two connections (such as a 4g and a wifi or dsl or ?), you can use "bonding" to use more than one connection for bandwidth.   There is software such as OCTOPUS+ which is the simple method to bond connections.  Since it uses both connections at the same time, you can put a temp limiter on the bandwidth consumed off the 4g device, thus allowing it to transfer a tiny amount of data info for 3 seconds, then download full at 15, then tiny for 3, then full at 15... etc.  The "bandwidth slowdown" on the 4g side will rebuild the burst while you are still transferring through connection #2, then it will automatically kick in the burst over and over again - rather than slowing down for one long download.  Smiley

^That can get you booted off your isp though.

I think this is what is happening based on what you said.  Feel free to add or ask more. 
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 11:15:18 PM »

^ Thanks so much for replying to this thread.

You are truly a gem and I appreciate you.
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 08:42:02 AM »

Thank you very much YiM.

I'll follow up once I look at my usage and your comments a little more carefully.
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