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Author Topic: Another attempt to disprove Christ... Ugh  (Read 632 times) Average Rating: 0
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tangentdi
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« on: October 09, 2013, 07:21:28 AM »

So I had this sent to me just a little bit ago.
Why do I see this sort of thing every few years? And more importantly, why is this guys Conjecture considered proof? Are people so desperate to escape the fact That Christianity is indeed true?

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 07:28:28 AM »

why is this guys Conjecture considered proof?

Proof? Only in the mind of the author of this rubbish, and in the minds of those he manages to fool.
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 07:31:34 AM »

Say things enough times and many people will consider it true.  He is such a scholar. Roll Eyes  Many people do need an excuse to not believe.  Rarely do they not believe just because.
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 07:38:16 AM »

So I had this sent to me just a little bit ago.
Why do I see this sort of thing every few years? And more importantly, why is this guys Conjecture considered proof? Are people so desperate to escape the fact That Christianity is indeed true?

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

In the mind of the media who despise traditional Christianity, they feel they must "protect" the hoi polloi from religion, hence why stuff like this comes out.  Even during the Easter season for the West, there always has to be an issue of Time that gives "proof" that the Resuurection of Christ just isn't tenable.  Don't sweat it, really.  The Devil is always at work.
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tangentdi
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 07:46:57 AM »

Does anyone know who this guy is? They bill him as a Biblical Expert...
But this stuff seems pretty off the wall. Its like Mixing conspiracy theorism with being anti Christian.
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 07:51:40 AM »

Does anyone know who this guy is? They bill him as a Biblical Expert...
But this stuff seems pretty off the wall. Its like Mixing conspiracy theorism with being anti Christian.

The History Channel has been doing that for years.
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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 07:55:54 AM »

So Rome created Christianity to suppress the Jews and then spent the next 300 years trying to kill it off?  Sounds reasonable.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 07:58:20 AM »

Does anyone know who this guy is? They He bills himself as a Biblical Expert...

Fixed it for you.  Wink
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tangentdi
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 08:17:39 AM »

 laugh Now it makes total sense!  Cheesy
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2013, 08:35:38 AM »

So I tried finding a bio for "Joseph Atwill" and the only thing I could find was that he went to some Jesuit high school in Japan.  It doesn't even mention that he went to college.  Obviously, he is a serious academic worthy of our time.  laugh

http://caesarsmessiahdoc.com/Bios/bios.html
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tangentdi
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 08:42:07 AM »

Here I am trying to become a missionary in Japan...
Strange...
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 09:00:09 AM »

Here I am trying to become a missionary in Japan...
Strange...
I'm curious, why?
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tangentdi
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 09:13:16 AM »

Japan has roughly a 1% Christian population. Out of 128Million population. There an estimated 3Million Christians, and thats kind of a generous Estimate.
I've spent most of my life in love with the culture over there, I love the language too. There are between 15,000 and 30,000 Orthodox currently living in Japan. I haven't been able to find any missionary efforts headed there. At least not in the Orthodox church. Its become my dream to at least make the attempt to make Christianity accessible over there. I want to translate Orthodox Books into Japanese.

If you meant why do I find it strange, Its just I keep running into things that seem to say Japan has an interesting relation ship with the church. The fact that the author of that article went to school there just seemed an interesting coincidence.
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tangentdi
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 09:19:22 AM »

Pray for me?
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 09:30:09 AM »

Japan has roughly a 1% Christian population. Out of 128Million population. There an estimated 3Million Christians, and thats kind of a generous Estimate.
I've spent most of my life in love with the culture over there, I love the language too. There are between 15,000 and 30,000 Orthodox currently living in Japan. I haven't been able to find any missionary efforts headed there. At least not in the Orthodox church. Its become my dream to at least make the attempt to make Christianity accessible over there. I want to translate Orthodox Books into Japanese.

If you meant why do I find it strange, Its just I keep running into things that seem to say Japan has an interesting relation ship with the church. The fact that the author of that article went to school there just seemed an interesting coincidence.


Jesuit missionaries had been there for a long time, so it's not surprising that they still have schools there.  The Orthodox Church is respected over any other church-type organization, partly because they don't beat people over the head while proselytizing (Speaking figuratively, of course).  The Church in Japan is autonomous and Metropolitan Daniel is well-loved and -respected.  I do agree with you that there is a need of evangelization and more books need to be translated.  I will pray for you and,if God will, He will send you there.
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2013, 09:33:20 AM »

I've never thought that attacking people with the Church was a worth while thing.  Its part of why I love the Orthodox  Church so much.
If God wills, All I want is to make sure that the choice is available.
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2013, 09:37:09 AM »

Thank you so much for your prayers.
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2013, 10:22:26 AM »

So I tried finding a bio for "Joseph Atwill" and...

FIRE ATWILL!!!
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2013, 10:23:10 AM »

So I tried finding a bio for "Joseph Atwill" and...

FIRE ATWILL!!!

POM NOMINEE!!!  laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2013, 10:29:09 AM »

So Rome created Christianity to suppress the Jews and then spent the next 300 years trying to kill it off?  Sounds reasonable.  Roll Eyes

That, and the fact that there were people like St. Paul, and the Apostles who were Jews themselves.

As Bart Ehrman said: "No serious scholar thinks that Paul didn't write" the Pauline Epistles. Obviously there are some in dispute like Hebrews and Ephesians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9CC7qNZkOE

Is he implying that the first century documents are untrustworthy and all lies? If Josephus is all we have as a source for the 1st century, there isn't much credibility. Or much to suggest that first century Palestine ever existed. Oh, the Dead Sea Scrolls also!

Outside of the New Testament, and the questionable accuracy of Josephus, the first century is unknown to us.

I also wonder how the Romans were so knowledgeable about the Messiah and Hebrew Linguistics. Matthew 2 uses the prophecy "He shall be called a Nazarene" which doesn't exist. However, the word 'Nazarene' נצר in Hebrew, is linguistically related to the Messianic Branch of David (Isaiah 11:1) which has the same root word. How would Romans know Hebrew Linguistics? And how could they know Jesus' veiled reference to Isaiah 42 and Isaiah 61 in Luke 7:22, and Matthew 11:5, as well as his direct reference to it in Luke 4:16-21 and his saying "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.")

The Romans must have read up on Jewish Messianism and Hebrew Linguistics before they fabricated it. Or they paid someone shrewd to do it, seeing as how almost NOBODY knew how to read in the 1st Century, it must have been from the very HIGHEST AUTHORITIES in Palestine. Maybe even the High Priest Caiphas himself!

Maybe they took a page out of the Essenes Messianic views, which also happen to be completely in line with Christian views on the Messiah being a Suffering Servant and being a healer, liberator to the oppressed and the imprisoned, and a preacher of good news to the poor. Of course,
the 1st century Essenes having an almost exact understanding of the Messiah as Christians do is also a Roman invention. Or it's a coincidence.

Japan has roughly a 1% Christian population. Out of 128Million population. There an estimated 3Million Christians, and thats kind of a generous Estimate.
I've spent most of my life in love with the culture over there, I love the language too. There are between 15,000 and 30,000 Orthodox currently living in Japan. I haven't been able to find any missionary efforts headed there. At least not in the Orthodox church. Its become my dream to at least make the attempt to make Christianity accessible over there. I want to translate Orthodox Books into Japanese.

If you meant why do I find it strange, Its just I keep running into things that seem to say Japan has an interesting relation ship with the church. The fact that the author of that article went to school there just seemed an interesting coincidence.


Missionary work is always something on my mind. I know Japanese... just can't read all of the Kanji. I also know Spanish, so I could go to Latin America...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 10:57:06 AM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2013, 10:12:43 AM »

Why do I see this sort of thing every few years? And more importantly, why is this guys Conjecture considered proof? Are people so desperate to escape the fact That Christianity is indeed true?

A: Because we are ACTUALLY seeing the Antichrist in action-Yes, in our day and age, we are in fact actually seeing a certain manifestation, this is not it's first attack and certainly won't be it's last.
As far as being a scholar-is it not written somewhere "not only do they not enter in their selves but they prevent others from entering in?", did our lord Jesus the true and faithful Christ not say this against the "Atwills" of that day?

May god bless and protect us all from this and any other blasphemies from Satan
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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2013, 05:54:40 PM »

So I tried finding a bio for "Joseph Atwill" and the only thing I could find was that he went to some Jesuit high school in Japan.  It doesn't even mention that he went to college.  Obviously, he is a serious academic worthy of our time.  laugh

http://caesarsmessiahdoc.com/Bios/bios.html

He did go to college--for a technical degree. This is from his blog

"Joseph Atwill began his religious studies as a youth in Japan at the only English-speaking school in the country, the Jesuit-run St. Mary’s Military Academy. The majority of each of his school days was spent studying Greek, Latin, and the Bible, which he found fascinating, although he eventually drifted away from the faith.

Having studied computer science in college, Atwill formed a series of successful companies with one of the most renowned programmers in the world, David Ferguson. Many years later, the sale of his interests in these companies allowed him to return to his earlier interest – the origins of Christianity. He spent over a decade studying hundreds of books, among them, the works of Robert Eisenman and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Together with Eisenman, Atwill wrote a paper on the dating of the Dead Sea Scrolls."

http://caesarsmessiah.com/blog/about/
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2013, 05:57:16 PM »

Why doesn't he show us his evidence?
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2013, 06:00:43 PM »

Atwill, Ehrman, Dan Brown, the latest "scholar--the Muslim who wrote a book that claims Jesus was a Zealot--all of them are debunked by "Heresy of Orthodoxy." As for the reason why they seem to be so popular, the authors of "Heresy of Orthodoxy" think that it is because the culture favors this perversity. From the Amazon reviews:

"Köstenberger and Kruger have produced a volume that is oozing with common sense and is backed up with solid research and documentation. This work is a comprehensive critique of the Bauer-Ehrman thesis that the earliest form of Christianity was pluralistic, that there were multiple Christianities, and that heresy was prior to orthodoxy. Respectful yet without pulling any punches, The Heresy of Orthodoxy at every turn makes a convincing case that the Bauer-Ehrman thesis is dead wrong. All those who have surrendered to the siren song of postmodern relativism and tolerance, any who are flirting with it, and everyone concerned about what this seismic sociological-epistemological shift is doing to the Christian faith should read this book."
—Daniel B. Wallace, Professor of New Testament Studies, Dallas Theological Seminary

http://www.amazon.com/The-Heresy-Orthodoxy-Contemporary-Understanding/dp/1433501430
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 06:01:06 PM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

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