Author Topic: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?  (Read 5844 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« on: October 05, 2013, 06:24:05 AM »
I have a feeling these people are there to spy out our liberty in Christ to bring us into bondage
For he who desires to be great let him be least of all and servant of all
"Test all things. hold fast what is good"
No need to go to Protestant meetings if you don't think it is fitting
Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves
So long as it is not forbidden by the bible
It may not be fitting for those who can not bring the power of orthodoxy and are not strong in their faith or faithful to it
Orthodox things should be given priority but St. Paul Moses Joseph and maybe Daniel had salt in themselves and learned their cultures but brought their God to the people
God requires that we preach the gospel to every living creature in some way
Not all by teaching
Let not many become teachers for we shall receive a stricter judgement
Pray the LORD of the harvest to send our labourers
If He sends out labourers what is our job ? What role do we have ?
Why do they maybe act like they never heard of orthodoxy ?
If you believe Catholics and Protestants can be saved why can't we read their works ?
And why can't we help them spiritually? But I will anyway if I feel I can/should
Another question for Copts who believe Protestants can be saved how if the sacraments were ordained for salvation ? Do you suppose they are saved after death somehow? Or all are baptised with fire ? Doesn't mean all are rewarded
I am not sure orthodoxy follows the bible perfectly or is straight forward
Why did God allow orthodoxy to be corrupted throughout the centuries if He did ?
But the gates of hades shall not prevail
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 06:38:32 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2013, 06:49:38 AM »
I'll tell you how I feel about reading the works of Christians who are not Orthodox.  Orthodox theology is so elaborate, that I know I am not fully cognizant of my own theology.  Therefore, I'm afraid to read of what others Christians write because I'm afraid I'll retain it, and it may be contrary to what our faith teaches.  Writings of the Church Fathers for instance, contains much of which I am unaware, being a layman who reads Orthodox literature casually, but has not formally studied Eastern Orthodox theology; I could be wrongly influenced by the theology of other Christians, even if they are traditional or evangelical in their teaching.  (I'll admit, I watch EWTN periodically, but I try to stay alert to what might be said that is not of something in Orthodoxy.)  There's enough Eastern Orthodox Christian literature to keep me occupied as long as I remain in this life.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2013, 07:55:54 AM »
fair enough but I think God calls me to read other literature as I have a former catholic in my family and I don't think his family is converting to orthodoxy. That way I may be able to attract them more to orthodoxy as I am not blind to their upbringing.
we are not to despise prophesies. But test all things. If satan is trying to attack your orthodoxy be on guard. But I believe I have to give a reason for the hope that is in me with orthodoxy which means I must know of other faiths. I must show I did not choose orthodoxy just because I am born so but because I know it is the truth. This way I will be better able to outreach to others when God calls me to
St John said that the antichrist is he who denies the Father and the Son. That is they hate refuse to give glory to God through Jesus and try to fight God's kingdom
He who is not against us is on our side
"I have become all things to all men" St Paul says


you do not give enough time for orthodoxy so you better stay there but I reached a point where I read so many orthodox stuff I felt there was not much more substance left for me. I thought God wants me to carry out what I learned and then He would teach me more

2 Timothy 2 (New King James Version)
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[c] depart from iniquity.

thats what God has to say about going to heterodox works which try to discourage orthodox from knowing they are being saved as orthodox they want to attack orthodoxy. Don't spend too much time with such works. As they are hateful and corrupt. But those who are loving I think one must be ready to give a defense to all protestants who are not hateful
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 08:04:46 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2013, 08:33:44 AM »
there are also protestants who like to spy out our liberty and some will also try to put hard burdens. Some want to stop us from fasting, going to church, taking communion etc
I don't know to whom that verse of st paul applies but it probably applies today still also.
St Paul says he was redeemed from the aimless conduct received by his fathers
So if we think we must observe rituals that do not produced spiritual growth (and stops us from being good samaritans)
But our sacraments are not rituals they produce spiritual growth.
Not all orthodox hold them to please men as the jews did
But some orthodox are seeking to be saved by rituals and do not help people in need in the street and don't help people in whatever way they can
Jesus said many who are last shall be first. So I am not judging protestants. Many would embrace it if someone showed them it and resolved their issues
That quote from 2 Timothy 2 may not be the exact quote I am looking for. I remember reading a verse that helped me understand whats going on
to avoid certain people and speech. I forget. Too bad I am busy with studies. I don't want to waste all my time and be overwhelmed with bible now
like I can't have any free time for myself. I would accept to have no free time for myself if I felt it was always profitable and God would not try to stop me from being overly righteous. But godliness is profitable more than worldy success st paul says and has promise of the life that now is whatever that means I think it means it has promise to supply all our needs which include enjoyment
Jesus did not say the pharisees should stop tithing but they should do so after they have done justice for the people and been good samaritans and prayed for all men as the bible says. Let love be without hypocrisy
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 08:46:13 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2013, 08:58:50 AM »
How do you know for sure that God has called you to do anything and not that you have merely appointed yourself because you felt like it?
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2013, 09:12:07 AM »
that is a despicable attitude to have towards those who want to be good samaritans and who believe they are obeying the bible(as for you to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is a sin- only you can judge your honesty)
I would not desire to yield submission to you for an hour that good deeds may continue to be performed to those outside
anyway I feel maybe I can stay strictly orthodox (though I would like to read catholic saint stories). Maybe we should all be worrying about the pains of hell we will endure (and hopefully we will be forgiven in the world to come) and the shame for those who have no excuse
Is it right for me to damn my brother in laws family and judge them as though I knew they were evil having no excuse to reject orthodoxy?
I would remain strictly orthodox but I hope I am charitable as an orthodox and some type of blessing they have not seen elsewhere and not someone who has rejected them to eternal damnation
let us not be like those who take the pains of hell lightly. You do not know how horrible hell is. I hope God can scare us all from the pains of hell he has planned for those who do not hunger and thirst after righteousness but nonethelss are confused. Father forgive them they know not what they do
I should stay strictly orthodox and defend my orthodox position as I am after all not a prophet God did not send me to preach the gospel to those outside but that does not mean I am not to be a good samaritan and God does not want me associating with those outside the church and have no role towards them
There is not enough teaching on how bad hell is. It is assumed to be a place only for those who would be damned but even you guys pray for the dead so what excuse do we have?
Is life in prison scary to you guys? you have never tasted of pain you have an easy life
Now that you know you are being saved (if you want to be a part of Jesus and obey Him even if you are confused) you ought to do good deeds to others that they may enjoy what you have
do you read the bible or do you only listen to the church? I hope you have not skipped over things and chosen not to obey some of it because you do not want to. You can ask the church but if what the church tells you is against your conscience God will judge you for rejecting His words
but the church always teaches the truth as far as I am aware and there are always faithful priests over his word which are proof of his words




« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 09:29:58 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2013, 09:55:29 AM »
This thread is scaring me...  :'(
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline LBK

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2013, 09:59:58 AM »
This thread is scaring me...  :'(

Its incoherence is scarier ....
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2013, 10:03:42 AM »
Forbid is a loaded term. How about applying some common sense.

There's a whole ocean of difference between a JW tract and Shakespeare.

Should we not read science or medical or history books by non Orthodox?

If an Orthodox scholar or teacher won't read a critique of Orthodoxy, how is he or she to respond?




Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2013, 10:22:43 AM »
This thread is scaring me...  :'(

What is so scary that you need to cry? don't cry tears of despair blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted

This thread is scaring me...  :'(

Its incoherence is scarier ....

Christ's incoherence is even scarier (because I can not understand Him apart from the church fathers but I confess He has not left me alone as I seek Him and the church and continue to )

Some of you say I must find a wise priest for coherence which I am trying to. Isn't it scary that priests do not have time for me?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 10:27:11 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline LBK

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2013, 10:25:51 AM »
This thread is scaring me...  :'(

What is so scary that you need to cry?

This thread is scaring me...  :'(

Its incoherence is scarier ....

Christ's incoherence is even scarier (because I can not understand Him apart from the church fathers)

Some of you say I must find a wise priest for coherence which I am trying to. Isn't it scary that priests do not have time for me?


It's your manner of expressing yourself which is incoherent. You ramble off in all sorts of directions, and very little of it makes sense, I'm afraid.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2013, 10:28:19 AM »
God forgive you
Not all are required to reply
I believed God made these forums for me to get help otherwise I would not be here
Sirach says do not praise a man while he is living
but some of you orthodox do that all a time and seek honor from one another and despise the poor
the one who deserves honor is the one who shows kindness and whom all bless
When a mans ways please the LORD He makes even his enemies be at peace with Him
I am not at peace with you
And leviticius says do not hate your brother in your heart but rebuke him
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 10:42:54 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline LBK

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2013, 10:41:47 AM »
God forgive you
Not all are required to reply
I believed God made these forums for me to get help otherwise I would not be here
Sirach says do not praise a man while he is living
but some of you orthodox do that all a time and seek honor from one another

What on earth are you saying? None of this makes any sense.  ??? Can't you express yourself more clearly?
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2013, 10:43:23 AM »
No
I am here unless someone wants to ban me
I never sought any trouble
Infact I ban myself
I don't want to be on this forum anymore
you won't see any more posts from me until I see a priest and feel happy with the churches care for me. Until I feel I belong here and have the infallible wisdom and tongue you guys have
Sirach says not to trust everyone for your counselor. You have no feeling
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 11:11:10 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2013, 11:45:20 AM »

Offline mike

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2013, 05:54:37 PM »
Dude, use punctuation and capital letters and blank spaces. This thread is unreadable.
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Offline Faith2545

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2013, 08:00:53 PM »
God forgive you
Not all are required to reply
I believed God made these forums for me to get help otherwise I would not be here
Sirach says do not praise a man while he is living
but some of you orthodox do that all a time and seek honor from one another

What on earth are you saying? None of this makes any sense.  ??? Can't you express yourself more clearly?

I agree. Please speak to an Orthodox Christian priest, soon. You sound like an evangelist - everyone but an Orthodox. You cant quote things and use them in means of pointing other's opinion as faults since they are contrary to your thinking. This is NOT being Orthodox! I still believe you lack much concept of our faith, and the way you use whatever you know or 'believe' in exemplifies an unorthodox manner to say the least.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 08:02:58 PM by Faith2545 »

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2013, 08:30:06 PM »
St. Basil the Great dealt with the use of non-Orthodox literature by Christians centuries and centuries ago, Mike. It's a good read, if you ever want feel like 'un-banning' yourself for long enough to come back here in click that link.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2013, 01:05:20 AM »
Thanks dzhermi
I forgot that I banned myself but I made a necessary apology in my thread intercession of saints
The problem is I think some may think St Basil or his brother Gregory of Nyssa (or is it a different Gregory ?) is a heretic or why do they not listen to him?
But I listen to St Basil as I do not think he was a heretic but probably all the church agreed with him on this one
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 01:07:06 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2013, 01:18:30 AM »
Well that would also make most threads on this site forbidden. :angel:
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2013, 02:12:35 AM »
Sorry I simply cannot read what you are posting, my eyes cannot hand the format.

As to the title question.

Who cares about reading things like shakespeare. But I think it is dangerous to read non-orthodox (heretical) theology. One could easily read it, and remember it, and put it into your thinking.

When reading books, I tend to ignore all my thoughts about things, and agree with what is written, under the assumption that the author is smarter than me, so I should listen to him.

When reading holy fathers, I don't even dare to disagree, I don't want to disagree with St. John Chrysostom, or St. Basil, or any holy father. If I find something I disagree with, I simply tell myself, I better change my opinion. I had to do that a lot with St. John Chrysostom, and his writing about wealth. I grew up with a very capitalistic mindset, in a way of social darwinism. But I had to change my opinion which I grew up with, in order to agree with St. John

If I read a heretical theologians book, I probably could not help myself to still put myself below the writer, and simply make myself to agree with everything read. But this creates problems, since this theology can disagree with orthodox theology. So to stay safe, I do not read such things, because I know I would retain what was written, and adopt some of its writings, even if subconsciously.

that is my opinion.


It reminds me, of what St. Gregory Palamas he talked about pagan writings, such as the Iliad and other things, and from homer ectect. He said, it is okay to read them, only as long as you do it carefully. Personally, I am not being good at being careful. So I always go for a more safe approach
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2013, 03:04:58 AM »
Ps another ramble. I think it is clear but some do not have the gift to understand

Maybe I should take that position also but do orthodox judge catholics as needing to become orthodox?
I will try to keep the peace with my families as much as I can willingly and not as a duty. It is a heavy cross. I can not prove to my brother in law orthodoxy is a must way. Hopefully he did believe in orthodoxy when he got married. That is between him and my sister.
Rather than follow a difficult way which seems led by God but I am not absolutely sure.
I do not think their marriage will survive without respecting the catholic church even though I should not have to. It is my sisters mistake if she is not a saint given visions from God. May God forgive her for thinking God approves of her marriage. She did it ignorantly hopefully. Can I say may God forgive her and him if she tempts her husband to sin but she repents? I am not asking you to answer the question. I am just trying to express my feelings
and may I say God forgive the church for leaving us alone in our problem because of our many sins so they can gloat over our failure
I or we will put our church to shame if we do not think we should try to keep the peace with them to stay together rather than loving tradition over God's commandments.
I am happy for their marriage and I see no reason why it should fail if they love each other. I blame the church or God for not guiding us what to do in the situation or demanding to take a path we don't know will end in peace. Once one is married one can not stop loving to please a church.
There is no way back to be too stubbornly orthodox once the marriage is done. Only God can save us

ps is your signature a warning for me? I hope you are just like me and acknowledging you are a sinner and not a willful demon

« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 03:20:20 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline IoanC

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2013, 03:25:03 AM »
I think some people forbid others their freedom because that's what they do. There really is no real logic to it, just a fear/trauma based thing that is rooted in our souls, an illness. No real use to complain or be surprised by why some forbid others their freedom; it's just the state humanity is in and you just have to work with it. I'd just use my discernment and take what is good and leave what is bad, but based on the truth, not what I like or dislike because that can be deceiving. I mean forbidding others their freedom to forbid :), can be just as fallacious.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 03:25:32 AM by IoanC »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2013, 04:51:42 AM »
I guess you are right it appears one should follow the safe way apart from revelation
assuming I believed there was salvation after death
I am perhaps living as though there is well atleast there is mercy so there is no point taking me seriously if you want to be wicked you can also do wilful sins

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2013, 09:08:32 AM »
This thread seems to have wandered a bit, but imo, I think the original question was a good one.  I agree with Gunnarr, in that reading non-Orthodox material isn't a problem unless you're talking about heretical theology.  (This presumes I properly interpreted Gunnarr's statement.)

Heresy tries to come through the same door as other wickedness--it looks for the soft entry point.  By the time proof-texters and door-knockers get done explaining their doctrines and asserting them as unassailable, everything looks legit and you're no longer sure of what you thought you knew.  That's the danger.  

There isn't a single sect, offshoot, or denomination that doesn't profess to be the sole possessor of the truth.  In deciding where to go, I had to remove that as a means of determining which Church was the true Church--they all say they're right and all of them draw their conclusions in logical fashion back to scripture.  One hour of Odium Fidei followed by coffee and potato salad does not, a church, make.  A church driven by negativity and divisiveness, that seems to define itself mostly in how it thinks Catholics are wrong, is, in my opinion, not of Christ, by Christ, or for Christ.  

They all say they're right.  I was pulling my hair out.  I concluded the purpose was not to convert me but rather to confuse me.  Instill confusion.  You can pull someone off the right path if you can confuse them.  That's invariably the first step--instill confusion.  I think the first time this tactic was used was in Genesis 3:1.  Instill confusion.  

Point being, the soft entry point seems to be the call (or maybe the battle cry) for tolerance and broadmindedness.  You are challenged to have an open mind.  "Make a hole, I'm coming in."  If it can get in, then it has a real shot at instilling confusion, especially with troubled people, damaged people, people in crisis.  I sooooooo fall into that category, so I had unwittingly presented myself as a target.  I have noticed that a lot of 'born again' efforts target precisely these kinds of people--they're easier to sway, and once you've convinced them, they become your most aggressive campaigners.  If you want to be born again, just go within 50 feet of a rehab center, halfway house, or prison.  There they are.  

I'm babbling because I haven't slept all night--I apologize for that.  I've kinda gone all the way around the block in order to go from my front door to the end of my driveway, but what I'm getting at is this:  What is the point of reading heretical material?  I've never heard of any Orthodox church or clergy trying to forbid members from reading any material in particular, but I'm new to this anyway.  If it does occur, I could easily see this being the reason, although I wouldn't agree with employing a method that defeats free will.  Things like tracts, newsletters, pamphlets, etc.  There's nothing to be gained but confusion.  
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 09:10:56 AM by newtoorthodoxy »
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2013, 09:51:02 AM »
The above response rings true. Go ahead and read what you will, take the precious time God has given you and chase all manner of things, but to what end? If you are not worshiping God in the correct manner, and you consider that part of your "individual freedom" then you are also free to sin, run around in circles, and do as you please.
I too do not like others limiting my freedom, however, as posted previously, that is what some other folks do. Their motives may be good in that they, in their experience, do not wish others to pursue things outside of The Truth, and know that half-truths are seductive to those of us with weak minds, or are puffed up with in our own strong minds.
In the end you come to know "God is The Creator of all free beings" to which I bow, however, like you, Mike, or so it seems to me, I don't know if that is a curse or a blessing, as I am new to this as well.
God is The Creator of All Free Beings

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2013, 01:01:25 PM »
Sirach says do not praise a man while he is living

Wasn't it Solon who said that?

Until I feel I belong here and have the infallible wisdom and tongue you guys have

Everyone thinks he has infallible wisdom. This is the internet.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 01:02:26 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline biro

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2013, 01:03:26 PM »
I can go to the library or store and read whatever I want. No one's ever told me not to read something; indeed, I think a person has to know at least a little about the beliefs of others, just for reality's sake. It's a varied world.

That said, I try to concentrate on Orthodox readings because that is my faith and I want to nourish it.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2013, 01:04:43 AM »
Here is a verse but not the one I am still trying to find but I remember this one now also

Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been
Hebrews

But this must be read it context it's just that St. Paul focuses that he does not preach mans wisdom but Christ crucified the early church had abundant assurance of their faith and miracles and no need to defend themselves
But don't we need to defend the hope in us ?
It was a waste of time then but not now but even now it is sometimes
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 01:07:41 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2013, 05:12:44 AM »
I think this is the verse I wanted to find

1 Timothy 6

20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.

Grace be with you. Amen.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2013, 06:44:49 PM »
I remember our priest from the 70s said he liked to watch horror movies, which is similar to liking heretical books, and a later priest who went to see "The Exorcist", even though it was rated X at the time.

There is a grey area of what can be done, and it will vary according to the persons knowledge and faith.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 06:55:33 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Offline Melodist

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Re: Why do some orthodox forbid reading non orthodox things ?
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2013, 07:47:58 PM »
Because if one is not strong in their faith, it can lead to more of this...

I am not sure orthodoxy follows the bible perfectly or is straight forward
Why did God allow orthodoxy to be corrupted throughout the centuries if He did ?

And less of this...

Quote
But the gates of hades shall not prevail

That being said, there's nothing wrong testing all things and holding fast to what's good, as long as you use the Orthodox faith as a whole as the standard by which you measure.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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