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Author Topic: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications  (Read 4720 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2013, 12:43:01 PM »

We'll just build a new Hagia Sophia. My family have big cornfield we can use.

Done.





Not big enough.

Beautiful, nonetheless.

Yes. Is it Poland?
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« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2013, 12:43:48 PM »

Anyone want to join my campaign to have the EP moved to New York after the current Patriarch's time is up?

No.

Why not? Everything he has is in English-speaking countries anyway.

It's the Nea Megali Idea!
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« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2013, 12:51:17 PM »

Anyone want to join my campaign to have the EP moved to New York after the current Patriarch's time is up?

No.

Why not? Everything he has is in English-speaking countries anyway.

It's the Nea Megali Idea!

I second this, because I'm from Queens.  Wink
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« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2013, 01:25:48 PM »

Good Lord!  Y'all sure do get riled up really quick over little things.  Allow me to clear up a few things.  First, I ain't Greek so that Megali Idea, or whatever you call it conspiracy, means nothing to me.  Second, many Orthodox (and Orthodox material) still refer to Istanbul as Constantinople  (I used the Greek 'Constantinopolis' which probably caught the attention of the resident conspiracy nuts).  Finally, and this is key so pay attention, the majority Eastern Orthodox Christians wish to see the Topkapi Museum returned to Christians as the Hagia Sophia.  But what good would a huge church be with few parishioners and surrounded my Muhammadans?  This is why I wondered about the logistics and moral implications about restructuring Istanbul/Constantinople.  It was meant to be more of a fun exercise (or what some of our boorish and base members called mental masturbation) than anything.  If it's making some of you cry, then may I suggest you redirect your energies to the cigar smoking thread.
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« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2013, 03:54:23 PM »

Good Lord!  Y'all sure do get riled up really quick over little things.  Allow me to clear up a few things.  First, I ain't Greek so that Megali Idea, or whatever you call it conspiracy, means nothing to me.  Second, many Orthodox (and Orthodox material) still refer to Istanbul as Constantinople  (I used the Greek 'Constantinopolis' which probably caught the attention of the resident conspiracy nuts).  Finally, and this is key so pay attention, the majority Eastern Orthodox Christians wish to see the Topkapi Museum returned to Christians as the Hagia Sophia.  But what good would a huge church be with few parishioners and surrounded my Muhammadans?  This is why I wondered about the logistics and moral implications about restructuring Istanbul/Constantinople.  It was meant to be more of a fun exercise (or what some of our boorish and base members called mental masturbation) than anything.  If it's making some of you cry, then may I suggest you redirect your energies to the cigar smoking thread.

Well that's what your thread is about, so you might want to learn what it is.

lol "Muhammadan". I assume you're kidding, in which case, well done.
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« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2013, 04:59:39 PM »


Białystok.
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« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2013, 07:05:03 PM »



Well that's what your thread is about, so you might want to learn what it is.



 Right back atcha, sport. 

From the Wiki article:

"The Megali Idea (Greek: Μεγάλη Ιδέα Megáli Idéa, the "Big Idea"[1]) was an irredentist concept of Greek nationalism that expressed the goal of establishing a Greek state that would encompass all ethnic Greek-inhabited areas, including the large Greek populations that after the restoration of Greek independence in 1830, from the Ottoman Empire, still lived under Ottoman occupation.[2]"


  I've already explained that I'm not Greek, so why would I be interested in Greek nationalism?  Furthermore, how could Istanbul/Constantinople be equated with "... all ethnic Greek inhabited areas, including the large Greek populations that after the restoration of Greek independence in 1830,...".  Think it through sport, think it through.

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« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2013, 07:06:28 PM »


 That is beautiful!
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« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2013, 02:25:58 AM »


Interior: http://halczak.pl/tag/hagia-sophia-bialystok/
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« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2013, 03:39:45 AM »



Well that's what your thread is about, so you might want to learn what it is.



 Right back atcha, sport. 

From the Wiki article:

"The Megali Idea (Greek: Μεγάλη Ιδέα Megáli Idéa, the "Big Idea"[1]) was an irredentist concept of Greek nationalism that expressed the goal of establishing a Greek state that would encompass all ethnic Greek-inhabited areas, including the large Greek populations that after the restoration of Greek independence in 1830, from the Ottoman Empire, still lived under Ottoman occupation.[2]"


  I've already explained that I'm not Greek, so why would I be interested in Greek nationalism?  Furthermore, how could Istanbul/Constantinople be equated with "... all ethnic Greek inhabited areas, including the large Greek populations that after the restoration of Greek independence in 1830,...".  Think it through sport, think it through.



Conquering Constantinople was the main goal of the Megali Idea.
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« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2013, 09:41:19 AM »

It is the dream of most Orthodox Christians that Constantinople once again flourish as a Christian center city.  But let's say that re-conquering is a possiblity, what moral and ethical obligations to the Muhammadan would we have as Christians?  Could we impose Greek as the lingua franca?  Would that mean Turkish is outlawed only to be spoken in homes?  How about relocating the Turk to accomodate Christians?  Would that be moral?  Obviously we would once again pray in Hagia Sophia, but what of the cities other mosques?  Would we close some?  Turn them into Churches?  

 Just a few things to ponder, I guess...

The problem with such "ponderings" is that they may result in additional persecutions of Christians by Islamists around the world, to say nothing of the remaining Greeks in Turkey. Bottom line: This is a most irresponsible post, even though it is bereft of logic and betrays gross historical ignorance.
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« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2013, 09:51:44 AM »

Come on guys, I really think you're taking this way too seriously. It isn't as if he called for a crusade.
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« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2013, 10:42:12 AM »

Obviously to take the city you'd probably have to gas it first.  Are Christians segregated in Miklagard?  If so, that would be very convenient.  Also, unlike conventional shelling or nuclear weapons gas would not damage the structures.  It would take a bit of cleanup as an effective nerve agent leaves a mess, but otherwise, everything would be in tact.  Biological weapons are just too darn uncontrollable, and shelling not only ruins structures that would be better for future usage but would also create ruins - probably one of the best defensive structures ever created, albeit unintentionally.  As for the rest of Turkey, nuclear weapons would neutralize their army rather effectively.  If you want to go conventional, you would need probably 10,000 men armed and equiped to SADF/IDF standards.  Allies are also useful.  Syria has reason to be ticked at the Turks after they clean up their mess.  Likewise, the Kurds and Armenians could potentially profit.  Greece is kind of useless at the moment, though if a group like Golden Dawn were to take over they could have motive.  Bulgaria would be better.  Their army is pretty top notch, or at least their equipment is.

Now, into the real world...

In all reality, Russia is the only army that could realistically take on Turkey.  If they do, it will be an economics fight rather than a military one.  And this I think is a very realistic consideration.  Russia has the European gas market pretty well cornered.  Gazprom is probably one of the more influential corporations in the world.  If Turkey were to threaten this hegemony Russia would do something.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet is that Turkey is a member of NATO.  (If it has been mentioned, my apologies.)  It's not so much the Turkish army that needs to be feared but the Turks + Germany/France/US/Britain/Holland/Belgium/Greece/Italy/and so on.  If Turkey were to go full-retard (aka Islamist) and drop out of NATO or be pushed out, their life expectancy as a unified state would drop somewhat.

A real potential threat would be the creation of a Kurdistan in Turkey, Iraq, and Syria.  The Kurds have been gaining a lot of military experience in Syria and Iraq over the last 10 years.  If anything is going to hurt a modern nation state it will be a full blown insurgency.  They have some mountainous regions to use as a base and could just hop the border to Syria or Iraq any time they needed to get some space.  Turkish cross border attacks could spark a conflict with Syria or Iraq...and then Iran could get involved.



Taking back Miklagard is an exercise in fantasy but there are plenty of offshoots that are more plausible. 
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« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2013, 10:42:54 AM »


And I thought he was Jewish.
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« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2013, 10:44:46 AM »

Obviously to take the city you'd probably have to gas it first.  Are Christians segregated in Miklagard?  If so, that would be very convenient.  Also, unlike conventional shelling or nuclear weapons gas would not damage the structures.  It would take a bit of cleanup as an effective nerve agent leaves a mess, but otherwise, everything would be in tact.  Biological weapons are just too darn uncontrollable, and shelling not only ruins structures that would be better for future usage but would also create ruins - probably one of the best defensive structures ever created, albeit unintentionally.  As for the rest of Turkey, nuclear weapons would neutralize their army rather effectively.  If you want to go conventional, you would need probably 10,000 men armed and equiped to SADF/IDF standards.  Allies are also useful.  Syria has reason to be ticked at the Turks after they clean up their mess.  Likewise, the Kurds and Armenians could potentially profit.  Greece is kind of useless at the moment, though if a group like Golden Dawn were to take over they could have motive.  Bulgaria would be better.  Their army is pretty top notch, or at least their equipment is.

Now, into the real world...

In all reality, Russia is the only army that could realistically take on Turkey.  If they do, it will be an economics fight rather than a military one.  And this I think is a very realistic consideration.  Russia has the European gas market pretty well cornered.  Gazprom is probably one of the more influential corporations in the world.  If Turkey were to threaten this hegemony Russia would do something.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet is that Turkey is a member of NATO.  (If it has been mentioned, my apologies.)  It's not so much the Turkish army that needs to be feared but the Turks + Germany/France/US/Britain/Holland/Belgium/Greece/Italy/and so on.  If Turkey were to go full-retard (aka Islamist) and drop out of NATO or be pushed out, their life expectancy as a unified state would drop somewhat.

A real potential threat would be the creation of a Kurdistan in Turkey, Iraq, and Syria.  The Kurds have been gaining a lot of military experience in Syria and Iraq over the last 10 years.  If anything is going to hurt a modern nation state it will be a full blown insurgency.  They have some mountainous regions to use as a base and could just hop the border to Syria or Iraq any time they needed to get some space.  Turkish cross border attacks could spark a conflict with Syria or Iraq...and then Iran could get involved.



Taking back Miklagard is an exercise in fantasy but there are plenty of offshoots that are more plausible. 

At least GiC graduated beyond tabletop . . .
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« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2013, 11:10:47 AM »

We'll just build a new Hagia Sophia. My family have big cornfield we can use.

Done.





This isn't quite as big, but is modeled after the Hagia Sophia:



St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church, Charlotte, NC USA
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« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2013, 11:12:53 AM »

This is stuff is like Odox Vegas.
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« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2013, 11:17:04 AM »

Here is an interesting article translated by John Sanidopoulos on the subject of Orthodoxy in Turkey:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/09/fascinating-research-on-orthodox.html
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« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2013, 11:44:15 AM »

We'll just build a new Hagia Sophia. My family have big cornfield we can use.

Done.





This isn't quite as big, but is modeled after the Hagia Sophia:



St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church, Charlotte, NC USA

That's Bishop Gregory' s home parish!
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« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2013, 11:50:51 AM »

We'll just build a new Hagia Sophia. My family have big cornfield we can use.

Done.





This isn't quite as big, but is modeled after the Hagia Sophia:



St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church, Charlotte, NC USA

That's Bishop Gregory' s home parish!

It's not Hagia Sophia.

And Warsaw is going to have its Hagia Sophia too.
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« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2013, 11:59:47 AM »

This thread has convinced me to go play Medieval Total War II.  Sleep tight everyone, Constantinople is safely in the hands of the Byzantine Empire for as long as I am around. I think I might go take Jerusalem and Alexandria too.  That will show those Mohammedans.
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« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2013, 12:30:36 PM »

This is stuff is like Odox Vegas.

 Cheesy
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« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2013, 12:38:37 PM »

This thread has convinced me to go play Medieval Total War II.  Sleep tight everyone, Constantinople is safely in the hands of the Byzantine Empire for as long as I am around. I think I might go take Jerusalem and Alexandria too.  That will show those Mohammedans.

Please, use Broken Crescent and Stainless Steel, excellent mods.
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« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2013, 12:47:05 PM »

Obviously to take the city you'd probably have to gas it first.  Are Christians segregated in Miklagard?  If so, that would be very convenient.  Also, unlike conventional shelling or nuclear weapons gas would not damage the structures.  It would take a bit of cleanup as an effective nerve agent leaves a mess, but otherwise, everything would be in tact.  Biological weapons are just too darn uncontrollable, and shelling not only ruins structures that would be better for future usage but would also create ruins - probably one of the best defensive structures ever created, albeit unintentionally.  As for the rest of Turkey, nuclear weapons would neutralize their army rather effectively.  If you want to go conventional, you would need probably 10,000 men armed and equiped to SADF/IDF standards.  Allies are also useful.  Syria has reason to be ticked at the Turks after they clean up their mess.  Likewise, the Kurds and Armenians could potentially profit.  Greece is kind of useless at the moment, though if a group like Golden Dawn were to take over they could have motive.  Bulgaria would be better.  Their army is pretty top notch, or at least their equipment is.

Now, into the real world...

In all reality, Russia is the only army that could realistically take on Turkey.  If they do, it will be an economics fight rather than a military one.  And this I think is a very realistic consideration.  Russia has the European gas market pretty well cornered.  Gazprom is probably one of the more influential corporations in the world.  If Turkey were to threaten this hegemony Russia would do something.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet is that Turkey is a member of NATO.  (If it has been mentioned, my apologies.)  It's not so much the Turkish army that needs to be feared but the Turks + Germany/France/US/Britain/Holland/Belgium/Greece/Italy/and so on.  If Turkey were to go full-retard (aka Islamist) and drop out of NATO or be pushed out, their life expectancy as a unified state would drop somewhat.

A real potential threat would be the creation of a Kurdistan in Turkey, Iraq, and Syria.  The Kurds have been gaining a lot of military experience in Syria and Iraq over the last 10 years.  If anything is going to hurt a modern nation state it will be a full blown insurgency.  They have some mountainous regions to use as a base and could just hop the border to Syria or Iraq any time they needed to get some space.  Turkish cross border attacks could spark a conflict with Syria or Iraq...and then Iran could get involved.



Taking back Miklagard is an exercise in fantasy but there are plenty of offshoots that are more plausible. 

At least GiC graduated beyond tabletop . . .

Miniature warfare is the closet Nazi's last solace.
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« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2013, 01:01:55 PM »

We'll just build a new Hagia Sophia. My family have big cornfield we can use.

Done.





This isn't quite as big, but is modeled after the Hagia Sophia:



St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church, Charlotte, NC USA

That's Bishop Gregory' s home parish!

And mine.  He still comes by for a visit from time to time.
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« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2013, 01:25:38 PM »

Obviously to take the city you'd probably have to gas it first.  Are Christians segregated in Miklagard?  If so, that would be very convenient.  Also, unlike conventional shelling or nuclear weapons gas would not damage the structures.  It would take a bit of cleanup as an effective nerve agent leaves a mess, but otherwise, everything would be in tact.  Biological weapons are just too darn uncontrollable, and shelling not only ruins structures that would be better for future usage but would also create ruins - probably one of the best defensive structures ever created, albeit unintentionally.  As for the rest of Turkey, nuclear weapons would neutralize their army rather effectively.  If you want to go conventional, you would need probably 10,000 men armed and equiped to SADF/IDF standards.  Allies are also useful.  Syria has reason to be ticked at the Turks after they clean up their mess.  Likewise, the Kurds and Armenians could potentially profit.  Greece is kind of useless at the moment, though if a group like Golden Dawn were to take over they could have motive.  Bulgaria would be better.  Their army is pretty top notch, or at least their equipment is.

Now, into the real world...

In all reality, Russia is the only army that could realistically take on Turkey.  If they do, it will be an economics fight rather than a military one.  And this I think is a very realistic consideration.  Russia has the European gas market pretty well cornered.  Gazprom is probably one of the more influential corporations in the world.  If Turkey were to threaten this hegemony Russia would do something.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet is that Turkey is a member of NATO.  (If it has been mentioned, my apologies.)  It's not so much the Turkish army that needs to be feared but the Turks + Germany/France/US/Britain/Holland/Belgium/Greece/Italy/and so on.  If Turkey were to go full-retard (aka Islamist) and drop out of NATO or be pushed out, their life expectancy as a unified state would drop somewhat.

A real potential threat would be the creation of a Kurdistan in Turkey, Iraq, and Syria.  The Kurds have been gaining a lot of military experience in Syria and Iraq over the last 10 years.  If anything is going to hurt a modern nation state it will be a full blown insurgency.  They have some mountainous regions to use as a base and could just hop the border to Syria or Iraq any time they needed to get some space.  Turkish cross border attacks could spark a conflict with Syria or Iraq...and then Iran could get involved.



Taking back Miklagard is an exercise in fantasy but there are plenty of offshoots that are more plausible. 

At least GiC graduated beyond tabletop . . .

Miniature warfare is the closet Nazi's last solace.

What?
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« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2013, 01:25:48 PM »

Obviously to take the city you'd probably have to gas it first.  Are Christians segregated in Miklagard?  If so, that would be very convenient.  Also, unlike conventional shelling or nuclear weapons gas would not damage the structures.  It would take a bit of cleanup as an effective nerve agent leaves a mess, but otherwise, everything would be in tact.  Biological weapons are just too darn uncontrollable, and shelling not only ruins structures that would be better for future usage but would also create ruins - probably one of the best defensive structures ever created, albeit unintentionally.  As for the rest of Turkey, nuclear weapons would neutralize their army rather effectively.  If you want to go conventional, you would need probably 10,000 men armed and equiped to SADF/IDF standards.  Allies are also useful.  Syria has reason to be ticked at the Turks after they clean up their mess.  Likewise, the Kurds and Armenians could potentially profit.  Greece is kind of useless at the moment, though if a group like Golden Dawn were to take over they could have motive.  Bulgaria would be better.  Their army is pretty top notch, or at least their equipment is.

Now, into the real world...

In all reality, Russia is the only army that could realistically take on Turkey.  If they do, it will be an economics fight rather than a military one.  And this I think is a very realistic consideration.  Russia has the European gas market pretty well cornered.  Gazprom is probably one of the more influential corporations in the world.  If Turkey were to threaten this hegemony Russia would do something.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet is that Turkey is a member of NATO.  (If it has been mentioned, my apologies.)  It's not so much the Turkish army that needs to be feared but the Turks + Germany/France/US/Britain/Holland/Belgium/Greece/Italy/and so on.  If Turkey were to go full-retard (aka Islamist) and drop out of NATO or be pushed out, their life expectancy as a unified state would drop somewhat.

A real potential threat would be the creation of a Kurdistan in Turkey, Iraq, and Syria.  The Kurds have been gaining a lot of military experience in Syria and Iraq over the last 10 years.  If anything is going to hurt a modern nation state it will be a full blown insurgency.  They have some mountainous regions to use as a base and could just hop the border to Syria or Iraq any time they needed to get some space.  Turkish cross border attacks could spark a conflict with Syria or Iraq...and then Iran could get involved.



Taking back Miklagard is an exercise in fantasy but there are plenty of offshoots that are more plausible. 

At least GiC graduated beyond tabletop . . .

Miniature warfare is the closet Nazi's last solace.

Not really.  The Allies still have the numbers, even on the tabletop.  Wunderwaffen help you little if the dice gods do not favour you.  I prefer Soviets or North Vietnamese on the tabletop.  
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« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2013, 02:20:06 PM »

I don't get it. Where's all the outrage? Seriously, the OP entertained mass ethnic deportations and banning a language. Are you all too tired from my bench press thread? This one is far worse, imo.
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« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2013, 02:43:55 PM »

I don't get it. Where's all the outrage? Seriously, the OP entertained mass ethnic deportations and banning a language. Are you all too tired from my bench press thread? This one is far worse, imo.

Don't be jealous.
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« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2013, 03:22:50 PM »

Miniature warfare is the closet Nazi's last solace.

I wish I could steal the part of your brain that comes up with these things.
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« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2013, 07:17:47 PM »

I don't get it. Where's all the outrage? Seriously, the OP entertained mass ethnic deportations and banning a language. Are you all too tired from my bench press thread? This one is far worse, imo.

 Why thank you, Willie my boy.  Maybe you and Karl can hold and comfort one another.  Wink 
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« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2013, 12:30:45 AM »

This thread has convinced me to go play Medieval Total War II.  Sleep tight everyone, Constantinople is safely in the hands of the Byzantine Empire for as long as I am around. I think I might go take Jerusalem and Alexandria too.  That will show those Mohammedans.

Please, use Broken Crescent and Stainless Steel, excellent mods.
As a matter of fact, I do use Stainless Steel mod.  It is fantastic.
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« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2013, 01:06:33 AM »

This thread has convinced me to go play Medieval Total War II.  Sleep tight everyone, Constantinople is safely in the hands of the Byzantine Empire for as long as I am around. I think I might go take Jerusalem and Alexandria too.  That will show those Mohammedans.

Please, use Broken Crescent and Stainless Steel, excellent mods.
As a matter of fact, I do use Stainless Steel mod.  It is fantastic.

I approve of all these posts!!!

It is very nice, to have a Patriarch as well in stainless steel!

Don't forget, to put a bishop in each of your cities to better role play!!!!
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« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2013, 01:12:15 AM »

One thing also, another, even if you magically fought the way all the way to constantinople, would you really want to risk terrorist attacks in the city? on the ancient buildings? the agia sophia could simply be destroyed by some terrorists

what is the point? It is a church. more churches can be built. God allowed the city to be taken and for the sacking to happen. what was the reason? think about it


also, yes, let us move the EP to new york. it wil end the persecution complex and constant meetings of politicans trying to get their sympathies to help. or just give it to Kiril. I am sure he would love to be EP


last thought

It was not the fault of the muslims that constantinople fell and that the empire fell.
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« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2013, 07:28:46 AM »

Has anyone noticed that what's really left of Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, is basically a pile of rubble, aside from the walls, the Agia Sophia and a handful of other buildings? Nowadays the best parts of the city are really the Turkish bits.
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« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2013, 02:27:19 PM »

Has anyone noticed that what's really left of Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, is basically a pile of rubble, aside from the walls, the Agia Sophia and a handful of other buildings? Nowadays the best parts of the city are really the Turkish bits.

New York, on the other hand, is really nice these days.
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« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2013, 03:02:37 PM »

Has anyone noticed that what's really left of Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, is basically a pile of rubble, aside from the walls, the Agia Sophia and a handful of other buildings? Nowadays the best parts of the city are really the Turkish bits.

New York, on the other hand, is really nice these days.

BTW I agree with you on this one. It is, however, not much more likely than a reconquest of Constantinople.
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« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2013, 03:32:08 PM »

Has anyone noticed that what's really left of Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, is basically a pile of rubble, aside from the walls, the Agia Sophia and a handful of other buildings? Nowadays the best parts of the city are really the Turkish bits.

New York, on the other hand, is really nice these days.

It beats Philadelphia for sure....although Philly's not too bad of a city, it's not world class though.....
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« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2013, 03:35:04 PM »

Has anyone noticed that what's really left of Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, is basically a pile of rubble, aside from the walls, the Agia Sophia and a handful of other buildings? Nowadays the best parts of the city are really the Turkish bits.

New York, on the other hand, is really nice these days.

It beats Philadelphia for sure....although Philly's not too bad of a city, it's not world class though.....

Philly... YUCK.
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« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2013, 03:49:52 PM »

Eh... Two words: Occupy Vatican.  angel
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« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2013, 03:51:43 PM »

Has anyone noticed that what's really left of Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, is basically a pile of rubble, aside from the walls, the Agia Sophia and a handful of other buildings? Nowadays the best parts of the city are really the Turkish bits.

New York, on the other hand, is really nice these days.

It beats Philadelphia for sure....although Philly's not too bad of a city, it's not world class though.....

Philly has a lot of great stuff in it, but it's fragmented and none of it seems to come together to make a great world city.
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« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2013, 04:02:56 PM »

Favorite world large cities that I have been in:
Florence, Italy
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Los Angeles, CA
Chicago, IL
Washington, DC
Las Vegas, NV

Cities I thought were overrated:
Venice, Italy
Lima, Peru
Philadelphia, PA
New York, NY
Miami, FL
St. Louis, MO
Boston, MA
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« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2013, 04:12:18 PM »

Cities I thought were overrated:

New York, NY

Cities I thought were overrated:

York, PA
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« Reply #88 on: October 08, 2013, 04:13:10 PM »

Favorite world large cities that I have been in:
Florence, Italy
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Los Angeles, CA
Chicago, IL
Washington, DC
Las Vegas, NV

Cities I thought were overrated:
Venice, Italy
Lima, Peru
Philadelphia, PA
New York, NY
Miami, FL
St. Louis, MO
Boston, MA

Can't speak to all of them, but I wouldn't include New York as overrated. The other American one's you mentioned maybe...parts of each of them are pretty great.....
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« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2013, 04:13:37 PM »

Cities I thought were overrated:

New York, NY

Cities I thought were overrated:

York, PA

Johnstown, PA, Binghamton, NY......Scranton, PA
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