Author Topic: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications  (Read 5565 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #135 on: October 09, 2013, 08:15:57 PM »
Cheese whiz is nasty and is unfit for any decent food, no matter how much some try to push it as a tradition.
Kinda like Pepperoni.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Jonathan Gress

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,805
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #136 on: October 09, 2013, 10:52:29 PM »
Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.

Offline Opus118

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,867
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #137 on: October 09, 2013, 11:56:26 PM »
It is the dream of most Orthodox Christians that Constantinople once again flourish as a Christian center city.  But let's say that re-conquering is a possiblity, what moral and ethical obligations to the Muhammadan would we have as Christians?  Could we impose Greek as the lingua franca?  Would that mean Turkish is outlawed only to be spoken in homes?  How about relocating the Turk to accomodate Christians?  Would that be moral?  Obviously we would once again pray in Hagia Sophia, but what of the cities other mosques?  Would we close some?  Turn them into Churches?  

 Just a few things to ponder, I guess...

This dream would not be accomplished as you envisioned.

It might be accomplished if circumstances were constructed that necessitated a union between Greece and Turkey. I probably could go on in more detail but there does not seem to be much interest in regard to the OP.


Offline Jonathan Gress

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,805
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #138 on: October 10, 2013, 12:28:36 AM »
The post about how the reconquest would happen when the Turks converted was the best one on this thread, and that's where it should have ended, although I do like talking about pork sandwiches.

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,122
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #139 on: October 10, 2013, 12:32:52 AM »
Bacon, I am smelling the bacon.
Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός
Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός
Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος
ἐλέησον ἡμας

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,208
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #140 on: October 10, 2013, 06:39:21 AM »
Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.

There ya go. There's a lot of native Philly food other (and better) than cheesesteaks.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline JamesR

  • Virginal Chicano Blood
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,440
  • St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!
  • Faith: Misotheistic Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #141 on: October 10, 2013, 08:33:31 AM »
Two or three ways in which it could hypothetically happen.

1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

2) The Turks convert to Eastern Orthodoxy and Constantinople naturally becomes the center of Christianity.

3) We suffer a massive genocide like the Jews with international attention and then terrorist Orthodox groups backed by the West go into Istantbul and forcibly dislocate the Turks like the Zionists did to the Palestinians, and Constantinople as well as other parts of Turkey become the Middle East's Christian State.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,113
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #142 on: October 10, 2013, 08:34:25 AM »
1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,208
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #143 on: October 10, 2013, 09:46:34 AM »
1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.

That's impossible- he must know a great deal, since he has an opinion on everything.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,234
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #144 on: October 10, 2013, 10:28:08 AM »
Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.

Italian Market is awesome, my son and family lived near there for several years, now a bit further towards Oregon and still shop there year round for meat and produce. There's a great diner there on Oregon between Broad and the I-95 called of all things, the Oregon Diner, a few blocks from the sports complex. Worth the stop. Is Samson near Oregon? I turn left on 13 I think to get to their apartment. Parking is a nightmare though.....

Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,054
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #145 on: October 10, 2013, 02:13:07 PM »
1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.

Fixed that for you, Michal.  I'm sure it was just an oversight. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline JoeS2

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,328
  • St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #146 on: October 10, 2013, 02:48:43 PM »
And it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Get over it.

I couldn't help myself.

Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

Offline JoeS2

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,328
  • St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #147 on: October 10, 2013, 02:50:02 PM »
Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.

There ya go. There's a lot of native Philly food other (and better) than cheesesteaks.

Lee's hoagies are the best including their cheesesteaks.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,234
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #148 on: October 10, 2013, 02:53:48 PM »
And it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Get over it.

I couldn't help myself.

Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

If we could get the Catholics to reconvey the Grand Mesquita of Cordoba to the Muslim infidels, maybe we could make a deal?  Just kidding folks, really..... ;D

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #149 on: October 10, 2013, 03:18:13 PM »
Looks like I am going to have to take up JamesR's banner yet again and pray he remembers my work when he is finished flaying all those who opposed him during his more humble years.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Rufus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2013, 03:28:21 PM »
1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.

What about a union between Turkey and New York? If only Woodrow Wilson had known...

Offline Nikolaos Greek

  • Last among equals
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 203
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #151 on: October 17, 2013, 09:14:17 AM »
Constantinopolis will rose again and it should be the begin for spreading Orthodoxy to the whole world before the dark times come.
God is Love.
Ό Θεός ἀγάπη ἐστί.
There is no luck, there is no fate. There are always two ways. One is God's and one is devil's. And in each step of your life you have to pick one, always.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,849
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #152 on: October 17, 2013, 11:18:42 AM »
Constantinopolis will rose again and it should be the begin for spreading Orthodoxy to the whole world before the dark times come.



Image removed for containing language that violates our rules on profane/obscene language.  -PtA
 Due to a history of being warned for using profanity, I will give you a warning.  Nevertheless, since this was an acronym, which was the first time to my knowledge that you used an acronym, I will only give a 7-day warning and quote the part of the rules dealing with obscenities/profanity given here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=rules

* Obscenity, Blasphemy, Profanity, etc. -- Obscenities and blasphemies are not permitted anywhere on the forum. To accommodate strong polemics on the Private Forum, we will permit a few of the stronger scatological (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scatological) profanities there. These words, however, will be permitted ONLY on the Private Forum; their use on the Public Forum is still forbidden. Other words such as "damn" and "hell", when used as expletives, will be permitted on all Public and Private boards as long as they're not used as part of a blasphemy. We reserve the right to moderate some language not on the list if it is way outside the bounds of common decency. If you're not sure about the appropriateness of a word or expression, please PM a moderator before using it on the forum.  Except for "BS," all acronyms (STFU, WTF, etc.), abbreviations (F-off, etc.), and semi-censored versions (F**K, BULLS**T, etc.) of forbidden words are also forbidden.  Quite simply, harsh, obscene, or foul language is not appropriate for an Orthodox Christian message board.  Our Lord is present even in the forums and we don't feel like hosting your foul language on our servers--free expression is one thing, but on a Christian message board you will have to act like a Christian even in a theoretically unmoderated sub-section of the board.

God bless!

Mina
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 05:16:07 PM by PeterTheAleut »
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,442
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #153 on: October 17, 2013, 11:19:32 AM »
 :laugh:
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #154 on: October 17, 2013, 11:30:47 AM »
Constantinopolis will rose again and it should be the begin for spreading Orthodoxy to the whole world before the dark times come.



Image removed for containing language that violates our rules on profane/obscene language.  -PtA

Η Ρωμανία κι αν 'πέρασε, ανθεί και φέρει κι άλλο...

"Even if Constantinople (Romania - the Roman Empire) is gone, it still blooms and will yet bear fruit."

 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 05:16:50 PM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline Nikolaos Greek

  • Last among equals
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 203
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #155 on: October 25, 2013, 04:51:32 PM »
I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
God is Love.
Ό Θεός ἀγάπη ἐστί.
There is no luck, there is no fate. There are always two ways. One is God's and one is devil's. And in each step of your life you have to pick one, always.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,849
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #156 on: October 28, 2013, 08:10:07 AM »
I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
Just because its a prophecy doesn't make it holy, or above criticism. Just like the two priests hidden in a wall waiting for the Hagia Sophia to be reclaimed for Christianity. IMO that is silly. They're dead and gone. Lets focus on reality.

That being said, I have been warned for my behavior, and I agree that I should have been.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Hawkeye

  • Διονύσιος ὁ Όμηρίτης
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 735
  • Venerable Gregory (Ivan Neronov)
  • Faith: More Neronov than Avvakum
  • Jurisdiction: Old Rite Chapelist
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #157 on: October 28, 2013, 08:19:33 AM »
I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
Just because its a prophecy doesn't make it holy, or above criticism. Just like the two priests hidden in a wall waiting for the Hagia Sophia to be reclaimed for Christianity. IMO that is silly. They're dead and gone. Lets focus on reality.

That being said, I have been warned for my behavior, and I agree that I should have been.

PP

If the prophecies attributed to Elder Paisios are truly his, should we so quickly put them on the same level as the legend you mentioned?

Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 08:21:21 AM by Hawkeye »
Quote from: The Life of Ivan Neronov
[Ecclesiastics] conspired against him because they hated his teaching for its zealous emphasis on proper Christian conduct: with great courage he denounced all whom he saw behaving in an ungodly fashion... [As such] he was deprived of his priestly rank, bound in iron chains, and broken down in jails.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,208
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #158 on: October 28, 2013, 08:25:56 AM »
I'm not sure if this was already linked to, but this is apropos:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/03/controversial-end-time-prophecies-by.html
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline Robert scho

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #159 on: October 28, 2013, 02:01:26 PM »
Greetings to all and may god bless you;

Constantinople, I truly believe Constantines vision before that great battle (in this sign conquer),
that our lord used him for the greater good and furtherance of Christianity in a war torn part of the world at the time-Thankyou God that Orthodoxy made it all the way to America for our hope in the calling of many to salvation and mine too.

As far as the reconstitution of the original Constantinople? wonderful thought-wouldnt be against it definitely though I'll take New Jerusalem first.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 02:10:53 PM by Robert scho »
For a Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful; and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #160 on: October 28, 2013, 07:42:06 PM »
And it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Get over it.

I couldn't help myself.

Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

And don't forget the endless arguments over liturgics should it become an Orthodox church again.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #161 on: October 28, 2013, 07:42:51 PM »
And it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Get over it.

I couldn't help myself.

Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

If we could get the Catholics to reconvey the Grand Mesquita of Cordoba to the Muslim infidels, maybe we could make a deal?  Just kidding folks, really..... ;D

It was  Christian church before the Moorish conquest. It was the church of St. Vincent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 07:47:09 PM by Shanghaiski »
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #162 on: October 28, 2013, 07:45:50 PM »
I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
Just because its a prophecy doesn't make it holy, or above criticism. Just like the two priests hidden in a wall waiting for the Hagia Sophia to be reclaimed for Christianity. IMO that is silly. They're dead and gone. Lets focus on reality.

That being said, I have been warned for my behavior, and I agree that I should have been.

PP


If the prophecies attributed to Elder Paisios are truly his, should we so quickly put them on the same level as the legend you mentioned?

Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside.

Well said.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,849
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #163 on: October 29, 2013, 07:50:20 AM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,234
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #164 on: October 29, 2013, 10:44:55 AM »
And it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. Get over it.

I couldn't help myself.

Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

If we could get the Catholics to reconvey the Grand Mesquita of Cordoba to the Muslim infidels, maybe we could make a deal?  Just kidding folks, really..... ;D

It was  Christian church before the Moorish conquest. It was the church of St. Vincent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba)

Not exactly akin to horsemen breaking through the doors, desecrating the Eucharist and massacaring the priests though...

"After the Islamic conquest of the Visigothic Kingdom, the church was divided between the Muslims and Christians. When the exiled Umayyad prince Abd al-Rahman I escaped to Spain and defeated the governor of Al-Andalus, Yusuf al-Fihri, he allowed the Christians to rebuild their ruined churches, and purchased the Christian half of the church of St. Vincent."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba

Offline Nikolaos Greek

  • Last among equals
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 203
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #165 on: November 02, 2013, 07:06:54 AM »
For what reason you find it is not smart?
Is there something impossible for God? Or do you think God always do things that look smart at our eyes?
God is Love.
Ό Θεός ἀγάπη ἐστί.
There is no luck, there is no fate. There are always two ways. One is God's and one is devil's. And in each step of your life you have to pick one, always.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,849
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #166 on: November 05, 2013, 08:30:53 AM »
Quote
Is there something impossible for God?
Nope. Not at all. However, just because someone prophesied something, does not mean it came from God....nor the Devil...just one man (a very holy man at that) saying something....sometimes a spoon is just a spoon.

Quote
Or do you think God always do things that look smart at our eyes?
No, not at all. However I think that sitting around and dreaming about Istanbul returning to Christian hands is a waste of time. If it happens, great. If not, oh well. What flag is raised over the city will not lead one person to Christ.

Stop fantasizing about trivial things and live your faith so people can see Christ in you. This whole topic is nothing but an exercise in vanity.

PP
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 08:31:33 AM by primuspilus »
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline brastaseptim

  • Protopsáltis
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 952
  • From BBC Louisiana to you, here's the morning news
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #167 on: November 05, 2013, 08:48:36 AM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.
BBC news certified; The Guardian rejected; OC.net approved.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,849
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #168 on: November 05, 2013, 10:26:38 AM »
Quote
Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does
I dont think it ever will be again. But then again, my thoughts on this and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee :)

Quote
The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU
The moment it becomes financially and politically beneficial to the EU to have Turkey as a member, they will be. If not, they wont be. Either way, the Hagia Sophia will still not be in Christian hands, and the Halki School will still be closed.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Santagranddad

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,198
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #169 on: November 05, 2013, 10:29:40 AM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,849
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #170 on: November 05, 2013, 10:33:24 AM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... :laugh:

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Math lover

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 238
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #171 on: November 08, 2013, 03:05:09 PM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.

There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Offline Math lover

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 238
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #172 on: November 08, 2013, 03:06:09 PM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... :laugh:

PP

Cyprus is entirely in Asia, yet it's in the EU.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,849
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #173 on: November 08, 2013, 03:08:33 PM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... :laugh:

PP

Cyprus is entirely in Asia, yet it's in the EU.
Cyprus has a decidedly European culture, and its place whether in Europe or Asia has been debated a very long time.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,091
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: OO - Occidental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #174 on: November 08, 2013, 03:09:33 PM »
There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Yeah, there are already 44 million.  I'm sure they won't mind a few more. ::)
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,054
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #175 on: November 08, 2013, 03:13:28 PM »
There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Since when has "allowed" seriously factored into questions like this? 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,091
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: OO - Occidental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #176 on: November 08, 2013, 03:16:37 PM »
There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Since when has "allowed" seriously factored into questions like this? 

I chuckled.

"Papers, please.  Oh, Muslim?  Hmmm, yes, we'll let you in.  Our quota is getting close, though."
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline Math lover

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 238
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #177 on: November 08, 2013, 07:36:22 PM »
There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Yeah, there are already 44 million.  I'm sure they won't mind a few more. ::)

Turkey getting into the EU means getting access to Schenghen, which will allow Turks to freely live and work in other Schenghen countries.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #178 on: November 08, 2013, 08:48:12 PM »
Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... :laugh:

PP

Cyprus is entirely in Asia, yet it's in the EU.
Cyprus has a decidedly European culture, and its place whether in Europe or Asia has been debated a very long time.

PP

Have you ever been there? Greece and Turkey and the Balkans?

I have.

Turkey is just as "European" as any of those places.

I am not necessarily for the inclusion of Turkey into the EU, in fact, I said long ago they never should have let Greece in. It is no wonder the place is a drag that it has been on the EU.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 08:48:40 PM by orthonorm »
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,549
  • Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)
Re: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications
« Reply #179 on: November 09, 2013, 01:09:14 AM »
This thread is getting very close to becoming political.  Please get back to the topic and try not to talk about politics.

Thank you.

Mina
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.