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Author Topic: The Re-Conquering of Constantinopolis - Ethical/Moral Implications  (Read 4636 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #135 on: October 09, 2013, 08:15:57 PM »

Cheese whiz is nasty and is unfit for any decent food, no matter how much some try to push it as a tradition.
Kinda like Pepperoni.
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« Reply #136 on: October 09, 2013, 10:52:29 PM »

Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.
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« Reply #137 on: October 09, 2013, 11:56:26 PM »

It is the dream of most Orthodox Christians that Constantinople once again flourish as a Christian center city.  But let's say that re-conquering is a possiblity, what moral and ethical obligations to the Muhammadan would we have as Christians?  Could we impose Greek as the lingua franca?  Would that mean Turkish is outlawed only to be spoken in homes?  How about relocating the Turk to accomodate Christians?  Would that be moral?  Obviously we would once again pray in Hagia Sophia, but what of the cities other mosques?  Would we close some?  Turn them into Churches?  

 Just a few things to ponder, I guess...

This dream would not be accomplished as you envisioned.

It might be accomplished if circumstances were constructed that necessitated a union between Greece and Turkey. I probably could go on in more detail but there does not seem to be much interest in regard to the OP.

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« Reply #138 on: October 10, 2013, 12:28:36 AM »

The post about how the reconquest would happen when the Turks converted was the best one on this thread, and that's where it should have ended, although I do like talking about pork sandwiches.
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« Reply #139 on: October 10, 2013, 12:32:52 AM »

Bacon, I am smelling the bacon.
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« Reply #140 on: October 10, 2013, 06:39:21 AM »

Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.

There ya go. There's a lot of native Philly food other (and better) than cheesesteaks.
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« Reply #141 on: October 10, 2013, 08:33:31 AM »

Two or three ways in which it could hypothetically happen.

1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

2) The Turks convert to Eastern Orthodoxy and Constantinople naturally becomes the center of Christianity.

3) We suffer a massive genocide like the Jews with international attention and then terrorist Orthodox groups backed by the West go into Istantbul and forcibly dislocate the Turks like the Zionists did to the Palestinians, and Constantinople as well as other parts of Turkey become the Middle East's Christian State.
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« Reply #142 on: October 10, 2013, 08:34:25 AM »

1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.
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« Reply #143 on: October 10, 2013, 09:46:34 AM »

1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.

That's impossible- he must know a great deal, since he has an opinion on everything.
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« Reply #144 on: October 10, 2013, 10:28:08 AM »

Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.

Italian Market is awesome, my son and family lived near there for several years, now a bit further towards Oregon and still shop there year round for meat and produce. There's a great diner there on Oregon between Broad and the I-95 called of all things, the Oregon Diner, a few blocks from the sports complex. Worth the stop. Is Samson near Oregon? I turn left on 13 I think to get to their apartment. Parking is a nightmare though.....
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« Reply #145 on: October 10, 2013, 02:13:07 PM »

1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.

Fixed that for you, Michal.  I'm sure it was just an oversight. 
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« Reply #146 on: October 10, 2013, 02:48:43 PM »


Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.
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« Reply #147 on: October 10, 2013, 02:50:02 PM »

Next time you visit Philly, don't bother with cheesesteaks; you can get those anywhere nowadays. Get a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone and "greens" (broccoli rabe). There's a great sandwich place at 12th and Sansom called Jake's. Also try the Italian Market.

There ya go. There's a lot of native Philly food other (and better) than cheesesteaks.

Lee's hoagies are the best including their cheesesteaks.
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« Reply #148 on: October 10, 2013, 02:53:48 PM »


Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

If we could get the Catholics to reconvey the Grand Mesquita of Cordoba to the Muslim infidels, maybe we could make a deal?  Just kidding folks, really..... Grin
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« Reply #149 on: October 10, 2013, 03:18:13 PM »

Looks like I am going to have to take up JamesR's banner yet again and pray he remembers my work when he is finished flaying all those who opposed him during his more humble years.
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« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2013, 03:28:21 PM »

1) The most likely way would be if Greece and Turkey formed a union with each other, which, I guess is possibly given that Turkey REAALLY wants into the E.U. and would probably do something drastic like giving the Hagia Sophia back to Christians as a way of proving their loyalty and apologizing for crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire.

You understand nothing about Euorpean history nor politics.

What about a union between Turkey and New York? If only Woodrow Wilson had known...
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« Reply #151 on: October 17, 2013, 09:14:17 AM »

Constantinopolis will rose again and it should be the begin for spreading Orthodoxy to the whole world before the dark times come.
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« Reply #152 on: October 17, 2013, 11:18:42 AM »

Constantinopolis will rose again and it should be the begin for spreading Orthodoxy to the whole world before the dark times come.



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« Reply #153 on: October 17, 2013, 11:19:32 AM »

 laugh
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« Reply #154 on: October 17, 2013, 11:30:47 AM »

Constantinopolis will rose again and it should be the begin for spreading Orthodoxy to the whole world before the dark times come.



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« Reply #155 on: October 25, 2013, 04:51:32 PM »

I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
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« Reply #156 on: October 28, 2013, 08:10:07 AM »

I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
Just because its a prophecy doesn't make it holy, or above criticism. Just like the two priests hidden in a wall waiting for the Hagia Sophia to be reclaimed for Christianity. IMO that is silly. They're dead and gone. Lets focus on reality.

That being said, I have been warned for my behavior, and I agree that I should have been.

PP
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« Reply #157 on: October 28, 2013, 08:19:33 AM »

I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
Just because its a prophecy doesn't make it holy, or above criticism. Just like the two priests hidden in a wall waiting for the Hagia Sophia to be reclaimed for Christianity. IMO that is silly. They're dead and gone. Lets focus on reality.

That being said, I have been warned for my behavior, and I agree that I should have been.

PP

If the prophecies attributed to Elder Paisios are truly his, should we so quickly put them on the same level as the legend you mentioned?

Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside.
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« Reply #158 on: October 28, 2013, 08:25:56 AM »

I'm not sure if this was already linked to, but this is apropos:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/03/controversial-end-time-prophecies-by.html
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« Reply #159 on: October 28, 2013, 02:01:26 PM »

Greetings to all and may god bless you;

Constantinople, I truly believe Constantines vision before that great battle (in this sign conquer),
that our lord used him for the greater good and furtherance of Christianity in a war torn part of the world at the time-Thankyou God that Orthodoxy made it all the way to America for our hope in the calling of many to salvation and mine too.

As far as the reconstitution of the original Constantinople? wonderful thought-wouldnt be against it definitely though I'll take New Jerusalem first.
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« Reply #160 on: October 28, 2013, 07:42:06 PM »


Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

And don't forget the endless arguments over liturgics should it become an Orthodox church again.
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« Reply #161 on: October 28, 2013, 07:42:51 PM »


Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

If we could get the Catholics to reconvey the Grand Mesquita of Cordoba to the Muslim infidels, maybe we could make a deal?  Just kidding folks, really..... Grin

It was  Christian church before the Moorish conquest. It was the church of St. Vincent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba)
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« Reply #162 on: October 28, 2013, 07:45:50 PM »

I know it from prophesies and I don't think is appropriate to use bad words
Just because its a prophecy doesn't make it holy, or above criticism. Just like the two priests hidden in a wall waiting for the Hagia Sophia to be reclaimed for Christianity. IMO that is silly. They're dead and gone. Lets focus on reality.

That being said, I have been warned for my behavior, and I agree that I should have been.

PP


If the prophecies attributed to Elder Paisios are truly his, should we so quickly put them on the same level as the legend you mentioned?

Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside.

Well said.
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« Reply #163 on: October 29, 2013, 07:50:20 AM »

Quote
Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP
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« Reply #164 on: October 29, 2013, 10:44:55 AM »


Is it that important that the Orthodox reclaim the Hagia Sophia?  We like to point to it and claim it the most beautiful church in Christiandom, at least at one time, but do we really expect the Turks to return his Islamic prize to us?  Secondly, who will pay for it's upkeep.  Right now the government of Turkey is rejuvenating it from time to time to keep it from deterioration.  Its cheaper to just point.

If we could get the Catholics to reconvey the Grand Mesquita of Cordoba to the Muslim infidels, maybe we could make a deal?  Just kidding folks, really..... Grin

It was  Christian church before the Moorish conquest. It was the church of St. Vincent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba)

Not exactly akin to horsemen breaking through the doors, desecrating the Eucharist and massacaring the priests though...

"After the Islamic conquest of the Visigothic Kingdom, the church was divided between the Muslims and Christians. When the exiled Umayyad prince Abd al-Rahman I escaped to Spain and defeated the governor of Al-Andalus, Yusuf al-Fihri, he allowed the Christians to rebuild their ruined churches, and purchased the Christian half of the church of St. Vincent."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba
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« Reply #165 on: November 02, 2013, 07:06:54 AM »

For what reason you find it is not smart?
Is there something impossible for God? Or do you think God always do things that look smart at our eyes?
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« Reply #166 on: November 05, 2013, 08:30:53 AM »

Quote
Is there something impossible for God?
Nope. Not at all. However, just because someone prophesied something, does not mean it came from God....nor the Devil...just one man (a very holy man at that) saying something....sometimes a spoon is just a spoon.

Quote
Or do you think God always do things that look smart at our eyes?
No, not at all. However I think that sitting around and dreaming about Istanbul returning to Christian hands is a waste of time. If it happens, great. If not, oh well. What flag is raised over the city will not lead one person to Christ.

Stop fantasizing about trivial things and live your faith so people can see Christ in you. This whole topic is nothing but an exercise in vanity.

PP
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« Reply #167 on: November 05, 2013, 08:48:36 AM »

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Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.
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« Reply #168 on: November 05, 2013, 10:26:38 AM »

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Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does
I dont think it ever will be again. But then again, my thoughts on this and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee Smiley

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The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU
The moment it becomes financially and politically beneficial to the EU to have Turkey as a member, they will be. If not, they wont be. Either way, the Hagia Sophia will still not be in Christian hands, and the Halki School will still be closed.

PP
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« Reply #169 on: November 05, 2013, 10:29:40 AM »

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Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
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« Reply #170 on: November 05, 2013, 10:33:24 AM »

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Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... laugh

PP
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« Reply #171 on: November 08, 2013, 03:05:09 PM »

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Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.

There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.
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« Reply #172 on: November 08, 2013, 03:06:09 PM »

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Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... laugh

PP

Cyprus is entirely in Asia, yet it's in the EU.
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« Reply #173 on: November 08, 2013, 03:08:33 PM »

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Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... laugh

PP

Cyprus is entirely in Asia, yet it's in the EU.
Cyprus has a decidedly European culture, and its place whether in Europe or Asia has been debated a very long time.

PP
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« Reply #174 on: November 08, 2013, 03:09:33 PM »

There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Yeah, there are already 44 million.  I'm sure they won't mind a few more. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #175 on: November 08, 2013, 03:13:28 PM »

There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Since when has "allowed" seriously factored into questions like this? 
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« Reply #176 on: November 08, 2013, 03:16:37 PM »

There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Since when has "allowed" seriously factored into questions like this? 

I chuckled.

"Papers, please.  Oh, Muslim?  Hmmm, yes, we'll let you in.  Our quota is getting close, though."
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« Reply #177 on: November 08, 2013, 07:36:22 PM »

There's no way in Hell 70 million Muslims will be allowed inside Europe.

Yeah, there are already 44 million.  I'm sure they won't mind a few more. Roll Eyes

Turkey getting into the EU means getting access to Schenghen, which will allow Turks to freely live and work in other Schenghen countries.
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« Reply #178 on: November 08, 2013, 08:48:12 PM »

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Personally, I feel that we should pay little heed to prophecies, no matter whose they are. That doesn't mean, however, that we should disparage them willy-nilly but rather simply set them aside
Sorry, I just find such prophecies to be rather silly. However, if it was a prophecy just speaking about how the Hagia Sophia would one day return to Christian hands and it would usher in a Golden Age of evangelism, that I could get behind.

However priests hiding in walls, etc? Sorry. I find it silly.

PP

Personally speaking, I think it'll be a while before Constantinople becomes the center of Orthodoxy again, if it does. The Turks aren't that desperate to get into the EU, and besides, the upkeep of the Hagia Sofia is a bit pricey.

And it has to said that there a range of constituencies across the EU that are opposed to Turkey's proposed EU entry.
Im glad. I'd hate to be the guy having to order new business cards changing the European Union to the European and-sometimes-Asian Union..... laugh

PP

Cyprus is entirely in Asia, yet it's in the EU.
Cyprus has a decidedly European culture, and its place whether in Europe or Asia has been debated a very long time.

PP

Have you ever been there? Greece and Turkey and the Balkans?

I have.

Turkey is just as "European" as any of those places.

I am not necessarily for the inclusion of Turkey into the EU, in fact, I said long ago they never should have let Greece in. It is no wonder the place is a drag that it has been on the EU.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 08:48:40 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #179 on: November 09, 2013, 01:09:14 AM »

This thread is getting very close to becoming political.  Please get back to the topic and try not to talk about politics.

Thank you.

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