Author Topic: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?  (Read 7881 times)

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #180 on: October 10, 2013, 12:15:29 AM »
We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.
Because this has worked out so well in the past up until now...We have people within the Church who blasphemy and practice sacrilege daily.  People already understand, which is why they choose the methods they choose.

Use their own weapons against them.  I agree with JG's post completely.  He has his thinking cap on today.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 12:17:43 AM by Kerdy »

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #181 on: October 10, 2013, 12:18:33 AM »
We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.
Because this has worked out so well in the past up until now...

Use their own weapons against them.  I agree with JG's post completely.  He has his thinking cap on today.

I don't think he has any other cap and never takes it off.

Really Kerdy, even when he is wrong, unlike yourself, it is apparent he has done more than a little thinking though the issues. He is probably constitutionally incapable of doing otherwise.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #182 on: October 10, 2013, 12:20:54 AM »
If only more people were capable of thinking their way out of a wet paper bag.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #183 on: October 10, 2013, 12:21:37 AM »
We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.

If you make it illegal and punish people for thinking it, it will become unthinkable. It's worked so well for racism, after all. But sure, try evangelism, too. Probably can't hurt.

The problem is some of us are still thinking of ourselves as the outraged majority Christian population. That's just asking to be licked. Instead, it's all about minority rights these days. We Orthodox already have some of our work done for us: we're a minority, and crucially, we're not Western. Sure the Christian bit doesn't help, but just emphasize how un-Western we are and that should do it. Bonus points for showing how we're victims of Orientalism/colonialism. Don't talk about how blaspheming the Cross offends ordinary human decency; talk about how it offends our traditions and culture, which have already been oppressed by the West in so many ways.

Soon they won't be talking about stealth sharia, but about stealth canons!

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #184 on: October 10, 2013, 12:25:20 AM »
If only more people were capable of thinking their way out of a wet paper bag.

Kerdy, one liners aren't supposed to suggest one is unable to think beyond 45 syllables.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #185 on: October 10, 2013, 12:33:49 AM »
We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.

If you make it illegal and punish people for thinking it, it will become unthinkable. It's worked so well for racism, after all. But sure, try evangelism, too. Probably can't hurt.

The problem is some of us are still thinking of ourselves as the outraged majority Christian population. That's just asking to be licked. Instead, it's all about minority rights these days. We Orthodox already have some of our work done for us: we're a minority, and crucially, we're not Western. Sure the Christian bit doesn't help, but just emphasize how un-Western we are and that should do it. Bonus points for showing how we're victims of Orientalism/colonialism. Don't talk about how blaspheming the Cross offends ordinary human decency; talk about how it offends our traditions and culture, which have already been oppressed by the West in so many ways.

Soon they won't be talking about stealth sharia, but about stealth canons!
That would be interesting, but I imagine many even within the Church would protest.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #186 on: October 10, 2013, 01:41:47 AM »
We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.

If you make it illegal and punish people for thinking it, it will become unthinkable. It's worked so well for racism, after all. But sure, try evangelism, too. Probably can't hurt.

What? That's not what I meant. I meant if you evangelize people effectively they'll see on their own why blasphemy and sacrilege are wrong, and either never think of doing such thing in the first place, or come to repentance for having done/thought them. It's not about making thoughts a crime.

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The problem is some of us are still thinking of ourselves as the outraged majority Christian population. That's just asking to be licked. Instead, it's all about minority rights these days. We Orthodox already have some of our work done for us: we're a minority, and crucially, we're not Western.

Speak for yourself; I'm western and Orthodox (not to be confused with "Western Orthodox").

Quote
Sure the Christian bit doesn't help, but just emphasize how un-Western we are and that should do it. Bonus points for showing how we're victims of Orientalism/colonialism. Don't talk about how blaspheming the Cross offends ordinary human decency; talk about how it offends our traditions and culture, which have already been oppressed by the West in so many ways.

Soon they won't be talking about stealth sharia, but about stealth canons!

Cute, but I think winning a game of sympathy bingo would over time come to backfire on us. There are fashions of thought, after all, and eventually Eastern Christianity would be out and something else would sweep in and we would all be compelled to treat that as sacred instead, no matter how awful it is. Who could have imagined 100-200 years ago that there would be washrooms specifically designed for muslims to perform their ablutions on many college campuses, for instance? I for one don't want to be patronized for belonging to a non-Western church so much as I want to see equal rights exist in practice irregardless of religion, not the current mess where all are equal but some are more equal than others. I don't think you get that by saying "But we're not Westerners, either, so we deserve to be treated with the same genteelness with which you treat Muslims!" We're not as weak as Muslims, for one thing. We don't need to be treated like special little snowflakes, or for everyone to tip-toe around our religion under threat of violence. In fact (and I've written as much before on this board), I think that could do more to bring people to the defense of Orthodox Christianity (and possible conversion to it) than any attempt to paint ourselves as "other" than the West: That we have a religion that is every bit as serious and sacred as the other major non-Western religion is to its own followers, but that doesn't involve having to make laws to protect our oh-so-sensitive feelings, and you'll probably never have to worry about an Orthodox Middle Easterner killing you (unless you're Bobby Kennedy, I guess), and we're not keen on fetishizing the lifestyles of the nomadic and illiterate. I would think that these are things that most in the West would be able to appreciate, given the alternative, and they're not dependent on whoever can make themselves seem more pathetic in the eyes of patronizing PC westerners (which I guarantee you is a game that the followers of Muhammad will win every single time; it's practically in their DNA by this point...we ought not even try to play).


Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #187 on: October 10, 2013, 02:09:07 AM »
OK I was being sarcastic for the most part, which was probably not a good thing, so I apologize for scandalizing you. But I did start thinking about this somewhat seriously, and especially on how liberals get very confused about, e.g. Muslim women who apparently freely choose to wear modest clothing/hijab. I figured that you can fly under the PC radar if you identify as a minority culture; ethnic minorities get at least a certain degree of protection from the general assault on traditional values. Simply market your traditional values as minority values and you'll do OK. Minority status has more cachet if you're not of Western European origin, or if your faith isn't at any rate.

Also, your full-throated defense of the freedom to offend and be offended would sound great at a Libertarian Party convention, but it's not the way we dealt with dissent back when we had Orthodox rulers. Issues were kept simple back then: Christianity was right, everything else was wrong. That means on the one hand that Christians would rather die than apostasize, but it also meant that, once in charge, we didn't care about the sensibilities of Jews and pagans.

But every age is going to have its orthodoxies and its heresies. These days it's a heresy for a Westerner to believe men and women have different assigned roles in society, but if you make it clear that you are e.g. a Muslim, to whom Western values like gender equality don't apply, then you can get away with things like head-coverings and 70 virgin houris in paradise. I'm saying that maybe we can adapt to the political Zeitgeist just enough for self-protection; think of it as rendering to Caesar.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:11:39 AM by Jonathan Gress »

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #188 on: October 10, 2013, 02:22:10 AM »
OK I was being sarcastic for the most part, which was probably not a good thing, so I apologize for scandalizing you. But I did start thinking about this somewhat seriously, and especially on how liberals get very confused about, e.g. Muslim women who apparently freely choose to wear modest clothing/hijab. I figured that you can fly under the PC radar if you identify as a minority culture; ethnic minorities get at least a certain degree of protection from the general assault on traditional values. Simply market your traditional values as minority values and you'll do OK. Minority status has more cachet if you're not of Western European origin, or if your faith isn't at any rate.

You're probably right, but my point was that I'd rather evangelize than revel in being a religious minority.

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Also, your full-throated defense of the freedom to offend and be offended would sound great at a Libertarian Party convention, but it's not the way we dealt with dissent back when we had Orthodox rulers.


Who's this "we" -- you got the Hagia Sophia in your pocket?

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Issues were kept simple back then: Christianity was right, everything else was wrong. That means on the one hand that Christians would rather die than apostasize, but it also meant that, once in charge, we didn't care about the sensibilities of Jews and pagans.

Hmm. I'm not sure things like St. Basil's treatise on the use of pagan literature by Christians (4th century) completely fit in with your characterization of the relationship between Orthodoxy and paganism, but okay. How you have presented things certainly is simple, anyway.

Quote
But every age is going to have its orthodoxies and its heresies. These days it's a heresy for a Westerner to believe men and women have different assigned roles in society, but if you make it clear that you are e.g. a Muslim, to whom Western values like gender equality don't apply, then you can get away with things like head-coverings


Nothing is wrong with headcoverings. Just ask your local older Tewahedo ladies.

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and 70 virgin houris in paradise.


Whereas this is just a lack of foresight on Ar-Rahman's part...
 
Quote
I'm saying that maybe we can adapt to the political Zeitgeist just enough for self-protection; think of it as rendering to Caesar.

Hmm...I don't see how that is rendering unto Caesar, but okay.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #189 on: October 10, 2013, 02:34:09 AM »
If only more people were capable of thinking their way out of a wet paper bag.
Let me think about this a bit...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:46:41 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #190 on: October 10, 2013, 02:38:55 AM »
No I don't have Hagia Sophia in my pocket, although I do know where you can visit a miniature version not too long from now:

http://www.ascensionmonastery.org/hagia-sophia/

I was thinking about things like the Theodosian decrees on pagan sacrifice and public worship and the various legal burdens put on pagans and Jews. True they were never completely outlawed, but we didn't say "well we Orthodox are strong enough to deal with criticism"; we said "we Orthodox now wield the temporal sword, so you pagan and Jewish losers better do as you're told." Tolerance is a sucker's game, and liberals know this all too well, which is why they don't tolerate dissent from their own orthodoxy. When you're in power, you use it or you lose it.

I think what St Basil says about Greek literature is quite compatible. Even losers can write great literature. The Muslims thought so, too.

I agree that identifying as a minority can have drawbacks, since Orthodoxy is still, supposedly, an evangelical faith. But Muslims and Buddhists have won Western converts, and many Westerners are attracted to them because they're alien and exotic. I admit that was part of my initial attraction to Orthodoxy, and we can certainly play up our non-Westernness at times (e.g. Western Christianity is awful because it teaches inherited guilt, or has lost a sense of mysticism, etc).

I move in very liberal circles, and when you bring up family values, our Christian heritage etc that just turns them off completely and makes them hostile. When you present your faith as something different from this heritage, they are more open and accepting. The thing is that liberals are possessed by a pathological cultural self-hatred, directed at their own religious background. Whereas in just about every other evangelical situation in history, Christian missionaries have tried to accommodate Christian doctrine to local cultural sensibilities where possible, among modern liberals, the last thing you want to do is show them how Orthodoxy is similar to the Christianity of their immediate ancestors.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:40:14 AM by Jonathan Gress »

Offline mike

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #191 on: October 10, 2013, 06:46:43 AM »
We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

When RCs claim they are the true Church is this blasphemy that should be penalised? And how to do that in a 90%+ RC country?
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #192 on: October 10, 2013, 08:25:54 AM »
We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

When RCs claim they are the true Church is this blasphemy that should be penalised? And how to do that in a 90%+ RC country?

Michal hits the issue head on with his response. How do you define "blasphemy" to the point where it is enforceable while remaining meaningful? In Poland and Russia it might be defined using similar terms, but in reality it would mean two very different things. From some Orthodox points of view many Protestant, Adventist, JW's,  Mormons and others regularly blaspheme as they might define blasphemy in say Byzantine imperial terms. As a minority within what is today a religious minority in post modern America (people actually practicing a Faith) I don't see this as a course of action that would actually be beneficial, let alone be doable.

In practical terms defying blasphemy might be as elusive as defining pornography. As one Supreme Court Justice famously observed, you know it when you see it. But a definition which captures host or cross desecration might capture you if you were to opine that RCC sacraments are graceless or denounce the veneration of "paint and wood" or speculate about the physical attributes of Jesus or publish a tract explaining the theological errors found in other faiths.

Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

Offline jah777

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #193 on: October 10, 2013, 08:26:26 AM »
liberals are possessed by a pathological cultural self-hatred, directed at their own religious background.

This is an important observation deserving of great attention as to how our society has developed to this point.  The pathological self-hatred is not just directed towards one's own religious background but racial, cultural, etc.  As an example, one can speak quite freely of "African American solidarity" in our society as this concept has a great deal of support and acceptance; whereas mention of "white solidarity" is immediately perceived as racist, hateful, detestable, etc.  We celebrate "Black History Month" but have no month dedicated to "White History".  We have a "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)", but could you imagine if we had a "National Association for the Advancement of White People"?!  In our society we have been conditioned to praise non-whites for racially-based programs, organizations, schools, etc.; but whites are considered the lowest scum on the planet if they propose racially-based anything.  Unfortunately, in American society very few "whites" have any understanding of or appreciation for their own cultural heritage because we are taught that attention to this is insensitive to non-whites, while the respect of minorities for their heritage is applauded as noble and praiseworthy.  This is quite a phenomenon, and the mechanisms and processes in society that have led to this state of affairs is worthy of a great deal of attention, though it is likely to receive none.  

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #194 on: October 10, 2013, 08:37:37 AM »
I think the best way to resolve this issue is for every Orthodox Christian to go purchase a scimitar and slaughter any blasphemers that we come in contact with.  Here is a nice one for $39.99.  I figure we should all get the same one for stylistic purposes.

http://www.swordsdirect.com/undead-scimitar-swords.html

Scoring is thusly:

Trinitarian blasphemers and heretics 1pt
Non Trinitarian blasphemers and heretics 2pts
Atheists 100pts
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #195 on: October 10, 2013, 08:41:42 AM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #196 on: October 10, 2013, 08:42:56 AM »
I'm more partial to the claymore:

http://www.swordsdirect.com/claymore-swords-small.html
psht.  It was born of western apostacy.
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline hecma925

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« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 08:47:57 AM by hecma925 »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #198 on: October 10, 2013, 08:49:07 AM »
True.  We need to use spathion - the standard weapon of 9th century Byzantine Empire.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 08:51:27 AM by TheTrisagion »
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #199 on: October 10, 2013, 08:52:14 AM »
Yeah, I wouldn't want to get stabbed with that.  In fact, come to think of it, I would not want to get stabbed at all.  Ever.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #200 on: October 10, 2013, 08:53:34 AM »
Yeah, I wouldn't want to get stabbed with that.  In fact, come to think of it, I would not want to get stabbed at all.  Ever.
Easy solution, don't become a blasphemer or heretic.  ;D

As they say out on the range: "Don't mess with the bull or you'll get the horn."
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #201 on: October 10, 2013, 09:03:26 AM »
Yeah, I wouldn't want to get stabbed with that.  In fact, come to think of it, I would not want to get stabbed at all.  Ever.
Easy solution, don't become a blasphemer or heretic.  ;D

As they say out on the range: "Don't mess with the bull or you'll get the horn."

Like this?

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #202 on: October 10, 2013, 12:00:52 PM »
I think the best way to resolve this issue is for every Orthodox Christian to go purchase a scimitar and slaughter any blasphemers that we come in contact with...I figure we should all get the same one for stylistic purposes.

While I like the scimitar, I prefer a bat'leth.  The former might be more efficient for beheadings, but the latter is just all sorts of fierce. 
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #203 on: October 10, 2013, 12:13:10 PM »
I think the best way to resolve this issue is for every Orthodox Christian to go purchase a scimitar and slaughter any blasphemers that we come in contact with...I figure we should all get the same one for stylistic purposes.

While I like the scimitar, I prefer a bat'leth.  The former might be more efficient for beheadings, but the latter is just all sorts of fierce. 

My fantasy geek self wants an arakh. Though I can't even sit a horse, let alone ride it... Perhaps I should downsize to a bolline?



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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #204 on: October 10, 2013, 07:04:43 PM »
The hope of the Church dwindles daily as a result of the diminished passion and conviction of Gods people.  When faith became a game, Satan won a great victory over man.  When people forgot faithful isn't the same thing as "spiritual", he won another victory.  Pray for the Church.  Pray that this cancer spreads no further, that it isn't terminal so that Orthodoxy doesn't go the way of modern Christianity and become completely deficient losing all influence, the direction it is currently headed.  Pray the hearts of the Orthodox people will no longer be hardened and their minds will be cleared of the fog they have allowed the world to place in them which clouds their judgement.  Pray they will realize it is not a game.  Pray before its too late and those people turn Orthodoxy into the lukewarm apostasy the world wants it to be.  Let them see the reason people convert to Orthodoxy, because it is the True Faith, the true Church, because it is unchanged (or it was).  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian.  Pray the heart of Orthodoxy is not reflective of the unbelievable ignorance spewed in these threads.  Pray God will send those people elsewhere to deny their defilement of His Church or else lead His people to a place they can truly worship as He desires.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #205 on: October 10, 2013, 07:12:03 PM »
Pray the hearts of the Orthodox people will no longer be hardened and their minds will be cleared of the fog they have allowed the world to place in them which clouds their judgement.  Pray they will realize it is not a game.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #206 on: October 10, 2013, 09:23:31 PM »
....  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian. 

Is such a thing possible?   ???

You're basing this "prayer" on a bunch of silliness on an Internet forum?   ???


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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #207 on: October 10, 2013, 09:26:33 PM »
....  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian. 

Is such a thing possible?   ???

You're basing this "prayer" on a bunch of silliness on an Internet forum?   ???


Did you not know that oc.net is an exact mirror of the health of the Orthodox Church across the world?  Every time you post a silly comment, 6 million people apostasize.
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #208 on: October 10, 2013, 09:32:01 PM »
The hope of the Church dwindles daily as a result of the diminished passion and conviction of Gods people.  When faith became a game, Satan won a great victory over man.  When people forgot faithful isn't the same thing as "spiritual", he won another victory.  Pray for the Church.  Pray that this cancer spreads no further, that it isn't terminal so that Orthodoxy doesn't go the way of modern Christianity and become completely deficient losing all influence, the direction it is currently headed.  Pray the hearts of the Orthodox people will no longer be hardened and their minds will be cleared of the fog they have allowed the world to place in them which clouds their judgement.  Pray they will realize it is not a game.  Pray before its too late and those people turn Orthodoxy into the lukewarm apostasy the world wants it to be.  Let them see the reason people convert to Orthodoxy, because it is the True Faith, the true Church, because it is unchanged (or it was).  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian.  Pray the heart of Orthodoxy is not reflective of the unbelievable ignorance spewed in these threads.  Pray God will send those people elsewhere to deny their defilement of His Church or else lead His people to a place they can truly worship as He desires.
I can't imagine what dinner is like in your household.
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Offline mike

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #209 on: October 10, 2013, 09:33:39 PM »
We have people within the Church who blasphemy and practice sacrilege daily.  People already understand, which is why they choose the methods they choose.

Who?
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #210 on: October 10, 2013, 09:38:34 PM »
....  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian. 

Is such a thing possible?   ???

You're basing this "prayer" on a bunch of silliness on an Internet forum?   ???


Did you not know that oc.net is an exact mirror of the health of the Orthodox Church across the world?  Every time you post a silly comment, 6 million people apostasize.

If I decided to order such a burger as described in the OP, I would discard the communion wafer.  I stuck to the OP.   :angel:

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #211 on: October 10, 2013, 09:47:17 PM »
The hope of the Church dwindles daily as a result of the diminished passion and conviction of Gods people.  When faith became a game, Satan won a great victory over man.  When people forgot faithful isn't the same thing as "spiritual", he won another victory.  Pray for the Church.  Pray that this cancer spreads no further, that it isn't terminal so that Orthodoxy doesn't go the way of modern Christianity and become completely deficient losing all influence, the direction it is currently headed.  Pray the hearts of the Orthodox people will no longer be hardened and their minds will be cleared of the fog they have allowed the world to place in them which clouds their judgement.  Pray they will realize it is not a game.  Pray before its too late and those people turn Orthodoxy into the lukewarm apostasy the world wants it to be.  Let them see the reason people convert to Orthodoxy, because it is the True Faith, the true Church, because it is unchanged (or it was).  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian.  Pray the heart of Orthodoxy is not reflective of the unbelievable ignorance spewed in these threads.  Pray God will send those people elsewhere to deny their defilement of His Church or else lead His people to a place they can truly worship as He desires.
I can't imagine what dinner is like in your household.

I can: Hilarious.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #212 on: October 10, 2013, 10:04:29 PM »
The hope of the Church dwindles daily as a result of the diminished passion and conviction of Gods people.  When faith became a game, Satan won a great victory over man.  When people forgot faithful isn't the same thing as "spiritual", he won another victory.  Pray for the Church.  Pray that this cancer spreads no further, that it isn't terminal so that Orthodoxy doesn't go the way of modern Christianity and become completely deficient losing all influence, the direction it is currently headed.  Pray the hearts of the Orthodox people will no longer be hardened and their minds will be cleared of the fog they have allowed the world to place in them which clouds their judgement.  Pray they will realize it is not a game.  Pray before its too late and those people turn Orthodoxy into the lukewarm apostasy the world wants it to be.  Let them see the reason people convert to Orthodoxy, because it is the True Faith, the true Church, because it is unchanged (or it was).  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian.  Pray the heart of Orthodoxy is not reflective of the unbelievable ignorance spewed in these threads.  Pray God will send those people elsewhere to deny their defilement of His Church or else lead His people to a place they can truly worship as He desires.
I can't imagine what dinner is like in your household.

I can: Hilarious.
Probably has a pulpit at the end of his dinner table. With an American flag.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #213 on: October 11, 2013, 12:30:20 AM »
The hope of the Church dwindles daily as a result of the diminished passion and conviction of Gods people.  When faith became a game, Satan won a great victory over man.  When people forgot faithful isn't the same thing as "spiritual", he won another victory.  Pray for the Church.  Pray that this cancer spreads no further, that it isn't terminal so that Orthodoxy doesn't go the way of modern Christianity and become completely deficient losing all influence, the direction it is currently headed.  Pray the hearts of the Orthodox people will no longer be hardened and their minds will be cleared of the fog they have allowed the world to place in them which clouds their judgement.  Pray they will realize it is not a game.  Pray before its too late and those people turn Orthodoxy into the lukewarm apostasy the world wants it to be.  Let them see the reason people convert to Orthodoxy, because it is the True Faith, the true Church, because it is unchanged (or it was).  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian.  Pray the heart of Orthodoxy is not reflective of the unbelievable ignorance spewed in these threads.  Pray God will send those people elsewhere to deny their defilement of His Church or else lead His people to a place they can truly worship as He desires.
I can't imagine what dinner is like in your household.

I can: Hilarious.
Probably has a pulpit at the end of his dinner table. With an American flag.

LOL!
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #214 on: October 11, 2013, 12:45:37 AM »
Did you not know that oc.net is an exact mirror of the health of the Orthodox Church across the world?  Every time you post a silly comment, 6 million people apostasize kittens die.

Pity the kittens.  Put on dispassion and sobriety. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #215 on: October 11, 2013, 05:11:38 AM »
And with each post you do nothing but prove yourselves, reveal your hearts and minds so that others easily identify you.  I'm certain you are proud of this.

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #216 on: October 11, 2013, 05:13:49 AM »
....  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian.  

Is such a thing possible?   ???

You're basing this "prayer" on a bunch of silliness on an Internet forum?   ???


Yes it is possible.  Everything has a beginning.  Either the fire can be extinguished or fuel can be added.

What many seem not to notice is this place is a direct reflection of the Church, not just locally in some backwoods place, but globally.  With the smugness and deliberate ignorance displayed here, how much more is it displayed in the homes, around close friends, to family, etc.?  Too many people here rely on their own warped and feeble ideas of what should or should not be, what is or is not important rather than hold fast to 2000 years of doctrine and Tradition, the very things which draw interest from those seeking.  What will they find?  The unchanging original Church or some modernized version of self church?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 05:32:55 AM by Kerdy »

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #217 on: October 11, 2013, 05:19:40 AM »
....  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian. 

Is such a thing possible?   ???

You're basing this "prayer" on a bunch of silliness on an Internet forum?   ???


Did you not know that oc.net is an exact mirror of the health of the Orthodox Church across the world?  Every time you post a silly comment, 6 million people apostasize.
When people who do not know better think they have learned something good and right from those who teach incorrectly or teach nothing at all, it harms them and the Church as a whole.  Many come here to learn of Orthodoxy and instead see childishness.  What good does that do them or the Church? 

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #218 on: October 11, 2013, 05:28:04 AM »
....  Pray the Orthodox people stop it's destruction from the inside.  If this does not happen, it will eventually become no different than any other heartless group calling themselves Christian. 

Is such a thing possible?   ???

You're basing this "prayer" on a bunch of silliness on an Internet forum?   ???


Did you not know that oc.net is an exact mirror of the health of the Orthodox Church across the world?  Every time you post a silly comment, 6 million people apostasize.
When people who do not know better think they have learned something good and right from those who teach incorrectly or teach nothing at all, it harms them and the Church as a whole.  Many come here to learn of Orthodoxy and instead see childishness.  What good does that do them or the Church? 

As long as your foresight is greater than God's we should be OK.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #219 on: October 11, 2013, 05:42:02 AM »
And with each post you do nothing but prove yourselves, reveal your hearts and minds so that others easily identify you.  I'm certain you are proud of this.

Offline mike

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #220 on: October 11, 2013, 05:59:46 AM »
And with each post you do nothing but prove yourselves, reveal your hearts and minds so that others easily identify you.  I'm certain you are proud of this.

Why do you quote yourself so often?
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #221 on: October 11, 2013, 07:18:01 AM »
And with each post you do nothing but prove yourselves, reveal your hearts and minds so that others easily identify you.  I'm certain you are proud of this.

Why do you quote yourself so often?
Because he comes up with the best inspirational kitchen decor.

Like "Faith, friends, family" or "Live every moment, laugh everyday, Love beyond words"

And my personal favorite:

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #222 on: October 11, 2013, 07:20:35 AM »
And with each post you do nothing but prove yourselves, reveal your hearts and minds so that others easily identify you.  I'm certain you are proud of this.

Why do you quote yourself so often?

Why does a record skip?
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #223 on: October 11, 2013, 07:40:03 AM »
And with each post you do nothing but prove yourselves, reveal your hearts and minds so that others easily identify you.  I'm certain you are proud of this.
And with each post you do nothing but prove yourself, reveal your heart and mind so that others easily identify you.  I'm certain you are proud of this.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?
« Reply #224 on: October 11, 2013, 07:53:18 AM »
Nerdy could learn from Ned Flanders.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan