OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 28, 2014, 12:11:39 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?  (Read 5704 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,168


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« on: October 04, 2013, 12:22:25 PM »

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Chicago-burger-garnished-with-communion-wafer

(AP) Chicago burger garnished with communion wafer
 By CARYN ROUSSEAU
 Associated Press
 CHICAGO
 A Chicago restaurant has cooked up a controversial burger of the month for October, garnishing it with an unconsecrated communion wafer and a red wine reduction sauce.

Too long quote edited - MK.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:26:49 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged
Santagranddad
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: ROCA
Posts: 1,198



« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2013, 12:33:06 PM »

Yes, people may have a wide variety of things they find amusing or entertaining but for me the 'wafer' offering begs the question, 'why'?

I feel less and less appears to be worthy of respect or dignity, whether it is ourselves, each other or symbols. But then I might just be grumpy because of my years and a sense that too many appear to know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

OK, grumble over.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:33:40 PM by Santagranddad » Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,168


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2013, 12:37:45 PM »

Yes, people may have a wide variety of things they find amusing or entertaining but for me the 'wafer' offering begs the question, 'why'?

I feel less and less appears to be worthy of respect or dignity, whether it is ourselves, each other or symbols. But then I might just be grumpy because of my years and a sense that too many appear to know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

OK, grumble over.

I look at it as another chance by modern society to desecrate what is holy and good.  Unfortunately, we don't have enough people who would actually confront this restaurant and condemn them for this , or not patronize them.  Hit them in the purse and they may not want to repeat such stunts.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:39:30 PM by JoeS2 » Logged
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,092


"My god is greater."


« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2013, 12:44:19 PM »

If you really want to bring this restaurant a ton of business, set up a "Christian" protest in front of it.
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2013, 01:05:03 PM »

I don't see how putting a wafer on a hamburger constitutes as reaching "our" Sodom and Gomorrah.  Disrespectful? Yes.  Hokey?  Beyond what I can even imagine at the moment.  The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 
Logged

TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2013, 01:14:25 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2013, 01:16:09 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder

I just chortled.  Thank you. Grin

I have a box of Protestant communion at home.  Do you need a sleeve of crackers?
Logged

Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,412



« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2013, 01:22:40 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?

Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2013, 01:23:39 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?


I wouldn't.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 01:36:06 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.
Logged

Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2013, 01:39:50 PM »

The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 

What do you mean?
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,473



WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2013, 01:45:23 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quiet on a number of things.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 02:13:50 PM by LizaSymonenko » Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
vamrat
Vamratoraptor
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica
Posts: 7,975



« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2013, 01:47:08 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.
Logged

Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2013, 01:47:26 PM »

The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 

What do you mean?

He sees the Eucharist as "symbol."  In normal usage, a flag is indeed a symbol.  If burned, it's an insult to the country/institution it represents.  The man's comment tells me less about why the Eucharist is truly important/sacred and more about how the misuse of a symbol offends him.
Logged

hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2013, 01:48:11 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

Heresy! Grin  It's bread!  It's meant to be eaten.
Logged

hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2013, 01:50:13 PM »

Quote

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.
If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Unfortunately, it is too late.  Look at the society around you.  All we can do is continue to trust in God and pray to Him as we wait for our deaths or His coming.
Logged

TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2013, 01:52:26 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 01:52:47 PM by TheTrisagion » Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,473



WWW
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2013, 01:58:03 PM »

Quote

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.
If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Unfortunately, it is too late. Look at the society around you.  All we can do is continue to trust in God and pray to Him as we wait for our deaths or His coming.

I disagree.  It's never too late.

If our faith is true, then we have to believe that it is never too late.  As long as the trumpets haven't sounded, and there's breath in our lungs...it's not too late to make a positive difference.

However, I agree with TheTrisagion to a point.  We aren't like the Muslims who feel the need to destroy an entire village because someone might have dishonored their prophet, or something.  We are forgiving....but, yet....we need to be:

"Gentle as doves, and wise as serpents."

There is a point when we cannot simply shut up and watch the world rot around us...

There's a time when tolerance and acceptance must have a limit.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 01:58:52 PM by LizaSymonenko » Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,168


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2013, 01:58:58 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder

These folks who do this, do it for a specific reason or a specific reaction.  And, I guess he is getting it.  Even knowing that this is a pre consecrated host it would still be an insult to any Catholic or Orthodox for that matter.  I would caution not to treat this little occasion too lightly since we are seeing a steady but progressive degradation of society.
Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,420


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2013, 01:59:05 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.


+1

Post of the Month Nominee.

This happened in Hitler Germany. No one defended the Jews or so the quote by a Protestant minister goes.
Does anyone remember the name of that Protestant and his quote?
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2013, 02:04:08 PM »

Martin-Niemöller, a Lutheran minister-

Quote
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

He was no defender of Jews, IIRC.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 02:05:32 PM by hecma925 » Logged

JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,168


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2013, 02:04:43 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Don't say this too loud, it may give them ideas....... Undecided
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2013, 02:05:02 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,420


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2013, 02:07:53 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Don't say this too loud, it may give them ideas....... Undecided

Trader Joes' offers organic whole wheat Pain Pascal (Paschal bread) in mini and regular size.
The mini is delicious used as a bun. Our priest said that it could be used for the Eucharist and for antidoron in a pinch when none is available.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 02:11:31 PM »

The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 

What do you mean?

He sees the Eucharist as "symbol."  In normal usage, a flag is indeed a symbol.  If burned, it's an insult to the country/institution it represents.  The man's comment tells me less about why the Eucharist is truly important/sacred and more about how the misuse of a symbol offends him.

I didn't read his comment to say that he sees the Eucharist as a symbol (i.e., something that stands for something else, but not the real thing).  I read it as his pointing out that the wafer on the burger isn't consecrated, is not the Eucharist, and so it may not be a sacrilege in that specific sense.  But because it is a communion wafer, it represents the Eucharist, and so to use it as an accent for a burger is an attack on what is symbolised by it.  I think it's motivated by his faith in the Eucharist, not by a misappropriation of a symbol.    
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
vamrat
Vamratoraptor
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica
Posts: 7,975



« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2013, 02:15:48 PM »

There was a time when we'd burn these people and their bacondoubleblasphemyburgers.  /Nostalgia.
Logged

Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,412



« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2013, 02:16:11 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2013, 02:17:09 PM »

There was a time when we'd burn these people and their bacondoubleblasphemyburgers.  /Nostalgia.

Is that what Wendy's is calling the Baconator now?
Logged

Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2013, 02:19:29 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.

My intention was humour.  Wink
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,412



« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2013, 02:29:46 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.

My intention was humour.  Wink
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2013, 02:31:24 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

When too many prosphoras pile up in church and there's no Liturgy over the week to use them, we get some to eat at home. Otherwise they'd just go bad, even in the mini-refrigerator where we keep them.
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2013, 02:34:50 PM »



While the beard is appropriate, he looks too happy to actually be Orthodox. 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2013, 02:36:53 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.

My intention was humour.  Wink
You are apostate for putting a second "u" in humour.  And you call yourself an American. HRMPH!!!  Angry
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,412



« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2013, 02:37:32 PM »



While the beard is appropriate, he looks too happy to actually be Orthodox. 
IIRC, he's actually some kind of modern-day reconstruction of the Essenes. One of his disciples trolled here for a while during your absence.
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2013, 02:40:10 PM »

If you really want to bring this restaurant a ton of business, set up a "Christian" protest in front of it.
How long was it after Seanad O'Connor tore up the picture of Pope John Paul II that she had to leave town?

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,420


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2013, 02:41:07 PM »



While the beard is appropriate, he looks too happy to actually be Orthodox. 
IIRC, he's actually some kind of modern-day reconstruction of the Essenes. One of his disciples trolled here for a while during your absence.

He holds his hands in a Protestant or Buddhist manner.

Is Outrage!

Did Orthodox Christians in Russia employ the praying hands of the Reformation?
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2013, 02:43:47 PM »

You are apostate for putting a second "u" in humour.  And you call yourself an American. HRMPH!!!  Angry

LOL!  "Hum" + "or" =/= hyoo'muhr, and you're complaining about an extra "u".  Whatever.  Tongue    
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2013, 02:44:38 PM »

IIRC, he's actually some kind of modern-day reconstruction of the Essenes. One of his disciples trolled here for a while during your absence.

How did I miss so much fun?
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2013, 02:47:34 PM »

You are apostate for putting a second "u" in humour.  And you call yourself an American. HRMPH!!!  Angry

LOL!  "Hum" + "or" =/= hyoo'muhr, and you're complaining about an extra "u".  Whatever.  Tongue    
If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2013, 02:48:52 PM »

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.

I think it's pretty clear that the wafer was added for one reason and one reason only.  It wasn't for flavour, texture, colour, or anything else: it adds none of those things to what looks, on this Friday, like a great burger.  The host is there to provoke and to poke fun.  It is there because it is a host, not just a random wafer, even if unconsecrated.  And that is disgusting.    
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2013, 02:49:57 PM »

If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism

Noted. 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,473



WWW
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2013, 02:50:47 PM »

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.

I think it's pretty clear that the wafer was added for one reason and one reason only.  It wasn't for flavour, texture, colour, or anything else: it adds none of those things to what looks, on this Friday, like a great burger.  The host is there to provoke and to poke fun.  It is there because it is a host, not just a random wafer, even if unconsecrated.  And that is disgusting.    

^ Exactly!
Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2013, 02:53:37 PM »

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.

I think it's pretty clear that the wafer was added for one reason and one reason only.  It wasn't for flavour, texture, colour, or anything else: it adds none of those things to what looks, on this Friday, like a great burger.  The host is there to provoke and to poke fun.  It is there because it is a host, not just a random wafer, even if unconsecrated.  And that is disgusting.    

^ Exactly!
Indeed. My first reaction was they have no flavor, no texture, and stick to the roof of your mouth.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2013, 02:54:36 PM »

If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism

Noted. 
LOL!  Epic fail on my part.  laugh
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2013, 03:00:38 PM »

Indeed. My first reaction was they have no flavor, no texture, and stick to the roof of your mouth.

When I was in seminary, a classmate and I went to a Catholic supply store.  I bought a copy of Taft's book on the Liturgy of the Hours (pleasure reading), and he bought a few things.  One of those things was a plastic bag of 120 hosts he picked up for five bucks.  We've never received Catholic communion, and he was intrigued when he saw the variety of hosts available.  We drove back, and for about an hour before Vespers, he and I sat in his car with the windows down drinking Cherry Coke and eating hosts.  We confirmed that they have no flavour, texture, are entirely un-appetizing, and that eating unconsecrated hosts is just weird. 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 03:06:54 PM »

If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism

Noted. 
LOL!  Epic fail on my part.  laugh
I thought it was facetiously intentional with your hashtag and all.  I laughed heartily.
Logged

Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2013, 03:10:19 PM »

Indeed. My first reaction was they have no flavor, no texture, and stick to the roof of your mouth.

When I was in seminary, a classmate and I went to a Catholic supply store.  I bought a copy of Taft's book on the Liturgy of the Hours (pleasure reading), and he bought a few things.  One of those things was a plastic bag of 120 hosts he picked up for five bucks.  We've never received Catholic communion, and he was intrigued when he saw the variety of hosts available.  We drove back, and for about an hour before Vespers, he and I sat in his car with the windows down drinking Cherry Coke and eating hosts.  We confirmed that they have no flavour, texture, are entirely un-appetizing, and that eating unconsecrated hosts is just weird. 

I bought Jewish matzot to share with friends on the bus while on a trip in Italy. And a tallit. The shop keeper was intrigued...  
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2013, 03:11:11 PM »

If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism

Noted. 
LOL!  Epic fail on my part.  laugh
I thought it was facetiously intentional with your hashtag and all.  I laughed heartily.
Yes, yes.  That is what it was.  Well done identifying that.  laugh
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2013, 03:14:50 PM »

I bought Jewish matzot to share with friends on the bus while on a trip in Italy. And a tallit. The shop keeper was intrigued...  

A couple of years ago, I drove over to an ultra-Orthodox Jewish section of Brooklyn to visit a bookstore and find something decent to eat.  The proprietor of the bookstore wasn't at all surprised that a brown Gentile walked in and tried on skullcaps.  He found me a proper size, we talked about some books, and referred me to a good deli. 

I think you and I would get alone just fine in real life.  Smiley
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2013, 03:17:09 PM »

I think you and I would get alone just fine in real life.  Smiley

I'm sure we would!  laugh
Logged
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2013, 03:19:41 PM »

If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism

So "Ghamorah" is the suprior spelling of עֲמוֹרָה?
Logged
Nicene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 615


« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2013, 04:45:41 PM »

Stay classy.
Logged

Thank you.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,240


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2013, 05:03:08 PM »

Stay classy.

No no no no!  It's, "Stay thirsty, my friend". Grin
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
WPM
Revolutionary Writer
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,629



« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2013, 05:24:32 PM »

I've developed an appreciation for small icons and the golden hue of Jesus. Anybody else have the same appreciation? ...
Logged
ilyazhito
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 928



« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2013, 05:35:39 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.


+1

Post of the Month Nominee.

This happened in Hitler Germany. No one defended the Jews or so the quote by a Protestant minister goes.
Does anyone remember the name of that Protestant and his quote?
Niemoller. Martin Niemoller. Anyhow, this is wrong. This is worse than what Pussy Riot did, because an altar can be reconsecrated, but once the Eucharist is eaten and used as profane food and not as what it should be, nothing can be done except apply ecclesiastical penalties to the offender and make such a hue and cry by protesting that others may not dare to THINK about repeating such a crazy stunt. 
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2013, 06:29:29 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.


+1

Post of the Month Nominee.

This happened in Hitler Germany. No one defended the Jews or so the quote by a Protestant minister goes.
Does anyone remember the name of that Protestant and his quote?
Niemoller. Martin Niemoller. Anyhow, this is wrong. This is worse than what Pussy Riot did, because an altar can be reconsecrated, but once the Eucharist is eaten and used as profane food and not as what it should be, nothing can be done except apply ecclesiastical penalties to the offender and make such a hue and cry by protesting that others may not dare to THINK about repeating such a crazy stunt. 
I'm not condoning their actions, but it would be infinitely worse if they were using consecrated bread.  This is not the Eucharist. It is not Eucharistic until it is consecrated.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,168


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2013, 09:24:09 PM »


I'm not condoning their actions, but it would be infinitely worse if they were using consecrated bread.  This is not the Eucharist. It is not Eucharistic until it is consecrated.

Regardless whether it is or isn't consecrated we all know the purpose for this act.  If it were the consecrated host would we be getting a more serious discussion?
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2013, 10:08:14 PM »

If you really want to bring this restaurant a ton of business, set up a "Christian" protest in front of it.
Chik-Fil-A already took that marketing ploy.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2013, 10:09:09 PM »

How long was it after Seanad O'Connor tore up the picture of Pope John Paul II that she had to leave town?
It's been seven hours and fifteen days.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2013, 11:09:10 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



I would say, "Finally, some recognition."

But, as for the communion burger, yeah, someone was smoking something strange when they decided to do that. I'm not so much offended from a religious angle as I am from a creative/aesthetic one.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
#1Sinner
Moderated
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 233



« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2013, 05:00:50 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quiet weak and scared to be seen as "extremist" on a number of things.


fixed
Logged

I hereby recant of defending "orthodoxy" and trying to persuade fellow Catholics of embracing schism. I adhere to the Catholic Faith as preserved by the Church of Rome and Her Pontiffs.
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2013, 08:12:37 AM »

Are any of you familiar with Ghost?  This really is the most fitting burger if you were going to make a Ghost burger.  
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 08:15:25 AM by KBN1 » Logged
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,436



« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2013, 09:20:21 AM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder

Only if you are having grape soup.
Logged
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Posts: 6,432



« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2013, 09:30:55 AM »

The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 

What do you mean?

He sees the Eucharist as "symbol."  In normal usage, a flag is indeed a symbol.  If burned, it's an insult to the country/institution it represents.  The man's comment tells me less about why the Eucharist is truly important/sacred and more about how the misuse of a symbol offends him.

No, what he meant was that as the wafer that is put on the burger is not consecrated it is not the Body.  It is only after consecration that it is part of the Eucharist with the Blood.  But since the wafers are made with a cross impressed on them it is that symbol and the destruction by eating on the sandwich that he compares to the symbol of the flag. 

Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2013, 09:35:22 AM »

It's bad because azymes are involved.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2013, 10:37:24 AM »


I'm not condoning their actions, but it would be infinitely worse if they were using consecrated bread.  This is not the Eucharist. It is not Eucharistic until it is consecrated.

Regardless whether it is or isn't consecrated we all know the purpose for this act.  If it were the consecrated host would we be getting a more serious discussion?
Yes. One is the Body of Christ, the other is not.  That being said, I'm not sure how they would ever be able to get a hold of consecrated host.  I doubt any priest is going to consecrate it for them.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2013, 11:37:48 AM »


I'm not condoning their actions, but it would be infinitely worse if they were using consecrated bread.  This is not the Eucharist. It is not Eucharistic until it is consecrated.

Regardless whether it is or isn't consecrated we all know the purpose for this act.  If it were the consecrated host would we be getting a more serious discussion?
Yes. One is the Body of Christ, the other is not.  That being said, I'm not sure how they would ever be able to get a hold of consecrated host.  I doubt any priest is going to consecrate it for them.

Pay a vagante bishop enough...
Logged

Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,436



« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2013, 12:04:32 PM »


I'm not condoning their actions, but it would be infinitely worse if they were using consecrated bread.  This is not the Eucharist. It is not Eucharistic until it is consecrated.

Regardless whether it is or isn't consecrated we all know the purpose for this act.  If it were the consecrated host would we be getting a more serious discussion?
Yes. One is the Body of Christ, the other is not.  That being said, I'm not sure how they would ever be able to get a hold of consecrated host.  I doubt any priest is going to consecrate it for them.

He'd have to break the burger in half, for one thing: the altar guild would kill him for the ketchup stains on the altar linens.
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2013, 12:34:26 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder

Only if you are having grape soup.


 Cheesy
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2013, 12:38:04 PM »

Regardless whether it is or isn't consecrated we all know the purpose for this act.  If it were the consecrated host would we be getting a more serious discussion?
Yes. One is the Body of Christ, the other is not.  That being said, I'm not sure how they would ever be able to get a hold of consecrated host.  I doubt any priest is going to consecrate it for them.

Ever heard of "Communion in the hand"?  Before that was allowed, people were still able to confiscate hosts at Communion time for use in Black Masses and other profanities by receiving the host carefully in their mouths and then removing it when not being watched.  Nowadays, non-Catholics and even non-Christians can walk up, extend their hand, say "Amen", and take one without even being questioned.  You could probably do it twice at the same service if you time it right. 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
NicholasMyra
Avowed denominationalist
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 6,068


When in doubt, say: "you lack the proper φρόνημα"


« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2013, 01:13:39 PM »

Hosts and cherry coke?

You mean hosts and cherry Dr. Pepper.

Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
ilyazhito
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 928



« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2013, 03:26:40 PM »

Now, that is ridiculous. Only hip Catholic 1960s priests would do that. Orthodox priests would be defrocked and beaten over the head for good measure if they tried to do that. Anyhow, a communion burger is a twisted idea, because Jesus said that he is the bread of life. If communion burgers were appropriate, then he would have called himself the burger of life, or the hot dog of life.
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2013, 04:10:40 PM »

Ever heard of "Communion in the hand"?  Before that was allowed, people were still able to confiscate hosts at Communion time for use in Black Masses and other profanities by receiving the host carefully in their mouths and then removing it when not being watched.  Nowadays, non-Catholics and even non-Christians can walk up, extend their hand, say "Amen", and take one without even being questioned.  You could probably do it twice at the same service if you time it right. 

At the Catholic secondary school I went to, the priest would have to go round the church and pick hosts off the bottom of the pews, since a lot of students would keep them in their mouths and then take them out and stick them under their seats like bubble gum. At least those were retrievable, many others just threw them in the bin as they left the chapel.

Forcing them to eat a piece of antidoron immediately after receiving is a practice they might want to consider introducing for safety reasons.
Logged
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2013, 04:14:16 PM »

At the Catholic secondary school I went to, the priest would have to go round the church and pick hosts off the bottom of the pews, since a lot of students would keep them in their mouths and then take them out and stick them under their seats like bubble gum. At least those were retrievable, many others just threw them in the bin as they left the chapel.

 Shocked What pagan country was that in?
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2013, 04:16:06 PM »

Shocked What pagan country was that in?

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Compulsory worship is a bad idea even in religious schools. It rarely has the desired effect.
Logged
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2013, 04:25:09 PM »

Now, that is ridiculous. Only hip Catholic 1960s priests would do that. Orthodox priests would be defrocked and beaten over the head for good measure if they tried to do that. Anyhow, a communion burger is a twisted idea, because Jesus said that he is the bread of life. If communion burgers were appropriate, then he would have called himself the burger of life, or the hot dog of life.
There were no burgers or hot dogs back then.
Logged

TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2013, 05:32:00 PM »

Ever heard of "Communion in the hand"?  Before that was allowed, people were still able to confiscate hosts at Communion time for use in Black Masses and other profanities by receiving the host carefully in their mouths and then removing it when not being watched.  Nowadays, non-Catholics and even non-Christians can walk up, extend their hand, say "Amen", and take one without even being questioned.  You could probably do it twice at the same service if you time it right. 

At the Catholic secondary school I went to, the priest would have to go round the church and pick hosts off the bottom of the pews, since a lot of students would keep them in their mouths and then take them out and stick them under their seats like bubble gum. At least those were retrievable, many others just threw them in the bin as they left the chapel.

Forcing them to eat a piece of antidoron immediately after receiving is a practice they might want to consider introducing for safety reasons.
So did the priest then have to eat them all?
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,477


« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2013, 06:07:55 PM »

There was a time when we'd burn these people and their bacondoubleblasphemyburgers.  /Nostalgia.

As an apostate heretic you would be burned next to them so do not get excited.

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quiet on a number of things.


This is good responce: http://pithlessthoughts.blogspot.com/2011/02/martyrdom-across-centuries.html

It's bad because azymes are involved.

Lolled.

Compulsory worship is a bad idea even in religious schools. It rarely has the desired effect.

+1 Yet some Orthodox think it's positive.
Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,420


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2013, 06:24:34 PM »

Ever heard of "Communion in the hand"?  Before that was allowed, people were still able to confiscate hosts at Communion time for use in Black Masses and other profanities by receiving the host carefully in their mouths and then removing it when not being watched.  Nowadays, non-Catholics and even non-Christians can walk up, extend their hand, say "Amen", and take one without even being questioned.  You could probably do it twice at the same service if you time it right. 

At the Catholic secondary school I went to, the priest would have to go round the church and pick hosts off the bottom of the pews, since a lot of students would keep them in their mouths and then take them out and stick them under their seats like bubble gum. At least those were retrievable, many others just threw them in the bin as they left the chapel.

Forcing them to eat a piece of antidoron immediately after receiving is a practice they might want to consider introducing for safety reasons.

This is one of the many reasons that I questioned the RC sacraments and finally joined the Holy Orthodox Church. There is a serious lack of faith in Roman Catholicism. Even at my RC wedding, the Catholic priest was handing out Holy Communion like jelly beans to anyone who would approach.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,477


« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2013, 06:32:37 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



I would say, "Finally, some recognition."

+1
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,892


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2013, 06:44:46 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



I imagine that would actually taste good. I may Cross myself before eating it, but it would still taste good nonetheless.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,892


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2013, 07:13:58 PM »

Given how much modern Roman Catholics seem to disregard the sanctity of the Sacraments, this doesn't surprise me or really come off as that bad, given what else is going on with it. Heck, I have an Evangelical friend who hates Roman Catholicism yet still receives the Eucharist at his private RC High-School twice a week just because. Heck, many atheists and pseudo-Hindus also receive it like it is nothing.

I think the greatest sense of joy was when that Priest at the Joy of All Who Sorrow refused to give me the Eucharist because he didn't recognize me. Was it embarrassing? Yes. However, I was well pleased at how seriously the Sacraments were being protected, especially in a huge tourist attraction like the JOAWS where ecumenist RCs are always attending because according to Pope John Paul or whoever that famous Pope was, we're just like them except without the Pope. And any Orthodox Christian who says differently is wrong because the Pope knows our faith better than we do  Roll Eyes
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,416


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2013, 10:15:29 PM »

"...resist not an evil person..." - Christ
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2013, 10:27:01 PM »

I suppose he said that after calming down from going postal on the moneychangers in the Temple in John 2.  Maybe Nicodemus talked some sense into him in the following chapter. 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,412



« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2013, 10:34:25 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



I would say, "Finally, some recognition."
I suppose my own reaction would be something along the lines of, "Huh. Must be some kind of lapsed Greek."
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2013, 10:42:11 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.

+1. Consider the source said mom and turn the other cheek  and forgive those who sin against us  seventy time seven times said our Lord. Good advice from both.
Logged
newtoorthodoxy
Banned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Posts: 487



« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2013, 10:55:48 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder

rofl!!
Logged

Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2013, 12:13:49 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:15:03 AM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2013, 12:20:28 AM »

In response to the title of this thread...

...just about.  It won't be much longer and people will rejoice about their sins in the same way.  Not there yet, but it's right around the corner.
Logged
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2013, 12:21:11 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
Logged

Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2013, 12:26:41 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.
Logged
Gunnarr
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,803



« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2013, 02:29:58 AM »

There was a time when we'd burn these people and their bacondoubleblasphemyburgers.  /Nostalgia.

 angel angel angel
Logged

I am a demonic servant! Beware!
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,477


« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2013, 04:27:57 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2013, 05:58:15 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
How short sighted of you.  Lack of experience and poor problem solving is the blame for your nonexistent foresight.  Time for you to get real. And not a very good attempt to twist my post.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 06:07:29 AM by Kerdy » Logged
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,477


« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2013, 06:18:09 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
How short sighted of you.  Lack of experience and poor problem solving is the blame for your nonexistent foresight.  Time for you to get real. And not a very good attempt to twist my post.

Actually my family have experience of being murdered by Catholic for the faith. It's not quite similar to the OP and I find comparing these 2 things insulting.
Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2013, 06:35:14 AM »

Putting an unconsecrated host onto a hamburger is a really warped and disgusting way to get publicity, but it also appears to be working. I'm not sure which of these situations is more depressing, but consider it a point in favor of fasting that has been neglected in the West, including by RCs.

And, no, it's not at all comparable to martyrdom. Martyrdom is martyrdom and hamburgers are hamburgers and never the twain shall meet (unless you're planning a really radical protest of this restaurant).
Logged

Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2013, 07:38:27 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
How short sighted of you.  Lack of experience and poor problem solving is the blame for your nonexistent foresight.  Time for you to get real. And not a very good attempt to twist my post.

Actually my family have experience of being murdered by Catholic for the faith. It's not quite similar to the OP and I find comparing these 2 things insulting.
And you were there?  Didn't think so.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2013, 07:39:49 AM »

Putting an unconsecrated host onto a hamburger is a really warped and disgusting way to get publicity, but it also appears to be working. I'm not sure which of these situations is more depressing, but consider it a point in favor of fasting that has been neglected in the West, including by RCs.

And, no, it's not at all comparable to martyrdom. Martyrdom is martyrdom and hamburgers are hamburgers and never the twain shall meet (unless you're planning a really radical protest of this restaurant).
And homosexuals will never be allowed to marry.  Yeah, heard this all before.  It was wrong then, it's wrong now.
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #98 on: October 06, 2013, 08:48:04 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
How short sighted of you.  Lack of experience and poor problem solving is the blame for your nonexistent foresight.  Time for you to get real. And not a very good attempt to twist my post.

Actually my family have experience of being murdered by Catholic for the faith. It's not quite similar to the OP and I find comparing these 2 things insulting.
And you were there?  Didn't think so.

This is perhaps among the worst, most un Christ-like response ever posted here.

You sir, should be ashamed. Have you no sense of decency?
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #99 on: October 06, 2013, 09:22:37 AM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
How short sighted of you.  Lack of experience and poor problem solving is the blame for your nonexistent foresight.  Time for you to get real. And not a very good attempt to twist my post.

Actually my family have experience of being murdered by Catholic for the faith. It's not quite similar to the OP and I find comparing these 2 things insulting.
And you were there?  Didn't think so.

This is perhaps among the worst, most un Christ-like response ever posted here.

You sir, should be ashamed. Have you no sense of decency?
You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  No shame, just common sense, but it's always a pleasure to see the lack of ability to stay focused here.  Amazing work!  Diversion all around.  Senselessness and blindness for not seeing what's really happening regarding the topic of this thread, but you all go right ahead and live in pretend land.  Just remember, don't complain later.

By the way Michal, I didn't compare the two. Learn to read.  It'll help.  And I find you inability to comprehend insulting.  Guess we are even.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 09:42:23 AM by Kerdy » Logged
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #100 on: October 06, 2013, 01:45:50 PM »

I think it is unfair to claim that this restaurant is purposefully and directly mocking the Eucharist.  They are heavy metal fans and this burger is an homage to the band Ghost.  For reference:



The band is certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church, but to make a burger with an unconsecrated wafer and a wine reduction sauce to be named after the band, while in very poor taste, is actually a tiny bit clever.  And to say it somehow offends our Christian freedom or rights is just silly.  As has already been said, even most Christians don't believe that communion is actually anything, nor do they show any kind of particular respect to the elements.  The restaurant is trying to be provocative and it has been proven many times over that provocation sells. I'm sure they don't actually mean to offend people and I will continue to assume that they are nice, decent folks, they just don't know much better.  Pray for them that they might come to a different understanding. 

Oh, and IT IS A HAMBURGER AT ONE RESTAURANT IN THE WHOLE WORLD!
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #101 on: October 06, 2013, 01:52:29 PM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  

Three points:

1.  POD responded to your post where you asked Michal if he was present for the murder of members of his family by RC's.  But you didn't wait for an answer, ask what the circumstances were, etc., but ended with "Didn't think so."  Neither you nor Michal are incapable of snarky tit-for-tat, but why attempt to justify it when you're called on it?  

2.  What is it about this subject that requires a person to have had demonstrable, direct personal experience with religious persecution before their opinion can be taken seriously?  Regarding other discussion topics on this forum, opinions have been asserted by posters from less than personal experience, and similar appeals to personal experience as trumping other forms were rejected.  

3.  Roman Catholics may not have engaged in "killing sprees" in a long time, but you ought to remember or learn that in some parts of the world, such things happened within living memory.  They may not have happened in the US, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that people affected by this don't have a right to feel a certain way about it.          
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #102 on: October 06, 2013, 02:07:51 PM »

I think it is unfair to claim that this restaurant is purposefully and directly mocking the Eucharist.

Is it really "unfair"?  A host and a "wine reduction sauce" on a burger is really an accidental reference to the Eucharist whose sole purpose is to pay tribute to a band?  It's just a big coincidence? 

Quote
The band is certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church, but to make a burger with an unconsecrated wafer and a wine reduction sauce to be named after the band, while in very poor taste, is actually a tiny bit clever.

Based on your logic above, why is the band "certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church" when the restaurant is merely "clever"?   

Quote
And to say it somehow offends our Christian freedom or rights is just silly.  As has already been said, even most Christians don't believe that communion is actually anything, nor do they show any kind of particular respect to the elements.

Most Christians don't believe that they should kill Jews for their complicity in the death of Jesus, so I'm sure it won't be badly received if I post a photo of myself in vestments throwing a few Jews into an oven.  No one should feel threatened by that.  That would just be silly.   

Quote
The restaurant is trying to be provocative and it has been proven many times over that provocation sells. I'm sure they don't actually mean to offend people and I will continue to assume that they are nice, decent folks, they just don't know much better.  Pray for them that they might come to a different understanding.

LOL.  The restaurant is trying to be provocative because provocation sells.  But they don't actually mean to offend people.  Where's the line between provocation and offence?   

Quote
Oh, and IT IS A HAMBURGER AT ONE RESTAURANT IN THE WHOLE WORLD!

So what? 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
#1Sinner
Moderated
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 233



« Reply #103 on: October 06, 2013, 04:01:44 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
How short sighted of you.  Lack of experience and poor problem solving is the blame for your nonexistent foresight.  Time for you to get real. And not a very good attempt to twist my post.

Actually my family have experience of being murdered by Catholic for the faith. It's not quite similar to the OP and I find comparing these 2 things insulting.

This is not about insulting Catholics. Rather this is about mocking God. YOUR trying to equate your own experience with that of mocking our Lord shows your pride and sanctimony once again.
Logged

I hereby recant of defending "orthodoxy" and trying to persuade fellow Catholics of embracing schism. I adhere to the Catholic Faith as preserved by the Church of Rome and Her Pontiffs.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,892


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #104 on: October 06, 2013, 04:01:44 PM »

I think it is unfair to claim that this restaurant is purposefully and directly mocking the Eucharist.  They are heavy metal fans and this burger is an homage to the band Ghost.  For reference:



The band is certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church, but to make a burger with an unconsecrated wafer and a wine reduction sauce to be named after the band, while in very poor taste, is actually a tiny bit clever.  And to say it somehow offends our Christian freedom or rights is just silly.  As has already been said, even most Christians don't believe that communion is actually anything, nor do they show any kind of particular respect to the elements.  The restaurant is trying to be provocative and it has been proven many times over that provocation sells. I'm sure they don't actually mean to offend people and I will continue to assume that they are nice, decent folks, they just don't know much better.  Pray for them that they might come to a different understanding. 

Oh, and IT IS A HAMBURGER AT ONE RESTAURANT IN THE WHOLE WORLD!

Would you feel the same way if it were a rap group or artist that was mocking a religion and a restaurant made a burger referencing it? I'm inclined to believe no. To be honest, I think the only reason for this sad apology is that there are a lot of angsty White folks on here who grew up listening to metal and can disregard its profanity and/or sacrilege. Music of any kind doesn't really exempt rudeness and offensiveness; it is still rude and offensive. Either way, anyone crusading on about how offensive this is really needs to get their act together. I think it is a bigger sacrilege to God when you neglect to help the homeless and romanticize poverty than when you put an unleavened cracker on a burger.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,892


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #105 on: October 06, 2013, 04:01:44 PM »

Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.

Adolf Hitler as well as all those Roman Catholic Cardinals, Bishops, and monasteries that took in fleeing Nazis would like a word with you...likewise, I'm sure Michal Kalina would happily tell you a bunch of stories about violent Roman Catholics back in Poland/Belarus or whatever little nation he's always talking about.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
katherine 2001
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 889


Eastern Orthodox Church--Established in 33 A.D.


« Reply #106 on: October 06, 2013, 04:14:56 PM »

Kerdy, you might want to remember that Michal's first language is not English, but Polish.  Maybe he should start posting in Polish and see how well your reading comprehension would be.  Michal, I am sorry about what happened in your family in the past
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #107 on: October 06, 2013, 04:31:25 PM »

I think the guy doing this is just a childish moron looking for attention. The host and the wine are obviously not consecrated so it does not equate to a direct blasphemy to Christ in the Eucharist. Now, as an uneducated idiot, he may be attempting to blaspheme the Eucharist, but he only accomplishes this subjectively. The best reaction is to ignore his infantile need to jump up and down, screaming "Look at me! Look at me!"

The situations that justly deserve our attention are those in which the real Eucharist is attacked, or icons/statues are defaced.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #108 on: October 06, 2013, 04:32:47 PM »

Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.

Adolf Hitler as well as all those Roman Catholic Cardinals, Bishops, and monasteries that took in fleeing Nazis would like a word with you...likewise, I'm sure Michal Kalina would happily tell you a bunch of stories about violent Roman Catholics back in Poland/Belarus or whatever little nation he's always talking about.

Hitler may have been baptized/confirmed Catholic, but he hated the Church. And there many, many Catholic clerics that did what they could to protect and hide Jews during World War II. Maybe you should think before you post.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Santagranddad
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: ROCA
Posts: 1,198



« Reply #109 on: October 06, 2013, 04:49:36 PM »

The Serbs faced a Croat fascist onslaught with a heavy clerical leadership of a policy of kill a third, convert a third and exile a third. Their torment was shared by the Gypsies and Jews. The leadership of the Croat fascist movement was backed by the Croation Catholic Church hierarchy and clergy.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #110 on: October 06, 2013, 04:55:34 PM »



Proof metal is the worst thing ever.

Almost enough to prove God doesn't exist.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #111 on: October 06, 2013, 05:30:41 PM »

I think it is unfair to claim that this restaurant is purposefully and directly mocking the Eucharist.  They are heavy metal fans and this burger is an homage to the band Ghost.  For reference:



The band is certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church, but to make a burger with an unconsecrated wafer and a wine reduction sauce to be named after the band, while in very poor taste, is actually a tiny bit clever.  And to say it somehow offends our Christian freedom or rights is just silly.  As has already been said, even most Christians don't believe that communion is actually anything, nor do they show any kind of particular respect to the elements.  The restaurant is trying to be provocative and it has been proven many times over that provocation sells. I'm sure they don't actually mean to offend people and I will continue to assume that they are nice, decent folks, they just don't know much better.  Pray for them that they might come to a different understanding. 

Oh, and IT IS A HAMBURGER AT ONE RESTAURANT IN THE WHOLE WORLD!

Would you feel the same way if it were a rap group or artist that was mocking a religion and a restaurant made a burger referencing it? I'm inclined to believe no. To be honest, I think the only reason for this sad apology is that there are a lot of angsty White folks on here who grew up listening to metal and can disregard its profanity and/or sacrilege. Music of any kind doesn't really exempt rudeness and offensiveness; it is still rude and offensive. Either way, anyone crusading on about how offensive this is really needs to get their act together. I think it is a bigger sacrilege to God when you neglect to help the homeless and romanticize poverty than when you put an unleavened cracker on a burger.

Race card.  Classic.  Where did I disregard the profanity and sacrilege of Ghost?
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,892


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #112 on: October 06, 2013, 05:32:55 PM »

Hitler may have been baptized/confirmed Catholic, but he hated the Church.

Doesn't mean he still didn't manipulate tons of Roman Catholics into supporting him and the fact that the Vatican itself supported him.

Quote
And there many, many Catholic clerics that did what they could to protect and hide Jews during World War II. Maybe you should think before you post.

And an even larger number--including the Pope--who helped Nazis escape justice and supported Hitler.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #113 on: October 06, 2013, 05:34:29 PM »


Proof metal is the worst thing ever.

Almost enough to prove God doesn't exist.

I agree, there is plenty of truly abhorrent stuff out there.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #114 on: October 06, 2013, 06:00:44 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  Be as flippant about these things as you like, but you lose the right to complain later, especially when you join them with your Protestant saltine cracker idiocy.

I am reminded of Saul heading to Damascus to viciously mock the Church.
I'm reminded of the martyred because no one did anything until it was too late.

Yes, because putting that thing into hamburger equals eg. boiling in hot oil. Get real.
How short sighted of you.  Lack of experience and poor problem solving is the blame for your nonexistent foresight.  Time for you to get real. And not a very good attempt to twist my post.

Actually my family have experience of being murdered by Catholic for the faith. It's not quite similar to the OP and I find comparing these 2 things insulting.

This is not about insulting Catholics. Rather this is about mocking God. YOUR trying to equate your own experience with that of mocking our Lord shows your pride and sanctimony once again.
With him, it's either about Catholics or Russians.  He almost never sees the real point or truth of a matter. 
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #115 on: October 06, 2013, 06:08:21 PM »

Kerdy, you might want to remember that Michal's first language is not English, but Polish. 
I know this, but if he doesn't understand the basic structure of English, he may want to confirm prior to spouting off comments that have nothing to do with what people are actually saying.  He does it often and has done it a lot.  I've cut him a lot of slack due to the language difference but after several years he has no excuse.  I didn't write a novel, I wrote one simple easy to read sentence in response to another simple easy to read sentence.  His extra responsibilities require his grasp of English.  He should take it a little more serious instead of trying to shift the topic of discussion to something he wants to talk about rather than what is really being talked about.

Either way, most people fail to see the problem with the OP.  It shows how detached people have become.
Logged
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #116 on: October 06, 2013, 06:15:24 PM »

I think it is unfair to claim that this restaurant is purposefully and directly mocking the Eucharist.

Is it really "unfair"?  A host and a "wine reduction sauce" on a burger is really an accidental reference to the Eucharist whose sole purpose is to pay tribute to a band?  It's just a big coincidence? 

Of course it isn't an accidental reference to the Eucharist.  That's why it works as an homage to a band that dresses as satanic clergy and monks.  If the band didn't dress as they do, then the offense would be more squarely on the restaurant.  Is the burger in poor taste?  Yes.  Is the restaurant doing it to make a mockery of the Catholic faith and sacrament as some here seem to think?  I strongly doubt it.  Is the band guilty of making mockery of the Catholic faith and sacrament?  Absolutely.  I feel it is an important distinction.

Quote
Quote
The band is certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church, but to make a burger with an unconsecrated wafer and a wine reduction sauce to be named after the band, while in very poor taste, is actually a tiny bit clever.

Based on your logic above, why is the band "certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church" when the restaurant is merely "clever"?

See above.

Quote
Quote
And to say it somehow offends our Christian freedom or rights is just silly.  As has already been said, even most Christians don't believe that communion is actually anything, nor do they show any kind of particular respect to the elements.

Most Christians don't believe that they should kill Jews for their complicity in the death of Jesus, so I'm sure it won't be badly received if I post a photo of myself in vestments throwing a few Jews into an oven.  No one should feel threatened by that.  That would just be silly.

This is just silly.

Quote
Quote
The restaurant is trying to be provocative and it has been proven many times over that provocation sells. I'm sure they don't actually mean to offend people and I will continue to assume that they are nice, decent folks, they just don't know much better.  Pray for them that they might come to a different understanding.

LOL.  The restaurant is trying to be provocative because provocation sells.  But they don't actually mean to offend people.  Where's the line between provocation and offence?

Look to just about any bit of advertising or entertainment that uses sex appeal or violence.  There is a line that can be walked where few people are "offended" while grabbing most people's attention.  Meaning to actually offend people is a great way to go out of business unless you are hoping to cater to a very specific demographic.  There is always going to be a certain amount of collateral damage by being provocative, but that is to be expected.  That doesn't mean that the goal of the advertising is to offend people; the goal is to get attention.  This burger stunt may prove to be miscalculated, but I don't see how their goal could have been to offend Christians everywhere.

Quote
Quote
Oh, and IT IS A HAMBURGER AT ONE RESTAURANT IN THE WHOLE WORLD!

So what? 

I believe that people's outrage has been an overreaction.  Are we really going to get into a tizzy about a hamburger?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 06:17:48 PM by KBN1 » Logged
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,477


« Reply #117 on: October 06, 2013, 06:17:57 PM »

Either way, most people fail to see the problem with the OP.  It shows how detached people have become.

It shows how they distinguish between important and inappreciable things.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #118 on: October 06, 2013, 06:19:48 PM »


Proof metal is the worst thing ever.

Almost enough to prove God doesn't exist.

I agree, there is plenty of truly abhorrent stuff out there.

But how does that even come close to disproving the existence of God? (As if proving or disproving the existence of God was not an exercise in ridiculousness.)
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #119 on: October 06, 2013, 06:24:23 PM »


Proof metal is the worst thing ever.

Almost enough to prove God doesn't exist.

I agree, there is plenty of truly abhorrent stuff out there.

But how does that even come close to disproving the existence of God? (As if proving or disproving the existence of God was not an exercise in ridiculousness.)

Yeah, I don't know.  I wasn't meaning to respond to that part of Achronos' statement.  I was just agreeing that there is disgusting stuff in some metal music.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #120 on: October 06, 2013, 06:47:39 PM »


Proof metal is the worst thing ever.

Almost enough to prove God doesn't exist.

I agree, there is plenty of truly abhorrent stuff out there.

But how does that even come close to disproving the existence of God? (As if proving or disproving the existence of God was not an exercise in ridiculousness.)

Yeah, I don't know.  I wasn't meaning to respond to that part of Achronos' statement.  I was just agreeing that there is disgusting stuff in some metal music.

Well, that is true. (Although metal is not the exclusive territory of the unseemly and disgusting in the musical realm.)
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #121 on: October 06, 2013, 07:16:12 PM »


Proof metal is the worst thing ever.

Almost enough to prove God doesn't exist.

I agree, there is plenty of truly abhorrent stuff out there.

But how does that even come close to disproving the existence of God? (As if proving or disproving the existence of God was not an exercise in ridiculousness.)

Yeah, I don't know.  I wasn't meaning to respond to that part of Achronos' statement.  I was just agreeing that there is disgusting stuff in some metal music.

Well, that is true. (Although metal is not the exclusive territory of the unseemly and disgusting in the musical realm.)

I agree wholeheartedly.
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #122 on: October 06, 2013, 09:02:52 PM »

Maybe you should think before you post.

+1, but I'm not holding my breath. 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #123 on: October 06, 2013, 09:35:01 PM »

Of course it isn't an accidental reference to the Eucharist.  That's why it works as an homage to a band that dresses as satanic clergy and monks.

See, in my mind, the way it works is that if it is not an accidental reference to the Eucharist, then it's intentional.  And the Eucharist is not primarily associated with "bands that dress as satanic clergy and monks", it's associated with Christ and with the Church.  That's not just my association as a Christian, but it is an association made by a society influenced by Christianity.  The association of a host and a wine reduction sauce with the band is forced.  Associating the Eucharistic elements with Christ and the Church is natural. 

And that's insulting.  Even if that was not their intention, that was bound to be the primary association and for that reason alone it should've been avoided.  That they pressed on anyway leaves them open to the charge of having intentionally taken a jab at Christ.  It's not unreasonable.  We need not treat them as if they were five year olds messing around in a colouring book.   

Quote
Quote
Based on your logic above, why is the band "certainly guilty of purposefully and directly mocking the Catholic church" when the restaurant is merely "clever"?

See above.

I did, but I don't understand the distinction you make here:

Quote
Is the restaurant doing it to make a mockery of the Catholic faith and sacrament as some here seem to think?  I strongly doubt it.  Is the band guilty of making mockery of the Catholic faith and sacrament?  Absolutely.  I feel it is an important distinction.

I agree with you about the band.  What is it that makes the restaurant different? 

Quote
Look to just about any bit of advertising or entertainment that uses sex appeal or violence.  There is a line that can be walked where few people are "offended" while grabbing most people's attention.  Meaning to actually offend people is a great way to go out of business unless you are hoping to cater to a very specific demographic.  There is always going to be a certain amount of collateral damage by being provocative, but that is to be expected.  That doesn't mean that the goal of the advertising is to offend people; the goal is to get attention.  This burger stunt may prove to be miscalculated, but I don't see how their goal could have been to offend Christians everywhere.

Except that the culture seems to have decided that offending Christians is "collateral damage" and not a danger to business.  And honestly, every time Christians try to excuse this sort of stuff through all manner of Olympic level gymnastic feats rather than call it what it is, they are emboldened.  I'm not saying that we should get all out of hand like Muslims objecting to cartoons in newspapers, but if we are at the point where we associate bread and wine with the Eucharist but choose to believe that others associate bread and wine with satanic clergy and monks, well that's just insane. 

Quote
I believe that people's outrage has been an overreaction.  Are we really going to get into a tizzy about a hamburger?

No one's getting into a tizzy about the hamburger, actually I thought it looked pretty good.  I would just order it without the cheese, host, and wine reduction sauce.  I don't like cheese, and I don't like mockery of the central religious observance of my faith.
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #124 on: October 06, 2013, 09:52:31 PM »

^ Well said. I agree completely, Mor.
Logged

Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #125 on: October 06, 2013, 10:47:53 PM »

Hitler may have been baptized/confirmed Catholic, but he hated the Church.

Doesn't mean he still didn't manipulate tons of Roman Catholics into supporting him and the fact that the Vatican itself supported him.

Quote
And there many, many Catholic clerics that did what they could to protect and hide Jews during World War II. Maybe you should think before you post.

And an even larger number--including the Pope--who helped Nazis escape justice and supported Hitler.
There is quite a bit of historical disagreement about the role of Pope Pius XII during World War II. Certainly, he helped quite a few Jews escape persecution. Does that mean he did "enough?" I don't know. But keep in mind that just because your first reaction is always to side with those who paint the Catholic Church in a negative light, it does not follow that those sources are always the best sources.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #126 on: October 06, 2013, 11:01:44 PM »

I'm as much a fan of not being under Rome as any other Orthodox person, but I must say that I really don't like how a thread that is about the profanation of a symbol of the Catholic faith for the sake of selling burgers has been the occasion for a side argument about Popes who are alleged closet Nazis or Nazi sympathizers or whatever all this stuff is. The Pope of Rome could be photographed in full Nazi regalia tomorrow and this restaurant's tasteless and offensive publicity stunt would still be contemptible and wrong.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 11:02:14 PM by dzheremi » Logged

KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #127 on: October 07, 2013, 12:05:23 AM »

Ok, I'm done with this topic.  I feel like Allen Iverson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #128 on: October 07, 2013, 12:59:00 AM »

Either way, most people fail to see the problem with the OP.  It shows how detached people have become.

It shows how they distinguish between important and inappreciable things.
The greatest responsibility does not fall on those who commit atrocity but rather those who sit quietly and allow it to take place.
Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #129 on: October 07, 2013, 01:29:30 AM »

How big was the pile of bumper stickers that you had to sift through before deciding to post that pseudo-aphorism, Kerdy?

An atrocity? Gee...you go right to the top shelf for your words. This isn't Simele 1933 or the Rwandan genocide we're talking about here. And yes, there is a difference between those who would commit this profanation by creating or eating the burger and those who wouldn't. How could there not be? One is deciding to participate in a grave offense against the religious sensibilities of their neighbors and the other is not. To say that they're guilty of something or other for "letting it happen" is I suppose a matter of perspective, but what then? Should I fly to Chicago and take the burger out of people's hands? Unfortunately, there is very little to stop the powerful mixture of callousness and freedom-abuse that results in such shocking bad taste being seen as acceptable (and this burger is far from the first, last, or worse instance of that same impulse being fed and enshrined as an inalienable right in secular society), but to change that you'd need something a little more effective than hectoring people on the internet who also don't like the burger. If you want to change people's minds so that this sort of thing stops happening, you need to reach and convince those who don't already largely agree with you. (You'll probably have to get off of OC.net for this one...)
Logged

Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #130 on: October 07, 2013, 07:59:36 AM »

How big was the pile of bumper stickers that you had to sift through before deciding to post that pseudo-aphorism, Kerdy?

An atrocity? Gee...you go right to the top shelf for your words. This isn't Simele 1933 or the Rwandan genocide we're talking about here. And yes, there is a difference between those who would commit this profanation by creating or eating the burger and those who wouldn't. How could there not be? One is deciding to participate in a grave offense against the religious sensibilities of their neighbors and the other is not. To say that they're guilty of something or other for "letting it happen" is I suppose a matter of perspective, but what then? Should I fly to Chicago and take the burger out of people's hands? Unfortunately, there is very little to stop the powerful mixture of callousness and freedom-abuse that results in such shocking bad taste being seen as acceptable (and this burger is far from the first, last, or worse instance of that same impulse being fed and enshrined as an inalienable right in secular society), but to change that you'd need something a little more effective than hectoring people on the internet who also don't like the burger. If you want to change people's minds so that this sort of thing stops happening, you need to reach and convince those who don't already largely agree with you. (You'll probably have to get off of OC.net for this one...)
Didn't even read it.  First comment was enough to ignore the rest.

There certainly is a lot of hype about people who "over react" only to see their concerns come to fruition time and again.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 08:05:03 AM by Kerdy » Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #131 on: October 07, 2013, 11:03:22 AM »

Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.

As Hitler as well as all those Roman Catholic Cardinals, Bishops, and monasteries that took in fleeing Nazis would like a word with you...likewise, I'm sure Michal Kalina would happily tell you a bunch of stories about violent Roman Catholics back in Poland/Belarus or whatever little nation he's always talking about.

And James so would the righteous Gentiles, including many Catholics, Orthodox and Protestant Christians, who risked all to protect Jews and other victims of 20th century evil like to have a word or two with you.

History is a complex and oft murky stew.
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #132 on: October 07, 2013, 11:39:47 AM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  

Three points:

1.  POD responded to your post where you asked Michal if he was present for the murder of members of his family by RC's.  But you didn't wait for an answer, ask what the circumstances were, etc., but ended with "Didn't think so."  Neither you nor Michal are incapable of snarky tit-for-tat, but why attempt to justify it when you're called on it?  

2.  What is it about this subject that requires a person to have had demonstrable, direct personal experience with religious persecution before their opinion can be taken seriously?  Regarding other discussion topics on this forum, opinions have been asserted by posters from less than personal experience, and similar appeals to personal experience as trumping other forms were rejected.  

3.  Roman Catholics may not have engaged in "killing sprees" in a long time, but you ought to remember or learn that in some parts of the world, such things happened within living memory.  They may not have happened in the US, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that people affected by this don't have a right to feel a certain way about it.          

Mor - you, I and many others realize that history is viewed by many Americans as an irrelevant dusty relic.

For the benefit of those who have no idea of what Michal is referring to, lives in being witnessed great brutality in the chaotic aftermath of the second world war. While they are dying off nowadays, their personal stories live on in the descendents and remain as a powerful part of the fabric of their being. The forced so-called "repatriation" of millions of ethnic Poles and Ukrainians from western Russia, Belarus and elsewhere along the border by the Soviet government resulted in brutal retaliation by the post war non communist Polish government in 1946-1948. Ethic and religious groups pointed fingers or more at each other for the others perceived or actual complicity with the Germans or the Soviets. Religious extremists carried out blood feuds across the region. We knew of this in our ethnic communities in America as many "DP's" (displaced persons) streamed into.America and Canada. Not only were Orthodox Belarussians and Lemkos persecuted in retaliation by the Roman Catholic Poles but the Greek Catholic Ukrainians and Belarussians were also deported and brutalized by their own Roman co-religionists.

So, the bitter memories of those religious pogroms had to be a part of the life story people of my generation and my children's generation (like Michal) dealt with growing up in post war Europe. Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles simply disappeared in these actions, some were never seen again, others straggled back following the collapse of communism in the 1990's.

Convert Orthodox who fail to learn and understand the histories of "ethnic" Orthodox do so at the peril of alienating cradles and converts from each other for decades.

So was Michal "there" or did he "witness" these eventualities? No, but their impact was as real.as the impact of Sherman's March to the Sea was on 20th century Americans descendent from citizens of the vanquished Confederate states.

I stand by my earlier comments, Michal is due an apology.
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #133 on: October 07, 2013, 12:23:27 PM »

Kerdy, you might want to remember that Michal's first language is not English, but Polish.  Maybe he should start posting in Polish and see how well your reading comprehension would be.  Michal, I am sorry about what happened in your family in the past
English may not be Michal's first language, but he still makes much more sense than Kerdy does. lol
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #134 on: October 07, 2013, 12:28:09 PM »

This thread is about a hamburger and not Sodomites wanting to rape angels.  I was expecting a bit more.
Logged

Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,381


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #135 on: October 07, 2013, 03:55:17 PM »

Kerdy, you might want to remember that Michal's first language is not English, but Polish.  Maybe he should start posting in Polish and see how well your reading comprehension would be.  Michal, I am sorry about what happened in your family in the past
English may not be Michal's first language, but he still makes much more sense than Kerdy does. lol

Actually, I find Michal's English quite charming, especially if read aloud.  It's a bit quirky sometimes, but it gets the job done and often enough makes me laugh and smile.  To be Orthodox is to be joyful.   
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #136 on: October 07, 2013, 07:57:42 PM »

This thread is about a hamburger and not Sodomites wanting to rape angels.  I was expecting a bit more.

+1
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #137 on: October 07, 2013, 08:27:50 PM »

Kerdy, you might want to remember that Michal's first language is not English, but Polish.  Maybe he should start posting in Polish and see how well your reading comprehension would be.  Michal, I am sorry about what happened in your family in the past
English may not be Michal's first language, but he still makes much more sense than Kerdy does. lol
If to make sense I would have to make ridiculous empt headed comments about Protestants and saltine crackers and never see beyond my nose in relation to real world issues, I'll be more than happy for the likes of you not to understand me.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #138 on: October 07, 2013, 08:33:33 PM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  

Three points:

1.  POD responded to your post where you asked Michal if he was present for the murder of members of his family by RC's.  But you didn't wait for an answer, ask what the circumstances were, etc., but ended with "Didn't think so."  Neither you nor Michal are incapable of snarky tit-for-tat, but why attempt to justify it when you're called on it?  

2.  What is it about this subject that requires a person to have had demonstrable, direct personal experience with religious persecution before their opinion can be taken seriously?  Regarding other discussion topics on this forum, opinions have been asserted by posters from less than personal experience, and similar appeals to personal experience as trumping other forms were rejected.  

3.  Roman Catholics may not have engaged in "killing sprees" in a long time, but you ought to remember or learn that in some parts of the world, such things happened within living memory.  They may not have happened in the US, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that people affected by this don't have a right to feel a certain way about it.          

Mor - you, I and many others realize that history is viewed by many Americans as an irrelevant dusty relic.

For the benefit of those who have no idea of what Michal is referring to, lives in being witnessed great brutality in the chaotic aftermath of the second world war. While they are dying off nowadays, their personal stories live on in the descendents and remain as a powerful part of the fabric of their being. The forced so-called "repatriation" of millions of ethnic Poles and Ukrainians from western Russia, Belarus and elsewhere along the border by the Soviet government resulted in brutal retaliation by the post war non communist Polish government in 1946-1948. Ethic and religious groups pointed fingers or more at each other for the others perceived or actual complicity with the Germans or the Soviets. Religious extremists carried out blood feuds across the region. We knew of this in our ethnic communities in America as many "DP's" (displaced persons) streamed into.America and Canada. Not only were Orthodox Belarussians and Lemkos persecuted in retaliation by the Roman Catholic Poles but the Greek Catholic Ukrainians and Belarussians were also deported and brutalized by their own Roman co-religionists.

So, the bitter memories of those religious pogroms had to be a part of the life story people of my generation and my children's generation (like Michal) dealt with growing up in post war Europe. Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles simply disappeared in these actions, some were never seen again, others straggled back following the collapse of communism in the 1990's.

Convert Orthodox who fail to learn and understand the histories of "ethnic" Orthodox do so at the peril of alienating cradles and converts from each other for decades.

So was Michal "there" or did he "witness" these eventualities? No, but their impact was as real.as the impact of Sherman's March to the Sea was on 20th century Americans descendent from citizens of the vanquished Confederate states.

I stand by my earlier comments, Michal is due an apology.
So he doesn't have first hand experience and he attempted to use the sympathy card based off of others experiences, which seems to have worked with you.  No apology.  He tried to take something I never said, pull a few heart strings in a pathetic attempt to make me a meanie and as usual it had nothing to do with the posts he replied to.  Hey, I had people in my family history murdered too.  Now what?  Better yet, how about everyone stick to the topic instead of chasing nonexistent rabbits down holes.  

But yeah, this is about how bad Kerdy is for not pampering someones sensitive nature and not about the smack across the face of Christianity on a daily basis that people ignore until its gone too far and too late to fix, like so many other things in the last 50 years, while those people ignore everyone else's sensitive nature.  I speak a hard truth and its unChristian while people make a mockery of Christ and everyone makes excuses as to why we shouldn't care, and this is somehow ok.  Stop being such shallow thinkers and hypocrites.

I stand by my earlier comments as well.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 08:44:01 PM by Kerdy » Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #139 on: October 07, 2013, 08:49:15 PM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  

Three points:

1.  POD responded to your post where you asked Michal if he was present for the murder of members of his family by RC's.  But you didn't wait for an answer, ask what the circumstances were, etc., but ended with "Didn't think so."  Neither you nor Michal are incapable of snarky tit-for-tat, but why attempt to justify it when you're called on it?  

2.  What is it about this subject that requires a person to have had demonstrable, direct personal experience with religious persecution before their opinion can be taken seriously?  Regarding other discussion topics on this forum, opinions have been asserted by posters from less than personal experience, and similar appeals to personal experience as trumping other forms were rejected.  

3.  Roman Catholics may not have engaged in "killing sprees" in a long time, but you ought to remember or learn that in some parts of the world, such things happened within living memory.  They may not have happened in the US, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that people affected by this don't have a right to feel a certain way about it.          

Mor - you, I and many others realize that history is viewed by many Americans as an irrelevant dusty relic.

For the benefit of those who have no idea of what Michal is referring to, lives in being witnessed great brutality in the chaotic aftermath of the second world war. While they are dying off nowadays, their personal stories live on in the descendents and remain as a powerful part of the fabric of their being. The forced so-called "repatriation" of millions of ethnic Poles and Ukrainians from western Russia, Belarus and elsewhere along the border by the Soviet government resulted in brutal retaliation by the post war non communist Polish government in 1946-1948. Ethic and religious groups pointed fingers or more at each other for the others perceived or actual complicity with the Germans or the Soviets. Religious extremists carried out blood feuds across the region. We knew of this in our ethnic communities in America as many "DP's" (displaced persons) streamed into.America and Canada. Not only were Orthodox Belarussians and Lemkos persecuted in retaliation by the Roman Catholic Poles but the Greek Catholic Ukrainians and Belarussians were also deported and brutalized by their own Roman co-religionists.

So, the bitter memories of those religious pogroms had to be a part of the life story people of my generation and my children's generation (like Michal) dealt with growing up in post war Europe. Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles simply disappeared in these actions, some were never seen again, others straggled back following the collapse of communism in the 1990's.

Convert Orthodox who fail to learn and understand the histories of "ethnic" Orthodox do so at the peril of alienating cradles and converts from each other for decades.

So was Michal "there" or did he "witness" these eventualities? No, but their impact was as real.as the impact of Sherman's March to the Sea was on 20th century Americans descendent from citizens of the vanquished Confederate states.

I stand by my earlier comments, Michal is due an apology.
So he doesn't have first hand experience and he attempted to use the sympathy card based off of others experiences, which seems to have worked with you.  No apology.  He tried to take something I never said, pull a few heart strings in a pathetic attempt to make me a meanie and as usual it had nothing to do with the posts he replied to.  Hey, I had people in my family history murdered too.  Now what?  Better yet, how about everyone stick to the topic instead of chasing nonexistent rabbits down holes.  

But yeah, this is about how bad Kerdy is for not pampering someones sensitive nature and not about the smack across the face of Christianity on a daily basis that people ignore until its gone too far and too late to fix, like so many other things in the last 50 years, while those people ignore everyone else's sensitive nature.  I speak a hard truth and its unChristian while people make a mockery of Christ and everyone makes excuses as to why we shouldn't care, and this is somehow ok.  Stop being such shallow thinkers and hypocrites.

I stand by my earlier comments as well.

What would you do or what have you done in response to such provocations and insults to the faith? And what has been the result? I'm curious because, given the fact that most people have no religious sensitivity at all, the reaction of a Christian (assuming he doesn't take the Muslim route and become violent) may or may not actually register with others.

It's more than the last 60 years. The time to effectively thwart much of what is happening today was centuries ago. Now, as St. Ignatius Brianchaninov says, all we can do is avoid evil ourselves.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #140 on: October 07, 2013, 08:58:38 PM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  

Three points:

1.  POD responded to your post where you asked Michal if he was present for the murder of members of his family by RC's.  But you didn't wait for an answer, ask what the circumstances were, etc., but ended with "Didn't think so."  Neither you nor Michal are incapable of snarky tit-for-tat, but why attempt to justify it when you're called on it?  

2.  What is it about this subject that requires a person to have had demonstrable, direct personal experience with religious persecution before their opinion can be taken seriously?  Regarding other discussion topics on this forum, opinions have been asserted by posters from less than personal experience, and similar appeals to personal experience as trumping other forms were rejected.  

3.  Roman Catholics may not have engaged in "killing sprees" in a long time, but you ought to remember or learn that in some parts of the world, such things happened within living memory.  They may not have happened in the US, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that people affected by this don't have a right to feel a certain way about it.          

Mor - you, I and many others realize that history is viewed by many Americans as an irrelevant dusty relic.

For the benefit of those who have no idea of what Michal is referring to, lives in being witnessed great brutality in the chaotic aftermath of the second world war. While they are dying off nowadays, their personal stories live on in the descendents and remain as a powerful part of the fabric of their being. The forced so-called "repatriation" of millions of ethnic Poles and Ukrainians from western Russia, Belarus and elsewhere along the border by the Soviet government resulted in brutal retaliation by the post war non communist Polish government in 1946-1948. Ethic and religious groups pointed fingers or more at each other for the others perceived or actual complicity with the Germans or the Soviets. Religious extremists carried out blood feuds across the region. We knew of this in our ethnic communities in America as many "DP's" (displaced persons) streamed into.America and Canada. Not only were Orthodox Belarussians and Lemkos persecuted in retaliation by the Roman Catholic Poles but the Greek Catholic Ukrainians and Belarussians were also deported and brutalized by their own Roman co-religionists.

So, the bitter memories of those religious pogroms had to be a part of the life story people of my generation and my children's generation (like Michal) dealt with growing up in post war Europe. Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles simply disappeared in these actions, some were never seen again, others straggled back following the collapse of communism in the 1990's.

Convert Orthodox who fail to learn and understand the histories of "ethnic" Orthodox do so at the peril of alienating cradles and converts from each other for decades.

So was Michal "there" or did he "witness" these eventualities? No, but their impact was as real.as the impact of Sherman's March to the Sea was on 20th century Americans descendent from citizens of the vanquished Confederate states.

I stand by my earlier comments, Michal is due an apology.
So he doesn't have first hand experience and he attempted to use the sympathy card based off of others experiences, which seems to have worked with you.  No apology.  He tried to take something I never said, pull a few heart strings in a pathetic attempt to make me a meanie and as usual it had nothing to do with the posts he replied to.  Hey, I had people in my family history murdered too.  Now what?  Better yet, how about everyone stick to the topic instead of chasing nonexistent rabbits down holes.  

But yeah, this is about how bad Kerdy is for not pampering someones sensitive nature and not about the smack across the face of Christianity on a daily basis that people ignore until its gone too far and too late to fix, like so many other things in the last 50 years, while those people ignore everyone else's sensitive nature.  I speak a hard truth and its unChristian while people make a mockery of Christ and everyone makes excuses as to why we shouldn't care, and this is somehow ok.  Stop being such shallow thinkers and hypocrites.

I stand by my earlier comments as well.

What good is your righteous anger if you have not love for your brother? I too stand by what I said.

Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #141 on: October 07, 2013, 09:00:46 PM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  

Three points:

1.  POD responded to your post where you asked Michal if he was present for the murder of members of his family by RC's.  But you didn't wait for an answer, ask what the circumstances were, etc., but ended with "Didn't think so."  Neither you nor Michal are incapable of snarky tit-for-tat, but why attempt to justify it when you're called on it?  

2.  What is it about this subject that requires a person to have had demonstrable, direct personal experience with religious persecution before their opinion can be taken seriously?  Regarding other discussion topics on this forum, opinions have been asserted by posters from less than personal experience, and similar appeals to personal experience as trumping other forms were rejected.  

3.  Roman Catholics may not have engaged in "killing sprees" in a long time, but you ought to remember or learn that in some parts of the world, such things happened within living memory.  They may not have happened in the US, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that people affected by this don't have a right to feel a certain way about it.          

Mor - you, I and many others realize that history is viewed by many Americans as an irrelevant dusty relic.

For the benefit of those who have no idea of what Michal is referring to, lives in being witnessed great brutality in the chaotic aftermath of the second world war. While they are dying off nowadays, their personal stories live on in the descendents and remain as a powerful part of the fabric of their being. The forced so-called "repatriation" of millions of ethnic Poles and Ukrainians from western Russia, Belarus and elsewhere along the border by the Soviet government resulted in brutal retaliation by the post war non communist Polish government in 1946-1948. Ethic and religious groups pointed fingers or more at each other for the others perceived or actual complicity with the Germans or the Soviets. Religious extremists carried out blood feuds across the region. We knew of this in our ethnic communities in America as many "DP's" (displaced persons) streamed into.America and Canada. Not only were Orthodox Belarussians and Lemkos persecuted in retaliation by the Roman Catholic Poles but the Greek Catholic Ukrainians and Belarussians were also deported and brutalized by their own Roman co-religionists.

So, the bitter memories of those religious pogroms had to be a part of the life story people of my generation and my children's generation (like Michal) dealt with growing up in post war Europe. Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles simply disappeared in these actions, some were never seen again, others straggled back following the collapse of communism in the 1990's.

Convert Orthodox who fail to learn and understand the histories of "ethnic" Orthodox do so at the peril of alienating cradles and converts from each other for decades.

So was Michal "there" or did he "witness" these eventualities? No, but their impact was as real.as the impact of Sherman's March to the Sea was on 20th century Americans descendent from citizens of the vanquished Confederate states.

I stand by my earlier comments, Michal is due an apology.
So he doesn't have first hand experience and he attempted to use the sympathy card based off of others experiences, which seems to have worked with you.  No apology.  He tried to take something I never said, pull a few heart strings in a pathetic attempt to make me a meanie and as usual it had nothing to do with the posts he replied to.  Hey, I had people in my family history murdered too.  Now what?  Better yet, how about everyone stick to the topic instead of chasing nonexistent rabbits down holes.  

But yeah, this is about how bad Kerdy is for not pampering someones sensitive nature and not about the smack across the face of Christianity on a daily basis that people ignore until its gone too far and too late to fix, like so many other things in the last 50 years, while those people ignore everyone else's sensitive nature.  I speak a hard truth and its unChristian while people make a mockery of Christ and everyone makes excuses as to why we shouldn't care, and this is somehow ok.  Stop being such shallow thinkers and hypocrites.

I stand by my earlier comments as well.

What good is your righteous anger if you have not love for your brother? I too stand by what I said.


What good is referencing history if you don't learn anything from it?

It isn't anger. It's sadness and being disgusted by comments being made by those who do not truly understand human nature or are able to see persecution for what it really is.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 09:07:38 PM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #142 on: October 07, 2013, 09:28:40 PM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but it's no different than one saying they know what war is like after hearing a story from someone who went or watching a movie.  It's disengenuous unless the person actually lived it.  Last I checked, Catholics haven't been on a killing spree for awhile.  

Three points:

1.  POD responded to your post where you asked Michal if he was present for the murder of members of his family by RC's.  But you didn't wait for an answer, ask what the circumstances were, etc., but ended with "Didn't think so."  Neither you nor Michal are incapable of snarky tit-for-tat, but why attempt to justify it when you're called on it?  

2.  What is it about this subject that requires a person to have had demonstrable, direct personal experience with religious persecution before their opinion can be taken seriously?  Regarding other discussion topics on this forum, opinions have been asserted by posters from less than personal experience, and similar appeals to personal experience as trumping other forms were rejected.  

3.  Roman Catholics may not have engaged in "killing sprees" in a long time, but you ought to remember or learn that in some parts of the world, such things happened within living memory.  They may not have happened in the US, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen or that people affected by this don't have a right to feel a certain way about it.          

Mor - you, I and many others realize that history is viewed by many Americans as an irrelevant dusty relic.

For the benefit of those who have no idea of what Michal is referring to, lives in being witnessed great brutality in the chaotic aftermath of the second world war. While they are dying off nowadays, their personal stories live on in the descendents and remain as a powerful part of the fabric of their being. The forced so-called "repatriation" of millions of ethnic Poles and Ukrainians from western Russia, Belarus and elsewhere along the border by the Soviet government resulted in brutal retaliation by the post war non communist Polish government in 1946-1948. Ethic and religious groups pointed fingers or more at each other for the others perceived or actual complicity with the Germans or the Soviets. Religious extremists carried out blood feuds across the region. We knew of this in our ethnic communities in America as many "DP's" (displaced persons) streamed into.America and Canada. Not only were Orthodox Belarussians and Lemkos persecuted in retaliation by the Roman Catholic Poles but the Greek Catholic Ukrainians and Belarussians were also deported and brutalized by their own Roman co-religionists.

So, the bitter memories of those religious pogroms had to be a part of the life story people of my generation and my children's generation (like Michal) dealt with growing up in post war Europe. Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles simply disappeared in these actions, some were never seen again, others straggled back following the collapse of communism in the 1990's.

Convert Orthodox who fail to learn and understand the histories of "ethnic" Orthodox do so at the peril of alienating cradles and converts from each other for decades.

So was Michal "there" or did he "witness" these eventualities? No, but their impact was as real.as the impact of Sherman's March to the Sea was on 20th century Americans descendent from citizens of the vanquished Confederate states.

I stand by my earlier comments, Michal is due an apology.
So he doesn't have first hand experience and he attempted to use the sympathy card based off of others experiences, which seems to have worked with you.  No apology.  He tried to take something I never said, pull a few heart strings in a pathetic attempt to make me a meanie and as usual it had nothing to do with the posts he replied to.  Hey, I had people in my family history murdered too.  Now what?  Better yet, how about everyone stick to the topic instead of chasing nonexistent rabbits down holes.  

But yeah, this is about how bad Kerdy is for not pampering someones sensitive nature and not about the smack across the face of Christianity on a daily basis that people ignore until its gone too far and too late to fix, like so many other things in the last 50 years, while those people ignore everyone else's sensitive nature.  I speak a hard truth and its unChristian while people make a mockery of Christ and everyone makes excuses as to why we shouldn't care, and this is somehow ok.  Stop being such shallow thinkers and hypocrites.

I stand by my earlier comments as well.

What would you do or what have you done in response to such provocations and insults to the faith? And what has been the result? I'm curious because, given the fact that most people have no religious sensitivity at all, the reaction of a Christian (assuming he doesn't take the Muslim route and become violent) may or may not actually register with others.

It's more than the last 60 years. The time to effectively thwart much of what is happening today was centuries ago. Now, as St. Ignatius Brianchaninov says, all we can do is avoid evil ourselves.
I that is ALL one can do...but I wonder if his words were taken a little out of context.

I don't have time to list all the possibilities of what we should or could do, but none of those possibilities involve telling people to be silent and accept it as just the way things are.  Also, why is it when anyone suggests standing up for themself someone always injects violence as a possible response?  This too is dishonest because violence is always, always a last option.  No one here, and no many people I know, would seriously suggest Chrsitian jihad so why do people immediately jump to that conclusion? (Not saying you did, just curious)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 09:32:56 PM by Kerdy » Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #143 on: October 08, 2013, 12:41:07 AM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.

Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #144 on: October 08, 2013, 01:45:51 AM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 01:46:29 AM by Kerdy » Logged
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,477


« Reply #145 on: October 08, 2013, 02:50:05 AM »

It's sadness and being disgusted by comments being made by those who do not truly understand human nature or are able to see persecution for what it really is.

Persecution? Churches in Syria are shot with mortars, that's persecution. Beheading with saws - that's persecution. Someone puts a cookie (as you said it was unconsecrated) into hamburger to get attention - it is persecution not. The problem with you is that you do not see the difference between them.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 02:54:51 AM by Michał Kalina » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,962


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #146 on: October 08, 2013, 03:57:26 AM »

It's sadness and being disgusted by comments being made by those who do not truly understand human nature or are able to see persecution for what it really is.

Persecution? Churches in Syria are shot with mortars, that's persecution. Beheading with saws - that's persecution. Someone puts a cookie (as you said it was unconsecrated) into hamburger to get attention - it is persecution not. The problem with you is that you do not see the difference between them.
I think he sees a difference. The problem is that he sees a slippery slope where none exists between an unconsecrated host on a burger and the eventuality of American churches getting shot with mortars and American Christians getting beheaded with saws. I'm just as offended by the sacrilege of seeing a host, consecrated or not, on a hamburger, but I don't see the act as necessarily a harbinger of persecutions to come.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #147 on: October 08, 2013, 06:22:15 AM »

I'm just as offended by the sacrilege of seeing a host, consecrated or not, on a hamburger,
I'm with you on that. It's such a lack in taste, no pun intended.

I'm all for people finding humor out of our religion or anyone else's, but not in bad taste though.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 06:23:02 AM by Achronos » Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #148 on: October 08, 2013, 06:25:21 AM »

It's sadness and being disgusted by comments being made by those who do not truly understand human nature or are able to see persecution for what it really is.

Persecution? Churches in Syria are shot with mortars, that's persecution. Beheading with saws - that's persecution. Someone puts a cookie (as you said it was unconsecrated) into hamburger to get attention - it is persecution not. The problem with you is that you do not see the difference between them.
Remember what I said earlier about shallow thinking and hypocrisy?  

And I don't recall stating it was or was not consecrated.  Could you point that part out for me?  My memory isn't what it once was.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 06:28:17 AM by Kerdy » Logged
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #149 on: October 08, 2013, 07:09:40 AM »

Matthew 5:11-12 (RSV)

Quote
11 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.


Not, "Blessed are they who feel offended...."
Logged

Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #150 on: October 08, 2013, 07:15:12 AM »

Matthew 5:11-12 (RSV)

Quote
11 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.


Not, "Blessed are they who feel offended...."
Not, "Blessed are those who never do anything when persecuted...", like identifying it for what it really is, talking about it, voicing their concerns, defending themselves, and ... You get the idea.  Being blessed doesn't require being submissive or for that matter completely ignorant of the persecution on the whole.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 07:16:06 AM by Kerdy » Logged
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #151 on: October 08, 2013, 07:26:32 AM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter. 

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution. 
Logged

Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #152 on: October 08, 2013, 07:45:34 AM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter. 

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution. 
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.
Logged
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #153 on: October 08, 2013, 07:59:00 AM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter. 

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution. 
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.
Ok. Smiley
Logged

podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #154 on: October 08, 2013, 10:35:28 AM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter.  

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution.  
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.

And your argument won't believe taken seriously by those who offend you nor will it mobilize most fellow Christians. Rather it serves to immunize the ears and minds of folks to real threats.

By all means Christians should object to this restaurant....first don't eat there, write a calm rebuttal....even ridicule the owner if you have to...of course. But don't turn him into a cause celebre.  Didn't anyone ever read you the stories of Chicken Little or the boy who cried wolf when you were young?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 10:36:11 AM by podkarpatska » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,962


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #155 on: October 08, 2013, 12:51:38 PM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter. 

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution. 
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.
More like calling a blade of grass a spade, IMO.
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #156 on: October 08, 2013, 03:16:39 PM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
In every thread that you post in, I think you say this to just about everyone.  Have you ever considered the possibility that what you write is simply illogical?
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,962


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #157 on: October 08, 2013, 04:01:04 PM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
In every thread that you post in, I think you say this to just about everyone.  Have you ever considered the possibility that what you write is simply illogical?
Yeah, it's funny how Kerdy's the only one around here who knows how to read. laugh
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 04:01:28 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #158 on: October 08, 2013, 08:35:14 PM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
In every thread that you post in, I think you say this to just about everyone.  Have you ever considered the possibility that what you write is simply illogical?
I did and realized people no longer can read.

PTL understands what I'm saying (which is rare and surprising in itself), he just disagrees.  What's your excuse?  For instance, you replied I was angry (or suggest angry responses) after I explained I wasn't.  Learn to read.  Keep on trucking through like with an apathetic attitude and a smug grin on your face.  Do it for as long as you can and enjoy it, because one day it will end and you won't be trying to make witty comments anymore.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 08:46:23 PM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #159 on: October 08, 2013, 08:41:34 PM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter.  

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution.  
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.

And your argument won't believe taken seriously by those who offend you nor will it mobilize most fellow Christians. Rather it serves to immunize the ears and minds of folks to real threats.

By all means Christians should object to this restaurant....first don't eat there, write a calm rebuttal....even ridicule the owner if you have to...of course. But don't turn him into a cause celebre.  Didn't anyone ever read you the stories of Chicken Little or the boy who cried wolf when you were young?
The difference is I see a problem (which is growing daily) you see a nuisance.  You don't understand there are ways to fight back that are effective without acting like nutjobs.  But it doesn't matter.  Roll over and take it write your letters which get placed into file 13.  That's why the world is the way it is and why it will continue to get worse.  Like I said earlier, just don't complain when it cuts into the quick of something personal to you.  By then it's too late.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #160 on: October 08, 2013, 08:48:44 PM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter. 

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution. 
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.
Ok. Smiley
Ah, progress.  When two individuals allow each other their opinion without argument.  A good day! Grin
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #161 on: October 08, 2013, 09:46:58 PM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter.  

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution.  
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.

And your argument won't believe taken seriously by those who offend you nor will it mobilize most fellow Christians. Rather it serves to immunize the ears and minds of folks to real threats.

By all means Christians should object to this restaurant....first don't eat there, write a calm rebuttal....even ridicule the owner if you have to...of course. But don't turn him into a cause celebre.  Didn't anyone ever read you the stories of Chicken Little or the boy who cried wolf when you were young?
The difference is I see a problem (which is growing daily) you see a nuisance.  You don't understand there are ways to fight back that are effective without acting like nutjobs.  But it doesn't matter.  Roll over and take it write your letters which get placed into file 13.  That's why the world is the way it is and why it will continue to get worse.  Like I said earlier, just don't complain when it cuts into the quick of something personal to you.  By then it's too late.

You know the answers? Show your hand instead of insulting others who don't quite see things the way you do.

What's your plan?  Share it with the great unwashed masses.



Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #162 on: October 08, 2013, 09:55:31 PM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter.  

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution.  
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.

And your argument won't believe taken seriously by those who offend you nor will it mobilize most fellow Christians. Rather it serves to immunize the ears and minds of folks to real threats.

By all means Christians should object to this restaurant....first don't eat there, write a calm rebuttal....even ridicule the owner if you have to...of course. But don't turn him into a cause celebre.  Didn't anyone ever read you the stories of Chicken Little or the boy who cried wolf when you were young?
The difference is I see a problem (which is growing daily) you see a nuisance.  You don't understand there are ways to fight back that are effective without acting like nutjobs.  But it doesn't matter.  Roll over and take it write your letters which get placed into file 13.  That's why the world is the way it is and why it will continue to get worse.  Like I said earlier, just don't complain when it cuts into the quick of something personal to you.  By then it's too late.

You know the answers? Show your hand instead of insulting others who don't quite see things the way you do.

What's your plan?  Share it with the great unwashed masses.




You get what you ask for or allow to take place.  Enjoy it when it arrives.

I know a lot if answers but why continue to toss pearls before swine?  People don't listen.  If they can't understand the problem they won't understand the solution.  As for insults, pay closer attention.
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #163 on: October 08, 2013, 09:59:35 PM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter.  

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution.  
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.

And your argument won't believe taken seriously by those who offend you nor will it mobilize most fellow Christians. Rather it serves to immunize the ears and minds of folks to real threats.

By all means Christians should object to this restaurant....first don't eat there, write a calm rebuttal....even ridicule the owner if you have to...of course. But don't turn him into a cause celebre.  Didn't anyone ever read you the stories of Chicken Little or the boy who cried wolf when you were young?
The difference is I see a problem (which is growing daily) you see a nuisance.  You don't understand there are ways to fight back that are effective without acting like nutjobs.  But it doesn't matter.  Roll over and take it write your letters which get placed into file 13.  That's why the world is the way it is and why it will continue to get worse.  Like I said earlier, just don't complain when it cuts into the quick of something personal to you.  By then it's too late.

You know the answers? Show your hand instead of insulting others who don't quite see things the way you do.

What's your plan?  Share it with the great unwashed masses.




You get what you ask for or allow to take place.  Enjoy it when it arrives.

I know a lot if answers but why continue to toss pearls before swine?  People don't listen.  If they can't understand the problem they won't understand the solution.  As for insults, pay closer attention.

Proverbs16:18 seems apropos.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #164 on: October 08, 2013, 10:02:47 PM »


Just don't complain when "every little thing" turns into something important to you or when you find your free ability to worship without intrusion gone.  Mockery is always followed by something and that something is directly dependent on the reaction of those being mocked.  

I reiterate my earlier post for those unable to understand it the first time.

In other words, if you do nothing, ignore the problem, fail at humorous remarks in an attempt to make people see how smart you think you are, ridicule those who see the danger, etc, you lose your right to moan later.

...but it's just against the Catholics so who cares, right?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 10:08:04 PM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #165 on: October 08, 2013, 10:03:25 PM »

I don't think anyone is being ignorant of persecution.  It's just that you interpret this instance as persecution.  If you want to do something about, write a letter.  

The hamburger thing is annoying and stupid, but no one is being forced to eat it during a Mass under pain of death.  That would be persecution.  
You continue to make excuses ignoring what's really happening and I will continue to call a spade a spade.

And your argument won't believe taken seriously by those who offend you nor will it mobilize most fellow Christians. Rather it serves to immunize the ears and minds of folks to real threats.

By all means Christians should object to this restaurant....first don't eat there, write a calm rebuttal....even ridicule the owner if you have to...of course. But don't turn him into a cause celebre.  Didn't anyone ever read you the stories of Chicken Little or the boy who cried wolf when you were young?
The difference is I see a problem (which is growing daily) you see a nuisance.  You don't understand there are ways to fight back that are effective without acting like nutjobs.  But it doesn't matter.  Roll over and take it write your letters which get placed into file 13.  That's why the world is the way it is and why it will continue to get worse.  Like I said earlier, just don't complain when it cuts into the quick of something personal to you.  By then it's too late.

You know the answers? Show your hand instead of insulting others who don't quite see things the way you do.

What's your plan?  Share it with the great unwashed masses.




You get what you ask for or allow to take place.  Enjoy it when it arrives.

I know a lot if answers but why continue to toss pearls before swine?  People don't listen.  If they can't understand the problem they won't understand the solution.  As for insults, pay closer attention.

Proverbs16:18 seems apropos.
I'm sure it does, but not for the reasons you think.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 10:05:45 PM by Kerdy » Logged
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,628



« Reply #166 on: October 08, 2013, 10:17:09 PM »

you lose your right to moan later.

This is probably the only "right" you and yours around here truly do cherish.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 10:17:47 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #167 on: October 08, 2013, 10:54:59 PM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
In every thread that you post in, I think you say this to just about everyone.  Have you ever considered the possibility that what you write is simply illogical?
Yeah, it's funny how Kerdy's the only one around here who knows how to read. laugh

I want to reply to this, but I'm not sure what it means...where's Kerdy when you need him?
Logged

TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #168 on: October 09, 2013, 12:05:15 AM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
In every thread that you post in, I think you say this to just about everyone.  Have you ever considered the possibility that what you write is simply illogical?
I did and realized people no longer can read.

PTL understands what I'm saying (which is rare and surprising in itself), he just disagrees.  What's your excuse?  For instance, you replied I was angry (or suggest angry responses) after I explained I wasn't.  Learn to read.  Keep on trucking through like with an apathetic attitude and a smug grin on your face.  Do it for as long as you can and enjoy it, because one day it will end and you won't be trying to make witty comments anymore.
Just because you say you aren't angry doesn't make it so.  I am not obligated to believe everything you say.  You seriously need to get back on your meds because your blood pressure has got to be way high.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #169 on: October 09, 2013, 12:27:11 AM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
In every thread that you post in, I think you say this to just about everyone.  Have you ever considered the possibility that what you write is simply illogical?
I did and realized people no longer can read.

PTL understands what I'm saying (which is rare and surprising in itself), he just disagrees.  What's your excuse?  For instance, you replied I was angry (or suggest angry responses) after I explained I wasn't.  Learn to read.  Keep on trucking through like with an apathetic attitude and a smug grin on your face.  Do it for as long as you can and enjoy it, because one day it will end and you won't be trying to make witty comments anymore.
Just because you say you aren't angry doesn't make it so.  I am not obligated to believe everything you say.  You seriously need to get back on your meds because your blood pressure has got to be way high.
You fulfill your expected duties as previously described perfectly.  Congratulations.
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,486



« Reply #170 on: October 09, 2013, 12:35:04 AM »

Kerdy has convinced me, we need more anger about this.  This is the new me responding.
You don't read well, do you?
In every thread that you post in, I think you say this to just about everyone.  Have you ever considered the possibility that what you write is simply illogical?
I did and realized people no longer can read.

PTL understands what I'm saying (which is rare and surprising in itself), he just disagrees.  What's your excuse?  For instance, you replied I was angry (or suggest angry responses) after I explained I wasn't.  Learn to read.  Keep on trucking through like with an apathetic attitude and a smug grin on your face.  Do it for as long as you can and enjoy it, because one day it will end and you won't be trying to make witty comments anymore.
Just because you say you aren't angry doesn't make it so.  I am not obligated to believe everything you say.  You seriously need to get back on your meds because your blood pressure has got to be way high.
You fulfill your expected duties as previously described perfectly.  Congratulations.

 Kiss
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #171 on: October 09, 2013, 12:50:21 AM »

Careful now, gents...to hear some people tell it, that whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing started with men making kissy faces at each other.
Logged

Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #172 on: October 09, 2013, 01:31:01 AM »

Careful now, gents...to hear some people tell it, that whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing started with men making kissy faces at each other.
That actually made me chuckle.  Thanks!
Logged
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 6,917


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #173 on: October 09, 2013, 07:26:59 AM »

Careful now, gents...to hear some people tell it, that whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing started with men making kissy faces at each other.

And quickly escalated to fire and brimstone.  Yikes.
Logged

alexpetros
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 146


Go sábhála Dia Éire.


WWW
« Reply #174 on: October 09, 2013, 10:24:21 PM »

 Undecided
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 10:25:43 PM by alexpetros » Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #175 on: October 09, 2013, 10:32:31 PM »

This thread went about the way I expected.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
alexpetros
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 146


Go sábhála Dia Éire.


WWW
« Reply #176 on: October 09, 2013, 10:43:46 PM »

Hitler may have been baptized/confirmed Catholic, but he hated the Church.

Doesn't mean he still didn't manipulate tons of Roman Catholics into supporting him and the fact that the Vatican itself supported him.

Quote
And there many, many Catholic clerics that did what they could to protect and hide Jews during World War II. Maybe you should think before you post.

And an even larger number--including the Pope--who helped Nazis escape justice and supported Hitler.

Flat out false. Sorry.
Logged
Jonathan Gress
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,689


« Reply #177 on: October 09, 2013, 11:37:02 PM »

Just to remind everyone that an unconsecrated Catholic communion wafer does have the sign of the Cross printed on it, so using it disrespectfully is a form of sacrilege also from our point of view, even if not as grave as disrespecting the consecrated bread.

We live in a culture when people are outraged and offended by all sorts of things, real or imagined: racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, transphobia, sizeism, ageism, you name it. I think we have the right to be outraged and offended by slights against our faith, or are we going to be the only community in the country that doesn't stand up for itself?

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.
Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #178 on: October 10, 2013, 12:03:19 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.
Logged

orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,628



« Reply #179 on: October 10, 2013, 12:13:29 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.

If it were unthinkable, you wouldn't get extra credit for not doing it.

And ain't never gonna happen and never was.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #180 on: October 10, 2013, 12:15:29 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.
Because this has worked out so well in the past up until now...We have people within the Church who blasphemy and practice sacrilege daily.  People already understand, which is why they choose the methods they choose.

Use their own weapons against them.  I agree with JG's post completely.  He has his thinking cap on today.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 12:17:43 AM by Kerdy » Logged
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,628



« Reply #181 on: October 10, 2013, 12:18:33 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.
Because this has worked out so well in the past up until now...

Use their own weapons against them.  I agree with JG's post completely.  He has his thinking cap on today.

I don't think he has any other cap and never takes it off.

Really Kerdy, even when he is wrong, unlike yourself, it is apparent he has done more than a little thinking though the issues. He is probably constitutionally incapable of doing otherwise.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #182 on: October 10, 2013, 12:20:54 AM »

If only more people were capable of thinking their way out of a wet paper bag.
Logged
Jonathan Gress
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,689


« Reply #183 on: October 10, 2013, 12:21:37 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.

If you make it illegal and punish people for thinking it, it will become unthinkable. It's worked so well for racism, after all. But sure, try evangelism, too. Probably can't hurt.

The problem is some of us are still thinking of ourselves as the outraged majority Christian population. That's just asking to be licked. Instead, it's all about minority rights these days. We Orthodox already have some of our work done for us: we're a minority, and crucially, we're not Western. Sure the Christian bit doesn't help, but just emphasize how un-Western we are and that should do it. Bonus points for showing how we're victims of Orientalism/colonialism. Don't talk about how blaspheming the Cross offends ordinary human decency; talk about how it offends our traditions and culture, which have already been oppressed by the West in so many ways.

Soon they won't be talking about stealth sharia, but about stealth canons!
Logged
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,628



« Reply #184 on: October 10, 2013, 12:25:20 AM »

If only more people were capable of thinking their way out of a wet paper bag.

Kerdy, one liners aren't supposed to suggest one is unable to think beyond 45 syllables.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #185 on: October 10, 2013, 12:33:49 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.

If you make it illegal and punish people for thinking it, it will become unthinkable. It's worked so well for racism, after all. But sure, try evangelism, too. Probably can't hurt.

The problem is some of us are still thinking of ourselves as the outraged majority Christian population. That's just asking to be licked. Instead, it's all about minority rights these days. We Orthodox already have some of our work done for us: we're a minority, and crucially, we're not Western. Sure the Christian bit doesn't help, but just emphasize how un-Western we are and that should do it. Bonus points for showing how we're victims of Orientalism/colonialism. Don't talk about how blaspheming the Cross offends ordinary human decency; talk about how it offends our traditions and culture, which have already been oppressed by the West in so many ways.

Soon they won't be talking about stealth sharia, but about stealth canons!
That would be interesting, but I imagine many even within the Church would protest.
Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #186 on: October 10, 2013, 01:41:47 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

Close, but way off.

We should totally evangelize to make blasphemy and sacrilege unthinkable, and to make repentance and reconciliation irresistible.

If you make it illegal and punish people for thinking it, it will become unthinkable. It's worked so well for racism, after all. But sure, try evangelism, too. Probably can't hurt.

What? That's not what I meant. I meant if you evangelize people effectively they'll see on their own why blasphemy and sacrilege are wrong, and either never think of doing such thing in the first place, or come to repentance for having done/thought them. It's not about making thoughts a crime.

Quote
The problem is some of us are still thinking of ourselves as the outraged majority Christian population. That's just asking to be licked. Instead, it's all about minority rights these days. We Orthodox already have some of our work done for us: we're a minority, and crucially, we're not Western.

Speak for yourself; I'm western and Orthodox (not to be confused with "Western Orthodox").

Quote
Sure the Christian bit doesn't help, but just emphasize how un-Western we are and that should do it. Bonus points for showing how we're victims of Orientalism/colonialism. Don't talk about how blaspheming the Cross offends ordinary human decency; talk about how it offends our traditions and culture, which have already been oppressed by the West in so many ways.

Soon they won't be talking about stealth sharia, but about stealth canons!

Cute, but I think winning a game of sympathy bingo would over time come to backfire on us. There are fashions of thought, after all, and eventually Eastern Christianity would be out and something else would sweep in and we would all be compelled to treat that as sacred instead, no matter how awful it is. Who could have imagined 100-200 years ago that there would be washrooms specifically designed for muslims to perform their ablutions on many college campuses, for instance? I for one don't want to be patronized for belonging to a non-Western church so much as I want to see equal rights exist in practice irregardless of religion, not the current mess where all are equal but some are more equal than others. I don't think you get that by saying "But we're not Westerners, either, so we deserve to be treated with the same genteelness with which you treat Muslims!" We're not as weak as Muslims, for one thing. We don't need to be treated like special little snowflakes, or for everyone to tip-toe around our religion under threat of violence. In fact (and I've written as much before on this board), I think that could do more to bring people to the defense of Orthodox Christianity (and possible conversion to it) than any attempt to paint ourselves as "other" than the West: That we have a religion that is every bit as serious and sacred as the other major non-Western religion is to its own followers, but that doesn't involve having to make laws to protect our oh-so-sensitive feelings, and you'll probably never have to worry about an Orthodox Middle Easterner killing you (unless you're Bobby Kennedy, I guess), and we're not keen on fetishizing the lifestyles of the nomadic and illiterate. I would think that these are things that most in the West would be able to appreciate, given the alternative, and they're not dependent on whoever can make themselves seem more pathetic in the eyes of patronizing PC westerners (which I guarantee you is a game that the followers of Muhammad will win every single time; it's practically in their DNA by this point...we ought not even try to play).

Logged

Jonathan Gress
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,689


« Reply #187 on: October 10, 2013, 02:09:07 AM »

OK I was being sarcastic for the most part, which was probably not a good thing, so I apologize for scandalizing you. But I did start thinking about this somewhat seriously, and especially on how liberals get very confused about, e.g. Muslim women who apparently freely choose to wear modest clothing/hijab. I figured that you can fly under the PC radar if you identify as a minority culture; ethnic minorities get at least a certain degree of protection from the general assault on traditional values. Simply market your traditional values as minority values and you'll do OK. Minority status has more cachet if you're not of Western European origin, or if your faith isn't at any rate.

Also, your full-throated defense of the freedom to offend and be offended would sound great at a Libertarian Party convention, but it's not the way we dealt with dissent back when we had Orthodox rulers. Issues were kept simple back then: Christianity was right, everything else was wrong. That means on the one hand that Christians would rather die than apostasize, but it also meant that, once in charge, we didn't care about the sensibilities of Jews and pagans.

But every age is going to have its orthodoxies and its heresies. These days it's a heresy for a Westerner to believe men and women have different assigned roles in society, but if you make it clear that you are e.g. a Muslim, to whom Western values like gender equality don't apply, then you can get away with things like head-coverings and 70 virgin houris in paradise. I'm saying that maybe we can adapt to the political Zeitgeist just enough for self-protection; think of it as rendering to Caesar.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:11:39 AM by Jonathan Gress » Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #188 on: October 10, 2013, 02:22:10 AM »

OK I was being sarcastic for the most part, which was probably not a good thing, so I apologize for scandalizing you. But I did start thinking about this somewhat seriously, and especially on how liberals get very confused about, e.g. Muslim women who apparently freely choose to wear modest clothing/hijab. I figured that you can fly under the PC radar if you identify as a minority culture; ethnic minorities get at least a certain degree of protection from the general assault on traditional values. Simply market your traditional values as minority values and you'll do OK. Minority status has more cachet if you're not of Western European origin, or if your faith isn't at any rate.

You're probably right, but my point was that I'd rather evangelize than revel in being a religious minority.

Quote
Also, your full-throated defense of the freedom to offend and be offended would sound great at a Libertarian Party convention, but it's not the way we dealt with dissent back when we had Orthodox rulers.


Who's this "we" -- you got the Hagia Sophia in your pocket?

Quote
Issues were kept simple back then: Christianity was right, everything else was wrong. That means on the one hand that Christians would rather die than apostasize, but it also meant that, once in charge, we didn't care about the sensibilities of Jews and pagans.

Hmm. I'm not sure things like St. Basil's treatise on the use of pagan literature by Christians (4th century) completely fit in with your characterization of the relationship between Orthodoxy and paganism, but okay. How you have presented things certainly is simple, anyway.

Quote
But every age is going to have its orthodoxies and its heresies. These days it's a heresy for a Westerner to believe men and women have different assigned roles in society, but if you make it clear that you are e.g. a Muslim, to whom Western values like gender equality don't apply, then you can get away with things like head-coverings


Nothing is wrong with headcoverings. Just ask your local older Tewahedo ladies.

Quote
and 70 virgin houris in paradise.


Whereas this is just a lack of foresight on Ar-Rahman's part...
 
Quote
I'm saying that maybe we can adapt to the political Zeitgeist just enough for self-protection; think of it as rendering to Caesar.

Hmm...I don't see how that is rendering unto Caesar, but okay.
Logged

PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,962


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #189 on: October 10, 2013, 02:34:09 AM »

If only more people were capable of thinking their way out of a wet paper bag.
Let me think about this a bit...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:46:41 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Jonathan Gress
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,689


« Reply #190 on: October 10, 2013, 02:38:55 AM »

No I don't have Hagia Sophia in my pocket, although I do know where you can visit a miniature version not too long from now:

http://www.ascensionmonastery.org/hagia-sophia/

I was thinking about things like the Theodosian decrees on pagan sacrifice and public worship and the various legal burdens put on pagans and Jews. True they were never completely outlawed, but we didn't say "well we Orthodox are strong enough to deal with criticism"; we said "we Orthodox now wield the temporal sword, so you pagan and Jewish losers better do as you're told." Tolerance is a sucker's game, and liberals know this all too well, which is why they don't tolerate dissent from their own orthodoxy. When you're in power, you use it or you lose it.

I think what St Basil says about Greek literature is quite compatible. Even losers can write great literature. The Muslims thought so, too.

I agree that identifying as a minority can have drawbacks, since Orthodoxy is still, supposedly, an evangelical faith. But Muslims and Buddhists have won Western converts, and many Westerners are attracted to them because they're alien and exotic. I admit that was part of my initial attraction to Orthodoxy, and we can certainly play up our non-Westernness at times (e.g. Western Christianity is awful because it teaches inherited guilt, or has lost a sense of mysticism, etc).

I move in very liberal circles, and when you bring up family values, our Christian heritage etc that just turns them off completely and makes them hostile. When you present your faith as something different from this heritage, they are more open and accepting. The thing is that liberals are possessed by a pathological cultural self-hatred, directed at their own religious background. Whereas in just about every other evangelical situation in history, Christian missionaries have tried to accommodate Christian doctrine to local cultural sensibilities where possible, among modern liberals, the last thing you want to do is show them how Orthodoxy is similar to the Christianity of their immediate ancestors.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 02:40:14 AM by Jonathan Gress » Logged
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,477


« Reply #191 on: October 10, 2013, 06:46:43 AM »

We should totally campaign to make blasphemy and sacrilege hate crimes.

When RCs claim they are the true Church is this blasphemy that should be penalised? And how to do that in a 90%+ RC country?
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,812


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #192 on: October 10, 2013, 08:25:54 AM »