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Author Topic: Have we reached OUR sodom and Ghamorah?  (Read 5168 times) Average Rating: 0
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JoeS2
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« on: October 04, 2013, 12:22:25 PM »

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Chicago-burger-garnished-with-communion-wafer

(AP) Chicago burger garnished with communion wafer
 By CARYN ROUSSEAU
 Associated Press
 CHICAGO
 A Chicago restaurant has cooked up a controversial burger of the month for October, garnishing it with an unconsecrated communion wafer and a red wine reduction sauce.

Too long quote edited - MK.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:26:49 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2013, 12:33:06 PM »

Yes, people may have a wide variety of things they find amusing or entertaining but for me the 'wafer' offering begs the question, 'why'?

I feel less and less appears to be worthy of respect or dignity, whether it is ourselves, each other or symbols. But then I might just be grumpy because of my years and a sense that too many appear to know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

OK, grumble over.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:33:40 PM by Santagranddad » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2013, 12:37:45 PM »

Yes, people may have a wide variety of things they find amusing or entertaining but for me the 'wafer' offering begs the question, 'why'?

I feel less and less appears to be worthy of respect or dignity, whether it is ourselves, each other or symbols. But then I might just be grumpy because of my years and a sense that too many appear to know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

OK, grumble over.

I look at it as another chance by modern society to desecrate what is holy and good.  Unfortunately, we don't have enough people who would actually confront this restaurant and condemn them for this , or not patronize them.  Hit them in the purse and they may not want to repeat such stunts.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 12:39:30 PM by JoeS2 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2013, 12:44:19 PM »

If you really want to bring this restaurant a ton of business, set up a "Christian" protest in front of it.
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2013, 01:05:03 PM »

I don't see how putting a wafer on a hamburger constitutes as reaching "our" Sodom and Gomorrah.  Disrespectful? Yes.  Hokey?  Beyond what I can even imagine at the moment.  The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2013, 01:14:25 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2013, 01:16:09 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder

I just chortled.  Thank you. Grin

I have a box of Protestant communion at home.  Do you need a sleeve of crackers?
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2013, 01:22:40 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?

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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2013, 01:23:39 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?


I wouldn't.
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 01:36:06 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2013, 01:39:50 PM »

The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 

What do you mean?
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2013, 01:45:23 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quiet on a number of things.
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2013, 01:47:08 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2013, 01:47:26 PM »

The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 

What do you mean?

He sees the Eucharist as "symbol."  In normal usage, a flag is indeed a symbol.  If burned, it's an insult to the country/institution it represents.  The man's comment tells me less about why the Eucharist is truly important/sacred and more about how the misuse of a symbol offends him.
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2013, 01:48:11 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

Heresy! Grin  It's bread!  It's meant to be eaten.
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2013, 01:50:13 PM »

Quote

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.
If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Unfortunately, it is too late.  Look at the society around you.  All we can do is continue to trust in God and pray to Him as we wait for our deaths or His coming.
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2013, 01:52:26 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Or maybe we don't feel the need to act outraged and victimized about every stupid attention grabbing thing that non-believers try to pull.  No one would have ever heard of this or bought it until it hit the news.  Now, it is given exposure and a forum for mockery.  This is what the religious right doesn't understand.  The more your protest, the happier you make the people mocking.  They are looking for exposure, not a sincere dialogue.
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2013, 01:58:03 PM »

Quote

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.
If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.

Unfortunately, it is too late. Look at the society around you.  All we can do is continue to trust in God and pray to Him as we wait for our deaths or His coming.

I disagree.  It's never too late.

If our faith is true, then we have to believe that it is never too late.  As long as the trumpets haven't sounded, and there's breath in our lungs...it's not too late to make a positive difference.

However, I agree with TheTrisagion to a point.  We aren't like the Muslims who feel the need to destroy an entire village because someone might have dishonored their prophet, or something.  We are forgiving....but, yet....we need to be:

"Gentle as doves, and wise as serpents."

There is a point when we cannot simply shut up and watch the world rot around us...

There's a time when tolerance and acceptance must have a limit.
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2013, 01:58:58 PM »

Do I desecrate the Protestant communion when I put saltine crackers in my soup?

#thoughtstoponder

These folks who do this, do it for a specific reason or a specific reaction.  And, I guess he is getting it.  Even knowing that this is a pre consecrated host it would still be an insult to any Catholic or Orthodox for that matter.  I would caution not to treat this little occasion too lightly since we are seeing a steady but progressive degradation of society.
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2013, 01:59:05 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



What is prosphora?  Bread (a really basic plain loaf) that's baked with a seal in it, right?  So if some dummy bought a prosphora seal off Ebay and started making buns with a seal on it for his burgers, guess what?  I wouldn't be buying anything from him, much less a pseudo-prosphora bacon cheeseburger.  I wouldn't need to say anything except, "Lord, have mercy," and continue on with my life.

But, why wouldn't you voice protest against ridiculing and belittling something associated with your Faith?

If we can't be bothered to speak out about such little and seemingly silly issues, they will grow in number, until it's too late to voice opposition.

If even the faithful of the Church don't care enough to oppose it, why should anyone else?  If you aren't against it, than you must be for it.

I think the Orthodox faithful are way too quite on a number of things.


+1

Post of the Month Nominee.

This happened in Hitler Germany. No one defended the Jews or so the quote by a Protestant minister goes.
Does anyone remember the name of that Protestant and his quote?
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2013, 02:04:08 PM »

Martin-Niemöller, a Lutheran minister-

Quote
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

He was no defender of Jews, IIRC.
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2013, 02:04:43 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Don't say this too loud, it may give them ideas....... Undecided
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2013, 02:05:02 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2013, 02:07:53 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?



Don't say this too loud, it may give them ideas....... Undecided

Trader Joes' offers organic whole wheat Pain Pascal (Paschal bread) in mini and regular size.
The mini is delicious used as a bun. Our priest said that it could be used for the Eucharist and for antidoron in a pinch when none is available.
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 02:11:31 PM »

The comment:
Quote
It's in poor taste, said Jeff Young of New Orleans who runs the blog Catholic Foodie.

"It's not, for us, the Eucharist," Young said. "However this wafer is a symbol. There's a cross on it. It's like taking a flag and burning a flag."

tells me a lot more of how he, as a Catholic, views the Eucharist. 

What do you mean?

He sees the Eucharist as "symbol."  In normal usage, a flag is indeed a symbol.  If burned, it's an insult to the country/institution it represents.  The man's comment tells me less about why the Eucharist is truly important/sacred and more about how the misuse of a symbol offends him.

I didn't read his comment to say that he sees the Eucharist as a symbol (i.e., something that stands for something else, but not the real thing).  I read it as his pointing out that the wafer on the burger isn't consecrated, is not the Eucharist, and so it may not be a sacrilege in that specific sense.  But because it is a communion wafer, it represents the Eucharist, and so to use it as an accent for a burger is an attack on what is symbolised by it.  I think it's motivated by his faith in the Eucharist, not by a misappropriation of a symbol.    
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2013, 02:15:48 PM »

There was a time when we'd burn these people and their bacondoubleblasphemyburgers.  /Nostalgia.
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2013, 02:16:11 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.
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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2013, 02:17:09 PM »

There was a time when we'd burn these people and their bacondoubleblasphemyburgers.  /Nostalgia.

Is that what Wendy's is calling the Baconator now?
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« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2013, 02:19:29 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.

My intention was humour.  Wink
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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2013, 02:29:46 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.

My intention was humour.  Wink
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« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2013, 02:31:24 PM »

How would you respond if a restaurant started offering a sandwich with Phosphora for a bun?

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

When too many prosphoras pile up in church and there's no Liturgy over the week to use them, we get some to eat at home. Otherwise they'd just go bad, even in the mini-refrigerator where we keep them.
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« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2013, 02:34:50 PM »



While the beard is appropriate, he looks too happy to actually be Orthodox. 
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« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2013, 02:36:53 PM »

Ugh.  I hope this isn't a crime against the Lord.  I have made "practice loafs" in case I ever had to make one for Church, including the seal since getting it to come out right is 75% of what needs practice.  I then ate these loaves as part of my meals for the next couple of days.

I have always eaten my practice loaves, but never with meals.  God hates you.  
The key here is intention.

My intention was humour.  Wink
You are apostate for putting a second "u" in humour.  And you call yourself an American. HRMPH!!!  Angry
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« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2013, 02:37:32 PM »



While the beard is appropriate, he looks too happy to actually be Orthodox. 
IIRC, he's actually some kind of modern-day reconstruction of the Essenes. One of his disciples trolled here for a while during your absence.
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« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2013, 02:40:10 PM »

If you really want to bring this restaurant a ton of business, set up a "Christian" protest in front of it.
How long was it after Seanad O'Connor tore up the picture of Pope John Paul II that she had to leave town?

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.
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« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2013, 02:41:07 PM »



While the beard is appropriate, he looks too happy to actually be Orthodox. 
IIRC, he's actually some kind of modern-day reconstruction of the Essenes. One of his disciples trolled here for a while during your absence.

He holds his hands in a Protestant or Buddhist manner.

Is Outrage!

Did Orthodox Christians in Russia employ the praying hands of the Reformation?
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« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2013, 02:43:47 PM »

You are apostate for putting a second "u" in humour.  And you call yourself an American. HRMPH!!!  Angry

LOL!  "Hum" + "or" =/= hyoo'muhr, and you're complaining about an extra "u".  Whatever.  Tongue    
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« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2013, 02:44:38 PM »

IIRC, he's actually some kind of modern-day reconstruction of the Essenes. One of his disciples trolled here for a while during your absence.

How did I miss so much fun?
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« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2013, 02:47:34 PM »

You are apostate for putting a second "u" in humour.  And you call yourself an American. HRMPH!!!  Angry

LOL!  "Hum" + "or" =/= hyoo'muhr, and you're complaining about an extra "u".  Whatever.  Tongue    
If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

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« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2013, 02:48:52 PM »

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.

I think it's pretty clear that the wafer was added for one reason and one reason only.  It wasn't for flavour, texture, colour, or anything else: it adds none of those things to what looks, on this Friday, like a great burger.  The host is there to provoke and to poke fun.  It is there because it is a host, not just a random wafer, even if unconsecrated.  And that is disgusting.    
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« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2013, 02:49:57 PM »

If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism

Noted. 
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« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2013, 02:50:47 PM »

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.

I think it's pretty clear that the wafer was added for one reason and one reason only.  It wasn't for flavour, texture, colour, or anything else: it adds none of those things to what looks, on this Friday, like a great burger.  The host is there to provoke and to poke fun.  It is there because it is a host, not just a random wafer, even if unconsecrated.  And that is disgusting.    

^ Exactly!
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« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2013, 02:53:37 PM »

Around town, people are pretty disgusted by this.  Not enough sophisticados to provide a ton of business.

I think it's pretty clear that the wafer was added for one reason and one reason only.  It wasn't for flavour, texture, colour, or anything else: it adds none of those things to what looks, on this Friday, like a great burger.  The host is there to provoke and to poke fun.  It is there because it is a host, not just a random wafer, even if unconsecrated.  And that is disgusting.    

^ Exactly!
Indeed. My first reaction was they have no flavor, no texture, and stick to the roof of your mouth.
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« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2013, 02:54:36 PM »

If you are going to live in the greatest country that has ever existed or ever will exist, you better get used to the suprior spelling.

#channelingJamesRexceptionalism

Noted. 
LOL!  Epic fail on my part.  laugh
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« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2013, 03:00:38 PM »

Indeed. My first reaction was they have no flavor, no texture, and stick to the roof of your mouth.

When I was in seminary, a classmate and I went to a Catholic supply store.  I bought a copy of Taft's book on the Liturgy of the Hours (pleasure reading), and he bought a few things.  One of those things was a plastic bag of 120 hosts he picked up for five bucks.  We've never received Catholic communion, and he was intrigued when he saw the variety of hosts available.  We drove back, and for about an hour before Vespers, he and I sat in his car with the windows down drinking Cherry Coke and eating hosts.  We confirmed that they have no flavour, texture, are entirely un-appetizing, and that eating unconsecrated hosts is just weird. 
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