Author Topic: What to wear around the altar?  (Read 3766 times)

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Offline arimethea

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2013, 09:33:09 AM »
Those who say slacks are only "X" amont of dollars haven't ever gone without a meal where $14 meant whether or not you ate. Would you choose slacks for the altar or your kids a meal?

I am sorry to say this, but it sounds like pride is getting in your way here. There are plenty of thrift shops, and charitable organizations that provide children's clothing for cheap and even free. If you really are struggling financially, then take advantage of resources set up to support you. Even a homeless person is able to get a clean, nice set of clothes if they want them.
Joseph

Offline genesisone

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2013, 09:50:24 AM »
It seems to me that when a man is being prepared for a blessing to serve in the altar - doesn't matter that he be eight or eighty - that proper dress should be part of the discussion. If genuine financial difficulties prevent the server from acquiring what he needs, then why can't the church provide such for his use? As has been pointed out, there are many places where clothing can be obtained cheaply or easily. These items can be left at the church for church use only, except of course for the occasional laundering.

That being said, I doubt that this idea will gather an enthusiastic response, which leads me to agree with those who are pointing out that our choice of attire is a matter of personal pride.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2013, 09:56:59 AM »
I think it's only appropriate to worry about what other people are wearing to church if you're also willing to worry about what they're eating on Fridays, what sort of language they're using, what they're reading or watching on television, etc. Consistency is important in the spiritual life.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting a dress code, nor do I pay particular attention to what folks are wearing. Common sense and being respectful are the key.

I remember a white parent in Family Court wearing a confederate flag cut off shirt in a maltreatment case involving his mixed race child. Suffice it to say that when he walked in the door, he created an image in the Judge's mind that already put him in a more difficult spot. Would we treat God, our ultimate Judge, in the same manner?

In referencing parish archives, I was just pointing out by referencing the "old days"  that the cost of any particular item or your economic status isn't really an excuse for sloppiness or casual indifference to one's appearance in church. And dressing in  a "casual" manner or displaying a "casual indifference" are not the same thing in my view.

Anyone remember hat clips on the "men' side" for the fedoras? Fashions do change.

Offline Marc1152

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2013, 10:24:55 AM »
Let's talk about suits. Very few work places require them to be worn these days. I know one place but they stand out because of it. Most places are business casual. I only need one suit these days for funerals and special occasions and the very occasional business meeting. I keep finding Yomakas in the top pocket from the last funeral I went to ,

I think business causal is the new suit and appropriate for most Church services, unless maybe the Bishop is coming
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 10:30:38 AM »
Also, it gets hot behind the altar, real hot. There is a limit to how much clothing you can were under vestments and not feel faint. We have a new Deacon who came from a large Cathedral and is not used to serving out in the poor provinces where the air conditioning isnt great. He is a big guy and suffers from the heat when he vests.

Candles throw off tremendous amounts of heat especially in a confined area.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 11:48:30 AM »
Those who say slacks are only "X" amont of dollars haven't ever gone without a meal where $14 meant whether or not you ate. Would you choose slacks for the altar or your kids a meal?

I'm sorry for your troubles.  But don't assume others on this board have never gone hungry.  In the example you gave, of course I would choose to feed children. 
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Offline Nephi

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 12:18:50 PM »
An afterthought about the original post.

Those younger than 45 probably do not have the knowledge about "jeans," which have become so commonly acceptable these days.  When I was young, in the early 1960's, jeans were being worn as "play clothes."  Not too much earlier, "blue jeans," or "overalls" (the term my Dad used for them), were thought to be for farmers when working their farms.  When I was in high school, '68-'71, jeans were prohibited by the school dress code.  As late as 6 years ago, the bar I go to, an upscale, traditional bar that serves "Classic Cocktails," had a sign on the door prohibiting admission to those wearing "jeans."  I recall an evening when a young lady was denied admission as she stated, "These jeans cost $175.00!"  (The owner has since relented from this rule, much to the detriment of the appearance of the clientele, especially those who are younger.)

I am amazed at what our Presiding Priest, who is ten years younger than me, permits for the dress of our Altar Boys; i.e. polo shirts, casual shoes, no sports coats or suits, no ties.  When I was young, the dress code of the Acolyte was black polished shoes--"dress shoes," a white shirt and tie, dark slacks, and a dark sports jacket. But even with today's laxity, I don't see them wearing jeans.  I don't comment about it because they are good kids who do not think they are acting disrespectful; times have changed.

I'm offering this as a perspective as to how jeans are perceived by, at least, many in today's older generation.

I'm early 20's myself, and I must say that I agree in that I don't see jeans as inherently "play" or in the same category e.g. as shorts. I don't see them as disrespectful, and I wear them for most functions. "Dressed up" for me is as you described for the altar boys - a polo or button-up shirt and a nice pair of jeans (no holes, etc.), although I do wear black "dress" shoes. Honestly, it's rare for me to wear dress pants and a white shirt with a tie to any event, and generally only do if it's specifically required.

And FWIW, the couple churches I have gone to likewise have some of the altar servers dressing in jeans and polos.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 12:22:45 PM »
St. John Maximovitch prohibited them because he thought they symbolised Judas' noose.

Oh, I love him even more!   :-*
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2013, 12:27:51 PM »
Also, it gets hot behind the altar, real hot. There is a limit to how much clothing you can were under vestments and not feel faint.

This is true, but you're still basically stuck with pants and a shirt, even if you take off the ties, sweaters, jackets, etc. before vesting, so I don't see how this makes a significant difference when considering pants vs jeans. 
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2013, 12:28:45 PM »
I'm early 20's myself, and I must say that I agree in that I don't see jeans as inherently "play" or in the same category e.g. as shorts. I don't see them as disrespectful, and I wear them for most functions.

Well, you're a Liberalochian!  :P
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Offline mike

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2013, 06:30:54 PM »
Quote
polo shirts, casual shoes, no sports coats or suits, no ties.

In my observation of Russian tradition, altar servers do not wear ties under their stikharion. If a server was wearing one when arriving at church, he would be directed to remove it before vesting. Other regional traditions might have the same praxis.

Never was told to do that.
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Offline LBK

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2013, 06:35:56 PM »
Quote
polo shirts, casual shoes, no sports coats or suits, no ties.

In my observation of Russian tradition, altar servers do not wear ties under their stikharion. If a server was wearing one when arriving at church, he would be directed to remove it before vesting. Other regional traditions might have the same praxis.

Never was told to do that.

I did say "other regional traditions might have the same praxis".
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mike

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2013, 06:37:57 PM »
Quote
polo shirts, casual shoes, no sports coats or suits, no ties.

In my observation of Russian tradition, altar servers do not wear ties under their stikharion. If a server was wearing one when arriving at church, he would be directed to remove it before vesting. Other regional traditions might have the same praxis.

Never was told to do that.

I did say "other regional traditions might have the same praxis".

You said Russian tradition does it yet I've never seen it done or even heard of it but in stories about St. John.
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2013, 06:41:43 PM »
Oh, I love him even more!   :-*

Considering that the suit and tie is the universal symbol for commerce and business, I don't think he was far off in seeing it as symbolising the death of someone who betrayed God for financial gain  :)

Offline augustin717

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2013, 06:42:40 PM »
there was no tradition of altar server/sacristan wearing anything, but normal street clothes in the part of Romania I come from. Only on Good Friday Easter and some burials (if you paid a bit extra) they'd have some little boys wear white sticharia, that looked more like Latin surplices. i think i have an old pic somewhere.

Offline Romaios

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2013, 06:49:02 PM »
Oh, I love him even more!   :-*

Considering that the suit and tie is the universal symbol for commerce and business, I don't think he was far off in seeing it as symbolising the death of someone who betrayed God for financial gain  :)

Most if not all my Orthodox friends and acquaintances have an instinctive hatred of ties and would never wear one in church - Baptists, Adventists, Mormons and Pentecostals, OTOH, I always recognize by their suits, ties and leather-bound Bibles.

Offline mike

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2013, 07:02:11 PM »
Oh, I love him even more!   :-*

Considering that the suit and tie is the universal symbol for commerce and business, I don't think he was far off in seeing it as symbolising the death of someone who betrayed God for financial gain  :)

Most if not all my Orthodox friends and acquaintances have an instinctive hatred of ties and would never wear one in church - Baptists, Adventists, Mormons and Pentecostals, OTOH, I always recognize by their suits, ties and leather-bound Bibles.

And you live where?
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Offline augustin717

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2013, 07:09:07 PM »
like this:

Offline Romaios

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2013, 07:18:47 PM »

Offline Basil 320

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2013, 11:19:20 PM »
I'm watching Lou Diamond Phillips host the "Military" Channel's "An Officer and a Movie."  He is wearing some worn looking jeans, tennis shoes, an open collar patterned shirt not tucked into his slacks, with a sports jacket.  Shocking. You would never see a host of a prime time television program dressed so shabbily, wearing jeans prior to 15 years ago, but this look is acceptable to the young and middle age generation these days.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2013, 11:25:52 PM »
I'm watching Lou Diamond Phillips host the "Military" Channel's "An Officer and a Movie."  He is wearing some worn looking jeans, tennis shoes, an open collar patterned shirt not tucked into his slacks, with a sports jacket.  Shocking. You would never see a host of a prime time television program dressed so shabbily, wearing jeans prior to 15 years ago, but this look is acceptable to the young and middle age generation these days.
I don't see how it is shabbily. Denim has come a loooooong way from when it used to be a blue collar staple.

All workplaces should be casual wear, there is no good argument against it.

I can't wait until my generation takes over TBH, do away with a lot of the puritanism.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2013, 11:28:07 PM »
I looked up LDP:



OK how is that shabbily? Pretty clean look. You even got the "army green" in his leather jacket to give it somewhat of a military characteristic.

Where were you when Miley Cyrus was twerking at the VMA's this year?

And BTW Basil, guess who is the most marketable generation right now?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 11:29:09 PM by Achronos »
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2013, 11:36:00 PM »
Well, that's not how he's dressed right now on the "Military" Channel, as I outlined above.

I understand about marketing and what is acceptable today.  I was just commenting about the evolution of acceptable attire.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2013, 11:54:32 PM »
Where were you when Miley Cyrus was twerking at the VMA's this year?

How long before American Orthodox begin agitating for this at the altar?   

I can't wait until my generation takes over TBH, do away with a lot of the puritanism.

You'll do away with a lot alright...

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Offline hecma925

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2013, 11:59:33 PM »

Quote

I can't wait until my generation takes over TBH, do away with a lot of the puritanism.



Can't wait to be king, huh?  We know how this ends up.

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline Shiny

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2013, 12:06:42 AM »
Well, that's not how he's dressed right now on the "Military" Channel, as I outlined above.

I understand about marketing and what is acceptable today.  I was just commenting about the evolution of acceptable attire.
If Fox News had attractive anchors that wore next to nothing when besmirching Obama or whatever else, I would actually watch.

It might good for them. They need to revitalize their stale image or be irrelevant in 10 years.

Then you got O'Reilly who needs less estrogen since he is a narcissistic female sex organ.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:27:37 AM by Achronos »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2013, 12:08:50 AM »
How long before American Orthodox begin agitating for this at the altar?
Agitating?

I don't think there would be much Orthodox left if we really wanted to see that.

Quote
You'll do away with a lot alright...
Starting with the English language, yes.

#yolo4lyfe!!11
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Offline Shiny

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2013, 12:11:47 AM »

Quote

I can't wait until my generation takes over TBH, do away with a lot of the puritanism.



Can't wait to be king, huh?  We know how this ends up.


If I'm King, I would actually have black people redo The Lion King.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2013, 12:24:37 AM »
The Lion King was is a stupid movie.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline mike

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2013, 04:31:18 AM »
The Lion King was is a stupid movie.

Heretic.
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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2013, 05:08:17 AM »
Quote from: The Life of Ivan Neronov
[Ecclesiastics] conspired against him because they hated his teaching for its zealous emphasis on proper Christian conduct: with great courage he denounced all whom he saw behaving in an ungodly fashion... [As such] he was deprived of his priestly rank, bound in iron chains, and broken down in jails.

Offline Shiny

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2013, 05:12:16 AM »
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline LBK

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #77 on: October 06, 2013, 05:43:52 AM »
Quote
polo shirts, casual shoes, no sports coats or suits, no ties.

In my observation of Russian tradition, altar servers do not wear ties under their stikharion. If a server was wearing one when arriving at church, he would be directed to remove it before vesting. Other regional traditions might have the same praxis.

Never was told to do that.

I did say "other regional traditions might have the same praxis".

You said Russian tradition does it yet I've never seen it done or even heard of it but in stories about St. John.

I've experienced Russian liturgical tradition for longer than you've been alive, in more than one country. I am acquainted with many boys and men who serve/have served in the altar, ranging in ages from early teens to early fifties, not including the deacons and priests I know who served prior to their ordination.

Do not presume I don't know what I'm talking about.  >:(
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2013, 07:24:29 AM »
Well, that's not how he's dressed right now on the "Military" Channel, as I outlined above.

I understand about marketing and what is acceptable today.  I was just commenting about the evolution of acceptable attire.
If Fox News had attractive anchors that wore next to nothing when besmirching Obama or whatever else, I would actually watch.

It might good for them. They need to revitalize their stale image or be irrelevant in 10 years.

Then you got O'Reilly who needs less estrogen since he is a narcissistic female sex organ.

Fox News Channel's female news anchors are among the most gorgeous women in television news i.e. Megyn Kelly, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Gretchen Carlson, Ainsley Earhart, Heather Nauert, Elisabeth Hasslbeck, Martha MacCallum, Andrea Tantaros, Dana Perino, et. al., who's hotter?  

Fox's new evening line up starts Monday, part of being dynamic even in light of fabulous ratings; not "stale."

FNC's President Roger Ailes is a genius!

I have a far Left drinking buddy who acknowledges that Fox "knows how to do it" with their hot news chicks, who are well educated and have professional backgrounds, Megyn Kelly and Kimberly Guilfoyle are attorney's (a few of the others are likewise), unlike PMSNBC with a blatant Lesbyterian, Ms. Madcow, smack dab in the middle of prime time.  Madcow will be going "head to head," so to speak, with Megyn Kelly beginning Monday, which should be the final nail in her coffin---MSNBC will have to bring out the lovely Tamron Hall to compete.

If I'm not mistaken, "The Five," "It's 5 o'clock in New York and this is 'The Five," is the highest rated program in cable news.

Routinely securing more than twice the audience garnered by both CNN and MSNBC combined keeps them in pretty good standing.  I don't think anyone is too worried about becoming stale.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 07:37:19 AM by Basil 320 »
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Offline Arachne

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2013, 07:27:49 AM »
The news studio is the new altar, then. Whoduthunk?  ::)
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Offline LBK

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2013, 07:30:17 AM »
The news studio is the new altar, then. Whoduthunk?  ::)

Depressing, but true ....  :P :P >:(
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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2013, 08:39:29 AM »
Well, that's not how he's dressed right now on the "Military" Channel, as I outlined above.

I understand about marketing and what is acceptable today.  I was just commenting about the evolution of acceptable attire.
If Fox News had attractive anchors that wore next to nothing when besmirching Obama or whatever else, I would actually watch.

It might good for them. They need to revitalize their stale image or be irrelevant in 10 years.

Then you got O'Reilly who needs less estrogen since he is a narcissistic female sex organ.


Glad to see someone other than Isa sneaking in a political opinion.......

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2013, 08:41:19 AM »
Well, that's not how he's dressed right now on the "Military" Channel, as I outlined above.

I understand about marketing and what is acceptable today.  I was just commenting about the evolution of acceptable attire.
If Fox News had attractive anchors that wore next to nothing when besmirching Obama or whatever else, I would actually watch.

It might good for them. They need to revitalize their stale image or be irrelevant in 10 years.

Then you got O'Reilly who needs less estrogen since he is a narcissistic female sex organ.

Fox News Channel's female news anchors are among the most gorgeous women in television news i.e. Megyn Kelly, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Gretchen Carlson, Ainsley Earhart, Heather Nauert, Elisabeth Hasslbeck, Martha MacCallum, Andrea Tantaros, Dana Perino, et. al., who's hotter?  

Fox's new evening line up starts Monday, part of being dynamic even in light of fabulous ratings; not "stale."

FNC's President Roger Ailes is a genius!

I have a far Left drinking buddy who acknowledges that Fox "knows how to do it" with their hot news chicks, who are well educated and have professional backgrounds, Megyn Kelly and Kimberly Guilfoyle are attorney's (a few of the others are likewise), unlike PMSNBC with a blatant Lesbyterian, Ms. Madcow, smack dab in the middle of prime time.  Madcow will be going "head to head," so to speak, with Megyn Kelly beginning Monday, which should be the final nail in her coffin---MSNBC will have to bring out the lovely Tamron Hall to compete.

If I'm not mistaken, "The Five," "It's 5 o'clock in New York and this is 'The Five," is the highest rated program in cable news.

Routinely securing more than twice the audience garnered by both CNN and MSNBC combined keeps them in pretty good standing.  I don't think anyone is too worried about becoming stale.

All they need to do is actually add news instead of talk into the mix.....

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2013, 08:43:08 AM »

Offline orthodox4life

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2013, 08:51:40 AM »
This sure has gotten off topic
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2013, 07:05:38 PM »
Quote
polo shirts, casual shoes, no sports coats or suits, no ties.

In my observation of Russian tradition, altar servers do not wear ties under their stikharion. If a server was wearing one when arriving at church, he would be directed to remove it before vesting. Other regional traditions might have the same praxis.

Never was told to do that.

I did say "other regional traditions might have the same praxis".

If you research the origins of neckties, you will find they are Croatian. Therefore, they are absolutely evil.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2013, 07:12:54 PM »
Well, that's not how he's dressed right now on the "Military" Channel, as I outlined above.

I understand about marketing and what is acceptable today.  I was just commenting about the evolution of acceptable attire.
If Fox News had attractive anchors that wore next to nothing when besmirching Obama or whatever else, I would actually watch.

It might good for them. They need to revitalize their stale image or be irrelevant in 10 years.

Then you got O'Reilly who needs less estrogen since he is a narcissistic female sex organ.

Fox News Channel's female news anchors are among the most gorgeous women in television news i.e. Megyn Kelly, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Gretchen Carlson, Ainsley Earhart, Heather Nauert, Elisabeth Hasslbeck, Martha MacCallum, Andrea Tantaros, Dana Perino, et. al., who's hotter?  

Fox's new evening line up starts Monday, part of being dynamic even in light of fabulous ratings; not "stale."

FNC's President Roger Ailes is a genius!

I have a far Left drinking buddy who acknowledges that Fox "knows how to do it" with their hot news chicks, who are well educated and have professional backgrounds, Megyn Kelly and Kimberly Guilfoyle are attorney's (a few of the others are likewise), unlike PMSNBC with a blatant Lesbyterian, Ms. Madcow, smack dab in the middle of prime time.  Madcow will be going "head to head," so to speak, with Megyn Kelly beginning Monday, which should be the final nail in her coffin---MSNBC will have to bring out the lovely Tamron Hall to compete.

If I'm not mistaken, "The Five," "It's 5 o'clock in New York and this is 'The Five," is the highest rated program in cable news.

Routinely securing more than twice the audience garnered by both CNN and MSNBC combined keeps them in pretty good standing.  I don't think anyone is too worried about becoming stale.

The Fox News anchoress bares her legs for the sake of the news. This is, of course, part of the Fox News marketing genius.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2013, 07:14:27 PM »
This sure has gotten off topic

Not at all. You just need to fill in between the posts.
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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2013, 09:07:26 AM »
Quote
polo shirts, casual shoes, no sports coats or suits, no ties.

In my observation of Russian tradition, altar servers do not wear ties under their stikharion. If a server was wearing one when arriving at church, he would be directed to remove it before vesting. Other regional traditions might have the same praxis.

Never was told to do that.

I did say "other regional traditions might have the same praxis".

If you research the origins of neckties, you will find they are Croatian. Therefore, they are absolutely evil.

Then the French saw it and ran with it, thus changing the face of men's fashion forever.  Pure evil, indeed.
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: What to wear around the altar?
« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2013, 09:46:40 AM »
It is true that neckties are not wore in the Russian tradition. At St. John the Baptist, servers take off their neckties before vesting. However, they are expected to wear a shirt with a collar and dark shoes,so that's that. Those rules were developed by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco and are virtually standard around ROCOR.