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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Faith is Shaken Daily
« on: October 02, 2013, 09:00:36 PM »
I've attended a few liturgies but haven't gone any further into the process than that.  I'm frustrated just finding a church.  One was beautiful, but half the service is in Greek, making it all that more difficult to figure out what's going on.  I switched to an English-speaking one, and they seem to have chronic issues with organization and communication.  There's another English-speaking parish that I will be checking out this Sunday.  All that aside, I don't really know what I'm doing.  My faith isn't what you'd call 'stable,' and I don't think it's the best time for me to be asking to be a catechumen.  I don't really want to go into what my issues are, but I guess my main question is, how do you hold onto belief when your faith is shaken on a daily basis?  I have a really hard time being 'dead to the world' when I have to walk out into it every day, and I just can't cope with most of what I see.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 09:11:41 PM »
I don't get it.

I have only been to one liturgy and I won't begin to call for Catechesis until I stay in the Church for a few months. Here's my suggestion:

If you want to become Orthodox, attend the services often. If you are unsure, take your time to gather yourself and strengthen your faith. If you are unsure about Christianity, learn about other religions.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 09:26:13 PM »
I think I have other things going on.  I can't say it's a case of being unsure about Christianity, although that might be a little bit of it.  Things I see make me question it.  I have no interest in exploring other religions.  I've also got severe depression going on, and that's probably skewing my perspective somewhat.  Just not sure how far into this I can go.  I just might stick with liturgies.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline biro

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2013, 09:31:41 PM »
I think I have other things going on.  I can't say it's a case of being unsure about Christianity, although that might be a little bit of it.  Things I see make me question it.  I have no interest in exploring other religions.  I've also got severe depression going on, and that's probably skewing my perspective somewhat.  Just not sure how far into this I can go.  I just might stick with liturgies.

I'm sorry you're dealing with that. I have, too.

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 09:40:22 PM »
My faith isn't what you'd call 'stable,' and I don't think it's the best time for me to be asking to be a catechumen.  I don't really want to go into what my issues are, but I guess my main question is, how do you hold onto belief when your faith is shaken on a daily basis?  I have a really hard time being 'dead to the world' when I have to walk out into it every day, and I just can't cope with most of what I see.

Without knowing more about your situation, I hesitate to say much.  But it sounds like you want to be a bodybuilder without having to exercise.  All of us have that tendency.  It would be nice if faith could just be uploaded into our hearts without much effort, but it seems to me that "holding on" is "faith".  Faith is not the ability to confront a storm and not be affected by it, it's about being right in the middle of it, holding on as much as you can, and not letting it keep you down.  If you are struggling, you probably have more faith than you think.  

I've also got severe depression going on, and that's probably skewing my perspective somewhat.  Just not sure how far into this I can go.  I just might stick with liturgies.

By all means, go to church as often as you can, and don't feel the need to take on more than you can.  Don't feel any pressure to formally become a catechumen, but remember that a catechumen is essentially a "learner".  The fancy words look scary, but they're not.  :)

Regarding the depression, if you're not already, please consider seeing a physician and/or therapist.  With or without Orthodoxy, this is important for your well-being.  Many of us have been there or are there now.   
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 09:46:43 PM »
This makes me wonder, is my faith so little that it is never shaken?

I read stories of saints and such about people who went through difficult tribulations that involved some sort of unbelief and lack of faith, then regaining it.

I never had that sort of experience. Once I fully accepted Orthodoxy, I never had any skepticism. Maybe I'm just not going deep enough, I don't know...
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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 09:48:08 PM »
Go to church when you can. Maybe just pick one and don't worry about what issues it may have that throw you out. Try to establish a little stability. I know it's difficult in the beginning--been there. But consistency and stability is extremely helpful in sorting things out. It's going to take a long time. See maybe if you can meet with a priest to answer some questions you might have. Nothing formal, but it's a connection and those are good.
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Offline Seraphim98

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 09:49:31 PM »
May I suggest continuing to visit around at present, but make contact with the priests. See if you can schedule some time to talk to them one on one.  Chances are at least one of the priests will "click" with you and you will know you've found a man you can trust to help guide your soul. Then the issues with that parish will diminish in importance. At the foundational levels there are only two things that matter: Is Orthodoxy true as it claims to be or not, and where does God want you to be planted and to grow. If Orthodoxy if the faith of the Apostles then regardless of the parish problems, unless you plan to relocate, one of them is going to have to be your spiritual home for the time being. No parish that I know of is without some problem, though admittedly some problems are easier to bear with than others. If you pray and visit and read and study and find the place that feel God is leading you to, then whatever it's problems, that will be the right place for you, and the opportunity to grow in ways best for you but less available elsewhere. In the end trust God to show you the way, long or short, here or there, or the other place. He is faithful. Consider also "risking" a prayer to the Theotokos or to a saint whose life touches you. Ask for their prayers in discovering what you should do and where you should go.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 09:51:32 PM by Seraphim98 »

Offline Sleeper

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 10:06:06 PM »
This makes me wonder, is my faith so little that it is never shaken?

I read stories of saints and such about people who went through difficult tribulations that involved some sort of unbelief and lack of faith, then regaining it.

I never had that sort of experience. Once I fully accepted Orthodoxy, I never had any skepticism. Maybe I'm just not going deep enough, I don't know...

1 Cor. 12: 8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

I too, have rarely struggled with my faith in God. I just know He's there, everywhere present, filling all things. I've come to accept that this might just be a gift from Him, and to not take it for granted. Perhaps you have this gift as well.

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 01:33:12 AM »
May I suggest continuing to visit around at present, but make contact with the priests. See if you can schedule some time to talk to them one on one.  Chances are at least one of the priests will "click" with you and you will know you've found a man you can trust to help guide your soul. Then the issues with that parish will diminish in importance. At the foundational levels there are only two things that matter: Is Orthodoxy true as it claims to be or not, and where does God want you to be planted and to grow. If Orthodoxy if the faith of the Apostles then regardless of the parish problems, unless you plan to relocate, one of them is going to have to be your spiritual home for the time being. No parish that I know of is without some problem, though admittedly some problems are easier to bear with than others. If you pray and visit and read and study and find the place that feel God is leading you to, then whatever it's problems, that will be the right place for you, and the opportunity to grow in ways best for you but less available elsewhere. In the end trust God to show you the way, long or short, here or there, or the other place. He is faithful. Consider also "risking" a prayer to the Theotokos or to a saint whose life touches you. Ask for their prayers in discovering what you should do and where you should go.

My problems are deeper than issues with a particular church.  Basically, if I'm not in any proper mindset to attend church, I just spend that day on Ancient Faith.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 08:03:21 AM »
Going to Church can change your mindset.  As good as AFR is, it's not Church.
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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 08:11:55 AM »
May I suggest continuing to visit around at present, but make contact with the priests. See if you can schedule some time to talk to them one on one.  Chances are at least one of the priests will "click" with you and you will know you've found a man you can trust to help guide your soul. Then the issues with that parish will diminish in importance. At the foundational levels there are only two things that matter: Is Orthodoxy true as it claims to be or not, and where does God want you to be planted and to grow. If Orthodoxy if the faith of the Apostles then regardless of the parish problems, unless you plan to relocate, one of them is going to have to be your spiritual home for the time being. No parish that I know of is without some problem, though admittedly some problems are easier to bear with than others. If you pray and visit and read and study and find the place that feel God is leading you to, then whatever it's problems, that will be the right place for you, and the opportunity to grow in ways best for you but less available elsewhere. In the end trust God to show you the way, long or short, here or there, or the other place. He is faithful. Consider also "risking" a prayer to the Theotokos or to a saint whose life touches you. Ask for their prayers in discovering what you should do and where you should go.

My problems are deeper than issues with a particular church.  Basically, if I'm not in any proper mindset to attend church, I just spend that day on Ancient Faith.
If you aren't in a proper mindset, then you should make a double effort to get to church.  That is like saying you are going to stay away from the doctor because you are sick.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 09:48:15 AM »
If you aren't in a proper mindset, then you should make a double effort to get to church.  That is like saying you are going to stay away from the doctor because you are sick.

This!

Remember that well-worn saying that the Church is a hospital for sinners. If we only went to church when we were in a proper mindset, I dare say attendance would be down quite a bit!
When I was coming to Orthodoxy, my priest (of blessed memory) gave me this advice: come to as many services as you can, pray and read the Psalms.
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Offline stavros_388

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 10:02:19 AM »
Go to church when you can. Maybe just pick one and don't worry about what issues it may have that throw you out. Try to establish a little stability. I know it's difficult in the beginning--been there. But consistency and stability is extremely helpful in sorting things out. It's going to take a long time.

This is sound advice. I second his suggestions.
"This is the cross - to become dead to the whole world, to suffer sorrows, temptations and other passions of Christ; in bearing this cross with complete patience, we imitate Christ's passion and thus glorify our God the Father as His sons in grace and co-heirs of Christ." --St. Symeon the New Theologian

Offline stavros_388

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 10:04:11 AM »
If you aren't in a proper mindset, then you should make a double effort to get to church.  That is like saying you are going to stay away from the doctor because you are sick.

This!

This indeed!
"This is the cross - to become dead to the whole world, to suffer sorrows, temptations and other passions of Christ; in bearing this cross with complete patience, we imitate Christ's passion and thus glorify our God the Father as His sons in grace and co-heirs of Christ." --St. Symeon the New Theologian

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 06:52:55 PM »

If you aren't in a proper mindset, then you should make a double effort to get to church.  That is like saying you are going to stay away from the doctor because you are sick.

I should be more precise--when I'm not in the proper mindset for church, I listen to AF podcasts.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 08:14:41 PM »

If you aren't in a proper mindset, then you should make a double effort to get to church.  That is like saying you are going to stay away from the doctor because you are sick.

I should be more precise--when I'm not in the proper mindset for church, I listen to AF podcasts.
The thing is, with Orthodoxy, there is a big emphasis on the struggle and asceticism.  If you are not in the proper mindset for church, the solution is not to not attend, it is to push yourself to go and allow yourself to struggle with the mindset.  That is how you grow in your faith.  If you don't feel like praying, that is the most important time to BE praying.  We ought not allow our feelings to direct our faith, we ought to discipline ourselves so that we can overcome our feelings and do that which we have been called to do.  As and aside, I am not very good at this either.  It takes practice and hard work to build a consistent faith, but I would advise you to never skip church or prayers or any other aspect of worship for the sake of a poor mindset.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2013, 12:04:23 AM »

The thing is, with Orthodoxy, there is a big emphasis on the struggle and asceticism.  If you are not in the proper mindset for church, the solution is not to not attend, it is to push yourself to go and allow yourself to struggle with the mindset.  That is how you grow in your faith.  If you don't feel like praying, that is the most important time to BE praying.  We ought not allow our feelings to direct our faith, we ought to discipline ourselves so that we can overcome our feelings and do that which we have been called to do.  As and aside, I am not very good at this either.  It takes practice and hard work to build a consistent faith, but I would advise you to never skip church or prayers or any other aspect of worship for the sake of a poor mindset.

Fair enough, but you're going to have to trust that I know what my issues are, and that I know when I need to stay home.  I'm coping badly, and sometimes, it's better that I don't venture out.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2013, 09:49:07 AM »

If you aren't in a proper mindset, then you should make a double effort to get to church.  That is like saying you are going to stay away from the doctor because you are sick.

I should be more precise--when I'm not in the proper mindset for church, I listen to AF podcasts.
The thing is, with Orthodoxy, there is a big emphasis on the struggle and asceticism.  If you are not in the proper mindset for church, the solution is not to not attend, it is to push yourself to go and allow yourself to struggle with the mindset.  That is how you grow in your faith.  If you don't feel like praying, that is the most important time to BE praying.  We ought not allow our feelings to direct our faith, we ought to discipline ourselves so that we can overcome our feelings and do that which we have been called to do.  As and aside, I am not very good at this either.  It takes practice and hard work to build a consistent faith, but I would advise you to never skip church or prayers or any other aspect of worship for the sake of a poor mindset.

This! Again! You guys are really on it.

Personally, I have found that the much-criticized and derided "going through the motions" - such as, praying when my prayers don't seem to be going any where or going to church when I don't feel like it, or fasting when I really don't want to or any of the myriad ascetic practices and struggles - includes not telling people what I really think of their ideas!  ;) - in retrospect, the very times when I struggled and almost despaired, was discouraged and disheartened, were the most spiritually "beneficial," if you will.
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Offline Maximum Bob

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 01:08:21 AM »

The thing is, with Orthodoxy, there is a big emphasis on the struggle and asceticism.  If you are not in the proper mindset for church, the solution is not to not attend, it is to push yourself to go and allow yourself to struggle with the mindset.  That is how you grow in your faith.  If you don't feel like praying, that is the most important time to BE praying.  We ought not allow our feelings to direct our faith, we ought to discipline ourselves so that we can overcome our feelings and do that which we have been called to do.  As and aside, I am not very good at this either.  It takes practice and hard work to build a consistent faith, but I would advise you to never skip church or prayers or any other aspect of worship for the sake of a poor mindset.

Fair enough, but you're going to have to trust that I know what my issues are, and that I know when I need to stay home.  I'm coping badly, and sometimes, it's better that I don't venture out.

Okay, let us assume for a moment, that you do need to stay home from Church sometimes. AFR is a good thing, as someone said not a replacement for Church, but perhaps as a stand-in sometimes. But most of us don't go to Church every day. Are you listening to AFR at other times too? How is your prayer life? Do you read the scriptures? The fathers? The lives and writings of the Saints? The focus of Orthodoxy may be the church but there's a lot to living the Orthodox life outside of the church too.

Further when struggling with depression sometimes taking active steps to accomplish something is what's required, more so than taking active steps to accomplish something in particular. What do you do for fun, especially with other healthy moral people?

St. Zenaida, (a doctor and relative of St. Paul the Apostle) whose feast was yesterday, had an interest in psychiatry and had patients with severe depression and sought out not only the causes for these patients depression but also the cures. If your okay with asking Saints for their prayers at this point you consider asking her for help.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2013, 07:01:52 PM »


Okay, let us assume for a moment, that you do need to stay home from Church sometimes. AFR is a good thing, as someone said not a replacement for Church, but perhaps as a stand-in sometimes. But most of us don't go to Church every day. Are you listening to AFR at other times too? How is your prayer life? Do you read the scriptures? The fathers? The lives and writings of the Saints? The focus of Orthodoxy may be the church but there's a lot to living the Orthodox life outside of the church too.

Further when struggling with depression sometimes taking active steps to accomplish something is what's required, more so than taking active steps to accomplish something in particular. What do you do for fun, especially with other healthy moral people?

St. Zenaida, (a doctor and relative of St. Paul the Apostle) whose feast was yesterday, had an interest in psychiatry and had patients with severe depression and sought out not only the causes for these patients depression but also the cures. If your okay with asking Saints for their prayers at this point you consider asking her for help.

Yes, AF is not a replacement for church, and I don't treat it as such.  When I'm unable to attend Liturgy, AF helps keep my mind where it needs to be--on the faith.  When you can't physically go to church, it's real easy to fall away when you keep your mind on other things--TV, hobbies, diversions, even therapy.  AF is just something I can tether myself to, and yes, if I look at it as a suitable substitute, I'll still fall away.  I look at it more like a Band-Aid.  Something to stop the bleeding until I can get to the hospital.  I missed church again this morning, but not because it was a time I decided I was not in the proper mindset to go to church.  

One common side effect of severe depression is insomnia, usually chronic.  Being pre-diabetic, I already have chronic fatigue.  I'd have been a road hazard, trying to drive to church today.  I'm not making lame excuses.  I'm making logical, realistic ones.  I'm getting frustrated.  I haven't been to church in three weeks now.  I can try again for Vespers on Saturday, but there's no Liturgy this Sunday at the new church I want to check out.  A Father Deacon is being ordained a Priest by a Metropolitan, and they're doing that in Rochester.  If I'm 'functioning' on Sunday, I'll likely either attend Matins and Liturgy at the Greek church that I love (but don't understand) or attend Liturgy back at the OCA church that has, imo, organization and communication issues.  

I'm withdrawing socially, and so a great deal of my problems just getting to church--that's probably part of it.

As to reading scripture, the answer is 'yes' and 'no.'  I have no Bible, and the translation I want is the Orthodox Study Bible.  It's $40 and I can't afford that right now, as I'm unemployed.  However, I can access scripture on the internet.  I'm working my way through Fr James Early's podcasts, which is Bible Study.  I just finished The Sayings of Anthony the Great, Part II.  As I pull up a particular podcast, I go to BibleGateway and pull up the verses he's covering in that podcast.  All I can do right now is all I can do.  

I have a lot of issues in my personal life that I'm struggling to work through, and I can either work through them one by one and get my life situated, however slowly, or I can push myself, beat myself up when I miss a step, and fall even deeper into the pit when I don't get anything done at all.  

What I want is to get to a point where I can function.  I want Liturgy, Matins, Vespers whenever I can manage it (meaning, I want Matins first/primarily), weekly Bible Study, and eventually, I want Greek Language lessons, and be able to go back to the first Orthodox church I tried.  I have lofty aspirations, but it's not going to happen overnight.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 07:03:34 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2013, 07:32:03 PM »


Okay, let us assume for a moment, that you do need to stay home from Church sometimes. AFR is a good thing, as someone said not a replacement for Church, but perhaps as a stand-in sometimes. But most of us don't go to Church every day. Are you listening to AFR at other times too? How is your prayer life? Do you read the scriptures? The fathers? The lives and writings of the Saints? The focus of Orthodoxy may be the church but there's a lot to living the Orthodox life outside of the church too.

Further when struggling with depression sometimes taking active steps to accomplish something is what's required, more so than taking active steps to accomplish something in particular. What do you do for fun, especially with other healthy moral people?

St. Zenaida, (a doctor and relative of St. Paul the Apostle) whose feast was yesterday, had an interest in psychiatry and had patients with severe depression and sought out not only the causes for these patients depression but also the cures. If your okay with asking Saints for their prayers at this point you consider asking her for help.
I'm withdrawing socially, and so a great deal of my problems just getting to church--that's probably part of it.

As to reading scripture, the answer is 'yes' and 'no.'  I have no Bible, and the translation I want is the Orthodox Study Bible.  It's $40 and I can't afford that right now, as I'm unemployed.  However, I can access scripture on the internet.  I'm working my way through Fr James Early's podcasts, which is Bible Study.  I just finished The Sayings of Anthony the Great, Part II.  As I pull up a particular podcast, I go to BibleGateway and pull up the verses he's covering in that podcast.  All I can do right now is all I can do.  

I have a lot of issues in my personal life that I'm struggling to work through, and I can either work through them one by one and get my life situated, however slowly, or I can push myself, beat myself up when I miss a step, and fall even deeper into the pit when I don't get anything done at all.  

What I want is to get to a point where I can function.  I want Liturgy, Matins, Vespers whenever I can manage it (meaning, I want Matins first/primarily), weekly Bible Study, and eventually, I want Greek Language lessons, and be able to go back to the first Orthodox church I tried.  I have lofty aspirations, but it's not going to happen overnight.

I'm kinda in a similar position. I need to get my ducks on the road before I can completely commit to Orthodoxy or a particular parish.

If you need a Bible the NAB is cheap and has the Deuterocanon that the Protestant Bibles do not have.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Bible-Revised-Psalms-Testament/dp/0529064847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381707066&sr=8-1&keywords=new+american+bible
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2013, 08:03:57 PM »

I'm kinda in a similar position. I need to get my ducks on the road before I can completely commit to Orthodoxy or a particular parish.

If you need a Bible the NAB is cheap and has the Deuterocanon that the Protestant Bibles do not have.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Bible-Revised-Psalms-Testament/dp/0529064847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381707066&sr=8-1&keywords=new+american+bible

rofl.  I don't think you want to get your ducks on the road--they'll get hit, and you'll have a bunch of dead ducks.  I think the expression you're looking for is "get your ducks in a row."  

I'm completely committed to Orthodoxy.  I was raised Catholic, and have looked at other denominations--some were 'okay' experiences and some were unpleasant experiences, but the one faith that seemed to me to be firmly rooted in history, and whose doctrine seemed solid and seemed to cover all the bases is Orthodoxy.  No extremism, no 'out in left field' ideas or doctrine, no extraneous notions loosely based on questionable interpretation of scripture.  But that's me.  You might remain less than thoroughly convinced, and still be looking for the one Church that clicks with you.  I'm not unsure of Orthodoxy.

I did have the NASB a while ago.  I don't want to buy a KJV, and I won't go into reasons for that because I don't want to get mired in a debate about translations.  The title Orthodox Study Bible suggests to me that this is exactly what I want.  That tells me that it's Orthodox, and that it's geared for study, making it appropriate to a Christian just discovering the first Church.  I wish this translation was available on BibleGateway.  On that site, I set it for the NASB translation of scripture.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 08:05:39 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2013, 08:36:25 PM »
This makes me wonder, is my faith so little that it is never shaken?

I read stories of saints and such about people who went through difficult tribulations that involved some sort of unbelief and lack of faith, then regaining it.

I never had that sort of experience. Once I fully accepted Orthodoxy, I never had any skepticism. Maybe I'm just not going deep enough, I don't know...

When I first became Orthodox, I thought that this was the faith that would be solid in my heart.  But, sometimes you have to work at it.  Even now, from time to time, I have to wonder if my faith is as strong as it should be.  Don't get me wrong, Orthodoxy is the Apex of my life, but knowing myself I have to remind myself to work harder at my faith even though I belong to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 08:36:44 PM by JoeS2 »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2013, 09:56:15 PM »

I'm kinda in a similar position. I need to get my ducks on the road before I can completely commit to Orthodoxy or a particular parish.

If you need a Bible the NAB is cheap and has the Deuterocanon that the Protestant Bibles do not have.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Bible-Revised-Psalms-Testament/dp/0529064847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381707066&sr=8-1&keywords=new+american+bible

rofl.  I don't think you want to get your ducks on the road--they'll get hit, and you'll have a bunch of dead ducks.  I think the expression you're looking for is "get your ducks in a row."  

I'm completely committed to Orthodoxy.  I was raised Catholic, and have looked at other denominations--some were 'okay' experiences and some were unpleasant experiences, but the one faith that seemed to me to be firmly rooted in history, and whose doctrine seemed solid and seemed to cover all the bases is Orthodoxy.  No extremism, no 'out in left field' ideas or doctrine, no extraneous notions loosely based on questionable interpretation of scripture.  But that's me.  You might remain less than thoroughly convinced, and still be looking for the one Church that clicks with you.  I'm not unsure of Orthodoxy.

I did have the NASB a while ago.  I don't want to buy a KJV, and I won't go into reasons for that because I don't want to get mired in a debate about translations.  The title Orthodox Study Bible suggests to me that this is exactly what I want.  That tells me that it's Orthodox, and that it's geared for study, making it appropriate to a Christian just discovering the first Church.  I wish this translation was available on BibleGateway.  On that site, I set it for the NASB translation of scripture.
The Orthodox Study Bible is NKJV.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2013, 10:24:20 PM »

The Orthodox Study Bible is NKJV.


I have a serious mental block for 'KJV.'  When I hear 'KJV,' I think about Protestant/Luther-ian alterations to scripture.  This info is good to know, though.  I'll see if I can get my hands on at least a used copy of the NKJV.  Thanks.

One question:  Does the Orthodox Study Bible include any additional notes not found in the NKJV, that are intended for readers who are new to the faith?  That's the impression I got from 'Study Bible.'  
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 10:26:40 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline Maximum Bob

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2013, 10:34:47 PM »

The Orthodox Study Bible is NKJV.


I have a serious mental block for 'KJV.'  When I hear 'KJV,' I think about Protestant/Luther-ian alterations to scripture.  This info is good to know, though.  I'll see if I can get my hands on at least a used copy of the NKJV.  Thanks.

One question:  Does the Orthodox Study Bible include any additional notes not found in the NKJV, that are intended for readers who are new to the faith?  That's the impression I got from 'Study Bible.' 

That's exactly what it is and what it has. The Kindle version is only $19.99 and you can download a free Kindle reader for your PC.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2013, 10:57:35 PM »


That's exactly what it is and what it has. The Kindle version is only $19.99 and you can download a free Kindle reader for your PC.


I couldn't even do $20 right now.  I've been unemployed since March, and just staying a foot and a half ahead of the bear.  Maybe when I find another job.  Thanks for the info.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline Seraphim98

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2013, 01:05:59 AM »
Dear Newtoorthodoxy,

It does sound like you have some serious impediments some days that make it difficult for you to attend the Divine Liturgy. Permit me to recommend a couple of other things to consider in addition to any sound advice previously suggested on this thread.

1). Here is an Orthodox audio prayer link. You can download it as an app or listen over your computer. It may help you with establishing a spiritual routine, especially when you only have strength to listen and too little to do much more than that: http://orthoadoration.blogspot.com. There is also a cd from St. Tikhons of the whole liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in English. It is very beautiful. When you can't attend, then in addition to your AFR listen to this cd in lieu of a service.

2). Even if it is difficult for physical, financial, or mental stress related reasons to attend with regularity, see which priest or priests are willing to let you to keep in touch with them in a more pastoral way. Then on Sunday's you can't make Divine Liturgy because of your difficulties, then drop the priest a quick line telling him you cannot make it that morning and ask to be remembered in the litany or something. That way you are part of the service even if you can't be there.

Just a thought.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 01:07:06 AM by Seraphim98 »

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2013, 01:35:34 AM »
I've bookmarked the page--thank you.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline Gayle

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2013, 12:13:01 AM »
I think you are doing good now with what little you have.I know all to well how depression can mess up the day,especially when I can't get my meds.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2013, 12:41:07 AM »

The Orthodox Study Bible is NKJV.


I have a serious mental block for 'KJV.'  When I hear 'KJV,' I think about Protestant/Luther-ian alterations to scripture.  This info is good to know, though.  I'll see if I can get my hands on at least a used copy of the NKJV.  Thanks.

One question:  Does the Orthodox Study Bible include any additional notes not found in the NKJV, that are intended for readers who are new to the faith?  That's the impression I got from 'Study Bible.' 

More accurately, it's the NKJV version modified to the Septuagint renderings against Masoretic ones. The Orthodox Study Bible is filled with notes and commentary by the Church Fathers and the Nicene Creed.

Samples: http://orthodoxstudybible.com/

Preview: http://www.thomasnelson.com/the-orthodox-study-bible.html
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 12:44:16 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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I am scaling back posting because the crack in my computer screen makes it harder and harder to type.

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Faith is Shaken Daily
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2013, 12:53:24 AM »

More accurately, it's the NKJV version modified to the Septuagint renderings against Masoretic ones. The Orthodox Study Bible is filled with notes and commentary by the Church Fathers and the Nicene Creed.

Samples: http://orthodoxstudybible.com/

Preview: http://www.thomasnelson.com/the-orthodox-study-bible.html

I think you just made up my mind again.  Back to my original plan.  I'm going to make-do with BibleGateway until I can afford the translation I really want.  They have it at the Bookstore in the Greek Orthodox Church close to me.  I definitely want the OSB.  Thanks. 
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.