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Trazer
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« on: October 02, 2013, 09:13:31 AM »

Before I start, I would like to apologise for my terrible command of the English Language.

I was raised Christian (Methodist to be exact) but I didn't really care. I left the faith sometime last year and had a 'new atheist' phase. Stumbled upon Eastern Orthodoxy by chance and I had doubts whether atheism was true or not and I took the leap of faith 2-3 months back. I found out there that was a Greek Orthodox Parish so I started going for it. My first Divine Liturgy was on the day of the Elevation of the Holy Cross and it was certainly a new experience. However, I did not feel anything much about it afterwards (I'm generally apathetic towards everything). I'm waiting for the resident priest to return before I start my catechumen process... But even now, I have serious doubts regarding my faith. Not sure much about the faith but rather doubts i.e What if EO is true? How do I know Christianity to be true? What if the other religions are true?

I apologise if information is sparse and lacking. I'm not great with words.
So... I'm asking for advice as to what I should do. I'm only 15 btw.

Glory be to God.

Lord, help thou mine unbelief!
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 09:24:23 AM »


Welcome to the Forum, Trazer!!!

I suggest you not worry too much about it, yet.  Even though you may think that you are all grown up, you're not.  You are still very young, and have a long life ahead that will hopefully through experiences help convince you of the truth of Christianity.
Don't be upset that you can't make up your mind, or that you aren't convinced. 

As for the truth of Christianity....I am biased, but, I will tell you 100% the Orthodox Church is the Church of Christ....without a doubt.

It is through Christ and His Church that salvation has been made possible for us.

As for the other Faiths.....they are attractive because they all hold a little bit of God's truth in them.  It is human nature to "feel" that God exists and we aren't simply spinning out of control.

This Forum is a great place for you to ask questions, and learn about Orthodoxy.  There is no stupid question, so, ask away.  However, if you get a snide or rude remark, please do not be put off.  Some posters, even though they are Orthodox, are human and sometimes have poor judgment and lack of patience.  However, most of the posters here will be happy to explain anything you are interested in knowing.

Once again, welcome!!!

I look forward to your input, questions and participation in many future discussions!

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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 10:38:00 AM »

Trazer,
You are probably getting ahead of yourself.  It is perfectly fine that you aren't 100% convinced yet.  Even those of us who are convinced of Orthodoxy have our days where we question and doubt things.  My advice is to commit to giving Orthodoxy an honest chance.  Engage the Church, be open and inquisitive, dialog with the priest. 

Safe journey.
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2013, 10:39:24 AM »

Please forgive me my friend if my answer is not as good as the previous one Tongue

I would out of my own experience like to say that in this process, you´re probably searching for something more and exclusive that atheism can´t grant you. Through your life, your choices, your consciousness and your heart there is something speaking about the truth of life in general, and truth in whole. My advice is just that if this would in some sense be true (forgive me if I´m wrong), then remember to always be open in your search for truth. Even though the journey may be long, the gift of knowing the truth, and how this affect your life in every single way, will be the greatest reward ever after some years of search.
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 10:44:36 AM »

I agree with Liza; the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church. I think a careful, honest examination of the history of Christianity will reflect that.

I think you should give other religions thought, but you'll soon realize like I did, that other religions like Islam and Judaism, are based on a denial of Christ. So, it's based on your belief in Christ whether you turn to Him or not.

Eastern religions have the same Philosophical, and meditative, contemplative practices that the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church does. But they have a different underpinning explanation as to why something is the way it is.

An example is Buddhism and Jainism.

They believe that whether God exists is a non-issue. They think that controlling human desire is the most important thing. The Orthodox would agree (I hope!) except that they would disagree with the method.

In Eastern religions, God is outside the equation. In Orthodoxy, God is the center of the equation. That through God, and with God's help, one attains Theosis, Sanctification, Enlightenment, Divinization. Whereas, Eastern religions say that this can be done by an individual's efforts without the help of God, whether he exists or not.

So, CHRIST is the main factor in the difference of world religions. If you believe in Christ, be Orthodox. If you don't... be a Buddhist. That is my train of thought.

Islam and Judaism is based on a denial of Christ, so first you have to acknowledge Christ, in some way, in order to deny Him.

Take your time.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 10:52:37 AM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 10:48:27 AM »

We all need honest and mature relationships to help support and guide us in our life of faith, I hope the catechumen process provides this for you.  I would say do not worry at all about "not feeling" anything.  After being involved in more "feelings based" expressions of Christianity, I find it very refreshing that Orthodoxy put's little or no stock in emotions.

God bless.
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 11:47:21 AM »

Your English ain't half bad.  Honestly, your faith ain't too horrible either.  Religion is a journey that only ends with death (depending on your belief in 'tollhouses' it could go on afterwards as well).  One moment could be that which saves your soul, bringing on true repentance.  Also, Lord Help My Unbelief is the most honest prayer a man can say.  Lord Jesus Christ Have Mercy On Me A Sinner is my personal favorite but sometimes I worry that I am saying it because Jesus said such a prayer justified the Publican.  But Lord Help My Unbelief, even if the sincerity isn't all there, that could be the unbelief that needs fixing!

Keep praying that God helps your unbelief.  If you say that you are seeking God, and Christ says, seek and ye shall find.  I reckon, you open your heart to Him, He'll find His way in. 
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 12:00:28 AM »

Thank you all!

I'm really thankful for all the advices. They have been useful. I have decided to do the practical thing and just take things a step at a time: attend services, start my catechumen process, and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Lord, help thou mine unbelief.
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 12:10:13 AM »

Thank you all!

I'm really thankful for all the advices. They have been useful. I have decided to do the practical thing and just take things a step at a time: attend services, start my catechumen process, and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Lord, help thou mine unbelief.

Know that I am praying for you.

See if you can get Ancient Faith Radio online. Listen to the chants, this will help tremendously.
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2013, 12:45:23 AM »

and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Don't get me wrong, the Jesus Prayer is good, but I think you should focus more on establishing a regular morning/evening prayer rule and keeping it before venturing too much into the Jesus Prayer. Just my thoughts.
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2013, 11:10:06 AM »

and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Don't get me wrong, the Jesus Prayer is good, but I think you should focus more on establishing a regular morning/evening prayer rule and keeping it before venturing too much into the Jesus Prayer. Just my thoughts.

Sure, I'll try and establish a morning/evening prayer rule before I start praying the Jesus Prayer. Any links to some prayers which I can pray?
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2013, 12:33:57 PM »

and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Don't get me wrong, the Jesus Prayer is good, but I think you should focus more on establishing a regular morning/evening prayer rule and keeping it before venturing too much into the Jesus Prayer. Just my thoughts.

Sure, I'll try and establish a morning/evening prayer rule before I start praying the Jesus Prayer. Any links to some prayers which I can pray?

I realize you are 15, so if you can afford a few dollars to get a prayer book, I'd recommend starting out with "A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians." One place it can be found among many is here. If not, here's another simple prayer book in PDF format you could print out and make. If neither of those are what you're looking for, maybe someone else is aware of a good website with simple, concise morning/evening prayers. I just say this since taking on too much prayer at once can be hard to keep, and further disheartening if one can't keep it, causing one to possibly burn out.

Other than that, this is definitely something you'll want to discuss with the priest you get into contact with. In any case, listen to him over any of our comments. Wink
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2013, 01:02:27 PM »

and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Don't get me wrong, the Jesus Prayer is good, but I think you should focus more on establishing a regular morning/evening prayer rule and keeping it before venturing too much into the Jesus Prayer. Just my thoughts.

Sure, I'll try and establish a morning/evening prayer rule before I start praying the Jesus Prayer. Any links to some prayers which I can pray?

In what language would you like to pray? 
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2013, 02:02:07 PM »

and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Don't get me wrong, the Jesus Prayer is good, but I think you should focus more on establishing a regular morning/evening prayer rule and keeping it before venturing too much into the Jesus Prayer. Just my thoughts.

Sure, I'll try and establish a morning/evening prayer rule before I start praying the Jesus Prayer. Any links to some prayers which I can pray?

Does your family know that you are inquiring into Holy Orthodoxy? Would they accompany you to a Divine Liturgy? Sometimes a youth can lead his family into Orthodoxy, but be careful, it is more important to lead them by an exemplary example, not by preaching to them. And more important, it is good to show great gratitude to them that they have raised you to believe in Christ. This gratitude will soften their hearts toward Orthodoxy.

If you can get an Orthodox Study Bible, at the back of this Bible is a brief set of morning and evening prayers. They do not take too long, but consistently praying these prayers for a month and then switching to a more complete set of morning and evening prayers might work.

Again, ask your priest.

There is one prayer that is often omitted from many abbreviated evening prayers that is very helpful for all ages. My husband used to have a lot of nightmares until we started praying it together.

Quote
And now as we lay us down to sleep, O Master, grant us repose both of body and of soul, and keep us from the dark sleep of sin and from the sensuous pleasure of the dark passions of the night. Still Thou the assaults of passion; quench the fiery darts of the wicked one which are thrown insidiously at us; calm the commotions of our flesh and put away all earthly and material thoughts as we sleep.

And grant us, O God, a watchful mind, chaste thoughts, a sober heart, and a gentle sleep, free from all the fantasies of Satan. And raise us up again at the hour of prayer, established in Thy commandments and holding steadfast within ourselves the remembrance of thy judgments.

Give us the words of Thy glorification, all night long, that we may praise, bless, and glorify Thy most honorable and magnificent Name, O Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, now and always and for ever and ever. Amen.

O most glorious one, O ever-virgin, O blessed Theotokos, commend our prayer to Thy Son, our God, and entreat Him to save our souls through thee.

The Father is my hope; the Son is my refuge; the Holy Spirit is my shelter. O Holy Trinity, glory to Thee.

All my hope I place in thee, O Theotokos; keep me under the wing of thy care.

Reference:
Nassar, Rev. Seraphim, Divine Prayers and Services,  Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of N.A., 1993, p. 89




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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2013, 11:29:01 PM »

and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Don't get me wrong, the Jesus Prayer is good, but I think you should focus more on establishing a regular morning/evening prayer rule and keeping it before venturing too much into the Jesus Prayer. Just my thoughts.

Sure, I'll try and establish a morning/evening prayer rule before I start praying the Jesus Prayer. Any links to some prayers which I can pray?

In what language would you like to pray? 

English, please. Thank you!
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2013, 11:30:04 PM »

and pray. Most probably the Jesus Prayer.

Don't get me wrong, the Jesus Prayer is good, but I think you should focus more on establishing a regular morning/evening prayer rule and keeping it before venturing too much into the Jesus Prayer. Just my thoughts.

Sure, I'll try and establish a morning/evening prayer rule before I start praying the Jesus Prayer. Any links to some prayers which I can pray?

Does your family know that you are inquiring into Holy Orthodoxy? Would they accompany you to a Divine Liturgy? Sometimes a youth can lead his family into Orthodoxy, but be careful, it is more important to lead them by an exemplary example, not by preaching to them. And more important, it is good to show great gratitude to them that they have raised you to believe in Christ. This gratitude will soften their hearts toward Orthodoxy.

If you can get an Orthodox Study Bible, at the back of this Bible is a brief set of morning and evening prayers. They do not take too long, but consistently praying these prayers for a month and then switching to a more complete set of morning and evening prayers might work.

Again, ask your priest.

There is one prayer that is often omitted from many abbreviated evening prayers that is very helpful for all ages. My husband used to have a lot of nightmares until we started praying it together.

Quote
And now as we lay us down to sleep, O Master, grant us repose both of body and of soul, and keep us from the dark sleep of sin and from the sensuous pleasure of the dark passions of the night. Still Thou the assaults of passion; quench the fiery darts of the wicked one which are thrown insidiously at us; calm the commotions of our flesh and put away all earthly and material thoughts as we sleep.

And grant us, O God, a watchful mind, chaste thoughts, a sober heart, and a gentle sleep, free from all the fantasies of Satan. And raise us up again at the hour of prayer, established in Thy commandments and holding steadfast within ourselves the remembrance of thy judgments.

Give us the words of Thy glorification, all night long, that we may praise, bless, and glorify Thy most honorable and magnificent Name, O Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, now and always and for ever and ever. Amen.

O most glorious one, O ever-virgin, O blessed Theotokos, commend our prayer to Thy Son, our God, and entreat Him to save our souls through thee.

The Father is my hope; the Son is my refuge; the Holy Spirit is my shelter. O Holy Trinity, glory to Thee.

All my hope I place in thee, O Theotokos; keep me under the wing of thy care.

Reference:
Nassar, Rev. Seraphim, Divine Prayers and Services,  Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of N.A., 1993, p. 89






Thank you. Will start slow and steady!  Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2013, 12:23:41 PM »

My advice would be to try to find why Orthodoxy is the Truth instead of if it is The Truth. Seek understanding instead of proof. Also, there is no substitute for actual experiencing the faith to see for yourself how it works. Go right ahead! Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2013, 12:26:33 PM »

Hi, Trazer. Welcome to the forum. Hope you have fun.  Wink
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2013, 09:34:43 PM »

One strategy you might want to consider is learning what the Orthodox faith looks like when it is lived to it's fullest. God is not an object, not a proposition in a debate, but a person, and He is revealed personally in and through persons. To that end might I suggest reading the lives of Saints and Holy Elders who lived close to and even within our times, people not ignorant the forces arrayed against a modern man in search of the truth. Consult with your priest for some good recommendations that might be fruitful for you. Just speaking for myself I think you might find inspiration in the following lives: St. Seraphim of Sarov, St. Xenia of St. Petersburg, Mother Gavriella, Elder Sophrony, St. Silouan of Mt. Athos, Elder Cleopas, Elder Porphyrios, St. Barsanuphius of Optina, and St. Nectarios of Aegina. There are many more of course, each both unique, and each the same in the acquisition and expression of their faith. Some were bishops, some nuns, some were military officers, some looked first into the mysticism of India and Asia, all communicated Christ in their persons.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 09:35:42 PM by Seraphim98 » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2013, 06:48:00 PM »

Quote
Before I start, I would like to apologise for my terrible command of the English Language.

I was raised Christian (Methodist to be exact) but I didn't really care. I left the faith sometime last year and had a 'new atheist' phase. Stumbled upon Eastern Orthodoxy by chance and I had doubts whether atheism was true or not and I took the leap of faith 2-3 months back. I found out there that was a Greek Orthodox Parish so I started going for it. My first Divine Liturgy was on the day of the Elevation of the Holy Cross and it was certainly a new experience. However, I did not feel anything much about it afterwards (I'm generally apathetic towards everything). I'm waiting for the resident priest to return before I start my catechumen process... But even now, I have serious doubts regarding my faith. Not sure much about the faith but rather doubts i.e What if EO is true? How do I know Christianity to be true? What if the other religions are true?

I apologise if information is sparse and lacking. I'm not great with words.
So... I'm asking for advice as to what I should do. I'm only 15 btw.

Glory be to God.

Lord, help thou mine unbelief!

Thank you for your honesty and welcome to the forum! I'm from a similar faith and in my past I sometimes questioned the existence of God. To me, its kind of like my marriage and I'm not saying this is what you're doing. Its just an analogy. When I don't do anything to nurture my relationship with my wife, after time I begin to question my love for her. Like our relationship with Christ, both require time spent in developing the relationship. The more time and effort that's spent in them, the more they grow and the more assurance we have in our love.

I hope this helps and may God grant you His guidance.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 06:48:52 PM by orthodox4life » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2013, 02:27:25 AM »

Quote
As for the truth of Christianity....I am biased, but, I will tell you 100% the Orthodox Church is the Church of Christ....without a doubt.

If he wouldn't look for a bias he would not ask on Orthodox forum, aye?  Cheesy
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2013, 06:53:47 PM »

Hi Trazer;

May god bless and lead you as you seek truth, in the book of hebrews it's written "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen".

You mentioned religions, I've heard it truthfully said that" Christianity is not a religion as it is a true kingdom".

Orthodox means correct or proper belief , You are blessed to have been led to the orthodox church.
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2013, 07:33:53 PM »

Hi Trazer;

May god bless and lead you as you seek truth, in the book of hebrews it's written "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen".

You mentioned religions, I've heard it truthfully said that" Christianity is not a religion as it is a true kingdom".

Orthodox means correct or proper belief , You are blessed to have been led to the orthodox church.

I've heard it said 'Christ didn't come to found a new religion, He came to found a Church.' The question is, like Protestants, do you reject the Church and Her authority, or like Orthodox and Catholics, do you accept that the Church is true?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 07:37:44 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2013, 08:38:48 AM »

Reply to orth4chrst;

Hi and god bless, Was wondering if you found error in my previous message?

In answer to your question I do accept the Orthodox church as true.

If you reread Trazers concern and position then my reply?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 08:46:45 AM by Robert scho » Logged

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