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Author Topic: Orthodoxy as Jerusalem and Zion  (Read 1038 times) Average Rating: 0
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WeepingProphet
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« on: February 12, 2005, 11:44:08 AM »

It has been my experience that many people who are "fiery" about the truth they believe become arrogant and elitist. There is a zeal of man (Rom. 10:1-3) and a zeal of God (Isaiah 9:7). The spirit of arrogance is common among those who argue doctrine instead of exemplify it. " God the Father declares, I've bathed him with my Spirit, my life. He'll set everything right among the nations. He won't call attention to what he does with loud speeches or gaudy parades. He won't brush aside the bruised and the hurt and he won't disregard the small and insignificant, but he'll steadily and firmly set things right. He won't tire out and quit. He won't be stopped until he's finished his work--to set things right on earth." (Isaiah 42:1-4Message).

The Orthodoxian has an onus laid on them to travail and bring forth spiritual children. "Give me children or I die!" We are not looking to recycle people, cloning sheep in our ecclesiastical genetic engineering laboratories, that which is "born of spirit is spirit, that which is born of the flesh is flesh." The Spirit of God does not need man's counsel or direction and the sacred breath of God breathes on whom it wishes.

Should not Orthodoxians be grieved at the condition of Christians outside its walls and weep "between the porch and the altar" until God pours out his blessing and a makes Jerusalem the "object of praise throughout the earth?" (Isaiah 62:7).

Or is the stronghold of Zion under seige itself by those who love it and want to see its restoration and growth? Shall the violent take the kingdom of heaven by force once again as God calls to a people of whom he says, I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name." (Is. 65:1) Do not these workings of the Spirit still apply? Does not the Spirit and bride still say, Come?

Should not the present Christian diaspora makes us long and yearn for God to make, "Jerusalem a well-built city, knit together as a single unit." (Psalm 122:6).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2005, 01:25:12 PM by WeepingProphet » Logged

" My mother's sons were angry with me and made me take care of the vineyards; my own vineyard I have neglected."
rakovsky
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 09:53:20 PM »

Weeping Prophet,

Jerusalem's place in our theology is important.

On November 14, 1994, Jerusalem's Patriarch and other Christian leaders described it in a Memorandum (http://www.al-bushra.org/hedchrch/memorandum.htm):

   
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"Jerusalem has had a long, eventful history. It... has been destroyed time and again, only to be reborn anew and rise from its ashes... every exclusivity or every human supremacy is against the prophetic character of Jerusalem.
   

In other words, he rejects a worldly government having 100% control of Jerusalem because it goes against the prophecies.

Quote
Through a prayerful reading of the Bible, Christians recognize in faith that the long history of the people of God, with Jerusalem at its center is the history of salvation which fulfils God's design in and through Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ. The one God has chosen Jerusalem to be the place where His name alone will dwell in the midst of His people so that they may offer to Him acceptable worship. The prophets look up to Jerusalem, especially after the purification of the exile: Jerusalem will be called "the city of justice, faithful city (Is 1,26.27) where the Lord dwells in holiness as in Sinai (cf PS 68,18). The Lord will place the city in the middle of the nations (Ez 5,5)... Jerusalem, aglow with the presence of God (Is 60,1), ought to be a city whose gates are always open (Is, 11), with Peace as magistrate and Justice as government. (Is, 17)...

Next, he talks about the heavenly Jerusalem:

Quote
   Christians believe the Jerusalem of the Prophets to be the foreseen place of the salvation in and through Jesus Christ. In the Gospels, Jerusalem rejects the Sent-One, the Savior; and He weeps over it because this city of the prophets that is also the city of the essential salvific events - the death and resurrection of Jesus - has completely lost sight of the path to peace (cf Lk 19,42).
   In the Acts of the Apostles, Jerusalem is the place of the gift of the Spirit, of the birth of the Church (2), the community of the disciples of Jesus who are to be His witnesses not only in Jerusalem but even the ends of the earth (1,8). In Jerusalem, the first Christian community incarnated the ecclesiastical ideal, and thus it remains a continuing reference point. The Book of Revelations proclaims the anticipation of the new heavenly Jerusalem (3.12, 21,2 cf Gal 4,26: Heb 12,22). This holy city is the image of the new creation and the aspirations of all peoples, where God will wipe away all tears, and "then shall be no more death or mourning, crying out or pain, for the former world has passed away" (21,4).
   The earthly Jerusalem, in the Christian tradition, prefigures the heavenly Jerusalem as "the vision of peace." In the Liturgy, the Church itself receives the name of Jerusalem and relives all of that city's anguish, joys and hopes. Furthermore, during the first centuries the liturgy of Jerusalem became the foundation of all liturgies everywhere, and later deeply influence the development of diverse liturgical traditions, because of the many pilgrimages to Jerusalem and of the symbolic meaning of the Holy City.
   

Further, he explained that it has spiritual meaning to all Christians:

Quote
Jerusalem soon occupied a unique place in the heart of Christianity everywhere...
   Jerusalem is the place of roots, ever living and nourishing. In Jerusalem is born every Christian. To be in Jerusalem is for every Christian to be at home. For almost two thousand years, through so many hardships and the succession of so many powers, the local Church with its faithful has always been actively present in Jerusalem. Across the centuries, the local Church has been witnessing to the life and preaching, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ upon the same Holy places, and its faithful have been receiving other brothers and sisters in the faith, as pilgrims, resident or in transit, inviting them to be reimmersed into the refreshing, ever living ecclesiastical sources. That continuing presence of a living Christian community is inseparable from the historical sites. Through the "living stones" the holy archaeological sites lake on "life."
   

In summary, he writes:

Quote
The significance of Jerusalem for Christians thus has two inseparable fundamental dimensions: 1) a Holy City with holy places most precious to Christians because of their link with the history of salvation fulfilled in and through Jesus Christ; 2) a city with a community of Christians which as been living continual there since its origins...
   Jerusalem is a symbol and a promise of the presence of God, of fraternity and peace for humankind, in particular for the children of Abraham... We call upon all parties concerned to comprehend and accept the nature and deep significance of Jerusalem, the City of God."
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 07:05:36 PM »


6th century map of Jerusalem from St George's Orthodox Church, Madaba, Jordan
6th century map of Jerusalem, from St George Orthodox Church in Madaba, Jordan
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 07:06:12 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 06:42:36 PM »

WeepingProphet,

It's pretty when you write:
God the Father declares, I've bathed him with my Spirit, my life. He'll set everything right among the nations. He won't call attention to what he does with loud speeches or gaudy parades. He won't brush aside the bruised and the hurt and he won't disregard the small and insignificant, but he'll steadily and firmly set things right. He won't tire out and quit. He won't be stopped until he's finished his work--to set things right on earth." (Isaiah 42:1-4Message).

The Orthodoxian has an onus laid on them to travail and bring forth spiritual children. "Give me children or I die!" We are not looking to recycle people, cloning sheep in our ecclesiastical genetic engineering laboratories, that which is "born of spirit is spirit, that which is born of the flesh is flesh." The Spirit of God does not need man's counsel or direction and the sacred breath of God breathes on whom it wishes.

I think that yes, "Orthodoxians," by whom you mean Orthodox Christians collectively,
Quote
Should... be grieved at the condition of Christians outside its walls... until God pours out his blessing and a makes Jerusalem the "object of praise throughout the earth?" (Isaiah 62:7).
Christians living on the "other side", that is, the "outside" side of the Separation Wall, have a sad condition because they live under a callous military occupation directed against them, and Orthodox Christians collectively should share in their sadness according to Christianity because we, Christians collectively, are one body. Plus, in my opinion the grief shouldn't last until the city of Jerusalem becomes an object of praise, but merely until the cause for grief- the treatment of the Christians- leaves.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if Orthodox Christians collectively should
Quote
weep "between the porch and the altar" until God pours out his blessing and a makes Jerusalem the "object of praise throughout the earth?" (Isaiah 62:7).
That is, I am not sure that crying in church about our earthly sufferings and sorrows is an act that we should take, although in my mind, it is an acceptable, and maybe even healthy, reaction to feelings of sadness.



I am confused here by your words:
Quote
Or is the stronghold of Zion under seige itself by those who love it and want to see its restoration and growth? Shall the violent take the kingdom of heaven by force once again as God calls to a people of whom he says, I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name." (Is. 65:1) Do not these workings of the Spirit still apply?

(1) Currently there is no military siege of Jerusalem. The Israeli army conducted the last military siege there. The siege was several decades ago and was successful.
In case you have the Christians in mind when you mention "those who love it and want to see its restoration and growth": it appears that the Christian population in the city of Jerusalem is shrinking.
(2) My view of the term "the kingdom of heaven" in the New Testament isn't that it is limited to the earthly city of Jerusalem. At least, if the term did refer to a physical location, I would assume that such a mighty kingdom would extend far beyond the boundaries of the earthly city.
(3) I assume that the workings of the spirit mentioned in Isaiah 65:1 still apply, because the prophecy was meant to have a future spiritual application. It still applies in my mind that nations besides the ancient Israelites aren't the only ones who have found Israel's God today.

When you ask:
Quote
Does not the Spirit and bride still say, Come?
, I assume you mean to ask- to paraphrase-: "Doesn't the spirit and the Church still invite and lead people?" The answer would be obviously yes, because people still feel inspired to join and be led by the Church. I think here you're asking a rhetorical question, but it's ok.

Because Jerusalem is the city where our Christian faith began, and the Christians of the Holy Land who are living in diaspora miss their homeland, I think that "the present Christian diaspora"
Quote
Should... make us long and yearn for God to make, "Jerusalem a well-built city, knit together as a single unit." (Psalm 122:6).



Peace.
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PoorFoolNicholas
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 10:29:18 PM »

You do realize that the person you are responding to has not be active in over 6 years, right? Why do you keep resurrecting these aged threads? Do you expect WeepingProphet to respond?
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