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Author Topic: Popes Gives Another Major Interview  (Read 2171 times) Average Rating: 0
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xOrthodox4Christx
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« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2013, 02:55:32 PM »

I wish Pope Francis would take a vow of silence.

I wish you would take a vow of silence
I would  try to convert you, but Pope Francis is opposed to converting people. He has no intention of converting anyone.

Convert me to what? Aren't you Melkite?

Perhaps he wishes to convert you away from Ultramontanism to some form traditional-minded Roman Catholicism. You know that the Pope in fact can err (in fact, I've been told so many times by Roman Catholic apologists), and that he is not infallible all the time, right? Why then, I wonder, do so many Roman Catholics feel so compelled to defend every single word, action, and thought that the Pope may speak, perform, or think, since he is only guaranteed to be free from heresy when speaking ex cathedra? Perhaps it is because Roman Catholics deep down do not actually believe that the Pope is ever capable of teaching doctrinal error or of having any moral failing.

You presume a lot of things. I know very well the pope can err. I just believe from what I've read, that he hasn't. His vagueness is an issue but put his statements in the context of his know stances on the same issues and you will realize his teaching is in line with the catholic church.

many people are just upset that he isn't concerned about the same things as them e.g. Liturgy, emphasis on social issues

Papal Infallibility, the Filioque and dogmatic nonsense like Purgatory, Indulgences and Original Sin are not in line with the Catholic Church.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 03:01:50 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

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« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2013, 03:03:29 PM »

I wish Pope Francis would take a vow of silence.

I wish you would take a vow of silence
I would  try to convert you, but Pope Francis is opposed to converting people. He has no intention of converting anyone.

Convert me to what? Aren't you Melkite?

Perhaps he wishes to convert you away from Ultramontanism to some form traditional-minded Roman Catholicism. You know that the Pope in fact can err (in fact, I've been told so many times by Roman Catholic apologists), and that he is not infallible all the time, right? Why then, I wonder, do so many Roman Catholics feel so compelled to defend every single word, action, and thought that the Pope may speak, perform, or think, since he is only guaranteed to be free from heresy when speaking ex cathedra? Perhaps it is because Roman Catholics deep down do not actually believe that the Pope is ever capable of teaching doctrinal error or of having any moral failing.

You presume a lot of things. I know very well the pope can err. I just believe from what I've read, that he hasn't. His vagueness is an issue but put his statements in the context of his know stances on the same issues and you will realize his teaching is in line with the catholic church.

many people are just upset that he isn't concerned about the same things as them e.g. Liturgy, emphasis on social issues

Papal Infallibility, the Filioque and dogmatic nonsense like Purgatory, Indulgences and Original Sin are not in line with the Catholic Church.
Papal Infalliblity, the Filioque and dogmatic awesomeness like Purgatory, indulgences and Original Sin are most certainly in line with the Catholic Church, being that they are Catholic dogmas. Smiley
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« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2013, 03:16:36 PM »

"I'm Catholic!"
"No, you're not!  I'M CATHOLIC!"
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« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2013, 03:28:31 PM »

"I'm Catholic!"
"No, you're not!  I'M CATHOLIC!"
Banned or not being Catholic... oh wait...
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« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2013, 04:02:55 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
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« Reply #95 on: October 03, 2013, 04:05:08 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."

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« Reply #96 on: October 03, 2013, 04:12:52 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."



It seems that Francis is primarily concerned with the heart.  Hopefully he will be more specific about external manifestations of such things, but whenever I read his interviews I just open my heart and I am capable of at least understanding the heart of the matter and my spirit is challenged in very specific ways.

Maybe he's less interested in the purity of the motions and has decided that his papacy will be about reforming the heart of the Church.

I'm cool with the way he's proceeded thus far.  That's me, though.
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« Reply #97 on: October 03, 2013, 04:22:35 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."



It seems that Francis is primarily concerned with the heart.  Hopefully he will be more specific about external manifestations of such things, but whenever I read his interviews I just open my heart and I am capable of at least understanding the heart of the matter and my spirit is challenged in very specific ways.

Maybe he's less interested in the purity of the motions and has decided that his papacy will be about reforming the heart of the Church.

I'm cool with the way he's proceeded thus far.  That's me, though.
Well, being that we are a union of body and soul, what we do on the outside does affect our state on the inside.
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« Reply #98 on: October 03, 2013, 04:24:30 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."



It seems that Francis is primarily concerned with the heart.  Hopefully he will be more specific about external manifestations of such things, but whenever I read his interviews I just open my heart and I am capable of at least understanding the heart of the matter and my spirit is challenged in very specific ways.

Maybe he's less interested in the purity of the motions and has decided that his papacy will be about reforming the heart of the Church.

I'm cool with the way he's proceeded thus far.  That's me, though.
Well, being that we are a union of body and soul, what we do on the outside does affect our state on the inside.
yes, of course.

We may disagree on what constitutes a negative affect, though. 
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« Reply #99 on: October 03, 2013, 04:40:37 PM »

Again, I miss Pope Benedict. Sad

I miss Pope Peter Sad

 Cheesy
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« Reply #100 on: October 03, 2013, 04:44:58 PM »

Again, I miss Pope Benedict. Sad

I miss Pope Peter Sad

 Cheesy
ROFL!
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« Reply #101 on: October 03, 2013, 04:46:46 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."



It seems that Francis is primarily concerned with the heart.  Hopefully he will be more specific about external manifestations of such things, but whenever I read his interviews I just open my heart and I am capable of at least understanding the heart of the matter and my spirit is challenged in very specific ways.

Maybe he's less interested in the purity of the motions and has decided that his papacy will be about reforming the heart of the Church.

I'm cool with the way he's proceeded thus far.  That's me, though.
Well, being that we are a union of body and soul, what we do on the outside does affect our state on the inside.
yes, of course.

We may disagree on what constitutes a negative affect, though. 
I suppose. I think liturgy that teaches us that the Christian faith is all about making us feel happy-clappy is a bad thing. The liturgy should lead us into the Mystery of God's transcendence and should direct away from ourselves, towards the ineffable God.
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« Reply #102 on: October 03, 2013, 05:50:08 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."



It seems that Francis is primarily concerned with the heart.  Hopefully he will be more specific about external manifestations of such things, but whenever I read his interviews I just open my heart and I am capable of at least understanding the heart of the matter and my spirit is challenged in very specific ways.

Maybe he's less interested in the purity of the motions and has decided that his papacy will be about reforming the heart of the Church.

I'm cool with the way he's proceeded thus far.  That's me, though.
Well, being that we are a union of body and soul, what we do on the outside does affect our state on the inside.
yes, of course.

We may disagree on what constitutes a negative affect, though. 
I suppose. I think liturgy that teaches us that the Christian faith is all about making us feel happy-clappy is a bad thing. The liturgy should lead us into the Mystery of God's transcendence and should direct away from ourselves, towards the ineffable God.
Agreed.

Of course, I'd add that liturgy should also connect us horizontally to our neighbor.  That's what I love about my current church.
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« Reply #103 on: October 03, 2013, 06:21:08 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."



It seems that Francis is primarily concerned with the heart.  Hopefully he will be more specific about external manifestations of such things, but whenever I read his interviews I just open my heart and I am capable of at least understanding the heart of the matter and my spirit is challenged in very specific ways.

Maybe he's less interested in the purity of the motions and has decided that his papacy will be about reforming the heart of the Church.

I'm cool with the way he's proceeded thus far.  That's me, though.
Well, being that we are a union of body and soul, what we do on the outside does affect our state on the inside.
yes, of course.

We may disagree on what constitutes a negative affect, though. 
I suppose. I think liturgy that teaches us that the Christian faith is all about making us feel happy-clappy is a bad thing. The liturgy should lead us into the Mystery of God's transcendence and should direct away from ourselves, towards the ineffable God.
Agreed.

Of course, I'd add that liturgy should also connect us horizontally to our neighbor.  That's what I love about my current church.
It does that in the Eucharist. We don't need to feel cuddly with one another to achieve real communion with one another.
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« Reply #104 on: October 03, 2013, 06:51:48 PM »

I think Pope Francis is quite easy to understand.
It is difficult to understand what he thinks about traditional liturgy. On the one hand, he praises the Orthodox for maintaining pure worship. On the other hand, he refers to certain traditionalist tendencies as "Pelegian."



It seems that Francis is primarily concerned with the heart.  Hopefully he will be more specific about external manifestations of such things, but whenever I read his interviews I just open my heart and I am capable of at least understanding the heart of the matter and my spirit is challenged in very specific ways.

Maybe he's less interested in the purity of the motions and has decided that his papacy will be about reforming the heart of the Church.

I'm cool with the way he's proceeded thus far.  That's me, though.
Well, being that we are a union of body and soul, what we do on the outside does affect our state on the inside.
yes, of course.

We may disagree on what constitutes a negative affect, though. 
I suppose. I think liturgy that teaches us that the Christian faith is all about making us feel happy-clappy is a bad thing. The liturgy should lead us into the Mystery of God's transcendence and should direct away from ourselves, towards the ineffable God.
Agreed.

Of course, I'd add that liturgy should also connect us horizontally to our neighbor.  That's what I love about my current church.
It does that in the Eucharist. We don't need to feel cuddly with one another to achieve real communion with one another.
the words you're choosing are a tad loaded:  "happy clappy" and "feel cuddly."

Either way, I like where I'm at.
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« Reply #105 on: October 04, 2013, 12:43:04 PM »

"I'm Catholic!"
"No, you're not!  I'M CATHOLIC!"

Oh, dear, take all sharp objects away from this guy.
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« Reply #106 on: October 04, 2013, 10:23:02 PM »

Here is the part of the interview that disturbs me a bit:
Quote
S:The answer is this: I believe in Being, that is in the tissue from which forms, bodies arise.
F:"And I believe in God, not in a Catholic God, there is no Catholic God, there is God and I believe in Jesus Christ, his incarnation. Jesus is my teacher and my pastor, but God, the Father, Abba, is the light and the Creator. This is my Being. Do you think we are very far apart?"

S:We are distant in our thinking, but similar as human beings, unconsciously animated by our instincts that turn into impulses, feelings and will, thought and reason. In this we are alike.
F:"But can you define what you call Being?"

S:Being is a fabric of energy. Chaotic but indestructible energy and eternal chaos. Forms emerge from that energy when it reaches the point of exploding. The forms have their own laws, their magnetic fields, their chemical elements, which combine randomly, evolve, and are eventually extinguished but their energy is not destroyed. Man is probably the only animal endowed with thought, at least in our planet and solar system. I said that he is driven by instincts and desires but I would add that he also contains within himself a resonance, an echo, a vocation of chaos.
F:"All right. I did not want you to give me a summary of your philosophy and what you have told me is enough for me. From my point of view, God is the light that illuminates the darkness, even if it does not dissolve it, and a spark of divine light is within each of us. In the letter I wrote to you, you will remember I said that our species will end but the light of God will not end and at that point it will invade all souls and it will all be in everyone."

S:Yes, I remember it well. You said, "All the light will be in all souls" which - if I may say so - gives more an image of immanence than of transcendence.
F:"Transcendence remains because that light, all in everything, transcends the universe and the species it inhabits at that stage.

These sound less than Roman Catholic to me, and the last sounds partly incomprehensible and partly New-Agey...which may be repeating myself to some degree  Undecided

Is there some orthodox interpretation of these words that I am overlooking, or did Pope Francis really blow it this time?
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