Author Topic: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right  (Read 6973 times)

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Offline Nacho

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #135 on: October 20, 2013, 01:22:01 AM »
The OP's title would be correct if he visited the politics section of this forum... ;D
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #136 on: October 20, 2013, 12:46:35 PM »
I can't respond any further without crossing the Politics line except to say we often talk past each other with the use of buzzwords without stopping to listen to what the other person is saying.

Being opposed to the statutory redefinition of marriage and abortion does not, from my point of view, allow an Orthodox Christian to be ignorant about or indifferent to dangerous heresies such as "Christian" reconstructionism any more than a (buzzword coming) a socialist leaning Orthodox Christian can be ignorant of, or indifferent to the dangers of Leninism or Maoism. 

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Offline Agabus

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #137 on: October 20, 2013, 02:07:20 PM »
Since when are reconstructionists representative of Reformed/Calvinists in America? William is right.

PS I'm a graduate of Calvin College
Calvin College is a long way away from RTS—Jackson, which as recently as a five years ago was dealing with what to do with the reconstructionists in their midst.

I am not saying they're a huge presence. But they're not "absolutely nobody."
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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #138 on: October 20, 2013, 02:29:38 PM »
Yes they do, they think the US should be ruled by Old Testament laws in Leviticus. That is not an abstraction, it's what they say and believe.

Absolutely no one believes this.

Actually, if Wikipedia is to be believed, then some people do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

The article more or less confirms what I've been saying in this thread.

Let's be honest here, when most progressives talk about "the religious right" they're using a buzzword to refer to people against homosexual marriage and abortion. The latter of which has a ton of opposition even outside of religious and conservative circles. And not to be too political here, but Orthodox Christians really shouldn't have a problem with someone opposing either.

Maybe Progressives do use it as a buzzword, so what? That doesn't change the reality of the Religious Right. The Religious Right are Nativist Evangelical Protestants. Orthodox people should oppose the Religious Right on all of those fronts.

I oppose the Religious Right even though I am against abortion and homosexual marriages. Any sane person should oppose the Religious Right.

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2013, 04:28:11 PM »
I like how John Hagee says that Emperor Constantine became the Pope of the "Babylonian Cult" of Rome.
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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #140 on: October 20, 2013, 04:29:47 PM »
Yes they do, they think the US should be ruled by Old Testament laws in Leviticus. That is not an abstraction, it's what they say and believe.

Absolutely no one believes this.

Actually, if Wikipedia is to be believed, then some people do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

The article more or less confirms what I've been saying in this thread.

Let's be honest here, when most progressives talk about "the religious right" they're using a buzzword to refer to people against homosexual marriage and abortion. The latter of which has a ton of opposition even outside of religious and conservative circles. And not to be too political here, but Orthodox Christians really shouldn't have a problem with someone opposing either.

Maybe Progressives do use it as a buzzword, so what? That doesn't change the reality of the Religious Right. The Religious Right are Nativist Evangelical Protestants. Orthodox people should oppose the Religious Right on all of those fronts.

I oppose the Religious Right even though I am against abortion and homosexual marriages. Any sane person should oppose the Religious Right.

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I like how John Hagee says that Emperor Constantine became the Pope of the "Babylonian Cult" of Rome.

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #141 on: October 20, 2013, 08:05:38 PM »
I like how John Hagee says that Emperor Constantine became the Pope of the "Babylonian Cult" of Rome.
Oh crap.  You got me.  :laugh:
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Offline William

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #142 on: October 20, 2013, 09:28:47 PM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.
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Offline mike

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #143 on: October 21, 2013, 02:51:20 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

You mean not really?
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2013, 07:49:44 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2013, 08:28:09 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2013, 10:07:46 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".

But...they have more contemporary influence on political figures in America than does any Orthodox who foolishly seek the 'recapture'.

This may push this discussion into Politics, but that is one of Frank's points about the senator from Texas and several others. While their beliefs may not, and yes -I will grant that they do not - reflect the overwhelming majority of the ill-described coalition known as the 'religious right' (I don't mean they are irreligious, but that the wide range of theological opinions expressed therein make it at best a loose fitting coalition.) they have enough influence for others not so inclined to keep a careful watch to ensure their heterodoxy doesn't spread. That's all I am trying to get across without starting a wide ranging debate about the role of religion and politics and alliance building in a non-homogeneous society.

I find it ironic that the Ecumenical Patriarch is criticized for his point of view on the matter coming from a culture where Christianity is a tiny demographic sliver, but others have no issue with making nice with folks who profess to be Christian in American who have little more in common with Orthodoxy and the Church of Nicea than do the Muslims.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2013, 10:21:11 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".

But...they have more contemporary influence on political figures in America than does any Orthodox who foolishly seek the 'recapture'.

This may push this discussion into Politics, but that is one of Frank's points about the senator from Texas and several others. While their beliefs may not, and yes -I will grant that they do not - reflect the overwhelming majority of the ill-described coalition known as the 'religious right' (I don't mean they are irreligious, but that the wide range of theological opinions expressed therein make it at best a loose fitting coalition.) they have enough influence for others not so inclined to keep a careful watch to ensure their heterodoxy doesn't spread. That's all I am trying to get across without starting a wide ranging debate about the role of religion and politics and alliance building in a non-homogeneous society.

I find it ironic that the Ecumenical Patriarch is criticized for his point of view on the matter coming from a culture where Christianity is a tiny demographic sliver, but others have no issue with making nice with folks who profess to be Christian in American who have little more in common with Orthodoxy and the Church of Nicea than do the Muslims.
That is a good point.  Although, I can't imagine that too many Orthodox Christians would make nice with the Reconstructionist movement "Christians".  They are just scary. Of course, I could be wrong, but I really hope not.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 10:21:44 AM by TheTrisagion »
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2013, 10:38:14 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".

But...they have more contemporary influence on political figures in America than does any Orthodox who foolishly seek the 'recapture'.

This may push this discussion into Politics, but that is one of Frank's points about the senator from Texas and several others. While their beliefs may not, and yes -I will grant that they do not - reflect the overwhelming majority of the ill-described coalition known as the 'religious right' (I don't mean they are irreligious, but that the wide range of theological opinions expressed therein make it at best a loose fitting coalition.) they have enough influence for others not so inclined to keep a careful watch to ensure their heterodoxy doesn't spread. That's all I am trying to get across without starting a wide ranging debate about the role of religion and politics and alliance building in a non-homogeneous society.

I find it ironic that the Ecumenical Patriarch is criticized for his point of view on the matter coming from a culture where Christianity is a tiny demographic sliver, but others have no issue with making nice with folks who profess to be Christian in American who have little more in common with Orthodoxy and the Church of Nicea than do the Muslims.
That is a good point.  Although, I can't imagine that too many Orthodox Christians would make nice with the Reconstructionist movement "Christians".  They are just scary. Of course, I could be wrong, but I really hope not.

Frank scares people as well.

I think though, that it is good to remind people - left or right - to be aware that political alliances are temporal and temporary and that today's ally on one set of issues, may have a quite different agenda in the long run. That type is patient and committed, again - left or right  - it doesn't matter. Put not your trust in princes in whom there is no salvation, as the Good Book reminds us.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #149 on: December 06, 2013, 02:14:44 AM »
I've read a few of Frank Shaeffer's Regina Orthodox Press publications, "The Truth" and "The Faith," by Clark Carlton, and "The Complete Book of Orthodoxy," by George W. Grube, and find them most enlightening and informative.

During the Primacy of Archbishop Spyridon of America, of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, ('96-'99), His Eminence, who was rather traditional, had endorsed Mr. Shaeffer's works.  Shaeffer was a Parish Council member of a GOAA parish at the time, on the East Coast (Massachusetts?), if I recall correctly.  Ron Dreher, an Orthodox Christian, claims in a year or so old "The American Conservative" article that Shaeffer doesn't believe in God, but maintains membership in the Greek Orthodox Church and receives Holy Communion therein. That's awfully strange.

I'm a Conservative Republican and have seen Shaeffer on MSNBC.  I don't agree with his political opinions, though I see merit to statements he's made about the Religious Right and their involvement in church activities.  Never-the-less, Regina Orthodox Press is an asset to Orthodox Christians who read about and study their faith in the English language.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:34:58 AM by Basil 320 »
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #150 on: December 07, 2013, 01:38:30 PM »
I've read a few of Frank Shaeffer's Regina Orthodox Press publications, "The Truth" and "The Faith," by Clark Carlton, and "The Complete Book of Orthodoxy," by George W. Grube, and find them most enlightening and informative.

During the Primacy of Archbishop Spyridon of America, of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, ('96-'99), His Eminence, who was rather traditional, had endorsed Mr. Shaeffer's works.  Shaeffer was a Parish Council member of a GOAA parish at the time, on the East Coast (Massachusetts?), if I recall correctly.  Ron Dreher, an Orthodox Christian, claims in a year or so old "The American Conservative" article that Shaeffer doesn't believe in God, but maintains membership in the Greek Orthodox Church and receives Holy Communion therein. That's awfully strange.

I'm a Conservative Republican and have seen Shaeffer on MSNBC.  I don't agree with his political opinions, though I see merit to statements he's made about the Religious Right and their involvement in church activities.  Never-the-less, Regina Orthodox Press is an asset to Orthodox Christians who read about and study their faith in the English language.

We must be careful in our alliances though. Some prominent evangelical leaders in the movement (some,not all) don't view us or the Roman Catholics as being authentically Christian. That makes it difficult for me to "march" with them as they actively  poach our faithful whenever they can.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #151 on: June 30, 2015, 09:46:45 PM »
Apparently, Frank Schaeffer left Orthodoxy and is now Episcopalian.

Quote
While I’ve been unable to call myself evangelical for years, I’m also not an atheist. Confirmed Episcopalian in 2012, I’m a highly infrequent churchgoer these days, as I find myself wondering if the culture-warring and theocratic tendencies in the Christianity that I’ve known are intrinsic aspects of the faith that can never be fully exorcised.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2015/06/how-evangelical-protestantism-lost-me/
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #152 on: June 30, 2015, 10:10:45 PM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".

But...they have more contemporary influence on political figures in America than does any Orthodox who foolishly seek the 'recapture'.

Arguably, Pentecostal dominionists in the "Seven Mountains" and "Joel's Army" movement have more political influence (due to their greater numbers and more populist style) than do the reconstructionist Calvinists of the Rushdoony variety.
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Offline Sleeper

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #153 on: June 30, 2015, 10:15:59 PM »
Apparently, Frank Schaeffer left Orthodoxy and is now Episcopalian.

Quote
While I’ve been unable to call myself evangelical for years, I’m also not an atheist. Confirmed Episcopalian in 2012, I’m a highly infrequent churchgoer these days, as I find myself wondering if the culture-warring and theocratic tendencies in the Christianity that I’ve known are intrinsic aspects of the faith that can never be fully exorcised.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2015/06/how-evangelical-protestantism-lost-me/

Unless I'm reading this differently than you, that looks like it's from Christopher Stroop, not Frank.

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #154 on: June 30, 2015, 10:20:29 PM »
Apparently, Frank Schaeffer left Orthodoxy and is now Episcopalian.

Quote
While I’ve been unable to call myself evangelical for years, I’m also not an atheist. Confirmed Episcopalian in 2012, I’m a highly infrequent churchgoer these days, as I find myself wondering if the culture-warring and theocratic tendencies in the Christianity that I’ve known are intrinsic aspects of the faith that can never be fully exorcised.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2015/06/how-evangelical-protestantism-lost-me/

If only that were true I believe it a story by a Cristopher Stroop who says he Episcopalians  that Frankie picked up to post on his blog page. Trust me the damage that Frank done while falsely representing Orthodoxy whatever that pushing Right wing stuff in his convert years or the stuff with the crazy secular progressive left in his opposition to the religious right, plus his nasty tone on those Orthodox videos during his covert years has done damage in trying to bring potential converts to Orthodoxy.
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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #155 on: June 30, 2015, 10:38:22 PM »
Apparently, Frank Schaeffer left Orthodoxy and is now Episcopalian.

Quote
While I’ve been unable to call myself evangelical for years, I’m also not an atheist. Confirmed Episcopalian in 2012, I’m a highly infrequent churchgoer these days, as I find myself wondering if the culture-warring and theocratic tendencies in the Christianity that I’ve known are intrinsic aspects of the faith that can never be fully exorcised.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2015/06/how-evangelical-protestantism-lost-me/

Unless I'm reading this differently than you, that looks like it's from Christopher Stroop, not Frank.
Your right. My bad. It was on Schaeffer's blog and I skipped that part.
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Offline JoeS2

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #156 on: June 30, 2015, 11:38:36 PM »
Apparently, Frank Schaeffer left Orthodoxy and is now Episcopalian.

Quote
While I’ve been unable to call myself evangelical for years, I’m also not an atheist. Confirmed Episcopalian in 2012, I’m a highly infrequent churchgoer these days, as I find myself wondering if the culture-warring and theocratic tendencies in the Christianity that I’ve known are intrinsic aspects of the faith that can never be fully exorcised.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2015/06/how-evangelical-protestantism-lost-me/

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Offline Opus118

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #157 on: June 30, 2015, 11:50:53 PM »
Apparently, Frank Schaeffer left Orthodoxy and is now Episcopalian.

Quote
While I’ve been unable to call myself evangelical for years, I’m also not an atheist. Confirmed Episcopalian in 2012, I’m a highly infrequent churchgoer these days, as I find myself wondering if the culture-warring and theocratic tendencies in the Christianity that I’ve known are intrinsic aspects of the faith that can never be fully exorcised.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2015/06/how-evangelical-protestantism-lost-me/

If only that were true I believe it a story by a Cristopher Stroop who says he Episcopalians  that Frankie picked up to post on his blog page. Trust me the damage that Frank done while falsely representing Orthodoxy whatever that pushing Right wing stuff in his convert years or the stuff with the crazy secular progressive left in his opposition to the religious right, plus his nasty tone on those Orthodox videos during his covert years has done damage in trying to bring potential converts to Orthodoxy.

Frankie! Frankie! Frankie!

What is wrong with you? Does this term help you in any way? I think not.

How can he falsely represent Orthodoxy? He no longer writes for OrthodoxyToday.org.


Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #158 on: July 01, 2015, 01:12:57 AM »
Schaeffer now refers to himself as an "atheist who believes in God". I wonder if that's supposed to be an allusion to Paul Carus.
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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #159 on: July 01, 2015, 11:39:16 AM »
...has done damage in trying to bring potential converts to Orthodoxy.

Only if they care what he thinks. I had never even heard of him or his father before I became Orthodox. Full disclosure: I was never able to finish even one of his books, though.
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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #160 on: July 01, 2015, 11:48:27 AM »
...has done damage in trying to bring potential converts to Orthodoxy.

Only if they care what he thinks. I had never even heard of him or his father before I became Orthodox. Full disclosure: I was never able to finish even one of his books, though.

My parents chucked the idea of becoming Orthodox when they viewed Frank Shaeffer's conversion tape, in which he smeared his parents. If a person wants to convert a few Protestants or even Catholics, then one's parents must be honored and respected.

Because of those video tapes, the OCA priest at my former parish refused to let him speak at our parish, and then he openly discouraged anyone from attending any of his talks anywhere.
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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #161 on: July 01, 2015, 11:52:32 AM »
Oh, Franky, Franky, Franky!  The wise thing to do would be to keep such thoughts to yourself and discuss them with your spiritual father.  Not to go public with them and lash out against people. 

Franky is always perpetually angry. That cannot be good for the soul. I think a month long retreat at some monastery where he has no access to the Internet, TV, newspapers or a Smart Phone might do him some good.

Perhaps he will yet mellow as he gets older.  One can hope.

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #162 on: July 01, 2015, 12:12:53 PM »
Oh, Franky, Franky, Franky!  The wise thing to do would be to keep such thoughts to yourself and discuss them with your spiritual father.  Not to go public with them and lash out against people. 

Franky is always perpetually angry. That cannot be good for the soul. I think a month long retreat at some monastery where he has no access to the Internet, TV, newspapers or a Smart Phone might do him some good.

Perhaps he will yet mellow as he gets older.  One can hope.

No, no, no. Frankie's not angry, he's legitimately concerned about things. Only right wing conservative people are ever angry.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #163 on: July 01, 2015, 12:13:14 PM »
Oh, Franky, Franky, Franky!  The wise thing to do would be to keep such thoughts to yourself and discuss them with your spiritual father.  Not to go public with them and lash out against people. 

Franky is always perpetually angry. That cannot be good for the soul. I think a month long retreat at some monastery where he has no access to the Internet, TV, newspapers or a Smart Phone might do him some good.

Perhaps he will yet mellow as he gets older.  One can hope.
That hasn't been his track record to date.  :-\
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Offline Maria

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #164 on: July 01, 2015, 12:31:36 PM »
Oh, Franky, Franky, Franky!  The wise thing to do would be to keep such thoughts to yourself and discuss them with your spiritual father.  Not to go public with them and lash out against people. 

Franky is always perpetually angry. That cannot be good for the soul. I think a month long retreat at some monastery where he has no access to the Internet, TV, newspapers or a Smart Phone might do him some good.

Perhaps he will yet mellow as he gets older.  One can hope.
That hasn't been his track record to date.  :-\

Lord have mercy.

Does Frank still consider himself to be an Orthodox Christian?
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #165 on: July 01, 2015, 01:07:27 PM »
Lord have mercy.

Does Frank still consider himself to be an Orthodox Christian?

Yes.


Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #166 on: July 01, 2015, 01:37:41 PM »
Lord have mercy.

Does Frank still consider himself to be an Orthodox Christian?

Yes.

and that the point in my post eariler maybe I could of worded it better be he still is a member of the Orthodox church and lashing out in anger, smearing his parents or his now found "Atheist he believes in God" nonsense represents the church terribly as a public figure.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #167 on: July 01, 2015, 02:05:44 PM »
I forgot to add smearing The ROC for alleged "homophobia" as far as I can gays still protest, vote and everything else so Frankie comparing ROC to religious right off base.
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #168 on: July 01, 2015, 11:42:32 PM »
and that the point in my post eariler maybe I could of worded it better be he still is a member of the Orthodox church and lashing out in anger, smearing his parents or his now found "Atheist he believes in God" nonsense represents the church terribly as a public figure.

You should really read some of his books.  I've listened to him and I don't sense the anger that you do.  I see a lot of thoughtfulness and struggling with a fundamentalist religious upbringing.


Offline mike

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #169 on: July 02, 2015, 10:14:38 AM »
Lord have mercy.

Does Frank still consider himself to be an Orthodox Christian?

Yes.

and that the point in my post eariler maybe I could of worded it better be he still is a member of the Orthodox church and lashing out in anger, smearing his parents or his now found "Atheist he believes in God" nonsense represents the church terribly as a public figure.

Does he?
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Offline biro

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #170 on: July 02, 2015, 10:18:35 AM »
Lord have mercy.

Does Frank still consider himself to be an Orthodox Christian?

Yes.

and that the point in my post eariler maybe I could of worded it better be he still is a member of the Orthodox church and lashing out in anger, smearing his parents or his now found "Atheist he believes in God" nonsense represents the church terribly as a public figure.

Huh?

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #171 on: July 02, 2015, 11:54:46 AM »
and that the point in my post eariler maybe I could of worded it better be he still is a member of the Orthodox church and lashing out in anger, smearing his parents or his now found "Atheist he believes in God" nonsense represents the church terribly as a public figure.

You should really read some of his books.  I've listened to him and I don't sense the anger that you do.  I see a lot of thoughtfulness and struggling with a fundamentalist religious upbringing.

I agree fundamentalist upbringing is bad but shouldnt he be working it out in private with his spiritual father. as far as reading his books you read one Frankie book you read them how religion so, bad how the religous right taking over, how he a atheist that believers in god yadda yadda yadda.
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #172 on: July 02, 2015, 01:12:35 PM »
I agree fundamentalist upbringing is bad but shouldnt he be working it out in private with his spiritual father. as far as reading his books you read one Frankie book you read them how religion so, bad how the religous right taking over, how he a atheist that believers in god yadda yadda yadda.

Maybe he has an important message and God doesn't want it "fixed".    It's a good thing in this world that God doesn't iron out our psyches through the Church, otherwise religion would be an excuse towards quietism and disengagement, and not being salt and light.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 01:13:32 PM by Daedelus1138 »

Offline Bob2

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #173 on: July 02, 2015, 04:06:57 PM »
Lord have mercy.

Does Frank still consider himself to be an Orthodox Christian?

Yes.

What is the most recent source supporting this claim? I can find no reference to him being Orthodox on his website: http://www.frankschaeffer.com/index.html If I remember correctly it used to contain some reference.

Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #174 on: July 02, 2015, 04:33:49 PM »
What is the most recent source supporting this claim? I can find no reference to him being Orthodox on his website: http://www.frankschaeffer.com/index.html If I remember correctly it used to contain some reference.

Well, I assume he is still Orthodox.  He's never come out and denied it.  The last book I read of his was Why I am an Atheist that Believes in God.

From what I've read, he is not a proper atheist.  He's a mystic, though at times he does seem to be cynical.  I think the point of him using the word "atheist" is to draw peoples attention to the reality that a life of faith has a lot of ambiguity and he's probably reacting to the zealotry he grew up with and at one time embraced (he was a strong encouragement for his dad to enter into the "religious right", having in his youth been obsessed with cultural issues typical of conservative Calvinism which has always been tinged by Theonomy).

According to this article he's still a communicant at his parish:  http://orthodoxwiki.org/Frank_Schaeffer

I believe the reason he doesn't identify as Orthodox more prominently is that I believe he just sees himself as a "Mere Christian" and doesn't strongly identify with Eastern Orthodox distinctives.  That's not the same as rejecting them, however.  He wants to speak as a progressive Christian, and it probably would not be to his advantage to make a big deal of his membership in the Orthodox Church, especially as so many other progressive Christians have stereotypes or ignorance of Eastern Orthodoxy.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 04:41:21 PM by Daedelus1138 »

Offline William T

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #175 on: July 02, 2015, 05:02:13 PM »
What is the most recent source supporting this claim? I can find no reference to him being Orthodox on his website: http://www.frankschaeffer.com/index.html If I remember correctly it used to contain some reference.

Well, I assume he is still Orthodox.  He's never come out and denied it.  The last book I read of his was Why I am an Atheist that Believes in God.

From what I've read, he is not a proper atheist.  He's a mystic, though at times he does seem to be cynical.  I think the point of him using the word "atheist" is to draw peoples attention to the reality that a life of faith has a lot of ambiguity and he's probably reacting to the zealotry he grew up with and at one time embraced (he was a strong encouragement for his dad to enter into the "religious right", having in his youth been obsessed with cultural issues typical of conservative Calvinism which has always been tinged by Theonomy).

According to this article he's still a communicant at his parish:  http://orthodoxwiki.org/Frank_Schaeffer

I believe the reason he doesn't identify as Orthodox more prominently is that I believe he just sees himself as a "Mere Christian" and doesn't strongly identify with Eastern Orthodox distinctives.  That's not the same as rejecting them, however.  He wants to speak as a progressive Christian, and it probably would not be to his advantage to make a big deal of his membership in the Orthodox Church, especially as so many other progressive Christians have stereotypes or ignorance of Eastern Orthodoxy.

Orthodoxy in the West (especially a more "Protestant/Secular" West), difficult stuff ....especially when politics, or "crisis theology" takes the forefront.  The few converts I knew who tried to convert from some "ex nihilo" intellectual choice, it was a shakey union.  Perhaps some of the problem lies within the divisions of the culture the converts come from, and the specific answers to the problems they seek can't (and shouldn't) be addressed by Orthodoxy.   Of course it doesn't help if Orthodoxy (or Catholicism even) start catering to problems they aren't supposed to address.  That last part is just me speculating, I'm not sure how right that hunch is.  But if I'm right, the Church will only hurt more those seeking some healing...that's not good for anyone.

Anyway, a "progressive Christian" is not a "mere Christian", it's a progressive Christian.   It's fine to protest the treatment of homosexuals and fundamentalist hermeneutics if one feels it necessary to do so, but unless he calls himself a "progressive Christian", the label ought be avoided.  Though, I have no idea who this man is, so I can't speak for him.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 05:03:49 PM by William T »
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #176 on: July 03, 2015, 12:34:02 AM »
  Anyway, a "progressive Christian" is not a "mere Christian", it's a progressive Christian.   It's fine to protest the treatment of homosexuals and fundamentalist hermeneutics if one feels it necessary to do so, but unless he calls himself a "progressive Christian", the label ought be avoided.  Though, I have no idea who this man is, so I can't speak for him.


Just consider that his blog is under the Progressive Christian channel on the Patheos website. 

Very rarely will he mention Orthodoxy on his blog.

I suspect Mr. Schaeffer is Orthodox for the same reasons a lot of other ex-Reformed Protestants are Orthodox.  But given his vocation as an artist, it's not surprising he has trended leftward over his lifetime, especially with the rightward culture shift since the 70's.

Offline Bob2

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #177 on: July 03, 2015, 09:34:26 AM »
, especially with the rightward culture shift since the 70's.

 this  has  not  been  my  observation

Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #178 on: July 03, 2015, 09:44:34 AM »
this  has  not  been  my  observation

I guess it depends where you live.

Aside from the gay marriage issue and the decline in traditional religion, I'd say Americans in many ways are more conservative than in the past, especially the 70's.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 09:45:56 AM by Daedelus1138 »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #179 on: July 03, 2015, 10:03:14 AM »
this  has  not  been  my  observation

I guess it depends where you live.

Aside from the gay marriage issue and the decline in traditional religion, I'd say Americans in many ways are more conservative than in the past, especially the 70's.

How so?
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