Author Topic: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right  (Read 5446 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nacho

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,482
  • The face of Corporate America
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #135 on: October 20, 2013, 01:22:01 AM »
The OP's title would be correct if he visited the politics section of this forum... ;D
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,194
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #136 on: October 20, 2013, 12:46:35 PM »
I can't respond any further without crossing the Politics line except to say we often talk past each other with the use of buzzwords without stopping to listen to what the other person is saying.

Being opposed to the statutory redefinition of marriage and abortion does not, from my point of view, allow an Orthodox Christian to be ignorant about or indifferent to dangerous heresies such as "Christian" reconstructionism any more than a (buzzword coming) a socialist leaning Orthodox Christian can be ignorant of, or indifferent to the dangers of Leninism or Maoism. 

If you lie down with dogs, don't be surprised about the fleas.

Online Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,610
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #137 on: October 20, 2013, 02:07:20 PM »
Since when are reconstructionists representative of Reformed/Calvinists in America? William is right.

PS I'm a graduate of Calvin College
Calvin College is a long way away from RTS—Jackson, which as recently as a five years ago was dealing with what to do with the reconstructionists in their midst.

I am not saying they're a huge presence. But they're not "absolutely nobody."
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,346
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #138 on: October 20, 2013, 02:29:38 PM »
Yes they do, they think the US should be ruled by Old Testament laws in Leviticus. That is not an abstraction, it's what they say and believe.

Absolutely no one believes this.

Actually, if Wikipedia is to be believed, then some people do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

The article more or less confirms what I've been saying in this thread.

Let's be honest here, when most progressives talk about "the religious right" they're using a buzzword to refer to people against homosexual marriage and abortion. The latter of which has a ton of opposition even outside of religious and conservative circles. And not to be too political here, but Orthodox Christians really shouldn't have a problem with someone opposing either.

Maybe Progressives do use it as a buzzword, so what? That doesn't change the reality of the Religious Right. The Religious Right are Nativist Evangelical Protestants. Orthodox people should oppose the Religious Right on all of those fronts.

I oppose the Religious Right even though I am against abortion and homosexual marriages. Any sane person should oppose the Religious Right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Wf2w1HnBA - Pastor: Obama is the Antichrist; works for the Illuminati and the 'New World Order'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OygDw2m3z4U - Pastor: Orthodox-Catholic Christianity is Babylonian idol worship; Anti-Christ.
I like how John Hagee says that Emperor Constantine became the Pope of the "Babylonian Cult" of Rome.

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,619
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2013, 04:28:11 PM »
I like how John Hagee says that Emperor Constantine became the Pope of the "Babylonian Cult" of Rome.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #140 on: October 20, 2013, 04:29:47 PM »
Yes they do, they think the US should be ruled by Old Testament laws in Leviticus. That is not an abstraction, it's what they say and believe.

Absolutely no one believes this.

Actually, if Wikipedia is to be believed, then some people do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

The article more or less confirms what I've been saying in this thread.

Let's be honest here, when most progressives talk about "the religious right" they're using a buzzword to refer to people against homosexual marriage and abortion. The latter of which has a ton of opposition even outside of religious and conservative circles. And not to be too political here, but Orthodox Christians really shouldn't have a problem with someone opposing either.

Maybe Progressives do use it as a buzzword, so what? That doesn't change the reality of the Religious Right. The Religious Right are Nativist Evangelical Protestants. Orthodox people should oppose the Religious Right on all of those fronts.

I oppose the Religious Right even though I am against abortion and homosexual marriages. Any sane person should oppose the Religious Right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Wf2w1HnBA - Pastor: Obama is the Antichrist; works for the Illuminati and the 'New World Order'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OygDw2m3z4U - Pastor: Orthodox-Catholic Christianity is Babylonian idol worship; Anti-Christ.
I like how John Hagee says that Emperor Constantine became the Pope of the "Babylonian Cult" of Rome.

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!
I prefer to call him John Hajji.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,346
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #141 on: October 20, 2013, 08:05:38 PM »
I like how John Hagee says that Emperor Constantine became the Pope of the "Babylonian Cult" of Rome.
Oh crap.  You got me.  :laugh:
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #142 on: October 20, 2013, 09:28:47 PM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,076
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #143 on: October 21, 2013, 02:51:20 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

You mean not really?

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,194
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2013, 07:49:44 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,346
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2013, 08:28:09 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,194
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2013, 10:07:46 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".

But...they have more contemporary influence on political figures in America than does any Orthodox who foolishly seek the 'recapture'.

This may push this discussion into Politics, but that is one of Frank's points about the senator from Texas and several others. While their beliefs may not, and yes -I will grant that they do not - reflect the overwhelming majority of the ill-described coalition known as the 'religious right' (I don't mean they are irreligious, but that the wide range of theological opinions expressed therein make it at best a loose fitting coalition.) they have enough influence for others not so inclined to keep a careful watch to ensure their heterodoxy doesn't spread. That's all I am trying to get across without starting a wide ranging debate about the role of religion and politics and alliance building in a non-homogeneous society.

I find it ironic that the Ecumenical Patriarch is criticized for his point of view on the matter coming from a culture where Christianity is a tiny demographic sliver, but others have no issue with making nice with folks who profess to be Christian in American who have little more in common with Orthodoxy and the Church of Nicea than do the Muslims.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,346
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2013, 10:21:11 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".

But...they have more contemporary influence on political figures in America than does any Orthodox who foolishly seek the 'recapture'.

This may push this discussion into Politics, but that is one of Frank's points about the senator from Texas and several others. While their beliefs may not, and yes -I will grant that they do not - reflect the overwhelming majority of the ill-described coalition known as the 'religious right' (I don't mean they are irreligious, but that the wide range of theological opinions expressed therein make it at best a loose fitting coalition.) they have enough influence for others not so inclined to keep a careful watch to ensure their heterodoxy doesn't spread. That's all I am trying to get across without starting a wide ranging debate about the role of religion and politics and alliance building in a non-homogeneous society.

I find it ironic that the Ecumenical Patriarch is criticized for his point of view on the matter coming from a culture where Christianity is a tiny demographic sliver, but others have no issue with making nice with folks who profess to be Christian in American who have little more in common with Orthodoxy and the Church of Nicea than do the Muslims.
That is a good point.  Although, I can't imagine that too many Orthodox Christians would make nice with the Reconstructionist movement "Christians".  They are just scary. Of course, I could be wrong, but I really hope not.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 10:21:44 AM by TheTrisagion »
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,194
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2013, 10:38:14 AM »
Reconstructionism among Calvinists is probably about as common as monarchism among Orthodox.

So it persists among a relatively small, but persistent minority?
I have known some Reconstructionists, but I would definitely say they are on the fringes of Calvinism. Probably about as prevalent as those in Orthodoxy advocating the recapture of "Constantinople".

But...they have more contemporary influence on political figures in America than does any Orthodox who foolishly seek the 'recapture'.

This may push this discussion into Politics, but that is one of Frank's points about the senator from Texas and several others. While their beliefs may not, and yes -I will grant that they do not - reflect the overwhelming majority of the ill-described coalition known as the 'religious right' (I don't mean they are irreligious, but that the wide range of theological opinions expressed therein make it at best a loose fitting coalition.) they have enough influence for others not so inclined to keep a careful watch to ensure their heterodoxy doesn't spread. That's all I am trying to get across without starting a wide ranging debate about the role of religion and politics and alliance building in a non-homogeneous society.

I find it ironic that the Ecumenical Patriarch is criticized for his point of view on the matter coming from a culture where Christianity is a tiny demographic sliver, but others have no issue with making nice with folks who profess to be Christian in American who have little more in common with Orthodoxy and the Church of Nicea than do the Muslims.
That is a good point.  Although, I can't imagine that too many Orthodox Christians would make nice with the Reconstructionist movement "Christians".  They are just scary. Of course, I could be wrong, but I really hope not.

Frank scares people as well.

I think though, that it is good to remind people - left or right - to be aware that political alliances are temporal and temporary and that today's ally on one set of issues, may have a quite different agenda in the long run. That type is patient and committed, again - left or right  - it doesn't matter. Put not your trust in princes in whom there is no salvation, as the Good Book reminds us.

Offline Basil 320

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,147
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #149 on: December 06, 2013, 02:14:44 AM »
I've read a few of Frank Shaeffer's Regina Orthodox Press publications, "The Truth" and "The Faith," by Clark Carlton, and "The Complete Book of Orthodoxy," by George W. Grube, and find them most enlightening and informative.

During the Primacy of Archbishop Spyridon of America, of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, ('96-'99), His Eminence, who was rather traditional, had endorsed Mr. Shaeffer's works.  Shaeffer was a Parish Council member of a GOAA parish at the time, on the East Coast (Massachusetts?), if I recall correctly.  Ron Dreher, an Orthodox Christian, claims in a year or so old "The American Conservative" article that Shaeffer doesn't believe in God, but maintains membership in the Greek Orthodox Church and receives Holy Communion therein. That's awfully strange.

I'm a Conservative Republican and have seen Shaeffer on MSNBC.  I don't agree with his political opinions, though I see merit to statements he's made about the Religious Right and their involvement in church activities.  Never-the-less, Regina Orthodox Press is an asset to Orthodox Christians who read about and study their faith in the English language.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:34:58 AM by Basil 320 »
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,194
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Frank Shaeffer equates Orthodox Church with Religious Right
« Reply #150 on: December 07, 2013, 01:38:30 PM »
I've read a few of Frank Shaeffer's Regina Orthodox Press publications, "The Truth" and "The Faith," by Clark Carlton, and "The Complete Book of Orthodoxy," by George W. Grube, and find them most enlightening and informative.

During the Primacy of Archbishop Spyridon of America, of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, ('96-'99), His Eminence, who was rather traditional, had endorsed Mr. Shaeffer's works.  Shaeffer was a Parish Council member of a GOAA parish at the time, on the East Coast (Massachusetts?), if I recall correctly.  Ron Dreher, an Orthodox Christian, claims in a year or so old "The American Conservative" article that Shaeffer doesn't believe in God, but maintains membership in the Greek Orthodox Church and receives Holy Communion therein. That's awfully strange.

I'm a Conservative Republican and have seen Shaeffer on MSNBC.  I don't agree with his political opinions, though I see merit to statements he's made about the Religious Right and their involvement in church activities.  Never-the-less, Regina Orthodox Press is an asset to Orthodox Christians who read about and study their faith in the English language.

We must be careful in our alliances though. Some prominent evangelical leaders in the movement (some,not all) don't view us or the Roman Catholics as being authentically Christian. That makes it difficult for me to "march" with them as they actively  poach our faithful whenever they can.