Author Topic: Western Rite Visit  (Read 2427 times)

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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2013, 11:26:31 AM »
Don't be shocked if the WR stops existing within a few years or decades. Would that be a deal breaker for you?
Me neither. Im Orthodox. Unlike the "U-word", I share the same tradition (and Tradition) as my ER brethren, the same canon, the same bishops, the same EXACT faith. If tomorrow, the WR was eliminated, it wouldn't change me in the least. I'd be sad, because the WR is an actual attempt to renew the history and tradition of the Orthodox pre-schism west. I think that we'd lose a wonderful resource to evangelize the west, but I'd simply become just like every other Orthodox Christian and practice the only rite left available to me.

PP
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Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline gueranger

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2013, 05:22:45 PM »
Quote
You don't necessarily need WR bishops if existing bishops learn how to serve, and you probably don't need a diocese
The only issue that I agree with you on. We should not have specifically WR bishops. That makes us no different than the "U word", which we are not, nor were supposed to be.

PP

I don't see a need for them, but what would be inappropriate about a Western Rite Orthodox bishop? In a hundred years? I can see why it wouldn't be good to do in say, Rome. But why not other places?

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2013, 05:33:21 PM »
Quote
You don't necessarily need WR bishops if existing bishops learn how to serve, and you probably don't need a diocese
The only issue that I agree with you on. We should not have specifically WR bishops. That makes us no different than the "U word", which we are not, nor were supposed to be.

PP

I don't see a need for them, but what would be inappropriate about a Western Rite Orthodox bishop? In a hundred years? I can see why it wouldn't be good to do in say, Rome. But why not other places?

I agree. There is nothing wrong with a Western Rite Bishop. The Church should be flexible on other Rites and accommodate them.
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)

Offline TheMathematician

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2013, 06:02:49 PM »
Quote
You don't necessarily need WR bishops if existing bishops learn how to serve, and you probably don't need a diocese
The only issue that I agree with you on. We should not have specifically WR bishops. That makes us no different than the "U word", which we are not, nor were supposed to be.

PP

I don't see a need for them, but what would be inappropriate about a Western Rite Orthodox bishop? In a hundred years? I can see why it wouldn't be good to do in say, Rome. But why not other places?

I agree. There is nothing wrong with a Western Rite Bishop. The Church should be flexible on other Rites and accommodate them.
The western rite bishop should be the same bishop as ER parishes. one city, one bishop(i know we violate this, but we shouldnt do it more)

Offline alexpetros

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2013, 03:52:08 AM »
A lot of my Catholic friends like to say to me, "Alex, if there was an Eastern Catholic parish near you, then you would be fine. You could get your love of East and West there and still remain Catholic."

The funny thing is, I understand and know to be true the Orthodox Church is the True Faith. My angst is not having an eastern Rite in communion with Rome, but having a western Rite in communion with the One True Church.

I am a westerner, born and raised. I love the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom, but I was raised on the Roman Missal. That was the faith that shaped me into who I am. If there is a chance that as Orthodox I can still be in union with the One True Church and maintain the western home of the Liturgy of St Gregory, then I shall take it. However, if the Western Rite becomes obsolete, then I will be saddened but remain a Orthodox Christian none the less. If the bishops decided to suspend indefinitely the Liturgy of St Gregory, then I should acknowledge greater understanding of the Church than I have.

Do I wish my OCA mission parish would start the Liturgy of St Gregory? Yes. Am I going to go out of my way to find a parish that does? No.

On a side note, could the ancient western Celtic Rite come back? :P

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2013, 09:13:01 AM »
Quote
You don't necessarily need WR bishops if existing bishops learn how to serve, and you probably don't need a diocese
The only issue that I agree with you on. We should not have specifically WR bishops. That makes us no different than the "U word", which we are not, nor were supposed to be.

PP

I don't see a need for them, but what would be inappropriate about a Western Rite Orthodox bishop? In a hundred years? I can see why it wouldn't be good to do in say, Rome. But why not other places?
Because a Bishop is a Bishop is a Bishop. The who thing about there being a separate bishop for a rite is a Roman innovation. It is also a main reason why the WR should not considered reverse-uniatism.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline sheenj

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2013, 09:23:19 AM »
Quote
You don't necessarily need WR bishops if existing bishops learn how to serve, and you probably don't need a diocese
The only issue that I agree with you on. We should not have specifically WR bishops. That makes us no different than the "U word", which we are not, nor were supposed to be.

PP

I don't see a need for them, but what would be inappropriate about a Western Rite Orthodox bishop? In a hundred years? I can see why it wouldn't be good to do in say, Rome. But why not other places?
Because a Bishop is a Bishop is a Bishop. The who thing about there being a separate bishop for a rite is a Roman innovation. It is also a main reason why the WR should not considered reverse-uniatism.

PP

So would it be fine if WR Bishop simply refers to an Orthodox Bishop whose rite is WR, but still has jursidiction is solely based on Geography? Without ritual considerations?

Offline mike

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2013, 09:24:31 AM »
Quote
You don't necessarily need WR bishops if existing bishops learn how to serve, and you probably don't need a diocese
The only issue that I agree with you on. We should not have specifically WR bishops. That makes us no different than the "U word", which we are not, nor were supposed to be.

PP

I don't see a need for them, but what would be inappropriate about a Western Rite Orthodox bishop? In a hundred years? I can see why it wouldn't be good to do in say, Rome. But why not other places?
Because a Bishop is a Bishop is a Bishop. The who thing about there being a separate bishop for a rite is a Roman innovation. It is also a main reason why the WR should not considered reverse-uniatism.

PP

So would it be fine if WR Bishop simply refers to an Orthodox Bishop whose rite is WR, but still has jursidiction is solely based on Geography? Without ritual considerations?

That would be canonical.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2013, 09:26:57 AM »
Quote
You don't necessarily need WR bishops if existing bishops learn how to serve, and you probably don't need a diocese
The only issue that I agree with you on. We should not have specifically WR bishops. That makes us no different than the "U word", which we are not, nor were supposed to be.

PP

I don't see a need for them, but what would be inappropriate about a Western Rite Orthodox bishop? In a hundred years? I can see why it wouldn't be good to do in say, Rome. But why not other places?
Because a Bishop is a Bishop is a Bishop. The who thing about there being a separate bishop for a rite is a Roman innovation. It is also a main reason why the WR should not considered reverse-uniatism.

PP

So would it be fine if WR Bishop simply refers to an Orthodox Bishop whose rite is WR, but still has jursidiction is solely based on Geography? Without ritual considerations?
I think all Bishops should be allowed to perform a WR liturgy or an ER. That way, none of this becomes an issue....which is basically what Michal said.

Then again, I also believe that there should be 1 Bishop in a city regardless of jurisdiction.....

In other news, it bothers me when our Bishop shows up and cant participate in the liturgy with us.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Rdunbar123

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2013, 05:16:33 PM »
Don't be shocked if the WR stops existing within a few years or decades. Would that be a deal breaker for you?
Me neither. Im Orthodox. Unlike the "U-word", I share the same tradition (and Tradition) as my ER brethren, the same canon, the same bishops, the same EXACT faith. If tomorrow, the WR was eliminated, it wouldn't change me in the least. I'd be sad, because the WR is an actual attempt to renew the history and tradition of the Orthodox pre-schism west. I think that we'd lose a wonderful resource to evangelize the west, but I'd simply become just like every other Orthodox Christian and practice the only rite left available to me.

PP

I agree completely . before I became Orthodox I was RC and determined that if the WR ended, I would also be sad but my theology is EO. if the western liturgy was the only attraction I  would go 5 miles to my old church rather than an 80 mile round trip. a solution for those opposed to WR-don't visit
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:28:52 PM by Rdunbar123 »

Offline Alpo

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Re: Western Rite Visit
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2013, 12:36:09 AM »
Don't be shocked if the WR stops existing within a few years or decades. Would that be a deal breaker for you?

Yes, because WRO is only about smells and bells whereas BRO is about Holy Fathers and Theosis. Same question could be asked from ER inquirers. Yet no one does that.