Author Topic: Intercession of Saints  (Read 3285 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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Intercession of Saints
« on: September 23, 2013, 09:28:12 AM »
Some people don't like it and they accuse us of necromancy that is calling of the dead. Some seekers of why we do this intercession are accused of willful rejection of truth it may be true but it is not for us to say unless we have divine gifts

23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

I myself thought someone coming from a protestant background asking this is just wanting to find fault
but then I though to myself what if I try to ask a saint to help me. Then I knew if he appeared it could be from the devil and orthodoxy agrees with that but I never thought to use that to defend myself. I often end up forgetful of the fathers

therefore we can not pray to saints because the devil may appear.But should we risk it and do it anyway and fight the apparition with scripture?

why do protestants often speak the truth against those who abuse orthodox tradition? and then they are turned away from orthodoxy from the foolish people or who are confused. Unfortunately is it not possible that some orthodox are in fact idol worshippers? and the devil teaches them to not love others etc?


« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 09:30:48 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Faith2545

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 11:49:47 AM »
In my view, asking/praying for the intercessions of saints, and particularly that of our Holy Mother the Theotokos, is almost an  obligation as faithful Christian Orthodox! It is a duty! This is why we are names after saints and not 'things' and 'places' like, Willow and Brooklyn. We are names after saints and our God, His Holy Mother, the Archangels, for example. We are encouraged by our faith as Orth. Christians to seek their help unceasingly through prayers & intercessions. God tells us to be 'like' Him - through examples, works, and those that have BECOME saints did so by doing just that - become 'like' God.

I have an unfavorable opinion towards the Protestant faith for reasons as mentioned above. They chose to alter means and ways with the sole purpose of diverting a soul's attention and faith from the real truth. I had a friend who's grandmother was a Protestant, my friend grew up Greek Orthodox after her mother converted,  who had told me a few years back that she had attended a Protestant church service with her grandmother, and said when it came time for the Eucharist, the priest had used GRAPEJUICE instead on wine, insisting that wine will trigger the passion of alcoholics or recovering alcoholics to drink, should they take Holy Communion with wine!!! HOW BLASPHAMOUS TO THE SACRAMENT!!! How is that even possible to even consider?? Grapejuice??? Shame. I was furious upon hearing this.  And it is my understanding that it is common practice in Protestant churches....shame if that be the case.... 

Back to case at point - asking for a saint's intercession is unshaken belief that your prayer to him/her will go directly to God's ear. And that's the whole purpose of intercession - believing a trusting the Lord will answer through His faithful representatives, our Saints.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 11:16:23 PM »
Thanks for your zeal but you have not addressed the insensitivity towards those who are seekers. Don't try to make yourselves more Holy than others. God says if any is doing that hopefully not they are as a smoke in His nostrils which burns all the day. You must be humble in your approach to others.
St Paul says to show humility to all men. Is not asking for a miracle from a saint sometimes testing the LORD as an action of pride. When one does not need a miracle do not seek one. My understanding is the our church fathers are on my side on this issue. St Paul says he boasted in his infirmities that he may be more effective as a witness. God only gives miracles to those who need it and it is never an issue of pride. We should not seek apparitions of saints. God is not the author of confusion but of peace. God wants to work miracles for unbelievers mostly if it is used to build up a faith. But we works miracles only to believers to be healed but not to puff that person up. Never turn people away for their lack of faith. Jesus never turned any one away who may want to follow Him nor do He insult any of His enemies but kept loving them

Offline Faith2545

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 11:30:03 PM »
I believe you are on the wrong forum.

Please go study. And have a clearer understanding of what you seek. I suggest speaking to a priest.
Good luck.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 12:30:10 AM »
I hope you are wishing me good luck from your heart and not your lips
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 12:39:37 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 01:11:29 AM »
I have sinned in my post please forgive me. I myself would like an apparition from Jesus or a saint to guide me and I must not curse any man who is made in the simultude of God and I may be annoyed with my own spiritual failures and blaming you.

I know noone will respect someone who does not damn others (why take his words seriously?) but if you damn me and say what you have said can never be erased (even if you repent) because you think you have the authority to damn and maybe you are right. The authority to not forgive (I mean as part of the church and priests give you authority as you gain that right because you listen to them) This is why my dad does not practice church sacraments often though he considers himself orthodox please pray for him. Or maybe I should not bring my dad into this for he only means when partners go to priests and have confession and take communion when they have not forgiven someone or their partner for a sin
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 01:16:41 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 02:20:06 AM »
To me damnation happens to wilful sinners because they can not stand to see the righteous praised and all getting their deserved reward and God says in Jeremiah he will cast them out of His presence with an everlasting reproach that will not be forgitten because they do not love peace everyone thinks he may repent later but noone deserves salvation not even the chosen but they do deserve it because they accept God out of love God wants to give a free gift to all but it won't come to the swine who did not respect it now
I am orthodox and I will always be orthodox but I believe in showing compassion to all
It not fair however if God does not keep seeking the lost and not make my sins hinder them from seeing His fairness and accepting Him
I say the above when people really got their chance here
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 02:45:51 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline LBK

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 06:37:00 AM »
Umm, mikeforjesus, your last few posts have been all over the place. I'm having trouble understanding what you're getting at.  ???
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 09:35:13 AM »
I am not seeking any more replies I am not wise and need help from somewhere but it may not be available to me if I continue this way
Please pray for me I won't listen to any people who give advice that troubles me but I have to find the truth while it may be found
I myself do not understand myself fully but I want to pour out what is in my heart somewhere
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 09:37:16 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 11:00:45 AM »
why does this forum not allow modifying? randomly you can sometimes and sometimes you can't just quotes are allowed

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 11:27:14 AM »
why does this forum not allow modifying? randomly you can sometimes and sometimes you can't just quotes are allowed

I think you are allod allowed to modify your post within a certain period of time and the =n then you are unable to.  8)
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2013, 11:57:16 AM »
Orthodox believe that saints that have passed on were righteous people and as such have gained God's favor and we believe are enjoying eternal bliss with Him.  St. Mary, the greatest of all saints, is especially invoked to intercede for us sinners.  Would a Son deny His Mother?  Lesser saints, eg St. Panteleimon, have performed miraculous healings, and I have witnessed one myself in my parish.  So, knowing that we sinners need all the help we can get do and with love ask those righteous to intercede on our behalf.  Of course this does not nor should it supercede our prayers to God in anyway.

Offline orthodox4life

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2013, 01:00:15 PM »
There is one thought about intercessory prayer of the saints that sold me. As Christians we are connected by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If something should happen to one of us, what changed about that connection? That spiritual connection is stronger than any mortal blood connection to family. It's eternal.

My family asked me "why ask for intercession by a saint when you can ask Jesus?" My answer was, "have you ever asked anyone to pray for you?"
The true Orthodox way of thought has always been historical, has always included the past, but has never been enslaved by it. . . for the strength of the Church is not in the past, present, or future, but in Christ.

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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2013, 07:35:12 PM »
 On other threads this week,  some posters were waxing eloquently bemoaning our loss of pasadi.  Are you happy now?

Offline LBK

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 07:56:31 PM »
I am not seeking any more replies I am not wise and need help from somewhere but it may not be available to me if I continue this way
Please pray for me I won't listen to any people who give advice that troubles me but I have to find the truth while it may be found
I myself do not understand myself fully but I want to pour out what is in my heart somewhere


Talk to your priest. SOON!!
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 10:15:52 PM »
Orthodox believe that saints that have passed on were righteous people and as such have gained God's favor and we believe are enjoying eternal bliss with Him.  St. Mary, the greatest of all saints, is especially invoked to intercede for us sinners.  Would a Son deny His Mother?  Lesser saints, eg St. Panteleimon, have performed miraculous healings, and I have witnessed one myself in my parish.  So, knowing that we sinners need all the help we can get do and with love ask those righteous to intercede on our behalf.  Of course this does not nor should it supercede our prayers to God in anyway.

Just wanted to inform you that orthodoxy does not think St Mary has more compassion than Jesus when we ask her intercession. St Mary prays in according to God's will who desires all men to be saved and God wants her to do so and she continues to show how she loved God most.
My mother is she who does the will of God and obeys it

I am not seeking any more replies I am not wise and need help from somewhere but it may not be available to me if I continue this way
Please pray for me I won't listen to any people who give advice that troubles me but I have to find the truth while it may be found
I myself do not understand myself fully but I want to pour out what is in my heart somewhere


Talk to your priest. SOON!!


I am trying very hard. I have talked already to several priests none of them wanted to be my FOC but just accept to discuss matters
but I know one now who may to accept me to be the one to pour out all my troubles to get guidance



Offline Faith2545

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2013, 10:24:31 PM »
I am not seeking any more replies I am not wise and need help from somewhere but it may not be available to me if I continue this way
Please pray for me I won't listen to any people who give advice that troubles me but I have to find the truth while it may be found
I myself do not understand myself fully but I want to pour out what is in my heart somewhere


Talk to your priest. SOON!!

Thank you!! I say no more.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 12:12:53 AM »
Those who preach wrong things in Gods name and peace when there is no peace both the sinner and the false prophet will be filled with an everlasting reproach especially those who are wolves in sheep clothing who desire to work for satan or make people suffer and will be cast out of Gods presence
I can not say anymore if someone's sins are forgiven I know there is always hope for those who are alive but one is not promised tommorow. I can not preach without being a prophet sent from God
But why do our priests also not see visions anymore why does God use fallible men to forgive sin ?
The apostles and their descendants are supposed to have the Holy Spirit and therefore be able to loose or bind
Because only those who obey Jesus have the Holy Spirit and they see visions and things to come Jesus says
Those who love God more than father and mother
Why is there no more prophets does God only want us to listen to His Son ?
And also all Gods people for there the Holy Spirit is when two or three are gathered in My name there am I in the midst of them and if two or three agree on anything it will be done for them by My Father?
There is no more prophets to Jerusalem but is there not now apostles for the Gentiles with gifts of healings ?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 02:05:33 AM »
I speak comfort to my sister and won't let orthodox ruin her marriage I don't tell her she needs to obey my advice to stay strictly orthodox and never go inside a Catholic Church  I must see what priests say as you have shown I am fallible and must listen to priests
Orthodox ignore me too often and they want to forbid any friendship and praying with Protestants
I will only make decisions when I know 100% they are true just like the rich man who asked what must i do to have eternal life heard from Jesus he knew but it was too hard to follow
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 02:07:36 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline tangentdi

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2013, 04:33:18 AM »
MikeforJesus, You have my prayers, and I will keep you in them in my morning prayers each day.
You seem to have a great commitment to your faith and this is a beautiful thing, I am no teacher I think, Most of the questions you put forward have wonderful answers in book form. I hope you'll forgive me for not attempting to answer them myself right now. What I really wanted to say boils down to a few things.

1. You mentioned that others have told you not to be friends with protestants. This is most certainly NOT an Orthodox teaching. We must love our brothers and sisters in other faiths. We should be friends with them and hope that they will through us see Orthodoxy as the blessing it is.

2. Have you considered taking a short stay at a monastery? A man with serious faith can always profit from discussions with those who live the ascetic life.

3. Seek out some books on these topics as there are exhaustive discussions of them in book form. Also having read one of these books give you a good base of discussion when you seek help from a Priest.

Orthodoxy is a wide and deep faith. We all have so much more to learn! Reading the lives of the Saints can show me again and again how much I still have to learn.

God bless you and keep you always!
~Tangentdi

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 09:21:45 AM »
Thanks alot dear friend I must confess they do not forbid not being friends but they forbid praying with them even if I wanted to pray in an orthodox manner and say I am orthodox
But are we to treat Protestants as not saved even though they do not feel they can join orthodoxy ? Am I responsible for them if they don't convert ?
I may see some books on light and life publishing and buy them
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 09:23:44 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline tangentdi

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 10:03:37 AM »
Quote
Thanks alot dear friend I must confess they do not forbid not being friends but they forbid praying with them even if I wanted to pray in an orthodox manner and say I am orthodox
But are we to treat Protestants as not saved even though they do not feel they can join orthodoxy ? Am I responsible for them if they don't convert ?
I may see some books on light and life publishing and buy them

I have actually had the occasion to talk to my own priest on these issues, and he gave me a favorable reply.
What he told me was that the Orthodox church taught was "Spermaticos Logos." (I'm fairly sure I misspelled that.) Which means "The seed of the Truth." My understanding was that while protestant churches had heretical teachings, they did have valid points in their faith as well. I do not think we can easily dismiss those who Call to God.  Also there is a great quote: "We can say where the church is, but we cannot say where the church is not."  And also the verse, "Many sheep are not of the fold."

As I have said, I am not a priest. Though I have been taught that I can pray with others so long as I pray in a respectful and Orthodox way. Though praying in tongues and such would not be smiled upon. And I should never receive communion in another faith.

If I may recommend listening to this podcast. http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

As to the last two questions, I would say it is not up to us to judge anyone saved or not, but rather to treat them as if they are spiritually Ill. The church is often compared to a spiritual Hospital. And no I would not think that you are responsible for them, it is up to them to choose what they believe. God gave us free will for this.
Forgive me if my language is imprecise, I've been up a little too long at this point.
God bless you brother!
~Tangentdi

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2013, 10:23:20 PM »
Hh
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 10:41:16 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline LBK

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2013, 10:25:57 PM »
Thanks but that's where oriental orthodox differ
Sinners are sick but after death God stops loving people even those who would have desired to be healed but had important commitments and worries that were unresolved

 :o :o :o

Paging Dr Mor Ephrem ....
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 10:26:18 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2013, 10:38:32 PM »
Who is dr mor ephrem? An early church father?
Are you offended from my post ?

Offline LBK

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2013, 10:44:39 PM »
Who is dr mor ephrem? An early church father?
Are you offended from my post ?

I would be truly alarmed if what you wrote is what the OO believe.

Mor Ephrem is an OO member of the forum, and a very knowledgeable one. There are other OOs here who know much about the faith as well.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2013, 10:51:56 PM »
Ok thanks for clarifying
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 10:55:51 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2013, 12:07:22 AM »
Thanks but that's where oriental orthodox differ
Sinners are sick but after death God stops loving people even those who would have desired to be healed but had important commitments and worries that were unresolved

 :o :o :o

Paging Dr Mor Ephrem ....

If God stopped loving people after their death, that would be the true death, for people and for God. 

In other words, no, Mike, God does not stop loving people, even after death.  No OO teaches otherwise.

I don't know what it means for someone to have wanted to be healed but "had important commitments and worries that were unresolved".  Thankfully, God does, and knows what to do about it.  :)

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 12:07:59 AM »
Who is dr mor ephrem? An early church father?

 :D

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2013, 12:23:43 AM »
Thanks for replying.

I know God does not stop loving but does He stop desiring to save?

The parable of lazarus and the rich man teaches us that God will make the righteous happy and the kingdom is prepared for them only who are righteous. Some people perhaps choose to be separated from God now and die will God honor their request even though it makes other righteous people very troubled  yet at the same time not desiring to save them if it will make no peace in heaven and they may plot rebellion as cain desired to kill abel

« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 12:29:40 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2013, 12:38:37 AM »
Thanks for replying.

I know God does not stop loving but does He stop desiring to save?

I don't see how God could cease desiring to save if he does not stop loving.  Salvation is an act of love. 

That doesn't mean that human beings can't put obstacles in between themselves and God.  And God respects those if such is our desire.  But God still loves, still desires to save. 

Quote
The parable of lazarus and the rich man teaches us that God will make the righteous happy and the kingdom is prepared for them only who are righteous. Some people perhaps choose to be separated from God now and die will God honor their request even though it makes other righteous people very troubled  yet at the same time not desiring to save them if it will make no peace in heaven and they may plot rebellion as cain desired to kill abel

Can you explain the bolded part a bit more?  I'm not following you.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2013, 01:04:10 AM »
Thanks for replying.

I know God does not stop loving but does He stop desiring to save?

I don't see how God could cease desiring to save if he does not stop loving.  Salvation is an act of love.  

That doesn't mean that human beings can't put obstacles in between themselves and God.  And God respects those if such is our desire.  But God still loves, still desires to save.  

Quote
The parable of lazarus and the rich man teaches us that God will make the righteous happy and the kingdom is prepared for them only who are righteous. Some people perhaps choose to be separated from God now and die will God honor their request even though it makes other righteous people very troubled  yet at the same time not desiring to save them if it will make no peace in heaven and they may plot rebellion as cain desired to kill abel

Can you explain the bolded part a bit more?  I'm not following you.


I mean God said I will not strive with flesh forever. For He must put a stop to peoples desire to rebel.
There must be no sin in heaven. Once every one is warned everyone receives his reward but as there is no sin in heaven there is no more envy either
I feel sad if God damns people because I don't feel He is warning them and giving them a good chance to join the fullness of His will and take His body and blood.
Only those found written in the lambs book of life were saved. But this is assuming people are given their chance

I don't like too much questions from posters towards me as I pour out my foolishness (out of frustration in not being able to reply) on many non hearing/hearing ears and defile many. And I am not allowed to interpret scripture on my own. I need to be a workman that needs not be ashamed. I must not cheat or corrupt anyone. I must have regard for good things in the sight of all

I can not handle replying appropriately as I have study to do and I am busy. But I must give time for the things of God I thought

« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 01:05:49 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline LBK

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2013, 01:05:34 AM »
mikeforjesus, have you spoken to your priest about any of this?
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2013, 01:07:17 AM »
mikeforjesus, have you spoken to your priest about any of this?

Yes I have talked about things by email maybe not this topic. I try to contact in person. I am really trying to make time and be prepared. I don't want to travel and not be prepared and have a futile meeting and leave feeling the priest does not care much about me. Because God only blesses the prepared but what about those who are disabled or do not want to deal with many priests inconveniences? I want to be able to study and still benefit spiritually not wait all day for a priest to finally find me worthy of help and want to help me
Still I am trying to travel to see a certain priest. I just hope he is the right father confessor who will be there for me and thirst after righteousness
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 01:15:50 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2013, 01:47:47 AM »
I mean God said I will not strive with flesh forever. For He must put a stop to peoples desire to rebel.
There must be no sin in heaven. Once every one is warned everyone receives his reward but as there is no sin in heaven there is no more envy either
I feel sad if God damns people because I don't feel He is warning them and giving them a good chance to join the fullness of His will and take His body and blood.
Only those found written in the lambs book of life were saved. But this is assuming people are given their chance

I don't like too much questions from posters towards me as I pour out my foolishness (out of frustration in not being able to reply) on many non hearing/hearing ears and defile many. And I am not allowed to interpret scripture on my own. I need to be a workman that needs not be ashamed. I must not cheat or corrupt anyone. I must have regard for good things in the sight of all

I can not handle replying appropriately as I have study to do and I am busy. But I must give time for the things of God I thought




I was going to ask some more questions, but then I read the bolded part.  :)

There's a lot above that makes me wonder if you are understanding what you are reading when you read Scripture...I think somewhere along the line you may have missed an important point.  That happens, and when it does, it means our interpretation is wrong or incomplete.  Perhaps this is something that is better discussed when you have more free time.  Until then, keep reading Scripture, but always after praying that God will help you to understand what you are reading and will teach you how to live accordingly.  And pray that God will lead you to the confessor he wants for you, so you can learn from him.     

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2013, 01:53:30 AM »
I mean God said I will not strive with flesh forever. For He must put a stop to peoples desire to rebel.
There must be no sin in heaven. Once every one is warned everyone receives his reward but as there is no sin in heaven there is no more envy either
I feel sad if God damns people because I don't feel He is warning them and giving them a good chance to join the fullness of His will and take His body and blood.
Only those found written in the lambs book of life were saved. But this is assuming people are given their chance

I don't like too much questions from posters towards me as I pour out my foolishness (out of frustration in not being able to reply) on many non hearing/hearing ears and defile many. And I am not allowed to interpret scripture on my own. I need to be a workman that needs not be ashamed. I must not cheat or corrupt anyone. I must have regard for good things in the sight of all

I can not handle replying appropriately as I have study to do and I am busy. But I must give time for the things of God I thought




I was going to ask some more questions, but then I read the bolded part.  :)

There's a lot above that makes me wonder if you are understanding what you are reading when you read Scripture...I think somewhere along the line you may have missed an important point.  That happens, and when it does, it means our interpretation is wrong or incomplete.  Perhaps this is something that is better discussed when you have more free time.  Until then, keep reading Scripture, but always after praying that God will help you to understand what you are reading and will teach you how to live accordingly.  And pray that God will lead you to the confessor he wants for you, so you can learn from him.     

Thanks I will try to do as you say 

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2013, 10:45:07 PM »
I will try not to make meaningless posts here but on my blog because then it looks like I am desperate for attention. But I only want to post for edification sake of myself or other people
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 11:05:09 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2013, 12:22:07 AM »
I don't like the bias I had to those who are cheated on or going to be
Those being hurt also need to forgive and if they don't forgive they are the bigger adulterers
Damning others never helped anyone Jesus loved the adulterer and seeks their repentance
Don't use damnation beg and plead your wife to return if it is not too late
I am saying this as my mother has a cousin that is having a breakup
And it is none of my business but here I am being an idiot
The adulterer may also be heart broken
No one should test their partners power to forgive for they may want to but men teach them not to or something
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:27:40 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2013, 02:47:37 PM »
On other threads this week,  some posters were waxing eloquently bemoaning our loss of pasadi.  Are you happy now?

Wax on, wax off.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2013, 02:30:06 AM »
Thanks but that's where oriental orthodox differ
Sinners are sick but after death God stops loving people even those who would have desired to be healed but had important commitments and worries that were unresolved

 :o :o :o

Paging Dr Mor Ephrem ....

If God stopped loving people after their death, that would be the true death, for people and for God.  

In other words, no, Mike, God does not stop loving people, even after death.  No OO teaches otherwise.

I don't know what it means for someone to have wanted to be healed but "had important commitments and worries that were unresolved".  Thankfully, God does, and knows what to do about it.  :)


Do you mean we pray for the dead as they are not judged yet to the second death the lake of fire possibly in toll houses till the day of judgement. ?
Or does God stop loving people who go to the second death the last day judgement ?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 02:30:49 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline lovetzatziki

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2013, 07:52:04 PM »
 I think the prayer to the saints it's a mystical thing that hasn't been figured the whole "abc" and that started as a pious intention and according to some it works. Praying to intercessors or 'godly' figures can be found in many religions, including Buddhism(afaik), and from ancient times. Perhaps there is something to it that made it found its similitude in most if not all religions. As for Protestants... Some of them make very good, reasonable points, and no they should not be hated and detasted for it.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Intercession of Saints
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2013, 04:18:51 AM »
I believe intercession of saints is necessary to be able to be saved by their life (even better was it for the disciples was the King of the saints the cause of the disciples salvation who were saved by His life). God commanded us if someone wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
So the saint is obliged to help us become saints ourselves and therefore worthy of salvation. But it is God who helps us know the saint so we may love the saints and have fellowship with them. We do not pray to saints but to God.