Author Topic: On Francis.....  (Read 63262 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #765 on: August 12, 2017, 05:20:01 PM »
Materialism, tying us to earth, its malaise and passion.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #766 on: September 12, 2017, 02:48:44 PM »
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #767 on: September 12, 2017, 04:03:04 PM »
Ouch...

I think the guy represents traditional liturgy and moral theology....
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
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How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Volnutt

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #769 on: October 21, 2017, 05:59:26 PM »

I mean, who kisses an image of a person who is alive

I thought that was the bog standard Orthodox analogy for icons, "It's like kissing a picture of your wife and kids when you're away on a trip."

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Offline Sharbel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #770 on: October 21, 2017, 11:56:11 PM »
http://magister.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2017/10/20/worlds-end-update-the-last-things-according-to-francis/
Pope FI is using the events that led to the anathema of Honorious I, formally rejected in the discussion as of the Vatican Council I, as subterfuge to preach the gospel according to Francis.  After the umpteenth interview with Scalfaro "off the record", it's highly likely that this is so by request of Pope FI, not by a journalistic professional slip.  Likewise the use of letters to bishops affirming their traditionally incongruent interpretation of his Amoris Laetitia.  Truly jesuitical...
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #771 on: October 23, 2017, 03:46:21 PM »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Keep shining, star!

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #772 on: October 23, 2017, 04:30:00 PM »
You know, this post hurt my soul.
The collapse of the Roman Catholic Church is inevitable - whether it be by Christ Himself or before then - but nonetheless, it is horrifying image that a church's leadership - especially one so influential - can fall into such apostasy, promulgate it so effectively without anyone fighting back, and have an extremely powerful Liberal media apparatus that ad-hominems, strawmans, and uses misinformation to threaten and attack anybody who disagrees - by both Liberal Catholic media and secular Western media alike.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/26/opinions/popes-actions-not-heretical-just-human-filipovic/index.html
- This article, for example, uses a strawman argument - painting an image of conservative Roman Catholics as these Pharasaical boogeymen that need to be stopped rather than actually attacking the substance of the argument.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/pope-francis-is-no-heretic/article36449656/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
- Completely misunderstands "Papal Infallibility" as Vatican I defined it, and paints anybody who tries to correct a Pope as a traitor (ignoring pre-schism Church History as well as post-schism church history).

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/world/pope-heresy/index.html
- This article claims that the critics aren't in line with traditional Catholic doctrine and, using misinformation, claims that there are no legitimate Catholic clergy or authority criticizing the Pope.


My goodness!
The Orthodox Church will not fall, but I think the demons are using the Roman Catholic Church as target practice before trying to seize Christ's Bride and defile her.

I'm not concerned, but I think that once the Roman Catholic Church falls into total apostasy or collapses, we have a war we are gonna have to fight that's gonna get bloody. We'll win, because if God is for us, who can be against us?
But nonetheless, we gotta get prepared for a giant fight.

I worry if these same evil and malicious forces will cause like three of the Churches to fall into heresy.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 04:37:44 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Keep shining, star!

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #773 on: October 23, 2017, 04:32:34 PM »

I mean, who kisses an image of a person who is alive

I thought that was the bog standard Orthodox analogy for icons, "It's like kissing a picture of your wife and kids when you're away on a trip."

I should clarify "alive in body and spirit," not "alive in spirit alone." How would you like it if I had a statue of Kallistos Ware and I kissed his feet?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 04:38:27 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Keep shining, star!

Offline Volnutt

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #774 on: October 23, 2017, 04:39:18 PM »

I mean, who kisses an image of a person who is alive

I thought that was the bog standard Orthodox analogy for icons, "It's like kissing a picture of your wife and kids when you're away on a trip."

I should clarify "alive in body and spirit," not "alive in spirit alone."

That doesn't clarify anything. The point of the argument, as I've heard it, is that you kiss an icon to remind yourself of your devotion and love for the person, whether they're alive or not.
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #775 on: October 23, 2017, 05:00:41 PM »
What Vatican II did was open up to interpretation which was already mostly closed by the Magisterium. Now, Traditional Catholics, Novus Ordo conservatives and Novus Ordo liberals can basically interpret the Magisterial writings anyway they want to. That's why all of these blatant contradictions and disregard for traditional interpretation is happening, among other reasons, that the progressive left wants to see the Roman Church move closer to Protestantism and away from Orthodoxy.

The West went away from God, Christ, the Church etc. toward secularism a long time ago. It's only now becoming clear as the glass is falling from our eyes.

But, I think the West is in decline, if Rome falls, the West will fall shortly after. Rome represents the moral authority of the West, and the cultural history of the West, without it, the West has no direction, no guide and no telos. This is one of the major reason for all of the Islamophilia in the West, because they have nothing to defend, or nothing they want to defend. To them Islam is as legitimate as any other expression or cultural experience. Moral, philosophical, religious etc. indifferentism and relativism permeates the West, where in a culture like Islam it's completely foreign. The West's civilization, based on Christianity, has no chance. And the leftists who are advocating for Christianity's abdication are making a huge mistake, because their political philosophy itself owes much to the Christian culture, without which it will not stand on it's own.

Anyway, as long as we're ranting and speculating about the future, I thought I'd do the same.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #776 on: October 23, 2017, 05:41:52 PM »

I mean, who kisses an image of a person who is alive

I thought that was the bog standard Orthodox analogy for icons, "It's like kissing a picture of your wife and kids when you're away on a trip."

I should clarify "alive in body and spirit," not "alive in spirit alone."

That doesn't clarify anything. The point of the argument, as I've heard it, is that you kiss an icon to remind yourself of your devotion and love for the person, whether they're alive or not.

I think its inappropriate to make giant statues of alive people and kiss those statues, even out of respect for their memory.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:47:38 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Keep shining, star!

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #777 on: October 23, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »
What Vatican II did was open up to interpretation which was already mostly closed by the Magisterium. Now, Traditional Catholics, Novus Ordo conservatives and Novus Ordo liberals can basically interpret the Magisterial writings anyway they want to. That's why all of these blatant contradictions and disregard for traditional interpretation is happening, among other reasons, that the progressive left wants to see the Roman Church move closer to Protestantism and away from Orthodoxy.

The West went away from God, Christ, the Church etc. toward secularism a long time ago. It's only now becoming clear as the glass is falling from our eyes.

But, I think the West is in decline, if Rome falls, the West will fall shortly after. Rome represents the moral authority of the West, and the cultural history of the West, without it, the West has no direction, no guide and no telos. This is one of the major reason for all of the Islamophilia in the West, because they have nothing to defend, or nothing they want to defend. To them Islam is as legitimate as any other expression or cultural experience. Moral, philosophical, religious etc. indifferentism and relativism permeates the West, where in a culture like Islam it's completely foreign. The West's civilization, based on Christianity, has no chance. And the leftists who are advocating for Christianity's abdication are making a huge mistake, because their political philosophy itself owes much to the Christian culture, without which it will not stand on it's own.

Anyway, as long as we're ranting and speculating about the future, I thought I'd do the same.

Yeah yeah, I know - and I think Francis of Assisi's spirituality was already a contradiction right after the schism. However, I think the quantity of contradictions have hit such a degree that they are noticeable among cradle-Roman Catholics.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:45:12 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Keep shining, star!

Offline Volnutt

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #778 on: October 23, 2017, 10:43:49 PM »
What made it a contradiction?


I mean, who kisses an image of a person who is alive

I thought that was the bog standard Orthodox analogy for icons, "It's like kissing a picture of your wife and kids when you're away on a trip."

I should clarify "alive in body and spirit," not "alive in spirit alone."

That doesn't clarify anything. The point of the argument, as I've heard it, is that you kiss an icon to remind yourself of your devotion and love for the person, whether they're alive or not.

I think its inappropriate to make giant statues of alive people and kiss those statues, even out of respect for their memory.

I do too, but I feel like that cuts against the standard Orthodox apologetic for icons.
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Sharbel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #779 on: October 23, 2017, 11:07:38 PM »
However, I think the quantity of contradictions have hit such a degree that they are noticeable among cradle-Roman Catholics.
When the pope said things like: "[Grace] is not a sponge which wipes everything away." (Spe Salvi, PP BXVI) Then it was easy to look up to the Bishop of Rome.  But when the pope attributes a diatribe like "I boast only of my sins" to St. Paul, even staunch Catholics have to tackle with the fact that this has always been the par for the course of the bishopric of Rome.  Perhaps the last century or two most popes have been brilliant saints, so it's easy to think that it's always been thus, even to the point of overlooking PP PVI, but the digital age brought the typical pope in history to every screen instantly in the reign of PP FI.

Historically, almost all the popes in the first 5 centuries are canonized saints, about half of the popes in the 2nd half of the 1st millennium are saints, just one pope of the 1st half of the 2nd millennium is a saint, St. Leo IX, right before the Great Schism.  After the Great Schism, just 4 popes are saints, all from the last century or so (v. https://is.gd/jSxsAs).  Notice the trend? 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:12:24 PM by Sharbel »
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