Author Topic: On Francis.....  (Read 65914 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #270 on: December 14, 2013, 07:59:50 PM »
Don't bother. Isn't there someone in a top hat somewhere you should be beating up on?
top hat as opposed to the black turban?
as opposed to the Kommissar's cap.
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Offline mike

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #271 on: December 14, 2013, 09:48:32 PM »

This mentality is confusing...why does the ebb and flow of the Church depend on one guy?  "Everything will be ok if we get the right Pope in there..."

Really?

Because they've invested all that power in one guy.
That's a strawman . I bet a Coptic bishop if he wants to can be way more despotic in his diocese than the roman pope will ever be in any given RC diocese.

LOL.

Augustin, he does not get it.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #272 on: December 15, 2013, 01:58:57 AM »
Quote
In this exclusive interview, Pope Francis speaks about Christmas, hunger in the world, the suffering of children, the reform of the Roman Curia, women cardinals, the Institute for the Works of Religion (IOR), and the upcoming visit to the Holy Land
....
In response to the criticism he received after the publication of the “Evangelii Gaudium” from ultraconservatives in the US who accused him of being a “Marxist”, the Pope remarks: “Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.” But, he points out, “there is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church.”
....
Commenting on Curia reform, the Pope informs that in February his eight cardinal “advisors” will deliver their “first” concrete “suggestions”. Francis flatly denies allegations that he intends to nominate women cardinals, stating:  “I don’t know where any such an idea came from. Women in the Church must be valued not “clericalised”.”
If you will, you can become all flame.
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In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #273 on: December 16, 2013, 09:12:35 PM »
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 09:13:52 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #274 on: December 17, 2013, 05:04:22 PM »
Francis supports breast-feeding in public!

In other news, Francis is voted person of the year by a surprising publication. :o
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #275 on: December 18, 2013, 07:59:30 PM »
It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself, who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Altar Server

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #276 on: December 19, 2013, 12:16:54 AM »
It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself, who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.

I completely agree with that quote
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #277 on: December 19, 2013, 09:03:06 AM »
It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself, who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.
Joel Osteen et al should take note....heck, so should I.

PP
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 09:03:31 AM by primuspilus »
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #278 on: January 02, 2014, 07:55:47 PM »
Quote
(Reuters) - The Vatican felt compelled on Tuesday to deny that Pope Francis had "abolished sin", after a well-known Italian intellectual wrote that he had effectively done so through his words and gestures.

The singular exchange began on Sunday when Eugenio Scalfari, an atheist who writes opinion pieces for the left-leaning La Repubblica newspaper, published an article titled "Francis' Revolution: He has abolished sin".
....
Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told Vatican Radio that "this affirmation that the pope has abolished sin" was wrong.
....
Scalfari said he had not used a tape recorder or taken notes when he met the pope but reconstructed the long session from memory afterwards and made additions to help the flow of the article.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 07:56:11 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Altar Server

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #279 on: January 02, 2014, 09:06:56 PM »
Quote
(Reuters) - The Vatican felt compelled on Tuesday to deny that Pope Francis had "abolished sin", after a well-known Italian intellectual wrote that he had effectively done so through his words and gestures.

The singular exchange began on Sunday when Eugenio Scalfari, an atheist who writes opinion pieces for the left-leaning La Repubblica newspaper, published an article titled "Francis' Revolution: He has abolished sin".
....
Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told Vatican Radio that "this affirmation that the pope has abolished sin" was wrong.
....
Scalfari said he had not used a tape recorder or taken notes when he met the pope but reconstructed the long session from memory afterwards and made additions to help the flow of the article.

This is ridiculous, I don't see how anyone could possibly make this argument.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #280 on: January 03, 2014, 01:02:19 PM »
Priests, brothers, and sisters in Catholic religious orders around the globe should "wake up the world" by being "real witnesses" to a counter-cultural way of life that relies on generosity and self-forgetfulness, Pope Francis told a meeting of superiors general of religious orders in November.

Those religious, the pope also added, should also not be afraid of making mistakes or even committing sins.
....
"But in life it is difficult for everything to be clear, precise, outlined neatly," the pope continued. "Life is complicated; it consists of grace and sin."

"He who does not sin is not human," said the pope. "We all make mistakes and we need to recognize our weaknesses. A religious who recognizes himself as weak and a sinner does not negate the witness that he is called to give, rather he reinforces it, and this is good for everyone."
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #281 on: January 14, 2014, 09:48:00 PM »
]It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself,[/b] who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.
So why doesn't "My humility" lower himself when it comers to Traditionalists within the Church?

No, that's when the hammer-fist of authority comes down and it's all about "obedience".

I don't care how humble Francis needs to go out of his way to Moslems, Jews, Atheists, etc.

He needs to be consistent and extend that courtesy to all believers. Or it's all talk and show for the cameras/media.

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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #282 on: January 14, 2014, 10:45:05 PM »
]It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself,[/b] who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.
So why doesn't "My humility" lower himself when it comers to Traditionalists within the Church?

No, that's when the hammer-fist of authority comes down and it's all about "obedience".

I don't care how humble Francis needs to go out of his way to Moslems, Jews, Atheists, etc.

He needs to be consistent and extend that courtesy to all believers. Or it's all talk and show for the cameras/media.


And what has His Holiness done to traditionalists other than not be Pope Emeritus Benedict?  Has he repealed allowance of the 1962 Missal?  As far as I can see he has done nothing.  On the otherhand, I see the same disrespect "liberals" gave to Pope Emeritus Benedict, being given to Pope Francis by "conservatives".
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Offline Apotheoun

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #283 on: January 15, 2014, 12:42:31 AM »
"He who does not sin is not human," said the pope. "We all make mistakes and we need to recognize our weaknesses. A religious who recognizes himself as weak and a sinner does not negate the witness that he is called to give, rather he reinforces it, and this is good for everyone."
I get his point, but the portion of the Pope's statement in boldface print is Christologically unsound.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 12:49:02 AM by Apotheoun »
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Offline Wandile

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #284 on: January 15, 2014, 04:35:27 AM »
"He who does not sin is not human," said the pope. "We all make mistakes and we need to recognize our weaknesses. A religious who recognizes himself as weak and a sinner does not negate the witness that he is called to give, rather he reinforces it, and this is good for everyone."
I get his point, but the portion of the Pope's statement in boldface print is Christologically unsound.


I think he was speaking of the average human not Christ or The Mother of God. As you know in western theology these two were not stained with original sin but every other human is and as such, to not sin is to go against your fallen human nature which is impossible. Hence his words "He who does not sin is not human"
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 04:36:43 AM by Wandile »
During the Iconoclastic Crisis, Stephen the Faster challenged the assembled Bishops at Hiereia:

"How can you call a council ecumenical when the bishop of Rome has not given his consent, and the canons forbid ecclesiastical affairs to be decided without the pope of Rome?"
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Offline mike

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #285 on: January 15, 2014, 05:33:32 AM »
]It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself,[/b] who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.
So why doesn't "My humility" lower himself when it comers to Traditionalists within the Church?

No, that's when the hammer-fist of authority comes down and it's all about "obedience".

I don't care how humble Francis needs to go out of his way to Moslems, Jews, Atheists, etc.

He needs to be consistent and extend that courtesy to all believers. Or it's all talk and show for the cameras/media.


And what has His Holiness done to traditionalists other than not be Pope Emeritus Benedict?  Has he repealed allowance of the 1962 Missal?  As far as I can see he has done nothing.  On the otherhand, I see the same disrespect "liberals" gave to Pope Emeritus Benedict, being given to Pope Francis by "conservatives".

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #286 on: January 15, 2014, 08:39:47 AM »
This just in...Pope Francis is reportedly a Catholic.  The world is taken aback and in shock.

Offline Apotheoun

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #287 on: January 15, 2014, 09:58:11 AM »
"He who does not sin is not human," said the pope. "We all make mistakes and we need to recognize our weaknesses. A religious who recognizes himself as weak and a sinner does not negate the witness that he is called to give, rather he reinforces it, and this is good for everyone."
I get his point, but the portion of the Pope's statement in boldface print is Christologically unsound.


I think he was speaking of the average human not Christ or The Mother of God. As you know in western theology these two were not stained with original sin but every other human is and as such, to not sin is to go against your fallen human nature which is impossible. Hence his words "He who does not sin is not human"
As I said, I got what the Pope was trying to say, but you would think that someone who has been entrusted with the highest office in the Roman Church would be more theologically precise in his comments.

The statement, "He who does not sin is not human," is both Christologically and anthropologically inaccurate. Sinning does not make one human. Quite the contrary, sinning is the opposite of being truly human.
"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
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Offline Wandile

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #288 on: January 15, 2014, 01:15:51 PM »
"He who does not sin is not human," said the pope. "We all make mistakes and we need to recognize our weaknesses. A religious who recognizes himself as weak and a sinner does not negate the witness that he is called to give, rather he reinforces it, and this is good for everyone."
I get his point, but the portion of the Pope's statement in boldface print is Christologically unsound.


I think he was speaking of the average human not Christ or The Mother of God. As you know in western theology these two were not stained with original sin but every other human is and as such, to not sin is to go against your fallen human nature which is impossible. Hence his words "He who does not sin is not human"
As I said, I got what the Pope was trying to say, but you would think that someone who has been entrusted with the highest office in the Roman Church would be more theologically precise in his comments.

The statement, "He who does not sin is not human," is both Christologically and anthropologically inaccurate. Sinning does not make one human. Quite the contrary, sinning is the opposite of being truly human.

I really think you're making a big deal out of nothing but ok. His point is that we are all sinners.
he wasn't talking about Christ so it cannot concern Christology. Or else St.Paul would've have been christologically incorrect to say All men have sinned.
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Offline Apotheoun

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #289 on: January 15, 2014, 03:38:03 PM »
"He who does not sin is not human," said the pope. "We all make mistakes and we need to recognize our weaknesses. A religious who recognizes himself as weak and a sinner does not negate the witness that he is called to give, rather he reinforces it, and this is good for everyone."
I get his point, but the portion of the Pope's statement in boldface print is Christologically unsound.


I think he was speaking of the average human not Christ or The Mother of God. As you know in western theology these two were not stained with original sin but every other human is and as such, to not sin is to go against your fallen human nature which is impossible. Hence his words "He who does not sin is not human"
As I said, I got what the Pope was trying to say, but you would think that someone who has been entrusted with the highest office in the Roman Church would be more theologically precise in his comments.

The statement, "He who does not sin is not human," is both Christologically and anthropologically inaccurate. Sinning does not make one human. Quite the contrary, sinning is the opposite of being truly human.

I really think you're making a big deal out of nothing but ok. His point is that we are all sinners.
he wasn't talking about Christ so it cannot concern Christology. Or else St.Paul would've have been christologically incorrect to say All men have sinned.
Saying "he who does not sin is not human" is not the same as saying "all have sinned," the former statement is more or less the position held by Martin Luther during the Reformation, while the latter is a Biblical quotation that when taken in context does not imply Christ committed any sins. The Pope's poorly worded statement involves identifying sin with humanity, which is not a Catholic position. Nevertheless, as I already indicated, I think that Pope Francis is trying to say that everyone he is talking to commits sins, and that they should not let that fact prevent them from acting.

It is pretty clear from his many public comments and interviews that Pope Francis, in comparison to the two previous popes, is not of the same caliber when it comes to theology. That does not mean that he is not a nice person, or that he is not well intentioned when he says things in a vague or imprecise manner.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 03:38:58 PM by Apotheoun »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #290 on: January 15, 2014, 08:05:22 PM »
]It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself,[/b] who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.
So why doesn't "My humility" lower himself when it comers to Traditionalists within the Church?

No, that's when the hammer-fist of authority comes down and it's all about "obedience".

I don't care how humble Francis needs to go out of his way to Moslems, Jews, Atheists, etc.

He needs to be consistent and extend that courtesy to all believers. Or it's all talk and show for the cameras/media.


And what has His Holiness done to traditionalists other than not be Pope Emeritus Benedict?  Has he repealed allowance of the 1962 Missal?  As far as I can see he has done nothing.  On the otherhand, I see the same disrespect "liberals" gave to Pope Emeritus Benedict, being given to Pope Francis by "conservatives".

Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.
You beat me to it Michal but this is just the tip of the iceberg I believe in the pope's disdain for Traditionalism or "conservatives";


Pope Francis Crackdown On Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate For Latin Mass Alarms Traditionalists


VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis may have been named Time magazine's Person of the Year, but he has come under scathing criticism from a growing number of traditionalist Catholics for cracking down on a religious order that celebrates the old Latin Mass.

The matter concerns the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, a small but growing order that was founded in Italy in 1990 as an offshoot of the larger Franciscan order of the pope's namesake, St. Francis of Assisi.

The Vatican in July took the order over and last week imposed remarkable sanctions: closing its seminary, suspending ordinations and requiring priests to accept the post-Vatican II Mass.

The case has become a flashpoint in the ideological tug-of-war going on in the church over Francis' revolutionary agenda, which has thrilled progressives and alarmed conservatives.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/14/pope-francis-latin-mass_n_4445708.html
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #291 on: January 15, 2014, 08:16:22 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #292 on: January 15, 2014, 08:19:41 PM »
You beat me to it Michal but this is just the tip of the iceberg I believe in the pope's disdain for Traditionalism
Yes, the same Pope who told southern Italian bishops who wanted to suppress the the Extraordinary Form to forget about it. 
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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #293 on: January 15, 2014, 08:23:00 PM »
]It is an ugly thing when one sees a Christian who does not want to lower himself,[/b] who does not want to serve, a Christian who parades around everywhere. It’s terrible, no? That person isn’t a Christian: he is a pagan! The Christian serves (and) lowers himself,” said the Pope on Dec. 18 in St. Peter’s Square.
So why doesn't "My humility" lower himself when it comers to Traditionalists within the Church?

No, that's when the hammer-fist of authority comes down and it's all about "obedience".

I don't care how humble Francis needs to go out of his way to Moslems, Jews, Atheists, etc.

He needs to be consistent and extend that courtesy to all believers. Or it's all talk and show for the cameras/media.


And what has His Holiness done to traditionalists other than not be Pope Emeritus Benedict?  Has he repealed allowance of the 1962 Missal?  As far as I can see he has done nothing.  On the otherhand, I see the same disrespect "liberals" gave to Pope Emeritus Benedict, being given to Pope Francis by "conservatives".

Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.
You beat me to it Michal but this is just the tip of the iceberg I believe in the pope's disdain for Traditionalism or "conservatives";


Pope Francis Crackdown On Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate For Latin Mass Alarms Traditionalists


VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis may have been named Time magazine's Person of the Year, but he has come under scathing criticism from a growing number of traditionalist Catholics for cracking down on a religious order that celebrates the old Latin Mass.

The matter concerns the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, a small but growing order that was founded in Italy in 1990 as an offshoot of the larger Franciscan order of the pope's namesake, St. Francis of Assisi.

The Vatican in July took the order over and last week imposed remarkable sanctions: closing its seminary, suspending ordinations and requiring priests to accept the post-Vatican II Mass.

The case has become a flashpoint in the ideological tug-of-war going on in the church over Francis' revolutionary agenda, which has thrilled progressives and alarmed conservatives.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/14/pope-francis-latin-mass_n_4445708.html

Lord have mercy.

Maybe the Protestants who thought that Pope Francis would be the Anti-Christ were not so wrong after all.  ::)
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #294 on: January 15, 2014, 08:28:39 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
Maybe it's the N.O. that needs intervention.

Attend any clown Masses lately Deacon?

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #295 on: January 15, 2014, 08:30:41 PM »
You beat me to it Michal but this is just the tip of the iceberg I believe in the pope's disdain for Traditionalism
Yes, the same Pope who told southern Italian bishops who wanted to suppress the the Extraordinary Form to forget about it. 
Yet he isn't forcing them to accept it.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #296 on: January 15, 2014, 08:34:22 PM »
Quote
Maybe the Protestants who thought that Pope Francis would be the Anti-Christ were not so wrong after all.

I'm sure these are  of the same  flock that believe Jews/Israel are God's "chosen" people.

Complete wackos. ::)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #297 on: January 15, 2014, 08:41:14 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass.  
Maybe it's the N.O. that needs intervention.

Attend any clown Masses lately Deacon?



The N.O. Mass in Los Angeles could be quite revolutionary with dancing girls, red Racers wagons filled with teddy bears, and priests dressed as clowns. I am sure that retired Cardinal Mahony is quite pleased with Pope Francis.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 08:43:21 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Maria

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #298 on: January 15, 2014, 08:44:41 PM »
Quote
Maybe the Protestants who thought that Pope Francis would be the Anti-Christ were not so wrong after all.

I'm sure these are  of the same  flock that believe Jews/Israel are God's "chosen" people.  :o

Complete wackos. ::)

Yes, these people ...
http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=4724
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #299 on: January 15, 2014, 08:50:38 PM »
Quote
The N.O. Mass in Los Angeles could be quite revolutionary with dancing girls, red Racers wagons filled with teddy bears, and priests dressed as clowns.
These type have drove a generation out of the Church and have destroyed the Faith of millions.

Well done.

Quote
. I am sure that retired Cardinal Mahony is quite pleased with Pope Francis.
I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #300 on: January 15, 2014, 08:53:33 PM »
Quote
Maybe the Protestants who thought that Pope Francis would be the Anti-Christ were not so wrong after all.

I'm sure these are  of the same  flock that believe Jews/Israel are God's "chosen" people.  :o

Complete wackos. ::)

Yes, these people ...
http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=4724
I could care less at this point.


They're all nutz. :P
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #301 on: January 16, 2014, 02:51:11 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
A small group in the order requested intervention. I have never seen anything to prove the assertion that members of the order who are attached to the older form of the Roman Rite denied the validity of the newer form.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 02:51:25 PM by Apotheoun »
"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

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St. Theodore Studite

Offline Papist

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #302 on: January 16, 2014, 03:08:22 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
A small group in the order requested intervention. I have never seen anything to prove the assertion that members of the order who are attached to the older form of the Roman Rite denied the validity of the newer form.
It's unfortunate that His Holiness does not recognize that the real problem is the NO itself. Yes, it is a valid liturgy, and yes God is present there. BUT!, It does not glorify the Lord nor draw worshipers into the myster of God in the way that traditional liturgies do. The architects of the NO assumed that the Liturgy should be dumbed down, exposing their belief that people are stupid and lazy. This is an insult to the faithful. There never should have been an NO; instead, the TLM should merely have been translated into venacular, and the people should have been encouraged to chant all the responses. /rant
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #303 on: January 16, 2014, 03:23:42 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
A small group in the order requested intervention. I have never seen anything to prove the assertion that members of the order who are attached to the older form of the Roman Rite denied the validity of the newer form.

That sounds like an ungodly power struggle staged so that the Vatican could take over the order.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #304 on: January 16, 2014, 03:29:45 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass.  
A small group in the order requested intervention. I have never seen anything to prove the assertion that members of the order who are attached to the older form of the Roman Rite denied the validity of the newer form.
It's unfortunate that His Holiness does not recognize that the real problem is the NO itself. Yes, it is a valid liturgy, and yes God is present there. BUT!, It does not glorify the Lord nor draw worshipers into the myster of God in the way that traditional liturgies do. The architects of the NO assumed that the Liturgy should be dumbed down, exposing their belief that people are stupid and lazy. This is an insult to the faithful. There never should have been an NO; instead, the TLM should merely have been translated into venacular, and the people should have been encouraged to chant all the responses. /rant

The biggest problem with the NO I've seen. I was at one recently. The only one in a long time. The Priest literally spent more time talking about money during it than anything else, including the homily and rest of the rubrics. It lasted maybe 45 minutes and I swear he was asking what amounted to tourists for money for 20 minutes.

I nearly went Martin Luther on him afterward.

But he was already in the gaudy gift shop literally pulling people through the door.

You know I ain't one to pick on RCs. And I like to jab the GOC for their forever car raffles and festivals celebrating drunkness, gambling, and lewd behavior during fasts, canceling Vespers to throw Pappadeux's little Princess her most perfectest day ever, but thought I might share.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 03:29:59 PM by orthonorm »

Offline orthonorm

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #305 on: January 16, 2014, 03:34:24 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
A small group in the order requested intervention. I have never seen anything to prove the assertion that members of the order who are attached to the older form of the Roman Rite denied the validity of the newer form.
It's unfortunate that His Holiness does not recognize that the real problem is the NO itself. Yes, it is a valid liturgy, and yes God is present there. BUT!, It does not glorify the Lord nor draw worshipers into the myster of God in the way that traditional liturgies do. The architects of the NO assumed that the Liturgy should be dumbed down, exposing their belief that people are stupid and lazy. This is an insult to the faithful. There never should have been an NO; instead, the TLM should merely have been translated into venacular, and the people should have been encouraged to chant all the responses. /rant

And you are right. I don't know if the Pope does or does not recognize that. I know nothing about his stance of liturgical reform.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #306 on: January 16, 2014, 03:57:30 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
Maybe it's the N.O. that needs intervention.

Attend any clown Masses lately Deacon?



Good Lord !

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #307 on: January 16, 2014, 04:03:30 PM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #308 on: January 16, 2014, 04:39:41 PM »
Well, he's selling his Harley.

http://news.yahoo.com/not-average-popemobile-pope-sells-harley-davidson-150606476.html

Here is where the execution of a decent idea goes all wrong:

Quote
With an estimated worth of around 12,000-15,000 euros ($16,400-$20,500), the motorcycle was signed on the tank by His Holiness at a special ceremony at the Vatican in November. A Harley Davidson leather jacket also signed by the pope will be sold immediately after the motorcycle.

Emphasis mine.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #309 on: January 16, 2014, 04:40:36 PM »
Well, he's selling his Harley.
And firing Vatican Bankers:

Quote
ROME — Pope Francis on Wednesday (Jan. 15) took his biggest step yet at cleaning house at the scandal-ridden Vatican Bank, replacing most of the institution’s advisers with fresh faces.

Among the new appointees: Vatican Secretary of State and Cardinal-designate Pietro Parolin; Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn from Vienna; Cardinal Thomas Collins of Toronto; and veteran diplomat Cardinal Santos Abril y Castello, a close friend of the pontiff’s.
....
Officially known as the Institute for Religious Works, the Vatican Bank plays an essential role in helping facilitate the Vatican’s role in confronting poverty worldwide. But it has also been connected with widespread corruption and money laundering.

This Pope is cleaning house.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #310 on: January 16, 2014, 04:42:27 PM »
Well, he's selling his Harley.
And firing Vatican Bankers:

Quote
ROME — Pope Francis on Wednesday (Jan. 15) took his biggest step yet at cleaning house at the scandal-ridden Vatican Bank, replacing most of the institution’s advisers with fresh faces.

Among the new appointees: Vatican Secretary of State and Cardinal-designate Pietro Parolin; Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn from Vienna; Cardinal Thomas Collins of Toronto; and veteran diplomat Cardinal Santos Abril y Castello, a close friend of the pontiff’s.
....
Officially known as the Institute for Religious Works, the Vatican Bank plays an essential role in helping facilitate the Vatican’s role in confronting poverty worldwide. But it has also been connected with widespread corruption and money laundering.

This Pope is cleaning house.

Now there he couldn't fire too many bankers. More pomp and circumstance, the better.

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #311 on: January 16, 2014, 04:45:25 PM »
....
Now there he couldn't fire too many bankers. More pomp and circumstance, the better.
I don't think this Pope actually likes pomp and circumstance.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #312 on: January 16, 2014, 06:35:26 PM »
Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. Google them.

Don't need to.  I am aware of the situation.  Are you?  This is a troubled order that requested intervention.  Members were denying the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. 
A small group in the order requested intervention. I have never seen anything to prove the assertion that members of the order who are attached to the older form of the Roman Rite denied the validity of the newer form.

If over half the order is small...

"On September 19, 2013, authorization was obtained from the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life to publish the results of a questionnaire sent by the Apostolic Visitor to all the friars in perpetual vows.  Slightly less than two-fifths said that the Minister General was governing well;  61 percent said that there were significant problems.  Of the latter group, almost three quarters thought that the problems could not be resolved by an Ordinary General Chapter but required either an Extraordinary General Chapter or a Vatican-appointed Commissioner.  The response to the question about the Minister General’s decisions in liturgical matters was similar:  almost two to one, the friars admitted that there were problems, and about half of the respondents said that extraordinary measures were needed to resolve them (77 percent of 64 percent = 49.3 percent)."

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/2788/hype_and_hope_for_the_ffi.aspx#.UrN5UfRDvT8
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Offline Apotheoun

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #313 on: January 17, 2014, 02:58:19 AM »
Let's hope the "apostolic visitor" is not exaggerating the results in order to suppress the unpopular older rite.
"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
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Offline Apotheoun

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Re: On Francis.....
« Reply #314 on: January 17, 2014, 03:00:17 AM »
Deacon Lance, when is the Vatican going to send an apostolic visitor to clean up the liturgical anarchy at Our Lady of Aparecida? Never, because they celebrate the newer rite.
"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."
St. Theodore Studite