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Author Topic: This was intended for forums.catholic.com  (Read 412 times) Average Rating: 0
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mikeforjesus
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« on: November 18, 2014, 10:20:50 AM »

I did not post it because I know they have a fear of others converting to protestant. Not that this is not mainly supporting orthodoxy. One protestant thought is included at the end
I still want an answer from catholics if God could send one to answer for me on this forum

Title was to be:
No one sees love in force

In fact it is a stumbling block to non christians to see christians divided

As you might know I am orthodox christian. I believe in my church but I could be wrong I do not believe I should convert unless I saw catholicism was true. I do not have all the time on my hands to research for God commanded me to work following adam's curse as my father says. For me to convert would make me one who causes division. So it makes sense orthodox would say anathema on me likewise it makes sense when you say anathema to those who convert from catholicsm when they have not found the truth .But even as we believe we are right I do not believe Jesus came to condemn the world but to save everyone who wants to be saved. One issue then is what about non christians who want to be saved and keep God's commandments but don't become christians because they don't want to feel uncaring to their family?

The goal of Jesus Christ is to bring repentance to the whole world. But not all will repent but those who do will go to heaven. Perhaps even non christians who follow God's commandments will be saved in the age to come


Mark 8:35-38 (NKJV)
35 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. 36 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? 37 Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

For His sake He wants you to help people please Him by repenting, what better way than to perhaps promote christian unity?

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers,For they shall be called sons of God.

if you see 2 people arguing who is right and who is wrong but they both truly believe they are right or the one who is wrong has a good purpose for remaining as he is will you condemn the wrong. Could Jesus mean those who believe in christian unity are the peacemakers ?
while we include those people as christians who pretend not to be christians for the sake of not seeming uncaring?  Can we be right without judging those who are wrong? can we believe the body and blood saves us yet believe in the power of prayer for the dead to protestants and even secret christians who do not want to seem uncaring by converting but live righteous lives?

Matthew 5:13-16
13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Can we really be salt if we force others to convert? do we really care much about having an influence on the world if we care for divisions?

John 6:55-57(NKJV)

55 For My flesh is food indeed,[a] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

Why does Jesus compare eating His body to Him living from the Father did He eat the Father's flesh ? Indeed the word of God is not flesh to be eaten.  But John says the Word became flesh. Does that mean then if we eat the word we are eating His flesh? it is confusing perhaps that is why the disciples said this is a hard saying who can understand it? But Jesus said the words I speak to you are Spirit and they are life but those who truly believe in Jesus should not turn away.
 perhaps that is why Peter said you have the words of eternal life. But Jesus made it clear at the passover that He who eats the bread and drinks the wine are eating His body and blood


Our own popes have signed agreements that they believe our witness is compromised by divisions. Why do we go against our conscience? isn't our conscience ever satisfied?

I guess the difference between purgatory and prayer for the dead is that catholics believe only christians can be saved from hell but eastern orthodox believe even non christians can be saved if they were righteous
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 10:24:15 AM by mikeforjesus » Logged
mikeforjesus
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2014, 10:28:14 AM »

too busy with work the greatest destroyer of people's souls?
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mikeforjesus
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 12:06:23 AM »

It is necessary to convert if you have found the truth even if it offends family Catholics and Protestants can be saved if they believe in their interpretation of scripture and repent
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2014, 01:28:14 AM »

too busy with work the greatest destroyer of people's souls?


I am not catholic, so I guess I should not respond. But, Why do you call work the "greatest destroyer of people's souls" when slothfulness is a sin, and industry/diligence is a virtue? Or perhaps I misunderstand
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mikeforjesus
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2014, 01:42:07 AM »

Because some may think you should only work when you have your life sorted out and found the truth and you have to be able to be salt to all humanity not just orthodox so it is important to understand all religious view points work is a virtue but some bring forth more fruit in religious work and vocation but probably I don't have the gift to be a preacher or priest a priest is forbidden from doing worldly work I think I have the talent to help the poor physically I may be able to preach the truth but I don't know how to keep a flock which is obtained by not always being judgemental or selfish and showing also the goodness of God and having a sense of humor and just attracting people to God
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 01:49:45 AM by mikeforjesus » Logged
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Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 01:44:45 AM »

Mike, you're overthinking things again. Log off, settle down, and do something where you don't need to think. Go for a walk or something.
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mikeforjesus
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 01:52:27 AM »

Gunnar asked me a question
I am going to watch a TV show
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 02:13:34 AM by mikeforjesus » Logged
mikeforjesus
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2014, 07:20:14 AM »

how come things are unfair a non christian can not go to university or to work peacefully anymore if he publicly declares his faith in Jesus which some think is necessary to go to heaven because his parents will support him no more or they might persecute him. Can he be considered a christian for wanting to be one and keeping the commandments of God which even his parents should not object to unless they are evil and it is clear they don't love their children by caring to lead them to God? Billy Graham said the below which seems heresy but he might have meant what I meant. He may have thought muslims worship the same God we do I think we probably do not but I mean those who believe in Christ but do not publicly confess him to not seem uncaring not those who have not come to faith. I might preach that they will be saved through the prayers of the dead with assurance who were believers secretly but only that God might save also those who are not sure if Jesus is LORD because people don't give them the chance to read the bible but they follow the good parts of their religion so they are in line with their conscience and Jesus commandments. However the greatest reward is given to those who join where they believe the truth is they shall receive a hundred fold on this earth eternal life and perhaps a better reward in heaven like having authority over ten cities either it is temporal rewards or it causes no envy

Billy Graham is a bit confusing when he said the below two quotes

"I used to play God, but I can’t do that anymore. I used to believe that pagans in far-off countries were lost--were going to hell--if they did not have the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. I believe that there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God--through nature, for instance--and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying “yes” to God. ( James Michael Beam, "I Can’t Play God Anymore,"McCall’s (January 1978): 158, as cited in a pdf by Kurt A. Edwards in a Dissertation for Doctor of Philosophy at the Bowling Green State University: http://etd.ohiolink.edu/send-pdf.cgi/Edwards/20Kurt/20Alexander.pdf?bgsu1212785421 on pages 65-66.

He said that in 1978

I never believed not preaching the gospel to people can lead people to go to hell but I do now think it might because it is our responsibility

Recently but not too recently he said the below but it seems he has repented of his error in his project my hope billy graham

"I think everybody that that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the body of Christ. And that's what God is doing today.  He's calling people for 'eh, out of the the world for his name whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world uh they are members of the body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but uh they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have and they turn to the only light that they have. And I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven."


« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 07:44:05 AM by mikeforjesus » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2014, 11:27:17 AM »

The idea because the word became flesh that when we eat his words we eat his flesh is illogical we need to actually eat his flesh hence Jesus instituted the sacrament on Passover saying take eat this is My body if His words were His body He would not need to say that we can remember Him without needing to eat some bread and wine
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 11:28:32 AM by mikeforjesus » Logged
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