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Author Topic: Looping Petitions  (Read 729 times) Average Rating: 0
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ilyazhito
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« on: September 21, 2013, 02:36:58 PM »

I'm not sure if this is the proper term, but what is it called when instead of a call-response between the deacon/priest and choir/people the deacon chants his lines and the people repeat Lord Have Mercy or God is the Lord over and over again. How does the deacon manage to stay focused and chant his lines audibly? Is it a skill that deacons are taught by older deacons, or is it something learned by trial and error?
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2013, 02:44:05 PM »

There's actually a technical term for this practice (it escapes me), but I'm tempted to call it "tuning out other people" and affirm that Orthodox are so good at it that you'd think we were born with it.  Tongue
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2013, 08:03:22 PM »

I've forgotten the technical term as well, but it is not that difficult a skill to learn. Priests, deacons and church singers/chanters all master it sooner or later. In a church with good acoustics, it can be quite impressive, a "wall of sound" effect, where, surprisingly, the clarity of both choir and priest/deacon is maintained.
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2013, 04:18:04 AM »

any videos of this??

sounds very interesting
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ilyazhito
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2013, 08:47:19 AM »

There are a lot of clips on that, for instance on deacon.ru, but I cannot remember any specific ones. Looping especially happens after Soloviev's Only-Begotten Son, and on God Is the Lord before The Noble Joseph. The Don Cossacks Choir recording is good, but there is unfortunately no deacon to demonstrate the petitions on the recording. This is a question especially for the deacons out there, but anyone else with any knowledge may answer.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 08:48:19 AM by ilyazhito » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2013, 07:06:19 PM »

There are a lot of clips on that, for instance on deacon.ru, but I cannot remember any specific ones. Looping especially happens after Soloviev's Only-Begotten Son, and on God Is the Lord before The Noble Joseph. The Don Cossacks Choir recording is good, but there is unfortunately no deacon to demonstrate the petitions on the recording. This is a question especially for the deacons out there, but anyone else with any knowledge may answer.

The "looping petition" style is used routinely by both Greek and Slavic churches, including parishes, during the longer litanies in the DL, and often also in Vespers and Matins. Another example of its use is in the Greek DL, where the choir chants the polychronion (Ton evloghounta kai aghiazonta) at the same time as the priest chants the dismissal.
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ilyazhito
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2013, 05:35:48 PM »

What is the polychronion that the Greeks chant? The Russian one is simply a commemoration of the bishops in descending order. For instance, this was the polychronion that ROCOR used before reunification: The Orthodox Episcopate of the Russian Church/ And the Very-Most- Reverend Laurus/ Metropolitan of Eastern America and New York/ First Hierarch of the Russian Church Abroad/[here is a commemoration of the diocesan hierarch]/The Russian people in the homeland and the diaspora/ This country and them that in faith and piety dwell herein./The rector and brethren of this holy temple and all Orthodox Christians/May God preserve for many years! The Polychronion is sung by the choir after the dismissal, not simultaneously in the Russian tradition. Are there instances other than the litanies and God is the Lord that deacon and choir chant their lines simultaneously (the entrance sequence of a hierarchical liturgy doesn't count, because deacon and choir are doing their own thing).
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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2013, 07:00:02 PM »

What is the polychronion that the Greeks chant?

This one:

Τον Ευλογούντα και Αγιάζοντα ημάς, Κύριε, φύλαττε εις πολλά έτη.
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ilyazhito
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 01:34:01 PM »

Do they chant that only when a bishop is present, or at all times? The Russians will chant the polychronion at the end of vigil and the liturgy at all times. Anyhow, what would be the proper technique? Would the deacon or reader/canonarch just ignore the choir and read his lines at a measured interval?
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »

Is this what you are referring to?

Go to 1:19 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBPxgzehE8Y
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ilyazhito
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2013, 04:17:09 PM »

Yes. That is exactly what I mean.
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2013, 11:22:01 PM »

Do they chant that only when a bishop is present, or at all times? The Russians will chant the polychronion at the end of vigil and the liturgy at all times. Anyhow, what would be the proper technique? Would the deacon or reader/canonarch just ignore the choir and read his lines at a measured interval?

At all times, not just when a bishop is present. The priest chants the dismissal, while the choir chants the polychronion simultaneously.
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 04:51:40 PM »

Is this what you are referring to?

Go to 1:19 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBPxgzehE8Y


That was absolutely amazing.
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