Author Topic: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"  (Read 2296 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Since today seems to be "Talk About Pope Francis" day, I thought I'd post a link to this Zenit article in which Pope Francis offers some rather Orthodox advice to newly appointed bishops.  For those in jurisdictions where bishops will routinely leave their home dioceses in the old country to visit diaspora dioceses every year for months on end under the guise of pastoral concern (read: $$$), some of this will hit home.  

The more we learn about his views, the more Pope Francis seems, to me, hard to peg.  All we ever get is random soundbites, but if you put them all together, I really do think there's a lot to like: he's a more complex figure than everyone in his Church seems to give him credit for.  
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 02:31:35 PM by Mor Ephrem »
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013, 02:39:08 PM »
In my unread threads page, there are more topics about Pope Francis than there are about Orthodoxy.  Of course, silliness trumps both of them.

New name of this site: www.popefrancischristianity.net
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013, 02:41:17 PM »
Oh, for the good old days, when we waxed long and eloquently on homosexuality, Chalcedon, and firearms. 
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline mike

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2013, 02:42:25 PM »
In my unread threads page, there are more topics about Pope Francis than there are about Orthodoxy.  Of course, silliness trumps both of them.

New name of this site: www.popefrancischristianity.net

Can't really understand why do the Orthodox get so excited about what some other religion cleric is saying. Seriously.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2013, 02:42:56 PM »
Oh, for the good old days, when we waxed long and eloquently on homosexuality, Chalcedon, and firearms. 
Now it is just Syria and Pope Francis.  Who is up for another round of homosexuality?  ;D
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2013, 03:04:50 PM »
The more we learn about his views, the more Pope Francis seems, to me, hard to peg.  All we ever get is random soundbites, but if you put them all together, I really do think there's a lot to like: he's a more complex figure than everyone in his Church seems to give him credit for. 

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Offline Schultz

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2013, 03:18:48 PM »
In my unread threads page, there are more topics about Pope Francis than there are about Orthodoxy.  Of course, silliness trumps both of them.

New name of this site: www.popefrancischristianity.net

Can't really understand why do the Orthodox get so excited about what some other religion cleric is saying. Seriously.

Depends what he's saying.  If it's worth listening to, everyone should be listening to it.  If it's not, then don't pay it any attention.  Just because in this case it's the Roman Catholic Pope saying something doesn't mean that it's de facto not worth listening to.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2013, 03:22:18 PM »
In my unread threads page, there are more topics about Pope Francis than there are about Orthodoxy.  Of course, silliness trumps both of them.

New name of this site: www.popefrancischristianity.net

Can't really understand why do the Orthodox get so excited about what some other religion cleric is saying. Seriously.
You know what? You are absolutely right. Catholics and Orthodox Christians have no shared history or patrimony.  ::)
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2013, 03:24:38 PM »
I agree with Schultz, although I do find it odd how many topics we have on Pope Francis today. Has nobody in the Orthodox world said anything worth thinking about or discussing recently?

Offline J Michael

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2013, 03:52:31 PM »
I agree with Schultz, although I do find it odd how many topics we have on Pope Francis today. Has nobody in the Orthodox world said anything worth thinking about or discussing recently?

Someone probably has, but given the sheer size of the Catholic Church and the huge amount of publicity it gets, what might emerge from the world of Orthodoxy probably gets drowned out, unfortunately. 
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Offline Apotheoun

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2013, 04:25:39 PM »
The more Pope Francis says (e.g., in off-the-cuff interviews on planes, or in letters to a newspaper editor, or in quasi-official interviews with magazines) the less interested I am in listening to him.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2013, 04:34:44 PM »
The more Pope Francis says (e.g., in off-the-cuff interviews on planes, or in letters to a newspaper editor, or in quasi-official interviews with magazines) the less interested I am in listening to him.

I'm afraid I have to agree.  If/when I get time and can gather enough concentration, I'll try reading the interview in America Magazine.  Maybe that'll help.  Or...maybe not. :-\
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2013, 04:36:47 PM »
Well, that took quicker to derail than I thought. 
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline J Michael

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2013, 04:38:45 PM »
Well, that took quicker to derail than I thought. 

Hey, at least there was no vitriol.  Look on the bright side! ;D
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Offline Apotheoun

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2013, 04:40:23 PM »
Well, that took quicker to derail than I thought. 
My apologies for contributing to the derailing of your thread, but I admit that I just got done reading Pope Francis' interview in America Magazine, and I was not impressed by what he had to say there. The Zenit article is fine, but not anything to write home about, because warning against "careerism" is hardly earth shattering.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 04:44:31 PM by Apotheoun »
"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
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St. Theodore Studite

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2013, 04:42:25 PM »
I agree with Schultz, although I do find it odd how many topics we have on Pope Francis today.

He's in the news today for an interview he granted to a Jesuit publication.  It's no more odd than the amount of threads we have where we bash the Ecumenical Patriarch, praise or decry Holy Tsar Putin, show photos of Orthodox churches and events in certain Eastern European nations, funky icons, or talk about the Anglican-homosexual cabal militantly imposing altar girls on the pious and Orthodox Christians, the meek flock of Christ.  

Quote
Has nobody in the Orthodox world said anything worth thinking about or discussing recently?

LOL, is there suddenly a shortage of Orthodox topics on OCNet?  :P

I agree with Schultz.  
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2013, 04:48:01 PM »
Well, that took quicker to derail than I thought.  
My apologies for contributing to the derailing of your thread, but I admit that I just got done reading Pope Francis' interview in American Magazine, and I was not impressed by what he had to say there. The Zenit article is fine, but not anything to write home about, because warning against "careerism" is hardly earth shattering.

Oh, my comment was more tongue-in-cheek, but I forgot the smiley. 

I haven't read the America interview yet, so I can't comment.  Re: the Zenit article, my OP singled out one possible point of departure that didn't necessarily have to do with careerism, and that was the necessity of the bishop to stay with his flock. 

At least in OO circles, there has been a lot of talk recently about whether transferring bishops between sees is canonical, and we have many bishops who do extensive and lengthy traveling away from their dioceses for various reasons (read: $$$), whether or not they have synodal approval to do such traveling or the permission of the "host" hierarch.  I don't know how good EO bishops are currently with regard to such disciplinary matters, but I don't think it's unheard of for bishops to sometimes be "aloof" from their sheep.  ISTM that Pope Francis highlighted something that I don't think we hear enough from our own bishops, maybe because they're complicit in such things.

Anyway, back to the fun!  :P   
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline Apotheoun

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2013, 05:03:02 PM »
Well, that took quicker to derail than I thought.  
My apologies for contributing to the derailing of your thread, but I admit that I just got done reading Pope Francis' interview in American Magazine, and I was not impressed by what he had to say there. The Zenit article is fine, but not anything to write home about, because warning against "careerism" is hardly earth shattering.

Oh, my comment was more tongue-in-cheek, but I forgot the smiley. 

I haven't read the America interview yet, so I can't comment.  Re: the Zenit article, my OP singled out one possible point of departure that didn't necessarily have to do with careerism, and that was the necessity of the bishop to stay with his flock. 

At least in OO circles, there has been a lot of talk recently about whether transferring bishops between sees is canonical, and we have many bishops who do extensive and lengthy traveling away from their dioceses for various reasons (read: $$$), whether or not they have synodal approval to do such traveling or the permission of the "host" hierarch.  I don't know how good EO bishops are currently with regard to such disciplinary matters, but I don't think it's unheard of for bishops to sometimes be "aloof" from their sheep.  ISTM that Pope Francis highlighted something that I don't think we hear enough from our own bishops, maybe because they're complicit in such things.

Anyway, back to the fun!  :P   
I don't think Pope Francis is saying that bishops can't be moved around from diocese to diocese; instead, I think he is telling them not to seek to be moved - especially if the reason is based on prestige. It is common practice in the Roman Catholic Church to move bishops around. The diocese I live in has had three bishops in just the last decade. The two previous bishops are now bishops in different cities.
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Zenit.org: Pope Francis: "Avoid The Scandal of Being Airport Bishops"
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 01:01:32 AM »
Avoid the scandal of being disappearing golden watch bishops
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