Topic: Catholicism to Orthodoxy

[podkarpatska]

No offense, I hope, but for all the times I've heard the phrase "Roman Catholics with an Eastern Mass" thrown around, I don't believe I've heard anyone explain what it is suppose to mean.

Presumably it means that the sayer finds Eastern Catholics to have all the same heterodox beliefs of Roman Catholics, but have an Eastern style service instead of the Roman Mass. I often feel this way about Eastern Catholics I've talked with, prime examples being mardukm on CAF. Their mindset, theology, often even their language, is Roman, but their Liturgy is of St. John Chrysostom.

Mardukum' s zealotry as a papist apologist is probably unparalleled even in the Roman world. Most EC' s in my experience are far more ambivalent about RCC doctrine than the stereotypes might imply. What Rome thinks they believe and what they actually believe are at odds. That being said, their status is peculiar to say the least. My ancestors were under the Unia for three centuries through no fault of their own. But imperfect as that union was, they managed to preserve enough of the truth, the light that burns in the Orthodox, to facilitate the return to its fullness of tens of thousands in the early to mid 20th century forming the core of what is now the OCA and ACROD.

[Kerdy]

I was raised Catholic and I'm trying to convert to Orthodox now.  The few things that never made sense to me in Catholicism are conveniently enough not part of Orthodox doctrine.  The only thing I'm having a hard time letting go of is the notion of purgatory.

Hmm, that was one of the easier things for me. I read a Catholic Apologetics article that stated plainly "there is no biblical basis for purgatory" before proceeding to quote the Bible for 40 verses.

Odd, over the last couple of days I have listened to two different, well respected, Catholic apologists which say the opposite.  In fact, both started off with the biblical support for Purgatory and went into great detail defending it.  One even made reference to Orthodox objection to Purgatory but didnt delve too far into that aspect.  Scott Hahn and Mark Shea.

I know. Catholic Apologists have all sorts of views on this. The one that was the subject of the council of Florence was 1 Corinthians 3. (sic) Some use Christ's parable about sparrows and pennies too. At the same time there are Apologists who deny that it is biblical and only believe it because it is Papal doctrine.

And the Pope is the sole successor to St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ upon whom the Church is built... yada yada yada.

There was a video in which Fr. Mitchell Pacwa said Purgatory relies on Vicarious Atonement, which Orthodox reject. I think I posted it elsewhere, I can't find it now.

I'm sure there are people with varying opinions, just as there is in Orthodoxy, but the bottom line is always "What does the Church itself teach?"  I'm finding much of what both the Orthodox and Catholic teaches is not what many people claim, and that's a good thing.

Here is the video of Mitchell Pacwa if you're interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YxWzxnk1KY

He is right, the word "purgatory" isn't in the bible.

[Rdunbar123]

I converted to Orthodoxy from RC a while back. I was unable to fully connect with the contemporary RC Church due to a variety of issues, papal infallibility, and the idea that divorced people are for all time denied Holy Eucharist by RC priests . I used to believe the latter was NOT really  true, but I was refused Holy Communion on the Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage by a Trad RC priest, who was saying a Mass for my deceased brother in law. What made it more bizarre was that we were the only two mortal participants in the Chapel. I will never forget the judgemental and unloving talk I got after confession, and the proud pious shake of his head to reiterate my excommunication as he took Communion himself. I was as an Irish Roman Catholic devastated. However it did make me resolve to clarify the matter on my return. A number of RC priests said to just take Communion anyway " you won't be challenged" , but this struck me as being dishonest.

Not to take this thread in another direction, but I have questions about this as well.  I'm not divorced but my husband and I separated in 1991 and I haven't seen him since.  I don't even know if he's still alive.  Because of this, when I started going back to an RC parish, I did not take communion.  I stayed in the pew after lettings others out.  Now that I'm attending Orthodox services, I'm also not taking communion.  This isn't the only reason, but again, I stay in the pew.  I have no idea what my marital status is with regard to either of these churches.  Technically, I never 'committed' divorce, but you can't argue I'm still married either, except on paper somewhere.  I'm seeing legal aid--I've been walking around with a stranger's last name for 22 years.  I want my name back, and if they can get a divorce through, I'm going to take it.  Not being able to take communion is something I'll have to accept if that's the case, but they wouldn't tell me I can't attend liturgy, could they?

Legally, your "husband" can be declared dead.  Also, you can have a name changed legally.  Taking communion, OTOH, is between you and a priest.  Have you talked to him about this situation?

Former RC, converted due to studying Church history in trying to defend RC dogmas,but in reference to Communion , divorce does not keep you from RC communion, remarriage does.

[hecma925]

I converted to Orthodoxy from RC a while back. I was unable to fully connect with the contemporary RC Church due to a variety of issues, papal infallibility, and the idea that divorced people are for all time denied Holy Eucharist by RC priests . I used to believe the latter was NOT really  true, but I was refused Holy Communion on the Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage by a Trad RC priest, who was saying a Mass for my deceased brother in law. What made it more bizarre was that we were the only two mortal participants in the Chapel. I will never forget the judgemental and unloving talk I got after confession, and the proud pious shake of his head to reiterate my excommunication as he took Communion himself. I was as an Irish Roman Catholic devastated. However it did make me resolve to clarify the matter on my return. A number of RC priests said to just take Communion anyway " you won't be challenged" , but this struck me as being dishonest.

Not to take this thread in another direction, but I have questions about this as well.  I'm not divorced but my husband and I separated in 1991 and I haven't seen him since.  I don't even know if he's still alive.  Because of this, when I started going back to an RC parish, I did not take communion.  I stayed in the pew after lettings others out.  Now that I'm attending Orthodox services, I'm also not taking communion.  This isn't the only reason, but again, I stay in the pew.  I have no idea what my marital status is with regard to either of these churches.  Technically, I never 'committed' divorce, but you can't argue I'm still married either, except on paper somewhere.  I'm seeing legal aid--I've been walking around with a stranger's last name for 22 years.  I want my name back, and if they can get a divorce through, I'm going to take it.  Not being able to take communion is something I'll have to accept if that's the case, but they wouldn't tell me I can't attend liturgy, could they?

Legally, your "husband" can be declared dead.  Also, you can have a name changed legally.  Taking communion, OTOH, is between you and a priest.  Have you talked to him about this situation?

Former RC, converted due to studying Church history in trying to defend RC dogmas,but in reference to Communion , divorce does not keep you from RC communion, remarriage does.

Remarriage without a blessing, yes.  There is oikonomia.

[Sam G]

Personally (and in reference to the original question) I found that letting go of the legalistic way of thinking that most Traditionalist Catholics seem to fall into was what did it for me.  In Orthodoxy there is no Aquinas, whose theology can be seen as the point of departure from the patristic tradition in the west, so things aren't nearly as rationalized in Orthodoxy.  If you really dug into Roman Catholic theology (which as a Traditionalist I'm going to assume you did) the best thing I can think of is to either A) read the Church fathers (minus Augustine) or B) go for a quick primer on Orthodox theology to get the gist so you can compare it to RC theology, the best of which I can think of is appropriately titled Orthodox Dogmatic Theology