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Author Topic: Why is sexual passion (lust) so strong?  (Read 954 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 10, 2013, 10:22:07 AM »

Lust for women is a heavy cross I bear, when I'm in idle thoughts the lust comes out in full force.

I haven't had enough rapport with my new priest to tell him this, but when I'm at work there are hours of my day where I do nothing but sort of daydream .

What has helped me outside of work is to focus on my numerous activities that preoccupies me.

There is this girl I want to date but I feel it is nothing more than lust.

Am I wrong to think sexual sins are the most passionate?
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 10:55:58 AM »

Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 12:08:02 PM »

St. Neilos the Ascetic says:
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Sexual desire is even more closely related to gluttony than are the passions of anger and dejection mentioned above. Nature herself has indicated the intimate connection between the two by placing the organs of sexual intercourse immediately below the belly. If lust is weak, it is because the belly has been made to go in want; while if lust is easily excited, it is from the belly that it derives its strength.

As well as nursing and feeding these passions, gluttony also destroys everything good. Once it gains the upper hand, it drives out self-control, moderation, courage, fortitude and all the other virtues.  

Ascetic Discourses, Philokalia, Volume 1

St. John Cassian speaks of three kinds of gluttony: 1) eating in excess, 2) eating outside of the times designated for meals, and 3) going after rich and tasty foods.  Who among us struggles against these forms of gluttony?  For this reason, so many of us struggle greatly with lust (or rather we do not struggle, and so are easily overcome).

But, St. John Cassian also says that fasting alone will not take care of this passion:
Quote
Bodily fasting alone is not enough to bring about perfect self-restraint and true purity; it must be accompanied by contrition of heart, intense prayer to God, frequent meditation on the Scriptures, toil and manual labor. These are able to check the restless impulses of the soul and to recall it from its shameful fantasies. Humility of soul helps more than everything else, however, and without it no one can overcome unchastity or any other sin. In the first place, then, we must take the utmost care to guard the heart from base thoughts, for, according to the Lord, 'out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, unchastity' and so on (Matt.15:19).

On the Eight Vices, Philokalia, Volume 1
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 12:21:32 PM »

Don't date her.

What's the big deal? You don't have to talk to every person you think about. If you know you have less than good intentions, you can stop yourself.
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 01:10:43 PM »

Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 

+1
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 01:19:12 PM »

Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 

+1
Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 

+1
Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 

+1
I mean no disrespect but I can see the link between gluttony and lust as a metsphor. But what st Neilos is saying almost sounds like a scientific theory of his time and terribly dated.
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2013, 04:21:08 PM »

Tough question. To be honest, the Christian sexual ethic doesn't make much sense no matter how you look at it. We believe that God is our creator and the body is inherently good, yet, we suppress our physical desires and have to practice strict monogamy, which seems very unnatural, especially when science tells us that promiscuity is natural, and it is the way of all our primate cousins. Quite frankly, it makes God look like a lousy designer and leads to some contradictions. If God made us, then how come we have a natural desire to sin that is rooted in our biology? The whole "Fall of Man" explanation doesn't make much sense to me, especially when we also affirm that Christ supposedly redeemed humanity from the Fall. In fact, this is one of the contradictions of the Orthodox faith I'd like to better understand; what is the relation between the Fall and Christ's redemption? Christ is called the New Adam who fixed the original Adam's mistake, yet, we don't seem much different at all, and we still suffer the effects of the Fall. Doesn't make one bit of sense.
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2013, 04:45:56 PM »

Tough question. To be honest, the Christian sexual ethic doesn't make much sense no matter how you look at it. We believe that God is our creator and the body is inherently good, yet, we suppress our physical desires and have to practice strict monogamy, which seems very unnatural, especially when science tells us that promiscuity is natural, and it is the way of all our primate cousins. Quite frankly, it makes God look like a lousy designer and leads to some contradictions. If God made us, then how come we have a natural desire to sin that is rooted in our biology?

I don't believe your accusations are fair. If you only deal with "the natural desire which is rooted in our biology", one woman should be enough - and some can even do with none. If, however, you're turning it into the main focus of your existence and this tremendous irresistible force (by adding fuel to those passions), then of course it's hard to resist. Just like food is irresistible for the glutton.

There's this story somewhere in the Desert Fathers about one guy who told his Elder he was so horny that one woman could hardly satisfy him - he wanted ten! He left for the city. Years pass and they meet again. The Elder asks him how his ten wives are doing. He says he only took one and could barely keep up with the work to support her...

The whole "Fall of Man" explanation doesn't make much sense to me, especially when we also affirm that Christ supposedly redeemed humanity from the Fall. In fact, this is one of the contradictions of the Orthodox faith I'd like to better understand; what is the relation between the Fall and Christ's redemption? Christ is called the New Adam who fixed the original Adam's mistake, yet, we don't seem much different at all, and we still suffer the effects of the Fall. Doesn't make one bit of sense.

You're putting sexuality at the centre of Fall and Redemption - that's not the Orthodox approach. See this.
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 08:54:29 PM »

I struggle with this too, Achronos, and being married doesn't necessarily make it any easier. I will share some things that help me.

1. Find a job that doesn't allow so much idle time. I had a job like this too and ran into the same problems.

2. Make a deliberate attempt to focus on controlling your thoughts. The kinds of thoughts we nurture have an enormous effect on our lives. It takes practice, but believe it or not, focusing your thoughts on prayer and the remembrance of God CAN become habitual and eventually second nature.

3. Watch what you eat. It is no coincidence, for me, that my most "lust-free" time is Lent. It's not because I'm extra holy during that time, but is seriously directly related to the amount of food I'm eating. Don't allow yourself to eat whatever you want, whenever you want.

It is very, very, very hard work. I struggle deeply and profoundly with this. But there is hope! If you rely on your own strength, you most certainly fall. Just be honest about it before Christ and simply ask for His help.
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 02:21:20 AM »

Tough question. To be honest, the Christian sexual ethic doesn't make much sense no matter how you look at it. We believe that God is our creator and the body is inherently good, yet, we suppress our physical desires and have to practice strict monogamy, which seems very unnatural, especially when science tells us that promiscuity is natural, and it is the way of all our primate cousins. Quite frankly, it makes God look like a lousy designer and leads to some contradictions. If God made us, then how come we have a natural desire to sin that is rooted in our biology? The whole "Fall of Man" explanation doesn't make much sense to me, especially when we also affirm that Christ supposedly redeemed humanity from the Fall. In fact, this is one of the contradictions of the Orthodox faith I'd like to better understand; what is the relation between the Fall and Christ's redemption? Christ is called the New Adam who fixed the original Adam's mistake, yet, we don't seem much different at all, and we still suffer the effects of the Fall. Doesn't make one bit of sense.

The soul knows what is good , and tries to do that which we know is good, but we are in a constant battle with the body-flesh desires and passions. Here is what St.Paul says about the battle of the two.

Romans 7
The Conflict of Two Natures

      14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

      21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 02:23:09 AM »

I really miss orthonorm.
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2013, 04:51:09 AM »

Lust for women is a heavy cross I bear, when I'm in idle thoughts the lust comes out in full force.

I haven't had enough rapport with my new priest to tell him this, but when I'm at work there are hours of my day where I do nothing but sort of daydream .

What has helped me outside of work is to focus on my numerous activities that preoccupies me.

There is this girl I want to date but I feel it is nothing more than lust.

Am I wrong to think sexual sins are the most passionate?


Yes. And again, stop bragging about your perceived potency and desire. In nearly every mammal the desire for table salt will beat sex every time. You are just incredibly capable of sating your desire for the former and equally incapable of sating your desire for the latter.

Stop taking in sodium for a day or two.

Holler back.
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2013, 04:52:24 AM »

I really miss orthonorm.

Likewise.
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2013, 04:59:30 AM »

Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 

+1
Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 

+1
Most have a dominant passion that, for us, is stronger than any other passion.  For some, that passion is lust, while others may have another dominant passion.  Our dominant passion may be supported and strengthened by other passions that we continually consent to because we consider them innocent compared to the more serious passions that they lead to.  This dominant passion remains strong only as long as we feed it and give it air to breathe.  The more we suffocate and starve this passion, and the seemingly smaller passions which support it, the more it withers and dies.

I think the passion of lust is probably very strong for most men in our society because of the prevalence of sexual content and images that flood every aspect of the media, from the lyrics of songs, to television shows, to the internet, to seductive advertisements around the borders of online news articles, to the increasingly immodest attire that has become acceptable for women.  Lust easily follows on the trail of both idleness and gluttony.  If we are idle, we can either fill this idleness with work, with prayer, and with spiritual reading; or, we can allow our mind to wonder, opening our hearts to any suggestion from the Enemy that may excite and entice us through the promise of pleasure and the deception that sensual pleasure leads to satisfaction.  In idleness we may allow our eyes to wonder, or begin to indulge other senses such as the sense of taste, thereby dulling the soul and strengthening the flesh.  This how we lay out the red carpet for lust and fornication.  But, again, if we starve the passions through genuine fasting, prayer, spiritual reading, and hard work, avoiding opportunities for the mind to wonder and for lust to take hold, then we can cut off its air supply and cause the passion to wither.  The more that we, with the help of God, overcome our passions, the weaker they become. 

+1
I mean no disrespect but I can see the link between gluttony and lust as a metsphor. But what st Neilos is saying almost sounds like a scientific theory of his time and terribly dated.

I have no idea how long a European must live in America to catch our strain of sexual pathology. And I don't mean HPV. Let me know when sex becomes for you the most intimate and powerful personal experience that no one can possibly understand that you can never stop telling everyone about.

I think in most of Western Europe it is denim.

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