If, as you seem to project, you are looking for the truth, could you perhaps start with your profile? Say, your faith is "Atheism" and not Christianity, that is if you are fully convinced of what you believe now.
You say, perhaps God and the devil are the same, how did you arrive at that? You gave examples such as the experience of Job, and suggested you value what is logical, could you then please create a well formed argument? Such as
A is B.
B is C.
Therefore, A is C.
Is that possible?
I am confused. I am in a bit delicate time of my life. That is why I opened all this threads around the same subject. I don't know who God is anymore or who the devil is.
In the book of Job, God and the devil seem to work together or atleast play dice over Job. In Isaiah 45 God says he creates evil/calumny. AFAIK in Judaism the agent of calumny is Satan, and also the prosecutor in the court of judgement.
I guess what I am asking is who the Devil is and what are his relations with God.
First of all, thanks, for your calm reply.
Please realize that the scripture can be interpreted in many ways, some doing so by cherry picking, and some without proper guidance. What you see, may not be the same with others. It then comes down to what is reasonable interpretation. But we need not get down to hermeneutics, unless we have to.
In the beginning, there is no Devil. Perhaps you forgot about this, in Ezekiel 28 he was described as
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Notice that he was described as having full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. This isn't a description of what is evil. Moreover, he was the
anointed cherub that covers
. As I see it, since there were cherubim, then among them he was "the". His nearness with God is so that he covers. This is really, really close. He was perfect in his ways.
He became the evil when iniquity was found in him.
Does this clarify what is the relationship of Lucifer with God before the former became evil?
Isn't God the source of all things, you might say. The answer is no. While God is the source, he is the source of all things good, since good begets good, a tree is known by its fruit. It is illogical to argue otherwise. Sure, the KJV translated Isaiah 45:7 asI form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things
But "evil" here is open to other translation such as calamity which NASB used. In any case, we have to be careful how we read text, and shouldn't take things as it appeared.
Since God created all things good, the covering cherub then became evil, not from God but as the fathers had put it by deprivation of what is good. It is not God who deprived of what is good, on the contrary, he gave him things that are good. Rather, it is Lucifer himself who rejected the goodness of his state and relationship with God, for in Ezekiel again,16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
So here, we see him as himself being the source of his own corruption, and not God, for angels have free will, just as we. Makes sense?