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Author Topic: terirem?  (Read 2555 times) Average Rating: 0
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isaelie
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« on: September 08, 2013, 09:14:08 AM »

i've read what people on the internet have been saying about it. But i still dont get it? Why not just continue on with the service, why extend something? What is terirem (if it is done in monasteries, there has to be something that the majority agrees what it is about)
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 09:38:45 AM »

i've read what people on the internet have been saying about it. But i still dont get it? Why not just continue on with the service, why extend something? What is terirem (if it is done in monasteries, there has to be something that the majority agrees what it is about)

Such extended musical compositions (kalophonika) are reserved for very special occasions (Vigils of great feasts, Patron Saints, etc.). On the Holy Mountain such Vigils can take up to 10 hours (Divine Liturgy included). St. John Koukouzelis introduced this genre in the 14th century.

Certain liturgical actions (processions, communion and so on) take up more time when many clergy and people are present.

You wouldn't hear it in the average parish on a regular Sunday service. 

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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 01:28:13 PM »

I'm 60, a cradle, a son, Godson and brother of a priest and father of a seminarian and a cantor.  I've never heard the term.

Suffice it to say, if it's a hot Netodox topic, it's probably a monastic practice; someone read about and  thought it sounded "cool."

« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 01:28:54 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 02:58:18 PM »

i've read what people on the internet have been saying about it. But i still dont get it? Why not just continue on with the service, why extend something? What is terirem (if it is done in monasteries, there has to be something that the majority agrees what it is about)

What do you mean by the parenthetical reference? And the last question. Why are you asking what it is, if you supposedly know what it is already?
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 04:07:43 PM »

You can hear many recordings of it on Youtube. Yes, it is typically done in monasteries with the Byzantine style chant. I suppose the idea is to prolong and deepen a certain spiritual atmosphere, as well as fill up time when the priest is doing some lengthy inaudible prayers. It can be very highly improvisational- the Orthodox equivalent of scatting.
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isaelie
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 05:01:24 PM »

i've read what people on the internet have been saying about it. But i still dont get it? Why not just continue on with the service, why extend something? What is terirem (if it is done in monasteries, there has to be something that the majority agrees what it is about)

What do you mean by the parenthetical reference? And the last question. Why are you asking what it is, if you supposedly know what it is already?

You can hear many recordings of it on Youtube. Yes, it is typically done in monasteries with the Byzantine style chant. I suppose the idea is to prolong and deepen a certain spiritual atmosphere, as well as fill up time when the priest is doing some lengthy inaudible prayers. It can be very highly improvisational- the Orthodox equivalent of scatting.
ok, so it is a space-filler and is highly improvisational. But does anyone find it weird, it just seems weird to me, i dont know. And what i meant by the parentheses, is there any agreement on what terirem actually means? Isnt it weird that something used in liturgy majority of people dont know what it means.

How does it improve the spiritual atmosphere when its hard to find a consensus for what it even means. I am not mocking you or anything like that, dont take offense (not what im trying to do)
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isaelie
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 07:29:15 PM »

can this thread be deleted
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 07:31:14 PM »

can this thread be deleted please, i found the answer and no longer want to keep this thread up anymore

Threads are not deleted without very serious reasons. And this is not the case.
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2013, 07:35:00 PM »

can i delete my account?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 07:43:56 PM by isaelie » Logged
isaelie
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2013, 07:35:28 PM »

if there was an option to remove all my previous posts, everything i have posted on this website, i would that (no hatred, i would like to delete because of the things i have said or started which I dont want other people to read so that they be saved and for them to learn good things, not bad or wrong things)

for example, i maybe posted something in the past about the Theotokos, or my un-Orthodox thoughts, or something foreign to the truth

Do not get me wrong, i am 100% orthodox, but i have made errors in the past by posting bad things which i would like removed for the better of other people

« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 07:56:23 PM by isaelie » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 07:37:14 PM »

I'm 60, a cradle, a son, Godson and brother of a priest and father of a seminarian and a cantor.  I've never heard the term.

Suffice it to say, if it's a hot Netodox topic, it's probably a monastic practice; someone read about and  thought it sounded "cool."



Terirem is an element of Byzantine chant tradition, not Slavic. This is probably why you've never heard of it.  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 07:42:14 PM »

can i delete my account? i no longer want this user account

You can't.

if only there was an option to remove all previous posts

There isn't.

It was written no accounts are deleted in the registration panel. You agreed to that terms.
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 07:43:21 PM »

I'm 60, a cradle, a son, Godson and brother of a priest and father of a seminarian and a cantor.  I've never heard the term.

Suffice it to say, if it's a hot Netodox topic, it's probably a monastic practice; someone read about and  thought it sounded "cool."



Terirem is an element of Byzantine chant tradition, not Slavic. This is probably why you've never heard of it.  Smiley


Ahh, thank you.
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 11:07:49 PM »

i've read what people on the internet have been saying about it. But i still dont get it? Why not just continue on with the service, why extend something? What is terirem (if it is done in monasteries, there has to be something that the majority agrees what it is about)

What do you mean by the parenthetical reference? And the last question. Why are you asking what it is, if you supposedly know what it is already?

You can hear many recordings of it on Youtube. Yes, it is typically done in monasteries with the Byzantine style chant. I suppose the idea is to prolong and deepen a certain spiritual atmosphere, as well as fill up time when the priest is doing some lengthy inaudible prayers. It can be very highly improvisational- the Orthodox equivalent of scatting.
ok, so it is a space-filler and is highly improvisational. But does anyone find it weird, it just seems weird to me, i dont know. And what i meant by the parentheses, is there any agreement on what terirem actually means? Isnt it weird that something used in liturgy majority of people dont know what it means.

How does it improve the spiritual atmosphere when its hard to find a consensus for what it even means. I am not mocking you or anything like that, dont take offense (not what im trying to do)

The actual syllables "te ri rem" mean nothing. The terirem, it has already been said, is sung basically only in monasteries of the Byzantine tradition, usually as a part of the all-night vigil, which actually lasts all night. While it is chanted, the monks pray, as they always do.
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 11:14:44 PM »

if there was an option to remove all my previous posts, everything i have posted on this website, i would that (no hatred, i would like to delete because of the things i have said or started which I dont want other people to read so that they be saved and for them to learn good things, not bad or wrong things)

for example, i maybe posted something in the past about the Theotokos, or my un-Orthodox thoughts, or something foreign to the truth

Do not get me wrong, i am 100% orthodox, but i have made errors in the past by posting bad things which i would like removed for the better of other people



the only thing they can do is ban you!!

Yes, your posts will love on here forever!
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2013, 11:16:57 PM »

Also, I hear that the Theotokos sung terirem to Jesus as baby!
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2013, 11:23:20 PM »

Also, I hear that the Theotokos sung terirem to Jesus as baby!

I'm sure she did.  In plagal of the first. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ooLAI3eIk
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2013, 11:24:35 PM »

I also hear angels sing terirem!

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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2013, 04:33:55 PM »

This is like "aneanee" or "neeaanees" used as a tone indicator. I don't remember what tone it is that uses "terirem", but it might be a tone indicator as well as a way of lengthening the service.
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2013, 04:55:46 PM »

This is like "aneanee" or "neeaanees" used as a tone indicator. I don't remember what tone it is that uses "terirem", but it might be a tone indicator as well as a way of lengthening the service.

No, terirem is not a tone indicator.
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2013, 04:58:52 PM »

This is like "aneanee" or "neeaanees" used as a tone indicator. I don't remember what tone it is that uses "terirem", but it might be a tone indicator as well as a way of lengthening the service.

It's definitely not one of the apechemata: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15510.msg221323.html#msg221323
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2013, 05:39:50 PM »

Terirems, which I really love, are supposed to express the «inexpressible», when words fails to convey, the mystery, the beauty, the reverence, the awe, tee love, the wonder. There is only the music of the human voice. I find them very uplifting. And they are not only done in monasteries but sometimes, also in some parishes. Very rarely I admit. 
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2013, 06:39:05 PM »

I'm 60, a cradle, a son, Godson and brother of a priest and father of a seminarian and a cantor.  I've never heard the term.

Suffice it to say, if it's a hot Netodox topic, it's probably a monastic practice; someone read about and  thought it sounded "cool."


we have a previous thread on this abomination somewhere here.
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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2013, 05:00:32 AM »

Terirems, which I really love, are supposed to express the «inexpressible», when words fails to convey, the mystery, the beauty, the reverence, the awe, tee love, the wonder. There is only the music of the human voice. I find them very uplifting. And they are not only done in monasteries but sometimes, also in some parishes. Very rarely I admit.  


The protopsaltis in our parish adds a terirem to the Trisagion quite often. While it sounds great, there's no need making an already long liturgy even longer. I think it should be limited to vigils, where length for length's sake actually serves a purpose.
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« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2014, 12:04:55 PM »

I think Terirem would be very useful for the anaphora, especially with the long inaudible prayer that the celebrant has to read, and the very short response, at least in the Byzantine tradition, of  " It is meet and right".
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« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2014, 01:59:30 PM »

I think Terirem would be very useful for the anaphora, especially with the long inaudible prayer that the celebrant has to read, and the very short response, at least in the Byzantine tradition, of  " It is meet and right".

It would also be very useful to return to an audible anaphora, especially if the alternative is the chanting of meaningless syllables to pass the time while the priest recites the prayer
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« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2014, 09:45:37 AM »

I have no problem with terirems. I think they're beautiful- a kind of wordless prayer.
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« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2014, 10:13:34 AM »

I think Terirem would be very useful for the anaphora, especially with the long inaudible prayer that the celebrant has to read, and the very short response, at least in the Byzantine tradition, of  " It is meet and right".

It would also be very useful to return to an audible anaphora, especially if the alternative is the chanting of meaningless syllables to pass the time while the priest recites the prayer

+1. In my parish, as in many Antiochian and OCA parishes, we are blessed to participate in the anaphora and the epiklesis, as well as the prayer for the catechumens and at the bowing of our heads.
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