Author Topic: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?  (Read 1116 times)

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Offline griego catolico

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Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« on: September 03, 2013, 04:22:29 PM »
There are examples where the Divine Liturgy is or has been celebrated by Eastern Orthodox priests in Roman Catholic churches, either on a temporary, frequent, or regular basis. A good example would be the Basilica of Saint Nicholas in Bari.

I am interested to know if there are examples of Catholic Masses or other services having been celebrated in Eastern or Oriental Orthodox churches.  
The only example I can think of is when Saint Sophia Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Los Angeles offered the use of the cathedral to the parishioners of Saint Thomas the Apostle Roman Catholic Church after it was the victim of arson.

Any others?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 04:24:07 PM by griego catolico »

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 04:25:01 PM »
Voluntarily or involuntarily? I can think of Hagia Sophia after the Fourth Crusade.

Offline mike

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 04:29:13 PM »
I know there are some churches in Lemko area that are used both by Orthodox and Catholics (both rites).

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 04:31:14 PM »
There are examples where the Divine Liturgy is or has been celebrated by Eastern Orthodox priests in Roman Catholic churches, either on a temporary, frequent, or regular basis. A good example would be the Basilica of Saint Nicholas in Bari.

I am interested to know if there are examples of Catholic Masses or other services having been celebrated in Eastern or Oriental Orthodox churches.  
The only example I can think of is when Saint Sophia Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Los Angeles offered the use of the cathedral to the parishioners of Saint Thomas the Apostle Roman Catholic Church after it was the victim of arson.

Any others?

Some churches in Western Ukraine have alternated services, particularly after 1988.  I'm not sure if that is still happening anywhere.  Churches of all kinds are being built constantly in that region.  

I can give many examples of such Latin services in former Eastern rite Catholic churches after the Eastern rite was abolished.   But I don't think that's what you're looking for.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 04:44:44 PM »
Voluntarily or involuntarily? I can think of Hagia Sophia after the Fourth Crusade.
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 04:57:27 PM »
Also: The Holy Sepulchre and Church of the Nativity?

Offline Alpo

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 05:13:43 PM »
AFAIK it happens and/or it has happened in Finland in those places where Catholics don't have churches of their own. Which they rarely do since RC diocese of Helsinki is quite small.

Not on the holy table though. IIRC according the pictures that I've seen the actual altar was closed while RCs had set up a temporary altar in front of the royal doors.

Offline WPM

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 06:31:21 PM »
I think the Eastern liturgy of St. John Chrysostom celebrated in most orthodox churches.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 06:31:36 PM by WPM »

Offline Father H

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2013, 06:36:34 PM »
Voluntarily or involuntarily? I can think of Hagia Sophia after the Fourth Crusade.
Happens in the Church of the Resurrection regularly in Jerusalem.

You beat me to it

Offline Father H

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2013, 06:38:48 PM »
Also: The Holy Sepulchre and Church of the Nativity?

Yes, both.  However, RC's do not use the Orthodox altar of either katholikon, but have their own space.  However, in the Church of the Resurrection, all use the tomb itself at various points (the antimension is only present for the Orthodox celebration). 

Offline Father H

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2013, 06:40:22 PM »
AFAIK it happens and/or it has happened in Finland in those places where Catholics don't have churches of their own. Which they rarely do since RC diocese of Helsinki is quite small.

Not on the holy table though. IIRC according the pictures that I've seen the actual altar was closed while RCs had set up a temporary altar in front of the royal doors.

Right, and this is no problem for Novus Ordo--western facing anyway.  Facing the congregation would be impossible on the Orthodox HT without rearranging it altogether. 

Offline mike

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2013, 06:42:37 PM »
AFAIK it happens and/or it has happened in Finland in those places where Catholics don't have churches of their own. Which they rarely do since RC diocese of Helsinki is quite small.

Not on the holy table though. IIRC according the pictures that I've seen the actual altar was closed while RCs had set up a temporary altar in front of the royal doors.

Right, and this is no problem for Novus Ordo--western facing anyway.  Facing the congregation would be impossible on the Orthodox HT without rearranging it altogether. 

Unless you are Ecumenical Patriarch


Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 06:58:30 PM »
Honestly, that Novus Ordo stuff should just not be in the Holy Churches of Jerusalem.

Tridentine is at least tolerable.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 07:16:42 PM »
Also: The Holy Sepulchre and Church of the Nativity?

Golgotha and Nativity grotto have separate altars for the Latins.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 07:18:28 PM »
Honestly, that Novus Ordo stuff should just not be in the Holy Churches of Jerusalem.

Tridentine is at least tolerable.

My understanding was that the NO isn't used in the spaces ruled by the sultan's firman.
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Offline Father H

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 07:59:20 PM »
AFAIK it happens and/or it has happened in Finland in those places where Catholics don't have churches of their own. Which they rarely do since RC diocese of Helsinki is quite small.

Not on the holy table though. IIRC according the pictures that I've seen the actual altar was closed while RCs had set up a temporary altar in front of the royal doors.

Right, and this is no problem for Novus Ordo--western facing anyway.  Facing the congregation would be impossible on the Orthodox HT without rearranging it altogether. 

Unless you are Ecumenical Patriarch



In this case he is facing east, the people are facing west because they cannot be behind him facing east. 

Offline griego catolico

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 08:09:55 PM »
Honestly, that Novus Ordo stuff should just not be in the Holy Churches of Jerusalem.

Tridentine is at least tolerable.

My understanding was that the NO isn't used in the spaces ruled by the sultan's firman.

The Novus Ordo Missae is celebrated in the major shrines of the Holy Land.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 09:32:51 PM »
There are examples where the Divine Liturgy is or has been celebrated by Eastern Orthodox priests in Roman Catholic churches, either on a temporary, frequent, or regular basis. A good example would be the Basilica of Saint Nicholas in Bari.

I am interested to know if there are examples of Catholic Masses or other services having been celebrated in Eastern or Oriental Orthodox churches.  
The only example I can think of is when Saint Sophia Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Los Angeles offered the use of the cathedral to the parishioners of Saint Thomas the Apostle Roman Catholic Church after it was the victim of arson.

Any others?
The Russians have their own chapel in the Crypt at Bari Basilica.
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Offline griego catolico

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 08:03:07 PM »
The Russians have their own chapel in the Crypt at Bari Basilica.



My understanding is that the chapel is not exclusively Russian as Italo Byzantine Catholics also use it as mentioned in the following CNEWA article:

Quote
As I walked down a flight of stairs into the crypt where Nicholas’s body is enshrined, I heard the distinct sound of Byzantine chant. A Byzantine Divine Liturgy was in progress. The language, however, was not Greek or Slavonic, but Italian. Italo-Byzantine Catholics (who number some 65,000 people) were not alone in their worship. Greeks, Russians and curious Latin Catholics all took part in the liturgy as well.

One Russian family caught my eye. The father watched his youngest child as his wife and daughters, their heads covered in colorful scarves, lit candles, kissed icons, pressed their heads to the sacred images and prostrated themselves before the altar. Although they abstained from the Eucharist, this family and the other Orthodox pilgrims who were in attendance rushed to the iconostasis to receive the blessed bread and to be anointed with the holy myron, or oil, of St. Nicholas.
Source: http://www.cnewa.org/default.aspx?ID=760&pagetypeID=4&sitecode=CA%20%20&pageno=1

Orthodox liturgies have been celebrated on the main altar of the basilica ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWNr_DA7IS0 ) and on the main altar in the crypt ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ_ssHxDzu8 ).

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2013, 01:05:15 AM »
AFAIK it happens and/or it has happened in Finland in those places where Catholics don't have churches of their own. Which they rarely do since RC diocese of Helsinki is quite small.

Not on the holy table though. IIRC according the pictures that I've seen the actual altar was closed while RCs had set up a temporary altar in front of the royal doors.

Right, and this is no problem for Novus Ordo--western facing anyway.  Facing the congregation would be impossible on the Orthodox HT without rearranging it altogether. 

Unless you are Ecumenical Patriarch



In this case he is facing east, the people are facing west because they cannot be behind him facing east. 

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Offline the slave

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2013, 05:30:02 PM »


Some churches in Western Ukraine have alternated services, particularly after 1988.  I'm not sure if that is still happening anywhere.  Churches of all kinds are being built constantly in that region.  

I can give many examples of such Latin services in former Eastern rite Catholic churches after the Eastern rite was abolished.   But I don't think that's what you're looking for.

Just out of curiosity - could you please explain what you mean by
Quote
after the Eastern rite was abolished.
?
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Offline mike

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Re: Catholic Mass celebrated in an Orthodox church?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 06:04:32 PM »
Just out of curiosity - could you please explain what you mean by
Quote
after the Eastern rite was abolished.
?

1875 probably.