Author Topic: Jewish Christianity  (Read 2980 times)

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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2013, 07:21:14 PM »
Fr. James is my priest.  He does not follow any kosher diet.
Thank you for the clarification. I don't know where I got that from.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 07:23:30 PM by rakovsky »

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2013, 08:33:50 PM »
Jewish Christianity is the religious outlook & perspective adopted by a Jew

In my journey to Holy Orthodoxy I was involved with "Jews for Jesus" to some extent. And at the time I was a fallen away Roman Catholic who was disillusioned by the post happenings of VATII.  Keep in mind that my journey involved from not going to church at all to investigating other forms of Christianity.  I looked into Evangelicals, Pentecostalism, Anglicanism, etc. I hit upon Jews for Jesus and thought that maybe this was a fundamental means to salvation only to learn that all they were was a pseudo Protestant group using the OT as a way of luring Jews into Christianity.  Once I found Holy Orthodoxy I knew that this Jews for Jesus did not fulfill my need for the ancient and mystical Church of Jesus Christ.

Offline Rambam

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2013, 09:44:14 PM »
Maybe there's a bunch of different strains of "Jewish Christianity" ?  When I was growing up, my folks got us all involved in a group like this -- but we called it Messianic Judaism. It was mostly Christians who were dissatisfied with the smorgasbord of Protestant options and wanted to "do it like Jesus did." In other words, a bunch of Christians who worshiped like Jews. We'd come together on Saturday nights and have a havdalah service, sing, dance, and learn the Bible (both OT and NT).  I actually look back on those times fondly, and still try to make challah whenever I can.

It ultimately brought me to Orthodoxy, so I can't complain.



Jewish Christianity is the religious outlook & perspective adopted by a Jew

In my journey to Holy Orthodoxy I was involved with "Jews for Jesus" to some extent. And at the time I was a fallen away Roman Catholic who was disillusioned by the post happenings of VATII.  Keep in mind that my journey involved from not going to church at all to investigating other forms of Christianity.  I looked into Evangelicals, Pentecostalism, Anglicanism, etc. I hit upon Jews for Jesus and thought that maybe this was a fundamental means to salvation only to learn that all they were was a pseudo Protestant group using the OT as a way of luring Jews into Christianity.  Once I found Holy Orthodoxy I knew that this Jews for Jesus did not fulfill my need for the ancient and mystical Church of Jesus Christ.

Offline dcommini

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2013, 09:59:56 PM »
Maybe there's a bunch of different strains of "Jewish Christianity" ?  When I was growing up, my folks got us all involved in a group like this -- but we called it Messianic Judaism. It was mostly Christians who were dissatisfied with the smorgasbord of Protestant options and wanted to "do it like Jesus did." In other words, a bunch of Christians who worshiped like Jews. We'd come together on Saturday nights and have a havdalah service, sing, dance, and learn the Bible (both OT and NT).  I actually look back on those times fondly, and still try to make challah whenever I can.

It ultimately brought me to Orthodoxy, so I can't complain.



Jewish Christianity is the religious outlook & perspective adopted by a Jew

In my journey to Holy Orthodoxy I was involved with "Jews for Jesus" to some extent. And at the time I was a fallen away Roman Catholic who was disillusioned by the post happenings of VATII.  Keep in mind that my journey involved from not going to church at all to investigating other forms of Christianity.  I looked into Evangelicals, Pentecostalism, Anglicanism, etc. I hit upon Jews for Jesus and thought that maybe this was a fundamental means to salvation only to learn that all they were was a pseudo Protestant group using the OT as a way of luring Jews into Christianity.  Once I found Holy Orthodoxy I knew that this Jews for Jesus did not fulfill my need for the ancient and mystical Church of Jesus Christ.

I attended Jewish services with one of my buddies when I was at MP school. I found it far more edifying and spiritually uplifting than the Protestant services that were provided. If I had to pinpoint one event that started my search for the Ancient Church this would probably be it.
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Offline Nicene

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2013, 04:09:51 AM »
I find with messianic Judaism there is this often not so subtle attempt to get people to go under the old law.

"well Jesus was baptised and ate kosher, why don't you?"

It also seems an attempt to invent a relatively ancient form of Christianity, although it is not a legitimate form of Christianity. There are some really weird messianic groups out there with a tonne of different beliefs.
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2014, 06:37:31 PM »
Jewish Christianity is the religious outlook & perspective adopted by a Jew
You mean Messianic Jews?
They are the fastest growing stream of Judaism and I find them very fascinating as they are normal Jews , or Complete Jews/Fulfilled Jews as they all themselves, but at the same time accept Jesus as their Messiah. They strictly follow their Jewish traditions as well as believing in Jesus and, frankly, I think that's how Jesus may have wanted it ...Matthew 5:17
"Jesus: Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."
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Offline LBK

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2014, 06:39:10 PM »
Jewish Christianity is the religious outlook & perspective adopted by a Jew
You mean Messianic Jews?
They are the fastest growing stream of Judaism and I find them very fascinating as they are normal Jews , or Complete Jews/Fulfilled Jews as they all themselves, but at the same time accept Jesus as their Messiah. They strictly follow their Jewish traditions as well as believing in Jesus and, frankly, I think that's how Jesus may have wanted it ...Matthew 5:17
"Jesus: Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."

So, Andrew, should Christians be circumcised or baptized? Should they keep the Passover, or celebrate the Resurrection?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 06:41:36 PM by LBK »
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2014, 06:42:47 PM »
Jewish Christianity is the religious outlook & perspective adopted by a Jew
You mean Messianic Jews?
They are the fastest growing stream of Judaism and I find them very fascinating as they are normal Jews , or Complete Jews/Fulfilled Jews as they all themselves, but at the same time accept Jesus as their Messiah. They strictly follow their Jewish traditions as well as believing in Jesus and, frankly, I think that's how Jesus may have wanted it ...Matthew 5:17
"Jesus: Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."

So, Andrew, should Christians be circumcised or baptized? Should they keep the Passover, or celebrate the Resurrection?
Why is it a matter of or rather than of and?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2014, 06:46:44 PM »
Jewish Christianity is the religious outlook & perspective adopted by a Jew
You mean Messianic Jews?
They are the fastest growing stream of Judaism and I find them very fascinating as they are normal Jews , or Complete Jews/Fulfilled Jews as they all themselves, but at the same time accept Jesus as their Messiah. They strictly follow their Jewish traditions as well as believing in Jesus and, frankly, I think that's how Jesus may have wanted it ...Matthew 5:17
"Jesus: Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."

So, Andrew, should Christians be circumcised or baptized? Should they keep the Passover, or celebrate the Resurrection?
Why is it a matter of or rather than of and?

That is the very crux of the matter. Hint: the dispute in Acts, and St Peter's vision.

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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2014, 06:49:51 PM »

That is the very crux of the matter. Hint: the dispute in Acts, and St Peter's vision.


The dispute in Acts was different though. ;)

Paul objected to the imposition of the Law on Gentiles. His problem was with the Jewish doctrine that one has to follow the Mosaic Law to be saved/justified.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2014, 06:53:28 PM »

That is the very crux of the matter. Hint: the dispute in Acts, and St Peter's vision.


The dispute in Acts was different though. ;)

Paul objected to the imposition of the Law on Gentiles. His problem was with the Jewish doctrine that one has to follow the Mosaic Law to be saved/justified.

And Paul was right. The Mosaic Law did not need to be followed, as, now that Christ has come, there is neither Jew nor Greek. So, again, what of Peter's vision, and Passover/Resurrection? These are only a couple of examples.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 06:54:05 PM by LBK »
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2014, 06:57:24 PM »

That is the very crux of the matter. Hint: the dispute in Acts, and St Peter's vision.


The dispute in Acts was different though. ;)

Paul objected to the imposition of the Law on Gentiles. His problem was with the Jewish doctrine that one has to follow the Mosaic Law to be saved/justified.

And Paul was right. The Mosaic Law did not need to be followed, as, now that Christ has come, there is neither Jew nor Greek. So, again, what of Peter's vision, and Passover/Resurrection? These are only a couple of examples.

Peter's vision was about the proclamation of the Gospel to the Gentiles. The Church did not allow the Mosaic Law to be an obstacle in the conversion of the Gentiles to Christianity.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2014, 09:21:20 PM »

That is the very crux of the matter. Hint: the dispute in Acts, and St Peter's vision.


The dispute in Acts was different though. ;)

Paul objected to the imposition of the Law on Gentiles. His problem was with the Jewish doctrine that one has to follow the Mosaic Law to be saved/justified.

And Paul was right. The Mosaic Law did not need to be followed, as, now that Christ has come, there is neither Jew nor Greek. So, again, what of Peter's vision, and Passover/Resurrection? These are only a couple of examples.

Peter's vision was about the proclamation of the Gospel to the Gentiles. The Church did not allow the Mosaic Law to be an obstacle in the conversion of the Gentiles to Christianity.

So what do these "Messianic Jews" do? Eat the Passover lamb, and, a few days or weeks later, celebrate the resurrection? And whatever happened to The shadow of the Law has passed away? I'm sorry, but there are major conflicts between "full" Judaic practice, and Christian practice.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 09:21:35 PM by LBK »
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Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2014, 09:31:25 PM »
:/ The thing is, the person who does this (a general term, no one in this thread in particular) does a disservice to both faiths. It's dishonorable to both Judaism and Christianity. They are both two different religions. You should pick one and not misrepresent the other.
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Offline KostaC

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2014, 09:58:36 PM »
I'd be surprised if the Jewish Christian communities in Israel/Palestine didn't keep kosher. I've known a few non-observant Jews in the U.S. who keep kosher (albeit not the strict standards that halakha requires).

It's a bit strange, innit, that quite a few Jewish people who are atheists still maintain dietary laws and other rules (even Shimon Peres, who says that he's not religious, made quite a scene when he refused to travel on Saturdays and thus could not make it to the Olympic ceremonies last summer from his hotel), but here in America we can't even get many Orthodox Christians to fast at all, even half-assedly (I'll admit that I am terrible with fasting m'self)

Anyway, has anyone here ever been to Israel and met people from the Israeli community? I have a love of all Jewish languages, so I was bored one day and Googled "Yiddish translation of Saint John Chrysostom" (I really have no life; maybe my friends are right in that I should go clubbing with them  :D). While I haven't found Yiddish (yet!), I have found Hebrew, and the story of how refugees from the Soviet Union who were sometimes only 1/16th or 1/8th Jewish claimed the Right of Return and settled in Israel. Some have retained the Russian language, others have embraced Hebrew. This is all I could find on the liturgy in Hebrew: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGSM9oRr1Mo&lc=GfjJdS06bt4kAxZ6IjeR_m4EI0I0Z12ggr3TCQ91lcg.

Also, I was surprised to find out that there are more Jewish Christians in Russia than I ever thought (not that I ever thought that there were many, or that I ever really thought about it at all). The best example I can think of is that a speaker in the Knesset, Yuli Edelstein, is the son of a priest, Georgy Edelstein, who serves in Karabanovo. Does anyone know of any more interesting stories about Jewish Orthodox-Christians?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2014, 10:18:25 PM »
:/ The thing is, the person who does this (a general term, no one in this thread in particular) does a disservice to both faiths. It's dishonorable to both Judaism and Christianity. They are both two different religions. You should pick one and not misrepresent the other.

Precisely. It should be one or the other, not a misguided mishmash.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2014, 10:26:04 PM »
I don't think you can delete accidental posts?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 10:28:39 PM by rakovsky »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2014, 10:27:54 PM »
Does anyone know of any more interesting stories about Jewish Orthodox-Christians?
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Offline mike

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Re: Jewish Christianity
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2014, 06:31:05 PM »
Does anyone know of any more interesting stories about Jewish Orthodox-Christians?

Acts of the Apostles?