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Author Topic: Im trying to be forgiving  (Read 1921 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2013, 02:55:04 PM »

Do you stop being their friend?
It can happen, depends if they purposely mock it all the time , then it is logical to go apart..
Maybe it's just me, but I am very selective who I call "friend."  I have debated and even fought with my friends, but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them.  Even if they told me that they hated God or that He doesn't exist, I would still try to love them as best I could through Christ.  Even a friendly debate with an atheist rarely changes anyone's mind or heart.
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« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2013, 03:06:40 PM »

Do you stop being their friend?
It can happen, depends if they purposely mock it all the time , then it is logical to go apart..
Maybe it's just me, but I am very selective who I call "friend."  I have debated and even fought with my friends, but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them.  Even if they told me that they hated God or that He doesn't exist, I would still try to love them as best I could through Christ.  Even a friendly debate with an atheist rarely changes anyone's mind or heart.
But isn't it betraying God to be friends with someone who hates God?
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« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2013, 03:11:38 PM »

Do you stop being their friend?
It can happen, depends if they purposely mock it all the time , then it is logical to go apart..
Maybe it's just me, but I am very selective who I call "friend."  I have debated and even fought with my friends, but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them.  Even if they told me that they hated God or that He doesn't exist, I would still try to love them as best I could through Christ.  Even a friendly debate with an atheist rarely changes anyone's mind or heart.
But isn't it a Gods betrayal to be friends who hate God?
There's the possibility that they can change due to love and friendship rather than not being their friend because you were offended by what was said.  How could I say to (hypothetical situation) a friend who says he hates God or doesn't believe in God, "Well, I guess we're not friends anymore.  Those good times and conversations we had mean nothing, because you offended me and God."  His heart would be hardened and my witness of being a loving and changed man in Christ would be for nought.  I would be just another hypocrite "christian."
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« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2013, 03:20:13 PM »

Do you stop being their friend?
It can happen, depends if they purposely mock it all the time , then it is logical to go apart..
Maybe it's just me, but I am very selective who I call "friend."  I have debated and even fought with my friends, but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them.  Even if they told me that they hated God or that He doesn't exist, I would still try to love them as best I could through Christ.  Even a friendly debate with an atheist rarely changes anyone's mind or heart.
But isn't it a Gods betrayal to be friends who hate God?
There's the possibility that they can change due to love and friendship rather than not being their friend because you were offended by what was said.  How could I say to (hypothetical situation) a friend who says he hates God or doesn't believe in God, "Well, I guess we're not friends anymore.  Those good times and conversations we had mean nothing, because you offended me and God."  His heart would be hardened and my witness of being a loving and changed man in Christ would be for nought.  I would be just another hypocrite "christian."
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?
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« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2013, 03:25:33 PM »

Does anywhere in the Bible say that God loves disbelievers?
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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2013, 03:26:25 PM »

Quote
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?

Define horrible.  I have yet to have a friend of mine be horrible to my parents.  Do you mean "horrible" as in offending my parents or "horrible" as in murdering them?  There's a difference.  
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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2013, 03:26:59 PM »

Do you stop being their friend?
It can happen, depends if they purposely mock it all the time , then it is logical to go apart..
Maybe it's just me, but I am very selective who I call "friend."  I have debated and even fought with my friends, but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them.  Even if they told me that they hated God or that He doesn't exist, I would still try to love them as best I could through Christ.  Even a friendly debate with an atheist rarely changes anyone's mind or heart.
But isn't it a Gods betrayal to be friends who hate God?
There's the possibility that they can change due to love and friendship rather than not being their friend because you were offended by what was said.  How could I say to (hypothetical situation) a friend who says he hates God or doesn't believe in God, "Well, I guess we're not friends anymore.  Those good times and conversations we had mean nothing, because you offended me and God."  His heart would be hardened and my witness of being a loving and changed man in Christ would be for nought.  I would be just another hypocrite "christian."
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?
Would I or Should I?

What I would do isn't always what I should do.
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« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2013, 03:28:13 PM »

Does anywhere in the Bible say that God loves disbelievers?

If you want to include disbelievers as part of the world, then yes.  John 3:16 in whatever version of the Bible you use.
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« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2013, 03:32:50 PM »

Quote
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?

Define horrible.  I have yet to have a friend of mine be horrible to my parents.  Do you mean "horrible" as in offending my parents or "horrible" as in murdering them?  There's a difference.  
Say they were verbally assaulting them or slandering them.
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« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2013, 03:34:01 PM »

Do you stop being their friend?
It can happen, depends if they purposely mock it all the time , then it is logical to go apart..
Maybe it's just me, but I am very selective who I call "friend."  I have debated and even fought with my friends, but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them.  Even if they told me that they hated God or that He doesn't exist, I would still try to love them as best I could through Christ.  Even a friendly debate with an atheist rarely changes anyone's mind or heart.
But isn't it a Gods betrayal to be friends who hate God?
There's the possibility that they can change due to love and friendship rather than not being their friend because you were offended by what was said.  How could I say to (hypothetical situation) a friend who says he hates God or doesn't believe in God, "Well, I guess we're not friends anymore.  Those good times and conversations we had mean nothing, because you offended me and God."  His heart would be hardened and my witness of being a loving and changed man in Christ would be for nought.  I would be just another hypocrite "christian."
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?
Would I or Should I?

What I would do isn't always what I should do.
Indeed.
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« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2013, 03:35:25 PM »

Does anywhere in the Bible say that God loves disbelievers?

If you want to include disbelievers as part of the world, then yes.  John 3:16 in whatever version of the Bible you use.
No, a specific verse about love to disbelievers.
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« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2013, 03:36:30 PM »

Quote
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?

Define horrible.  I have yet to have a friend of mine be horrible to my parents.  Do you mean "horrible" as in offending my parents or "horrible" as in murdering them?  There's a difference.  
Say they were verbally assaulting them or slandering them.
Then there are legal measures.  But again, you're talking about "someone" being horrible to my parents.  My parents aren't God.  Do you treat your parents the same way you treat God?  I don't.
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« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2013, 03:40:20 PM »

Quote
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?

Define horrible.  I have yet to have a friend of mine be horrible to my parents.  Do you mean "horrible" as in offending my parents or "horrible" as in murdering them?  There's a difference.  
Say they were verbally assaulting them or slandering them.
Then there are legal measures.  But again, you're talking about "someone" being horrible to my parents.  My parents aren't God.  Do you treat your parents the same way you treat God?  I don't.
You have not answered my question...
Im not talking about legal measures. Im talking about your personal measures, should you remain with friends who mistreated your parents verbally?
I treat my parents with the highest respect but God comes 1st.

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« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2013, 03:41:45 PM »

Does anywhere in the Bible say that God loves disbelievers?

If you want to include disbelievers as part of the world, then yes.  John 3:16 in whatever version of the Bible you use.
No, a specific verse about love to disbelievers.

You're not going to find a specific verse with those specific words.  Try Luke 6:26-37 on for size.
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« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2013, 03:45:01 PM »

Does anywhere in the Bible say that God loves disbelievers?

If you want to include disbelievers as part of the world, then yes.  John 3:16 in whatever version of the Bible you use.
No, a specific verse about love to disbelievers.

You're not going to find a specific verse with those specific words.  Try Luke 6:26-37 on for size.
Thank you.
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« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2013, 03:45:40 PM »

Quote
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?

Define horrible.  I have yet to have a friend of mine be horrible to my parents.  Do you mean "horrible" as in offending my parents or "horrible" as in murdering them?  There's a difference.  
Say they were verbally assaulting them or slandering them.
Then there are legal measures.  But again, you're talking about "someone" being horrible to my parents.  My parents aren't God.  Do you treat your parents the same way you treat God?  I don't.
You have not answered my question...
Im not talking about legal measures. Im talking about your personal measures, should you remain with friends who mistreated your parents verbally?
I treat my parents with the highest respect but God comes 1st.



Answering your question:  would I, probably not.  Should I, yes.  I have the power to forgive.  You are still equating disrepectin parents/loved ones as with God.  They are not the same.  God has been blasphemed and insulted for a lot longer than you have been offended by a wayward atheist.
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« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2013, 04:27:18 PM »

Quote
I know what you are saying I've been in situations like that.Tell me if someone hated your family and was horrible to your father and mother,would you still remain friends with them after that?

Define horrible.  I have yet to have a friend of mine be horrible to my parents.  Do you mean "horrible" as in offending my parents or "horrible" as in murdering them?  There's a difference.  
Say they were verbally assaulting them or slandering them.
Then there are legal measures.  But again, you're talking about "someone" being horrible to my parents.  My parents aren't God.  Do you treat your parents the same way you treat God?  I don't.
You have not answered my question...
Im not talking about legal measures. Im talking about your personal measures, should you remain with friends who mistreated your parents verbally?
I treat my parents with the highest respect but God comes 1st.



Answering your question:  would I, probably not.  Should I, yes.  I have the power to forgive.  You are still equating disrepectin parents/loved ones as with God.  They are not the same.  God has been blasphemed and insulted for a lot longer than you have been offended by a wayward atheist.
Im not comparing God with parents.
 You should know the reason for this, Ive given this example so that you see where I come from in this topic.
Your family is the closest people after God, so by giving you this example I want you to understand why I felt offended for what was said about God.
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« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »

I apologize, but I don't see the analogy.  I re-read your opening post and you wrote
Quote
I love debating on religious topics
which is fine, but you debate with agnostics/atheists.  And when they offend you, because you perceive that they insult God, you feel the need to defend the faith.  Is this correct?  An atheist insulting God makes no sense, because he doesn't believe in Him in the first place.  An agnostic insulting God doesn't even know if God is there; but if God does exist, the agnostic already has a bad view of Him.  So if a human insults my parents, that is bad; I understand that.  It would hurt me and my parents.  But a human insulting/blaspheming God Almighty?  He is Truth.  To me it seems that you are defending your offended state, rather than God.  If I am wrong, again, I apologize.
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« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2013, 05:09:34 PM »

I apologize, but I don't see the analogy.  I re-read your opening post and you wrote
Quote
I love debating on religious topics
which is fine, but you debate with agnostics/atheists.  And when they offend you, because you perceive that they insult God, you feel the need to defend the faith.  Is this correct?  An atheist insulting God makes no sense, because he doesn't believe in Him in the first place.  An agnostic insulting God doesn't even know if God is there; but if God does exist, the agnostic already has a bad view of Him.  So if a human insults my parents, that is bad; I understand that.  It would hurt me and my parents.  But a human insulting/blaspheming God Almighty?  He is Truth.  To me it seems that you are defending your offended state, rather than God.  If I am wrong, again, I apologize.
How can you not see the analogy, when I asked would you stay friends if someone was criticising God, you said you would. When I asked you would you stay friends who was criticising your family , you said you would not. God and your family are the closest to you, the loved ones. That's why I gave you this example and you have given me your answer.

Yes, that's correct if anyone wishes to talk about God,Im happy to debate whoever it is wishing to do so. And I take it personally when somebody criticises God because it is like criticising a loved one,but much worse. It's a natural defensive human instinct.
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« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2013, 07:07:41 PM »

I apologize, but I don't see the analogy.  I re-read your opening post and you wrote
Quote
I love debating on religious topics
which is fine, but you debate with agnostics/atheists.  And when they offend you, because you perceive that they insult God, you feel the need to defend the faith.  Is this correct?  An atheist insulting God makes no sense, because he doesn't believe in Him in the first place.  An agnostic insulting God doesn't even know if God is there; but if God does exist, the agnostic already has a bad view of Him.  So if a human insults my parents, that is bad; I understand that.  It would hurt me and my parents.  But a human insulting/blaspheming God Almighty?  He is Truth.  To me it seems that you are defending your offended state, rather than God.  If I am wrong, again, I apologize.
How can you not see the analogy, when I asked would you stay friends if someone was criticising God, you said you would. When I asked you would you stay friends who was criticising your family , you said you would not. God and your family are the closest to you, the loved ones. That's why I gave you this example and you have given me your answer.

Yes, that's correct if anyone wishes to talk about God,Im happy to debate whoever it is wishing to do so. And I take it personally when somebody criticises God because it is like criticising a loved one,but much worse. It's a natural defensive human instinct.
I'm sorry.  I don't see it.  If debating makes you happy and it glorifies God, sure.  If it only serves to make you happy (it doesn't seem to me, since you were posting on being offended) and that's all, then it would be good to ask oneself why and for what purpose.  Does the other party in your debate truly want to learn?  And are you willing to learn their position, even if they're wrong and offend you?

Going along with associating God with family:  what if it's your family criticizing your Faith?  What would be your position in this instance?
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« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2013, 07:42:06 PM »

Quote
Yes, that's correct if anyone wishes to talk about God,Im happy to debate whoever it is wishing to do so. And I take it personally when somebody criticises God because it is like criticising a loved one,but much worse. It's a natural defensive human instinct.
And that is why we must fight against the urge to do so.  We ought not live our spiritual life responding to natural human instinct.  We must fight against instinct and demonstrate love and humility toward our fellow man.  God is big enough to fight His own battles, we are called merely to be faithful to Him.  And by that, we ought to live our lives in charity towards others.  It is fine to have a discussion, but if you are both entrenched in your position, there is nothing to be said that will change him positively in your direction.  That is the job of the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2013, 05:15:06 AM »

Ok,I'm going to end this debate because I keep repeating my point over and iver again. We can keep going over the same thing days on end but if you don't see what l mean,that's fine.Ive said all I could have to explain myself.God bless:)
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« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2013, 05:54:20 AM »

Do you stop being their friend?
It can happen, depends if they purposely mock it all the time , then it is logical to go apart..
Maybe it's just me, but I am very selective who I call "friend."  I have debated and even fought with my friends, but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them.  Even if they told me that they hated God or that He doesn't exist, I would still try to love them as best I could through Christ.  Even a friendly debate with an atheist rarely changes anyone's mind or heart.
But isn't it betraying God to be friends with someone who hates God?

Only if God hates the one who hates him.
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« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2013, 05:55:13 AM »

I find that pronouncing an anathema upon them is usually the best way to proceed in situations like that.

You're joking right?
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« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2013, 06:03:18 AM »

Yet God remains God.  When I was a child riding the bus to school, the kid behind me (same age) kept insulting my mother.  This went on morning and afternoon for a week.  One morning, I got tired of it.  So I punched him in the face twice.  I was kicked off the bus for two days as punishment.  My mom didn't know what was said about her or even knew the other kid.  It did not change the fact that my mom was upset that she had to drive me to school for two days.  It also didn't change the fact that she loves me.  God will still love you whether you open your mouth to defend Him (He doesn't need it, BTW) or not.  He also loves that atheist more than you ever will.  He loves that boy that insulted my mom those many years ago.  

To end that, many months later that boy apologized to me and I forgave him.  I wonder if we would have been friends sooner if I had forgiven him sooner.

That's what exactly happened, as I was protecting Christianity and God and even though I kept my composure, he saw on my face I was quite offended.As a result of that, he did appologise that he had offended me, I of course forgave him.

 I was happy and felt better that I did not stand for those comments and managed to speak back, which I felt right and I'd do it again as I stand firmly for what I believe.

The fact of the matter is that he did not know that it is not me he should ask for forgiveness from but from our Heavenly Father. But I prayed for his forgiveness later as he has no knowledge of Truth.

The Heavenly Father is less merciful, understanding and forgiving than you?
what kind if question is that!Of course He is,but if they don't realise they need to ask for forgiveness from Him we should do it on their behalf like Jesus did

The way I see it this is more about you and your ego. You feel ur ego faith, philosophy,etc insulted when atheists disagree with your apologetics esspecially is they do it in a more decisive and rude manner.
Wrong.If they insulted me id not have been half offended as l was offended by the thing they said about our God and its quite natural to feel the way I felt and reacted to that because I've Faith.

Of course it is somewhere about you.. You also think you can forgive this people without saying sorry, and that somehow God cannot do that, because they will need first to ask pardon to them. Or that if they say things about you you don't get offended but if they say things about God, He does.


I just dont understand why you are trying to find a fault in me.

Im sorry but I do get offended when it comes to God,yes Im sensitive about it. If you dont then it is your choice.You obviously dont feel what I can feel.But that's ok, we are different people and Im not saying im better than you,just different.

All Im saying is that everyone feels different about God, when one insults someone very close to you and whom you love so much, you are bound, naturally, feel offended.

I don't understand why would anyone be offended by something that it is not true, esspecially in the case of God. In this case the offence is a lie. I think that through this you are revealing your insecurity towards the adressed points and insults, staying strucked incompetent to make a valid ethical point not so much to the one who adressed those points and insults but towards your own very self, and thus you get offended more because of your incompetence. Of course this is all about you and it is an ego problem.
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« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2013, 08:12:46 AM »

I find that pronouncing an anathema upon them is usually the best way to proceed in situations like that.

You're joking right?
Yes.  Grin

Sorry, should have added an emoticon.
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Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
andrewlya
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Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Christianity is not a religion,it is a relationship with God
Posts: 413


Christian all my life and is still learning


« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2013, 11:55:43 AM »

Yet God remains God.  When I was a child riding the bus to school, the kid behind me (same age) kept insulting my mother.  This went on morning and afternoon for a week.  One morning, I got tired of it.  So I punched him in the face twice.  I was kicked off the bus for two days as punishment.  My mom didn't know what was said about her or even knew the other kid.  It did not change the fact that my mom was upset that she had to drive me to school for two days.  It also didn't change the fact that she loves me.  God will still love you whether you open your mouth to defend Him (He doesn't need it, BTW) or not.  He also loves that atheist more than you ever will.  He loves that boy that insulted my mom those many years ago.  

To end that, many months later that boy apologized to me and I forgave him.  I wonder if we would have been friends sooner if I had forgiven him sooner.

That's what exactly happened, as I was protecting Christianity and God and even though I kept my composure, he saw on my face I was quite offended.As a result of that, he did appologise that he had offended me, I of course forgave him.

 I was happy and felt better that I did not stand for those comments and managed to speak back, which I felt right and I'd do it again as I stand firmly for what I believe.

The fact of the matter is that he did not know that it is not me he should ask for forgiveness from but from our Heavenly Father. But I prayed for his forgiveness later as he has no knowledge of Truth.

The Heavenly Father is less merciful, understanding and forgiving than you?
what kind if question is that!Of course He is,but if they don't realise they need to ask for forgiveness from Him we should do it on their behalf like Jesus did

The way I see it this is more about you and your ego. You feel ur ego faith, philosophy,etc insulted when atheists disagree with your apologetics esspecially is they do it in a more decisive and rude manner.
Wrong.If they insulted me id not have been half offended as l was offended by the thing they said about our God and its quite natural to feel the way I felt and reacted to that because I've Faith.

Of course it is somewhere about you.. You also think you can forgive this people without saying sorry, and that somehow God cannot do that, because they will need first to ask pardon to them. Or that if they say things about you you don't get offended but if they say things about God, He does.


I just dont understand why you are trying to find a fault in me.

Im sorry but I do get offended when it comes to God,yes Im sensitive about it. If you dont then it is your choice.You obviously dont feel what I can feel.But that's ok, we are different people and Im not saying im better than you,just different.

All Im saying is that everyone feels different about God, when one insults someone very close to you and whom you love so much, you are bound, naturally, feel offended.

I don't understand why would anyone be offended by something that it is not true, esspecially in the case of God. In this case the offence is a lie. I think that through this you are revealing your insecurity towards the adressed points and insults, staying strucked incompetent to make a valid ethical point not so much to the one who adressed those points and insults but towards your own very self, and thus you get offended more because of your incompetence. Of course this is all about you and it is an ego problem.
You come across as judgemental and you should not judge me or call me incompetent as you don't know me at all,all the best to you.
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I believe in one God the Father and His Son the Messiah, the Savior of all the people
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