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Question: Will you try (Ayrag aka Kumis)?
Enthusiastic Yes! - 5 (38.5%)
Not on your life - 2 (15.4%)
Tell me of this mystic drink - 6 (46.2%)
Total Voters: 13

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Author Topic: Caballine Nectar  (Read 3087 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2013, 03:55:44 PM »

Here's a clean version and sort of summary of what I would say:

Line 1 - It is not an ordinary horizon, but an endless one--one like you have never experienced, or have even imagined. Horizon here symbolizes something terribly beautiful, wide open, and awe-inspiring, but at the same time something that makes you feel utterly vulnerable from how exposed and unworthy you are standing before it. Yet, ready or not, here the horizons comes towards you ("coming forth")...

Line 2 - It is now sensed that it is a woman that is being spoken of. The beauty that you have tried to understand it now shown to be a valley between her breasts ("mountains"). It is important that it is not that which we sexualize (the breasts themselves) that are beautiful and remarkable; or not them alone, anyway. But this is perhaps still too literal. What does this mean, that the valley is more beautiful than the mountains? Perhaps that the bare middle of the chest, in its innocence, in its non-sensationalistic and non-overly-sexualized element, represents what is truly the center of the sexual act, the beautiful part, and what makes it truly enjoyable? Perhaps then it is not merely those things with which we sell porn using, and tell vulgar jokes about, that we should glorify, but the whole person? We are sexual beings, not sexual parts.

Line 3 - [I'll tread lightly here...]  Verdure ("Verdant") has very specific connotations for me, used as it is in Orthodox prayers about heaven and the afterlife, "where there is no sickness, sighing, etc." It is a word I now completely associate with life and joy and beauty. And if you take the word in that way, and think about the female body, below the breasts, when speaking of sexuality, well that's obviously [the female naughty lovely bits]. The azure above is perhaps a bit more difficult for my fictional (but completely sincere) interpretation, but off the top of my head I would say a pretty face, a royal face (regal colors), something that reminds you of a beautiful blue sky.

Line 4 - This could have several meanings, or rather does have several and many more I haven't thought of. (not that I have any clue what the original author truly meant) First, the beauty and awesome nature of it is enough to make you die, not literally, but in the same way that we speak of "spiritual deaths," that is to say, in a symbolic way. People are said to die from loneliness or heartbreak, but here the person dies a symbolic death from an overabundance of joy or love or beauty. He romanticizes (perhaps fairly, perhaps not) the past, when things were not so sexualized, when images and talk of sexuality had not yet permeated our culture, when there was a sense of the sacred, not simply of religious and divine things, but sacred in the sense that some things were better experienced than discussed in the open for all to hear. Perhaps he (I assume it is a he) thinks that this thing he is experiencing is what it might have been like in ancient times, before porn and dirty magazines and racy books and such began to prosper. We know that the ancients could be just as interested in that stuff, e.g. there was sexual graffiti and images on the walls of Pompeii, but would such over-sexualization have existed in most Christian cultures? Probably not. So like a spiritual warrior, defending the sacred and abiding by it, this fellow is getting to experience that which gives him an abundance of true contentment and pleasure, and maybe a glimmer of that beauty and awe that he had long hoped to experience and understand. That it took the form of a woman, with a discussion of sexuality--well why should that strike us as a strange thing? What is more beautiful or lovely?

(This turned out to be longer than I thought. And I was able to keep it cleaner than I thought I would be able to  angel )

EDIT--I hope I haven't done any harm here. I mean the above seriously, with sincerity, even if it shows me to be a bit odd. As I said, I do not know what the intended meaning was, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't close to my interpretation  angel I suppose many (most? all?) interpretations say more about the interpreters than they do the original material...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:03:34 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2013, 04:10:02 PM »

Open sky and trampling hooves,
O, this precious life of mine;
For the eternal curse of thirst,
Caballine nectar is divine


But the question remains...

What is best in life?


The Divine Life; or life Imbued with spiritual energies

(ie) Experience of the divine life (All previous lives add to the current experience) ...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:11:25 PM by WPM » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2013, 05:04:03 PM »

The never-ending wonder of literary criticism.  It is vast!  Seriously, thank you.  Interpretation is subjective, but educational in the sense that although my interpretation was more literal, your interpretation lends more to the imagination.  And if you think yourself odd, then I'm odd too. Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2013, 05:38:27 PM »

Open sky and trampling hooves,
O, this precious life of mine;
For the eternal curse of thirst,
Caballine nectar is divine


But the question remains...

What is best in life?


The Divine Life; or life Imbued with spiritual energies

(ie) Experience of the divine life (All previous lives add to the current experience) ...
Lol, wut?  That's not what Conan said.
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2013, 09:55:19 PM »

The never-ending wonder of literary criticism.  It is vast!  Seriously, thank you.  Interpretation is subjective, but educational in the sense that although my interpretation was more literal, your interpretation lends more to the imagination.  And if you think yourself odd, then I'm odd too. Smiley

Do you wanna post yours, or do you fear what the soulless minions of orthodoxy 'round these parts would do to you?  angel
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« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2013, 09:58:45 PM »

Open sky and trampling hooves,
O, this precious life of mine;
For the eternal curse of thirst,
Caballine nectar is divine




Ha, soulless minions of orthodoxy were the impetus for this poem containing the phrase "caballine nectar."  Upon writing it, I wanted to convey a bit of sublimity.  I feel that we can only taste the sublime when we recognize that, as humans, we are very small.  So, to critique:

L1:  Open sky implies clarity and a full field of vision, something one is hard-pressed to find in an urban area.  In a way, it's a very optimistic view of what is ahead.  Trampling hooves does not indicate if there is merely one horse or many; one rider or a band.  It doesn't tell us if this(these) particular rider(s) are good or evil.  Optimistically, we hope good.  Realistically, we have no idea.  There is the unknown.
L2: This line would indicate that the speaker values his life.  Again, the unknown; we don't know why his life is precious or if it's just his life or all lives.  But I think the speaker recognizes his mortality, hence -
L3: thirst.  This is something all  humanity can recognize.  Our bodies can only bear this suffering for so long before death.  For some, death is the end of it all.  So why "eternal"?  The speaker recognizes that he knows there is more beyond his "precious life" of his.  Perhaps he fears that he will thirst in the beyond as well.
L4: Considering L1, we can assume that the speaker is the rider is the thirsty man.  To him, caballine or equine qualities can mean strength, hard work, and adventure rather than the slavish attitude of a draft horse.  If we take the phrase "caballine nectar" in its original intent as a funny name for Airag/kumis/fermented mare's milk, then we can assume this rider from anywhere throughout Central Asia/Mongolia and is part of the horse culture.  But let's keep it a mystery, as a man with no country and in no specific time to add to the endless unknown.  Nectar can be what makes life for the speaker to cure him of the eternal thirst.  Thirst for what?  For the divine.  So does he seek a god like him or does he seek God that made him?

I find it disheartening that 9.1% of the world's population (according the highly scientific poll) will not try caballine nectar.  That means 653,135,879.305 people in the world do not want to try this at all. Cry
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 10:04:34 PM by hecma925 » Logged

J Michael
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« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2013, 01:00:00 PM »

Here's a clean version and sort of summary of what I would say:

Line 1 - It is not an ordinary horizon, but an endless one--one like you have never experienced, or have even imagined. Horizon here symbolizes something terribly beautiful, wide open, and awe-inspiring, but at the same time something that makes you feel utterly vulnerable from how exposed and unworthy you are standing before it. Yet, ready or not, here the horizons comes towards you ("coming forth")...

Line 2 - It is now sensed that it is a woman that is being spoken of. The beauty that you have tried to understand it now shown to be a valley between her breasts ("mountains"). It is important that it is not that which we sexualize (the breasts themselves) that are beautiful and remarkable; or not them alone, anyway. But this is perhaps still too literal. What does this mean, that the valley is more beautiful than the mountains? Perhaps that the bare middle of the chest, in its innocence, in its non-sensationalistic and non-overly-sexualized element, represents what is truly the center of the sexual act, the beautiful part, and what makes it truly enjoyable? Perhaps then it is not merely those things with which we sell porn using, and tell vulgar jokes about, that we should glorify, but the whole person? We are sexual beings, not sexual parts.

Line 3 - [I'll tread lightly here...]  Verdure ("Verdant") has very specific connotations for me, used as it is in Orthodox prayers about heaven and the afterlife, "where there is no sickness, sighing, etc." It is a word I now completely associate with life and joy and beauty. And if you take the word in that way, and think about the female body, below the breasts, when speaking of sexuality, well that's obviously [the female naughty lovely bits]. The azure above is perhaps a bit more difficult for my fictional (but completely sincere) interpretation, but off the top of my head I would say a pretty face, a royal face (regal colors), something that reminds you of a beautiful blue sky.

Line 4 - This could have several meanings, or rather does have several and many more I haven't thought of. (not that I have any clue what the original author truly meant) First, the beauty and awesome nature of it is enough to make you die, not literally, but in the same way that we speak of "spiritual deaths," that is to say, in a symbolic way. People are said to die from loneliness or heartbreak, but here the person dies a symbolic death from an overabundance of joy or love or beauty. He romanticizes (perhaps fairly, perhaps not) the past, when things were not so sexualized, when images and talk of sexuality had not yet permeated our culture, when there was a sense of the sacred, not simply of religious and divine things, but sacred in the sense that some things were better experienced than discussed in the open for all to hear. Perhaps he (I assume it is a he) thinks that this thing he is experiencing is what it might have been like in ancient times, before porn and dirty magazines and racy books and such began to prosper. We know that the ancients could be just as interested in that stuff, e.g. there was sexual graffiti and images on the walls of Pompeii, but would such over-sexualization have existed in most Christian cultures? Probably not. So like a spiritual warrior, defending the sacred and abiding by it, this fellow is getting to experience that which gives him an abundance of true contentment and pleasure, and maybe a glimmer of that beauty and awe that he had long hoped to experience and understand. That it took the form of a woman, with a discussion of sexuality--well why should that strike us as a strange thing? What is more beautiful or lovely?

(This turned out to be longer than I thought. And I was able to keep it cleaner than I thought I would be able to  angel )

EDIT--I hope I haven't done any harm here. I mean the above seriously, with sincerity, even if it shows me to be a bit odd. As I said, I do not know what the intended meaning was, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't close to my interpretation  angel I suppose many (most? all?) interpretations say more about the interpreters than they do the original material...

You, a bit odd? Shocked  Never!! Grin
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« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2013, 02:21:48 PM »

Thus saith the master:
I seriously doubt that we have exhausted the well of discussion of Caballine Nectar.  It is time.

Onward, harrowed foot-soldiers!  Caballine nectar awaits!

On a lighter note, why is airag not more readily available?  Does fermented milk just weird Western folks out? 
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« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2013, 02:28:13 PM »

Thus saith the master:
I seriously doubt that we have exhausted the well of discussion of Caballine Nectar.  It is time.

Onward, harrowed foot-soldiers!  Caballine nectar awaits!

On a lighter note, why is airag not more readily available?  Does fermented milk just weird Western folks out? 

May God bless you, my Orthodox brother, with mightily abundant supplies of the finest and freshest caballine nectar!  I do believe the concept of fermented milk does weird out our Western brethren.  I fail to see why, however, as much else that they consume is a product of the fermentation process.  Perhaps it has something to do with it being of caballine origin.
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
hecma925
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« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2013, 02:36:56 PM »

I would agree.  I bet if it were commercially viable, it would be done.  Dairy farms hook cows up to miling machines.  Mares need to be milked more often.  There has to be an easier way!  Well, here in the states, anyway, people are weirded about eating horsemeat.  That shouldn't be.  Note exhibit A:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,53263.msg986124.html#msg986124

I just don't think it's fair that I have to go all the way to Central Asia (quite expensive to get there) for some.
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J Michael
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« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2013, 02:48:40 PM »

I would agree.  I bet if it were commercially viable, it would be done.  Dairy farms hook cows up to miling machines.  Mares need to be milked more often.  There has to be an easier way!  Well, here in the states, anyway, people are weirded about eating horsemeat.  That shouldn't be.  Note exhibit A:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,53263.msg986124.html#msg986124

I just don't think it's fair that I have to go all the way to Central Asia (quite expensive to get there) for some.

Might I suggest a joint business venture?
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
J Michael
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« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2013, 03:30:57 PM »

I would agree.  I bet if it were commercially viable, it would be done.  Dairy farms hook cows up to miling machines.  Mares need to be milked more often.  There has to be an easier way!  Well, here in the states, anyway, people are weirded about eating horsemeat.  That shouldn't be.  Note exhibit A:  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,53263.msg986124.html#msg986124

I just don't think it's fair that I have to go all the way to Central Asia (quite expensive to get there) for some.

You may also want to check this out: http://www.horsemilk.org/  They will mail you powdered milk, but....hey...I know...just not the same. Sad
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
hecma925
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« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2013, 04:25:13 PM »

No, it won't be the same.  I drank powdered milk a lot before, because you can have milk on-demand rather than go to the fridge and find out the gallon you bought is now bad.  But this is reassuring from the website:
Quote
horse milk can be preserved in a powdered form through drying technology, by the fact that its nutritional value has barely modified before and after drying.

Maybe something to look into, but it is 80 euro per kilo. Undecided
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J Michael
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« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2013, 04:30:27 PM »

No, it won't be the same.  I drank powdered milk a lot before, because you can have milk on-demand rather than go to the fridge and find out the gallon you bought is now bad.  But this is reassuring from the website:
Quote
horse milk can be preserved in a powdered form through drying technology, by the fact that its nutritional value has barely modified before and after drying.

Maybe something to look into, but it is 80 euro per kilo. Undecided

I know, but...what's the price of a return flight to Mongolia these days??
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
hecma925
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Pray for me, a sinner.


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« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2013, 04:40:56 PM »

If I were to leave tomorrow, a round-trip ticket from LAX for a week would cost $1467.  No lie.  Not including visa, taxes, and all that jazz.  I wonder how much shipping is.
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