Author Topic: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)  (Read 3622 times)

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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« on: August 29, 2013, 06:10:31 PM »
As you all know, on the New Calendar, we have the Church New Year on Sunday. Some of you also know that I assist a small chapel where we conduct readers' services during the week, though generally attend a parish on Sundays and try to make major feasts (we live a bit away from our parish, and so we're unable to attend when feasts fall during the week, but can attend our local readers' services). I've been trying to find out what liturgical color is traditionally used for Indiction, but I can't find any information that's so detailed. So, what does your church use?

We're OCA, but I can't remember the color we used last year at the parish, and we didn't serve this feast at our chapel last year. The Slavic tradition for this color is what I'd most like to know (trying to match our parish colors), but I'd also be interested to know other traditions, if they exist, or even variations within Slavic practice. Thanks!
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 06:14:55 PM »
According to OrthodoxWiki, gold is used when no other colour is specified, while Carpatho-Russian practice stipulates blue until the Elevation of the Cross.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Liturgical_colours
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 06:24:44 PM »
According to OrthodoxWiki, gold is used when no other colour is specified, while Carpatho-Russian practice stipulates blue until the Elevation of the Cross.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Liturgical_colours

Right. I'm just wondering if there is another specified color, and will use that one. If there isn't, I'll default to gold.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 06:25:46 PM »
huh who cares about this?anyways, fwiw, in romania they used the colors almost randomly, except for maybe easter or burials. but the indiction, seriously, this is not a feast in most (like 99. 99 %) parishes.

Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 06:35:30 PM »
huh who cares about this?anyways, fwiw, in romania they used the colors almost randomly, except for maybe easter or burials. but the indiction, seriously, this is not a feast in most (like 99. 99 %) parishes.

I do. I never understood why you comment when you have nothing to say...
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy

Offline augustin717

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 06:39:01 PM »
But you realize this is only celebrated in places like cathedrals and monasteries where they have daily services.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 07:23:09 PM »
But you realize this is only celebrated in places like cathedrals and monasteries where they have daily services.
No, I've been to several parishes where they did not have daily services, but had this service.
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 11:09:04 PM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).

Gold is the traditional color for the Feast of the Indiction.
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 11:10:10 PM »
But you realize this is only celebrated in places like cathedrals and monasteries where they have daily services.

It falls on a Sunday this year, so it should be celebrated in every parish on the Revised Julian Calendar.
Joseph

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 11:47:13 PM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).
Traditionally creation began on that day.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline augustin717

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 11:55:19 PM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).
Traditionally creation began on that day.
on the old or on the new calendar?

Offline Romaios

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 12:07:11 AM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).
Traditionally creation began on that day.
on the old or on the new calendar?

The Jewish - on Rosh hashana = 1 Tishri, 5773 years ago.  :)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:11:47 AM by Romaios »

Offline mildert

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2013, 07:07:48 AM »
We'll be in Gold.
In XC,

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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 07:58:37 AM »
huh who cares about this?anyways, fwiw, in romania they used the colors almost randomly, except for maybe easter or burials. but the indiction, seriously, this is not a feast in most (like 99. 99 %) parishes.

I do. I never understood why you comment when you have nothing to say...

Because if augustin isn't stirring up controversy, he's bored and has no meaning in his life.  Look up curmudgeon in the dictionary, you'll find his pic.
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2013, 08:01:27 AM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).
Traditionally creation began on that day.

I thought that was the day when Christ began his ministry when he took his turn to read from the Prophecy of Isaiah and then announced that it had been fulfilled. 

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2013, 10:10:25 AM »
huh who cares about this?anyways, fwiw, in romania they used the colors almost randomly, except for maybe easter or burials. but the indiction, seriously, this is not a feast in most (like 99. 99 %) parishes.

I do. I never understood why you comment when you have nothing to say...

Because if augustin isn't stirring up controversy, he's bored and has no meaning in his life.  Look up curmudgeon in the dictionary, you'll find his pic.

There are also leftist parades to attend.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2013, 10:26:47 AM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).
Traditionally creation began on that day.

I thought that was the day when Christ began his ministry when he took his turn to read from the Prophecy of Isaiah and then announced that it had been fulfilled. 


That too.

I also seem to remember reading a Synaxarion which said that the Israelites entered the Holy Land, but that doesn't seem to square with Scripture.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2013, 10:27:46 AM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).
Traditionally creation began on that day.
on the old or on the new calendar?

The Jewish - on Rosh hashana = 1 Tishri, 5773 years ago.  :)
IOW the really old calendar.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2013, 12:59:59 PM »
 I would do gold,because the Beheading of St. John the Baptist is a one-day feast/fast, unless the Bishop visits a parish with St. John the Baptist as their patron. In that case, the colour would be red (martyrs).

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2013, 03:44:24 PM »
huh who cares about this?anyways, fwiw, in romania they used the colors almost randomly, except for maybe easter or burials. but the indiction, seriously, this is not a feast in most (like 99. 99 %) parishes.

I do. I never understood why you comment when you have nothing to say...

Because if augustin isn't stirring up controversy, he's bored and has no meaning in his life.  Look up curmudgeon in the dictionary, you'll find his pic.

There are also leftist parades to attend.

You mean like this one:
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2013, 04:32:18 PM »
Thanks to all. Gold it shall be!
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2013, 04:37:29 PM »
Why do you ask? Isn't that a priest's thing to know?

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2013, 04:47:29 PM »
Why do you ask? Isn't that a priest's thing to know?
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2013, 09:27:32 PM »
I would do gold,because the Beheading of St. John the Baptist is a one-day feast/fast, unless the Bishop visits a parish with St. John the Baptist as their patron. In that case, the colour would be red (martyrs).

Green could also be used for feasts of St John the Baptist, as he was a prophet. As well as for Palm Sunday and Pentecost, green can also be used for prophets and holy fools.
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2013, 10:00:51 PM »
At Orthros, does this feast call for the  polyeleos to be chanted in place of the Amomos?  The Arabic typicon says no, but the Greek typicon says yes.  I don't really care about the Russians.  WHich is correct?
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2013, 11:05:09 PM »
At Orthros, does this feast call for the  polyeleos to be chanted in place of the Amomos?  The Arabic typicon says no, but the Greek typicon says yes.  I don't really care about the Russians.  WHich is correct?

http://www.ecclesia.gr/tipikon/2013/9.pdf

If I'm reading the Greek here correctly, it agrees with the Arabic.  But don't take my word for it.     
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2013, 02:48:44 AM »
At Orthros, does this feast call for the  polyeleos to be chanted in place of the Amomos?  The Arabic typicon says no, but the Greek typicon says yes.  I don't really care about the Russians.  WHich is correct?

http://www.ecclesia.gr/tipikon/2013/9.pdf

If I'm reading the Greek here correctly, it agrees with the Arabic.  But don't take my word for it.     

No Polyeleos according to the Romanian typikon either.

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2013, 08:55:18 AM »
At Orthros, does this feast call for the  polyeleos to be chanted in place of the Amomos?  The Arabic typicon says no, but the Greek typicon says yes.  I don't really care about the Russians.  WHich is correct?

Which Greek Typikon are you using? My guess is the Church of Greece Typikon will agree with the Arabic, and the Church of Constantinople is telling you yes on the Polyeleos because of the additions of the environmental hymns. 
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2013, 11:03:59 AM »
...and the Church of Constantinople is telling you yes on the Polyeleos because of the additions of the environmental hymns

Hippies.  :P
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2013, 02:25:42 PM »
At Orthros, does this feast call for the  polyeleos to be chanted in place of the Amomos?  The Arabic typicon says no, but the Greek typicon says yes.  I don't really care about the Russians.  WHich is correct?

Which Greek Typikon are you using? My guess is the Church of Greece Typikon will agree with the Arabic, and the Church of Constantinople is telling you yes on the Polyeleos because of the additions of the environmental hymns. 

The Greek Typicon I look at says that between the 2nd and 3rd poetic kathismata, the polyeleos is to be chanted.

I got my information here: http://analogion.gr/glt/texts/Sep/01.uni.htm
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2013, 03:39:02 PM »
The Greek Typicon I look at says that between the 2nd and 3rd poetic kathismata, the polyeleos is to be chanted.

I got my information here: http://analogion.gr/glt/texts/Sep/01.uni.htm

Is it possible that 1 Sept this year being a Sunday has anything to do with it?  

Edit

Or perhaps this?

Quote
The present Menaion gives a Polyeleos and Gospel for Matins, but this is modern, and the texts used as Kathisma and Idiomel are used elsewhere in the office. The Typikon of Dionysiou makes no mention of this addition, nor, in fact, does the Typikon printed in the Menaion. This section has therefore been printed within square brackets.

...

If the 1st of September falls on a Sunday, the Typikon is as follows. [The off ice of the Holy Women is omitted, or read at Compline.]

...

At Matins, at The Lord is God, Apolytkia as at Vespers, except that the Resurrection one is sung twice. The Resurrection Kathismata and that of the Indiction O God who grant fruitful seasons twice. [That is, it replaces the Theotokion each time.] After Psalm 118, the Evlogitaria, the Ypakoï, the Anavathmi of the Tone and the Prokeimenon...

http://www.anastasis.org.uk/sep01ml.htm
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 03:42:48 PM by Mor Ephrem »
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2013, 04:46:17 PM »
But you realize this is only celebrated in places like cathedrals and monasteries where they have daily services.
No, I've been to several parishes where they did not have daily services, but had this service.

Well, if you don'd celebrate daily services, you have to pick the days on which you'll have services, and the ecclesiastical new year with its extra prayers seems appropriate.
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2013, 04:48:46 PM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).

Gold is the traditional color for the Feast of the Indiction.

Were additions made to the liturgical texts? Were new ones added to the old? Were the old tossed? Do you have some translations and examples? I'm curious. Also, is it just in the Phanar that this is done?
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2013, 04:50:19 PM »
The current practice in the Ecumenical Patriarchate is green because the text now include hymns for the environment. This of course is a very recent addition (within the last 15 years).
Traditionally creation began on that day.
on the old or on the new calendar?

The Jewish - on Rosh hashana = 1 Tishri, 5773 years ago.  :)
IOW the really old calendar.

Still off by about 200 years.
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2013, 04:53:16 PM »
At Orthros, does this feast call for the  polyeleos to be chanted in place of the Amomos?  The Arabic typicon says no, but the Greek typicon says yes.  I don't really care about the Russians.  WHich is correct?

The correct one is for whatever church you're in. There have always been differences in typicon.
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2013, 04:59:22 PM »
Were additions made to the liturgical texts? Were new ones added to the old? Were the old tossed? Do you have some translations and examples? I'm curious. Also, is it just in the Phanar that this is done?

http://www.anastasis.org.uk/environm.htm
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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2013, 04:59:42 PM »
On September 1, we commemorate the martyric death of Reader Xenophon, whose head exploded as he contemplated the hierarchies of feasts, the proper colors of vestments, and the intricacies of the typikon. In most places, his memory is superseded by the feast of the Indiction, but in places where his memory is especially venerated, his service is chanted a while banging one's head on the wall as a sign of contrition and humility.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2013, 05:00:14 PM »
Were additions made to the liturgical texts? Were new ones added to the old? Were the old tossed? Do you have some translations and examples? I'm curious. Also, is it just in the Phanar that this is done?

http://www.anastasis.org.uk/environm.htm

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Offline dcommini

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2013, 06:02:01 PM »
On September 1, we commemorate the martyric death of Reader Xenophon, whose head exploded as he contemplated the hierarchies of feasts, the proper colors of vestments, and the intricacies of the typikon. In most places, his memory is superseded by the feast of the Indiction, but in places where his memory is especially venerated, his service is chanted a while banging one's head on the wall as a sign of contrition and humility.

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Offline LBK

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2013, 11:07:58 PM »
On September 1, we commemorate the martyric death of Reader Xenophon, whose head exploded as he contemplated the hierarchies of feasts, the proper colors of vestments, and the intricacies of the typikon. In most places, his memory is superseded by the feast of the Indiction, but in places where his memory is especially venerated, his service is chanted a while banging one's head on the wall as a sign of contrition and humility.

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2013, 04:13:07 PM »
huh who cares about this?anyways, fwiw, in romania they used the colors almost randomly, except for maybe easter or burials. but the indiction, seriously, this is not a feast in most (like 99. 99 %) parishes.

I do. I never understood why you comment when you have nothing to say...

Because if augustin isn't stirring up controversy, he's bored and has no meaning in his life.  Look up curmudgeon in the dictionary, you'll find his pic.

There are also leftist parades to attend.

You mean like this one:


Yes.  Incidentally, yikes, 1984.  The writing was on the wall.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2013, 10:44:16 PM »
Why do you ask? Isn't that a priest's thing to know?

Generally, yes. However, there are a few of us Orthodox where I live, but too small right now for a mission. We have a blessing to conduct readers services and have a room set aside that functions as a kind of chapel. Icons on the walls, holy water and oil, liturgical books and three analoi for Christ, the Theotokos and the festal icon. We have church vestments for those analoi and use them accordingly, so I wanted to know if I should change them for this feast, which we served the Vigil for since it was on Sunday. That's all.

I'm also rather nerdy, and the little ins-and-outs of liturgics are interesting to me. Before I was Orthodox, I was Presbyerian and just as nerdy about scholasticism and systematic theology.
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Offline mike

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2013, 03:49:15 PM »
And at my church New Year was ignored. We had regular 10th Sunday (or 9th, not sure which one was that).

Offline augustin717

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2013, 04:09:55 PM »
And at my church New Year was ignored. We had regular 10th Sunday (or 9th, not sure which one was that).
I bet it was the same in more than 90% of churches.  I all bet the church ny was a big deal in more than 90% of places where they hsve reader services or otherwise small like minded congregations.

Offline arimethea

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Re: Liturgical Color for Indiction (Church New Year)
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2013, 04:17:58 PM »
And at my church New Year was ignored. We had regular 10th Sunday (or 9th, not sure which one was that).

Is not your church on the Old Calendar? September 1st isn't for 6 more days then.
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