Author Topic: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?  (Read 17321 times)

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Offline Феофан

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persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« on: August 29, 2013, 11:54:41 AM »
For 20 years I've continued to see a classic kundalini symtom called the "blue pearl" ... "A brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, which appears to the meditator whose energy has been awakened." (http://www.cit-sakti.com/resources/kundalini-glossary.htm)  What's it like?  It's exactly like when a red laser light hits your retina except it's blue.  It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.

I thought it would go away with baptism but it didn't. It doesn't bother me except perhaps it does distract me as it's impossible (for me) to ignore.  I've read demons occasionally appear as light to steal the benefit we might otherwise obtain by just such distraction.  This is plausible because it does usually appear toward the end of some spiritual contemplation - kind of like an exclamation point - but lasting no longer than a second or two.

I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?

p.s.

Why call it a "demon"?  because this blue light was specifically mentioned as such by Fr. Seraphim Rose somewhere in "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future".  I'm not saying that proves anything, it just makes me wonder is all ...
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Offline jah777

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 11:56:15 AM »
You need to speak with an experienced and discerning spiritual father about this. 

Offline IoanC

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 12:02:29 PM »
Has it ever been gone for longer periods of time? Does it appear rather irregularly?

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 12:14:05 PM »
You need to speak with an experienced and discerning spiritual father about this. 

sigh... if only I could

Are you saying only a discerning spiritual father would know the answer or "that lump is malignant and it needs to come out now!"
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 12:19:48 PM »
Has it ever been gone for longer periods of time? Does it appear rather irregularly?

Yes, one time I had a highly paid contract job in a very corporate setting for several months and the blue light basically disappeared.  I characterized my spiritual state during that time as very low or worldly (not that I'm suggesting anything good about this light - I'm just saying that's what I recall thinking at the time).

Lately I see it maybe 1 to 5 times a day, maybe some days not at all.  I don't actually count.
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Offline IoanC

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 12:27:34 PM »
Has it ever been gone for longer periods of time? Does it appear rather irregularly?

Yes, one time I had a highly paid contract job in a very corporate setting for several months and the blue light basically disappeared.  I characterized my spiritual state during that time as very low or worldly (not that I'm suggesting anything good about this light - I'm just saying that's what I recall thinking at the time).

Lately I see it maybe 1 to 5 times a day, maybe some days not at all.  I don't actually count.

I believe it's a very minor and rather common type of demonic assault. Don't give it any attention when it happens. We should aim for our attention always being given to God who is always with us.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 12:27:54 PM by IoanC »

Offline WPM

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 12:29:13 PM »
Because of its reference in the Gospels, the use of the word "demon" is commonplace. Even when you don't know what it is. Could be "phenomena" ...
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 12:31:15 PM by WPM »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 12:37:14 PM »
I have no idea, but perhaps it is a neutral/ benign phenomenon which has been misinterpreted by the gurus.
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 12:41:10 PM »
I believe it's a very minor and rather common type of demonic assault. Don't give it any attention when it happens. We should aim for our attention always being given to God who is always with us.

ahh...  I feel relieved.  During all this time I never really knew for sure what to make of it so I never really did make anything of it - now it just seems odd but basically meaningless (to me).  Other people have big ideas about it but I could never really see why.

I like to think my guardian angel has been smacking the demon down all these years before he ever got a chance to get a good burn in!   :angel:   May God protect us all.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 12:49:09 PM by Феофан »
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Offline IoanC

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 01:10:03 PM »
I don't believe it is a phenomena, nor that it's necessarily untrue that it has to do with kundalini (which can actually cause some spiritual things).

I would look at it as a demonic assault. Knowing that the guardian angel is there to keep things under control is definitely helpful.

Offline biro

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 01:15:10 PM »
I think the safest thing to do is to let a priest know.
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Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2013, 01:23:43 PM »
Quote
I don't believe it is a phenomena, nor that it's necessarily untrue that it has to do with kundalini (which can actually cause some spiritual things).

HOW could you possibly know? Apart from blogging, what are your credentials to state the above as a fact?

Offline biro

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2013, 01:32:02 PM »
Pardon, but isn't kundalini associated with Hinduism? I have to ask, could the OP not just drop any interest in Hinduism and maybe it'll go away? My Mom used to tell me not to scratch bug bites, after all.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2013, 01:46:55 PM »
I think the safest thing to do is to let a priest know.

Also, has the OP consulted a physician? 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2013, 02:01:23 PM »
I think the safest thing to do is to let a priest know.

Also, has the OP consulted a physician? 
This is where I would start. No use worrying about demonic activity and all if it turns out that you just have some pressure on your optic nerve.
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2013, 03:37:45 PM »
OP here...

@biro - I'm not trying to see this thing - it just happens. I'm not interested in Hinduism - this is not self-induced in any way I'm aware of.

@trisagion & @mor - No I haven't seen a physician - in this country you get about 2 minutes with a doctor and if you aren't dieing you don't get much more than that.  I recently paid to see an optometrist however (for new glasses) and she said the inside of my eyes are fine.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2013, 04:02:38 PM »
@trisagion & @mor - No I haven't seen a physician - in this country you get about 2 minutes with a doctor and if you aren't dieing you don't get much more than that.  I recently paid to see an optometrist however (for new glasses) and she said the inside of my eyes are fine.



My sympathies for your country's inferior health system.  But still, that's no excuse not to exhaust the medical possibilities before assuming the demonic.  Better safe than sorry.
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2013, 04:48:46 PM »
My sympathies for your country's inferior health system.  But still, that's no excuse not to exhaust the medical possibilities before assuming the demonic.  Better safe than sorry.

"kundalini" phenomena are fairly well known and there is no medical explanation.  You can look it up if you like.  I don't assume it's demonic.  I don't know what it is - just what other people say but I don't necessarily believe them.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2013, 05:20:19 PM »
"kundalini" phenomena are fairly well known and there is no medical explanation.  You can look it up if you like. 

No need.  I'm Indian, I've heard of it. 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2013, 06:32:52 PM »
"kundalini" phenomena are fairly well known and there is no medical explanation.  You can look it up if you like. 

No need.  I'm Indian, I've heard of it. 

Oh OK.. are you familiar with Ravi Zacharias by any chance?  He had some interesting things to say about the western appetite for Indian "spirituality" in his book  "Why Jesus? Rediscovering His Truth in An Age of Mass Marketed Spirituality".  He also has a ton of video on YouTube ... just protestant but good for all that (I think).

Anyway... thanks again for your concern and my apologies for hijacking my own thread!   ;)
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2013, 06:47:33 PM »
I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?
The 'blue pearl' is a phenomenon that arises due to basic human spiritual physiology. It is essentially no different from various siddhis (such as clairvoyance) that result from yogic practice. Just notice it's there, and pay no further attention to it.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 07:29:18 PM »
Oh OK.. are you familiar with Ravi Zacharias by any chance?  He had some interesting things to say about the western appetite for Indian "spirituality" in his book  "Why Jesus? Rediscovering His Truth in An Age of Mass Marketed Spirituality".  He also has a ton of video on YouTube ... just protestant but good for all that (I think).

Generally I avoid Protestant televangelists, preachers, apologists, etc., but I find that I like Ravi Zacharias when I hear him on the radio.  Not enough to become a groupie, but I find him acceptable for a Protestant. 

I'd be interested to hear his opinion on the Western interest in Indian spirituality.  I have my own ideas, but he'd probably express himself more elegantly on that matter than I would.  ;)
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2013, 09:31:31 PM »
"kundalini" phenomena are fairly well known and there is no medical explanation.  You can look it up if you like. 

No need.  I'm Indian, I've heard of it. 

I think I've eaten it.  ;D
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2013, 09:32:34 PM »
Oh OK.. are you familiar with Ravi Zacharias by any chance?  He had some interesting things to say about the western appetite for Indian "spirituality" in his book  "Why Jesus? Rediscovering His Truth in An Age of Mass Marketed Spirituality".  He also has a ton of video on YouTube ... just protestant but good for all that (I think).

Generally I avoid Protestant televangelists, preachers, apologists, etc., but I find that I like Ravi Zacharias when I hear him on the radio.  Not enough to become a groupie, but I find him acceptable for a Protestant. 

I'd be interested to hear his opinion on the Western interest in Indian spirituality.  I have my own ideas, but he'd probably express himself more elegantly on that matter than I would.  ;)

This explains why I misread "persistent" as "Protestant" in the threat title!
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Offline IoanC

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2013, 11:52:00 PM »
Quote
I don't believe it is a phenomena, nor that it's necessarily untrue that it has to do with kundalini (which can actually cause some spiritual things).

HOW could you possibly know? Apart from blogging, what are your credentials to state the above as a fact?

You know better than to think I honor such questions, especially ever since you started investigating and attacking me on a personal level. (it's ok to stop this, it won't get you anywhere as you have noticed).
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 11:55:50 PM by IoanC »

Offline IoanC

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2013, 01:22:16 AM »
I don't know what it is - just what other people say but I don't necessarily believe them.

And nothing else matters... :)

Offline Tallitot

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2013, 03:02:03 AM »
Have you seen an opthamologist?
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2013, 04:11:17 AM »
Make the sign of the Cross and say prayers to St. Michael the Archangel. I have no idea what this is, and I am not qualified to speculate. My humble opinion (and I'm just a sinful layman) is that you should not concern yourself with whether or not this is demonic. Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't. Either way, God is allowing you to experience this strange unpleasantness. What comes to mind is St. Paul's thorn in the flesh. He prayed three times for God to remove it, but God allowed it to remain. So try taking St. Paul's approach. Ask God to remove this from you, and if He allows it to remain then ask Him for the grace to live with it accordingly. Try to deal with it like a form of spiritual arthritis. If you can't make it go away, then do your best to ignore it by occupying your mind with other things - preferably spiritually productive things. But as others have said, please do consult a Priest that you trust about this matter.

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Offline Romaios

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2013, 04:46:22 AM »
I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?
The 'blue pearl' is a phenomenon that arises due to basic human spiritual physiology. It is essentially no different from various siddhis (such as clairvoyance) that result from yogic practice. Just notice it's there, and pay no further attention to it.

Yay! Jetavan is back!  :)

Offline jah777

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2013, 08:50:46 AM »
You need to speak with an experienced and discerning spiritual father about this. 

sigh... if only I could

Do you know how to write a letter?

Are you saying only a discerning spiritual father would know the answer or "that lump is malignant and it needs to come out now!"

In your OP, you made no mention of a lump but considered this phenomenon to be spiritual/demonic in nature.  If you think you have a lump that needs to be checked out, by all means see a physician of the body.  If you think it is spiritual in nature, see a physician of the soul.

Offline LBK

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2013, 08:52:21 AM »

In your OP, you made no mention of a lump but considered this phenomenon to be spiritual/demonic in nature.  If you think you have a lump that needs to be checked out, by all means see a physician of the body.  If you think it is spiritual in nature, see a physician of the soul.

IMHO, he should see the physician of the body first. If nothing is found, then spiritual guidance should be sought. Simple symptoms can often develop into complex problems.

If it was me, I wouldn't risk my eyesight. I'd get this checked out.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 08:54:55 AM by LBK »
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Offline peacenprayer

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2013, 08:54:59 AM »
Yes, go talk to someone. However if it remained immediately after baptism its no demon. Nothings making it past that.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2013, 09:07:11 AM »
I've lived with it for so long I'm used to it but perhaps I should be more concerned?  Is this a really bad thing that I should seek a remedy for or is it more like the annoyance of mosquitoes - something to just ignore?
The 'blue pearl' is a phenomenon that arises due to basic human spiritual physiology. It is essentially no different from various siddhis (such as clairvoyance) that result from yogic practice. Just notice it's there, and pay no further attention to it.

Yay! Jetavan is back!  :)
I've been on sabbatical. :)
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Offline Bryan Paul

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2013, 10:18:21 AM »
Sincere questions (and suggested answers):

For 20 years I've continued to see a classic kundalini symtom called the "blue pearl" ... "A brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, which appears to the meditator whose energy has been awakened."

Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.

Quote
What's it like?  It's exactly like when a red laser light hits your retina except it's blue.

I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?

Quote
It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.

If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2013, 10:25:30 AM »
Sincere questions (and suggested answers):

For 20 years I've continued to see a classic kundalini symtom called the "blue pearl" ... "A brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, which appears to the meditator whose energy has been awakened."

Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.

Quote
What's it like?  It's exactly like when a red laser light hits your retina except it's blue.

I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?

Quote
It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.

If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.
It is on the internet. In real life, if you went to your priest and asked him about it, he would probably look at you quizzically and ask when your eye doctor appt is.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 10:26:04 AM by TheTrisagion »
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2013, 10:48:47 AM »
Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.
[...]
I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?
[...]
If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.

Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your interest.  As mentioned, my optometrist says the inside of my eye, optic nerve, etc. are fine but I've not been to an ophthalmologist.  The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.  During one meditation retreat it was happening 30 -50 times per hour - playing chess never.  Reading spiritual books - many times.  Reading news - never.

Whether it's a good or bad thing I don't know.  Whether it's a demon or a natural part of "spiritual physiology" I don't know.   I don't "put stock in gurus" (well... not any more!)  I only mentioned it so others might be less inclined to assume I'm imagining it. I think the truth is none of us here (especially me) have any certain knowledge about this light.

Congratulations on your interest in Orthodoxy - I hope oc.net doesn't give you a bad impression ;)    Good luck with your search ... may God guide you!
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Offline LBK

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2013, 10:53:56 AM »
Quote
The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.

Self-diagnosis is a dangerous thing.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline jah777

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2013, 10:58:02 AM »
Quote
It's unmistakable really and was also confirmed by the "guru" of the group most associated with it - lest anyone suppose I'm imagining this or it's a "mental image" or any such thing.

If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, and I don't wish to put words in his mouth, but it sounds as though he started having this experience prior to becoming an Orthodox Christian, that before he was Orthodox he was involved with gurus and was told by a guru that this is a "kundalini" phenomenon, and now that he is an Orthodox Christian he does not accept the Hindu explanation for this phenomenon and wants to understand how to properly understand this phenomenon as an Orthodox Christian.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2013, 10:59:20 AM »
So, were you a Hindu or yogi?
Is there any reason to assume this is a supernatural manifestation and not a physical, retinal issue? My ophthalmologist informed me that flashing blue lights are an indication of your retina tugging at the optic nerve. It's not always detectable if it's minor. I get these occasionally.
[...]
I would suggest that, if you know what a laser in the eye looks like, you might have damaged your retina at some point, and the most logical conclusion is that the blue lights are a result of that. Is it common in Orthodox Christianity to look for supernatural explanations first?
[...]
If you are a Christian, why do you put any stock in what a "guru" of a contrary religion/philosophy says? As someone who has recently become interested in Orthodoxy, I'm kind of concerned that the validity of this "kundalini" stuff is being tacitly accepted by so many Orthodox Christians in this thread. It goes contrary to everything I've learned about Orthodoxy so far.

Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your interest.  As mentioned, my optometrist says the inside of my eye, optic nerve, etc. are fine but I've not been to an ophthalmologist.  The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.  During one meditation retreat it was happening 30 -50 times per hour - playing chess never.  Reading spiritual books - many times.  Reading news - never.

Whether it's a good or bad thing I don't know.  Whether it's a demon or a natural part of "spiritual physiology" I don't know.   I don't "put stock in gurus" (well... not any more!)  I only mentioned it so others might be less inclined to assume I'm imagining it. I think the truth is none of us here (especially me) have any certain knowledge about this light.

Congratulations on your interest in Orthodoxy - I hope oc.net doesn't give you a bad impression ;)    Good luck with your search ... may God guide you!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:00:00 AM by hecma925 »
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2013, 11:12:40 AM »

In your OP, you made no mention of a lump but considered this phenomenon to be spiritual/demonic in nature.  If you think you have a lump that needs to be checked out, by all means see a physician of the body.  If you think it is spiritual in nature, see a physician of the soul.

IMHO, he should see the physician of the body first. If nothing is found, then spiritual guidance should be sought. Simple symptoms can often develop into complex problems.

If it was me, I wouldn't risk my eyesight. I'd get this checked out.

Could be a neurological issue - the possibility of a brain lesion/tumor needs to be ruled out.

Quote
The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.

Certain areas of the brain are associated with particular mental activities.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:17:28 AM by Romaios »

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2013, 11:17:46 AM »
Quote
The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.

Self-diagnosis is a dangerous thing.

Dear LBK,

Thank you sincerely for your concerns about my physical health but I don't feel a need to try to find some mechanical cause for every little thing that comes along - there's just WAY too many of them!   ;)
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2013, 11:19:52 AM »
He can correct me if I'm wrong, and I don't wish to put words in his mouth, but it sounds as though he started having this experience prior to becoming an Orthodox Christian, that before he was Orthodox he was involved with gurus and was told by a guru that this is a "kundalini" phenomenon, and now that he is an Orthodox Christian he does not accept the Hindu explanation for this phenomenon and wants to understand how to properly understand this phenomenon as an Orthodox Christian.

yes, 20 years before becoming Christian.  yes,  and yes.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2013, 11:25:55 AM »
Quote
The main reason why I'm fairly certain this has no mechanical cause is how it's almost invariably associated with spiritual contemplation.

Self-diagnosis is a dangerous thing.

Dear LBK,

Thank you sincerely for your concerns about my physical health but I don't feel a need to try to find some mechanical cause for every little thing that comes along - there's just WAY too many of them!   ;)

I've seen many a consequence of self-diagnosis in 30 years' experience in the health field. Men are also notoriously resistant to seeking medical advice.  :(
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:26:13 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2013, 11:42:31 AM »
I've seen many a consequence of self-diagnosis in 30 years' experience in the health field. Men are also notoriously resistant to seeking medical advice.  :(

For medical problems I seek medical advice ... like when I suffered more than a half dozen acute gall bladder attacks I went to doctors and they did find the cause - eventually - after misdiagnosing it for a year. 

This may come as a surprise to you but not everything has a medical explanation!  no, really.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2013, 11:44:31 AM »
I've seen many a consequence of self-diagnosis in 30 years' experience in the health field. Men are also notoriously resistant to seeking medical advice.  :(

For medical problems I seek medical advice ... like when I suffered more than a half dozen acute gall bladder attacks I went to doctors and they did find the cause - eventually - after misdiagnosing it for a year. 

This may come as a surprise to you but not everything has a medical explanation!  no, really.

Perhaps not, but it is usually a good place to start when dealing with afflictions such as this.
God bless!

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2013, 11:44:49 AM »
So, were you a Hindu or yogi?

umm... I think most yogis are Hindus
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Offline Romaios

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2013, 11:49:42 AM »
So, were you a Hindu or yogi?

umm... I think most yogis are Hindus

Some are Buddhists - practitioners of Vajrayana, for instance.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2013, 11:50:06 AM »
I've seen many a consequence of self-diagnosis in 30 years' experience in the health field. Men are also notoriously resistant to seeking medical advice.  :(

For medical problems I seek medical advice ... like when I suffered more than a half dozen acute gall bladder attacks I went to doctors and they did find the cause - eventually - after misdiagnosing it for a year. 

This may come as a surprise to you but not everything has a medical explanation!  no, really.

Perhaps not, but it is usually a good place to start when dealing with afflictions such as this.

Indeed. Especially when one's eyesight is affected.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2013, 11:56:30 AM »
Perhaps not, but it is usually a good place to start when dealing with afflictions such as this.

Why go medical?  it doesn't hurt or bother me at all.  I just wonder about it sometimes because it's unusual.   

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2013, 12:00:03 PM »
So, were you a Hindu or yogi?

umm... I think most yogis are Hindus

Some are Buddhists - practitioners of Vajrayana, for instance.

yup, been there done that (both Hindu & Buddhist) plus shamanism, Zen, etc.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2013, 12:01:51 PM »
I've seen many a consequence of self-diagnosis in 30 years' experience in the health field. Men are also notoriously resistant to seeking medical advice.  :(

For medical problems I seek medical advice ... like when I suffered more than a half dozen acute gall bladder attacks I went to doctors and they did find the cause - eventually - after misdiagnosing it for a year. 

This may come as a surprise to you but not everything has a medical explanation!  no, really.

Perhaps not, but it is usually a good place to start when dealing with afflictions such as this.

Indeed. Especially when one's eyesight is affected.

would you personally feel safer in your own world view if you could be convinced my experience were merely the result of some mechanical / medical circumstance?  is that it ?
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2013, 12:05:36 PM »
Why go medical?  it doesn't hurt or bother me at all.  I just wonder about it sometimes because it's unusual.   

It doesn't have to hurt or bother you to be a medical issue.  I think it's safest to rule out a medical explanation while, if not before, considering other possibilities.  I say that as someone who doesn't like going to doctors, taking medicines, etc.  I eat healthy, keep the fasts, and take walks, and that seems to keep me in good health.  But if I was seeing blue lights, I'd get it checked out.  

As someone said earlier, different parts of the brain are activated for different things.  If you're only experiencing this during "prayer", that doesn't mean that it's a spiritual issue by default.  It could be that the part of the brain active during prayer has an issue.  

Personally, I recommend getting it checked out.  I think ruling out seeing an ophthalmologist (optometrist doesn't count) and then looking for other explanations is at least somewhat irresponsible, reckless, and unscriptural.    
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2013, 12:09:03 PM »
would you personally feel safer in your own world view if you could be convinced my experience were merely the result of some mechanical / medical circumstance?  is that it ?

:P

Of course, this can be thrown right back at you.  Would you feel safer in your own worldview if this was a spiritual issue?  Would you feel like you were more spiritual because you were experiencing spiritual phenomena that others do not?  Perhaps you are so holy that demons are picking you as their target? 

Let's not go there.  Let's go to a doctor, just like everyone in the Gospels who approached Christ for healing.  If it doesn't work, it doesn't work and we can consider other options, but Scripture praises the skills of physicians as God-given gifts--why would we reject such gifts?   
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2013, 12:46:00 PM »
Let's go to a doctor, just like everyone in the Gospels who approached Christ for healing.  If it doesn't work, it doesn't work and we can consider other options, but Scripture praises the skills of physicians as God-given gifts--why would we reject such gifts?   

OK already... I'm really considering asking my doctor about it as his office is only about 4 blocks from me.  Not because I think my medical options will avail anything whatsoever but just to move this conversation beyond the bugbear of modern medical supremacy.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2013, 01:15:25 PM »
*wipes hands*

Mission Accomplished.  Was able to get man to go to doctor's office.  See, miracles do still occur.  ;D
God bless!

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2013, 01:17:33 PM »
*wipes hands*

Mission Accomplished.  Was able to get man to go to doctor's office.  See, miracles do still occur.  ;D

An Elder! :o
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2013, 05:13:03 PM »
"Bindu:  The compact mass of spiritual power or energy (Sakti) gathered into an undifferentiated point, ready to manifest as the universe. A form made of light (Blue Pearl). The material cause of creation."   - p.93 "A Concise Dictionary of Indian Philosophy" SUNY press 1996.

... or... a small retinal tear or mischievous demon as the case may be ...   ;)

FWIW, I remember contemplating this "blue pearl" (which always appears between and slightly above the eyebrows with eyes open or closed) in terms of the jewels in Indra's net - each one supposedly including the universe which also includes each other jewel - (a mythic representation of the infinite interpenetration of all things).  Anyway, (according to oc.net medical theory), this particular contemplation must have then triggered a particular part of my brain to cause this illusion of light to again appear but then to rapidly expand or to have caused my consciousness to appear to dive directly into this illusion of light. 

Other people have also experienced and described the same thing about entering the light, piercing the bindu, etc. (although they don't mention how).  I find it more plausible to assume we were all toyed around with by the same demon than to assume we all have the same retinal tear or brain defect.

In any event ... retinal tear, spiritual energy, small demon - I don't think I'll ever know even if my doctor does hazard a wild guess - why would his guess be any better than yours or Fr. Seraphim Rose?  Remember Fr. Rose was referring to my former guru specifically and to this light specifically as an example of the kind of demonic influence he was talking about.  He was a smart guy, why didn't he think ... "poor deluded people... probably has a medical explanation"?
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2013, 07:53:44 PM »
Other people have also experienced and described the same thing about entering the light, piercing the bindu, etc. (although they don't mention how).  I find it more plausible to assume we were all toyed around with by the same demon than to assume we all have the same retinal tear or brain defect.

"More plausible" and "to assume" don't exactly inspire confidence. 

Look, it's your life, if you want to assume it's a demon or something, go ahead.  Just don't pretend there's anything Christian or Orthodox about doing things that way.  A responsible course of action would be to consider all possibilities: physical, spiritual, psychological, etc.  I'd be very surprised to find an Orthodox cleric, monastic, or writer who would advocate passing on a medical exam even if they believed in "spiritual" causes. 

Quote
In any event ... retinal tear, spiritual energy, small demon - I don't think I'll ever know even if my doctor does hazard a wild guess - why would his guess be any better than yours or Fr. Seraphim Rose? 

Well, maybe it has to do with all that scientific and medical training.  If he doesn't find anything physically wrong with you, you're not obligated to listen to his "guesses" if they extend into fields in which he has no experience.  But at least it's good to give him the benefit of the doubt in fields in which he does have experience.  I don't think Fr Seraphim was a physician by training...

Quote
Remember Fr. Rose was referring to my former guru specifically and to this light specifically as an example of the kind of demonic influence he was talking about.  He was a smart guy, why didn't he think ... "poor deluded people... probably has a medical explanation"?

There's a difference between writing a book and taking care of a person. 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Santagranddad

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2013, 08:17:40 PM »
Your physician's concern is based on an informed medical view rather than, forgive me, a rather syncretic mismatch of theories which appear to have no sound basis other than in your thought processes. As you have already had suggested why not follow your physician's advice? Because physicians and surgeons may be God's instruments too. If you reject the advice already given then it raises the question of why did you start the thread?

As one eminent medical analyst, as I recall, said to a patient, "If you don't want to heal, there's the door". The next move is yours.

Offline Nephi

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2013, 08:53:27 PM »
I'd be very surprised to find an Orthodox cleric, monastic, or writer who would advocate passing on a medical exam even if they believed in "spiritual" causes. 

I'm not disagreeing, but there are pretty weird quotes that come out of some Eastern European priests/monks. E.g. breast cancer being a specific woman's fault not satisfying her husband.

Partially related, I just remembered a monk or priest quoted on here talking about dragons - does anyone remember?

Offline Romaios

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2013, 09:01:03 PM »
I'd be very surprised to find an Orthodox cleric, monastic, or writer who would advocate passing on a medical exam even if they believed in "spiritual" causes. 

I'm not disagreeing, but there are pretty weird quotes that come out of some Eastern European priests/monks. E.g. breast cancer being a specific woman's fault not satisfying her husband.

You must have picked that one up from Augustin's excerpts from Fr. Ilarion Argatu.  :laugh:

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2013, 09:04:26 PM »
I'd be very surprised to find an Orthodox cleric, monastic, or writer who would advocate passing on a medical exam even if they believed in "spiritual" causes. 

I'm not disagreeing, but there are pretty weird quotes that come out of some Eastern European priests/monks. E.g. breast cancer being a specific woman's fault not satisfying her husband.

You must have picked that one up from Augustin's excerpts from Fr. Ilarion Argatu.  :laugh:

That's the one that mentioned the dragon, too! I couldn't remember his name for the life of me.

Although, IIRC the breast cancer comment came from Elder Thaddeus in the book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives.

Offline Romaios

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2013, 09:11:20 PM »
Although, IIRC the breast cancer comment came from Elder Thaddeus in the book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives.

I only recall Elder Tadej saying that people can become mentally ill if those who prepare their food quarrel and swear while cooking.

I actually like him a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qACk5vu_wY   
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 09:14:07 PM by Romaios »

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2013, 09:11:38 PM »
I'd be very surprised to find an Orthodox cleric, monastic, or writer who would advocate passing on a medical exam even if they believed in "spiritual" causes. 

I'm not disagreeing, but there are pretty weird quotes that come out of some Eastern European priests/monks. E.g. breast cancer being a specific woman's fault not satisfying her husband.

You must have picked that one up from Augustin's excerpts from Fr. Ilarion Argatu.  :laugh:

That's the one that mentioned the dragon, too! I couldn't remember his name for the life of me.

Although, IIRC the breast cancer comment came from Elder Thaddeus in the book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives.

The good Elder might be shocked to know that the onset of breast cancer is not restricted to married women. Celibate women, even -gasp!- nuns get it, as do men. Male breast cancer is rare, but it happens.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2013, 09:13:52 PM »
Your physician's concern is based on an informed medical view rather than, forgive me, a rather syncretic mismatch of theories which appear to have no sound basis other than in your thought processes. As you have already had suggested why not follow your physician's advice? Because physicians and surgeons may be God's instruments too. If you reject the advice already given then it raises the question of why did you start the thread?

As one eminent medical analyst, as I recall, said to a patient, "If you don't want to heal, there's the door". The next move is yours.

Numerous saints were physicians, in times of old, and in our times. St Luke of Simferopol', monk, bishop and master surgeon during the Soviet period, is one who comes to mind.
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2013, 09:19:37 PM »
you guys ...  I will definitely mention this to my doctor next time I go for a checkup.  I'll tell him I've had it for 20 maybe 25 years - it doesn't hurt or concern me - and I don't want to bother with further tests unless he is concerned.   He won't be.

Open question to every one of you suggesting medical advice:  "do you believe anyone in the world sees the blue pearl (ie. kundalini light in the ajna chakra) for a reason other than a physical / medical abnormality?"  

I'm curious whether you disbelieve in the very existence of such things or whether you disbelieve they might have happened to me in particular.  Please... this is not rhetorical, I want to know.

What these things really are ... well, now that's the question.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 09:24:42 PM by Феофан »
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Offline Romaios

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2013, 09:26:09 PM »
Although, IIRC the breast cancer comment came from Elder Thaddeus in the book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives.

No - it was definitely Fr. Argatu: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43448.msg718845.html#msg718845
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 09:26:44 PM by Romaios »

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2013, 09:29:53 PM »
Although, IIRC the breast cancer comment came from Elder Thaddeus in the book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives.

I only recall Elder Tadej saying that people can become mentally ill if those who prepare their food quarrel and swear while cooking.

I actually like him a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qACk5vu_wY   

I didn't actually recall that one, but I do remember where he told a woman she killed her son (who died in a car accident) because she told him she didn't want to see him again.

Anyway, I'll have to watch that when I get the chance - I did really like the book, even with the couple odd bits.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2013, 09:31:05 PM »
you guys ...  I will definitely mention this to my doctor next time I go for a checkup.  I'll tell him I've had it for 20 maybe 25 years - it doesn't hurt or bother me - and I don't want to bother with further tests unless he is concerned.   He won't be.

Open question to every one of you suggesting medical advice:  "do you believe anyone in the world sees the blue pearl (ie. kundalini light in the ajna chakra) for a reason other than a physical / medical abnormality?"  

I'm curious whether you disbelieve in the very existence of such things or whether you disbelieve they might have happened to me in particular.  Please... this is not rhetorical, I want to know.

What these things actually are ... well, now that's the question.


There are many things that either I do not understand or comprehend. In answer to your issue, it appears better to have a down to earth approach, i.e. check out with the physician. Issues, concerns and fears may always be discussed with a priest or confessor too, their input may have huge significance. What it not recommended is self diagnosis. Speculation, exploring or seeking endorsement of your own theories on the .net is possibly the least therapeutic option.

All the best.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2013, 09:31:28 PM »
Although, IIRC the breast cancer comment came from Elder Thaddeus in the book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives.

No - it was definitely Fr. Argatu: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,43448.msg718845.html#msg718845

Okay, thanks for the correction. After posting it I was really unsure whether I had remembered correctly, and obviously I hadn't. :D

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2013, 09:56:23 PM »
There are many things that either I do not understand or comprehend. In answer to your issue, it appears better to have a down to earth approach, i.e. check out with the physician. Issues, concerns and fears may always be discussed with a priest or confessor too, their input may have huge significance. What it not recommended is self diagnosis. Speculation, exploring or seeking endorsement of your own theories on the .net is possibly the least therapeutic option.

I have told my priest about similar (actually more unusual) experiences in my past and he clearly didn't know what to make of it.  I could try him on this one but I'm certain it would be the same. I will try my doctor but I'm certain it will be the same.  Nobody KNOWS - I'd bet my house on it.  It's because NOBODY knows that I talk to you people about it - because why not?  It can't get any less certain for me and it might be interesting for some of you.

To repeat myself... I don't know what to make of it.  I don't have a good theory to believe in - I'm just aware of what some other people think and consider "medical pathology" the least likely to be true.  The phenomena is very highly correlated to people engaging in eastern mystical practice.  As far as I know it's virtually unheard of outside that group.  Think about it... are people drawn to meditation because of pre-existing retinal tears or brain defects?  Or does meditation perhaps produce these retinal tears or brain defects? 
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Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2013, 10:22:05 PM »
Meditaion opens one up to all kinds of thngs that are said to be good and a sign of advanced spiritual progress.

Unfortunatly OP you are one of the ones that has alowed yourself to be used as a host for this thing.

you say its not bothering you and does nothing bad. ? is that what it wants you to think /feel?

im sory, i was not going to respond to this thread as im trying to stop speaking/reliving such things.

but get to a Orthodox priest and have him read the protection prayers and cleaning prayers over you. repent your past ways and belifes, go to curch, comune and pray, you are Orthodox now are you not?! and hopefully it will go away.

what you are describing has NO place in our religion, othere then the demonic.

btw: im speaking from personal experience, not the same situation as you but very simmilar.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2013, 10:46:08 PM »
but get to a Orthodox priest and have him read the protection prayers and cleaning prayers over you. repent your past ways and belifes, go to curch, comune and pray, you are Orthodox now are you not?! and hopefully it will go away.

what you are describing has NO place in our religion, othere then the demonic.

btw: im speaking from personal experience, not the same situation as you but very simmilar.

I'm sorry to hear of your trouble and pray God heals you and helps you and holds you close to His heart now and ever for ages of ages amen.

I discussed the darkness of my former practice in some detail with my priest before baptism and was very definitely glad to know about the exorcism part, triple immersion, renouncing and spitting on the devil, etc.  I trust whatever God now allows me to be reminded of is for my benefit even if it seems otherwise to me.  Reading your concerns and because the situation is ongoing I will definitely now discuss this blue light with my priest and ask him if I need to have any special prayers said over me, etc.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 10:49:44 PM by Феофан »
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2013, 10:54:42 PM »
but get to a Orthodox priest and have him read the protection prayers and cleaning prayers over you. repent your past ways and belifes, go to curch, comune and pray, you are Orthodox now are you not?! and hopefully it will go away.

what you are describing has NO place in our religion, othere then the demonic.

btw: im speaking from personal experience, not the same situation as you but very simmilar.

I'm sorry to hear of your trouble and pray God heals you and helps you and holds you close to His heart now and ever for ages of ages amen.

I discussed the darkness of my former practice in some detail with my priest before baptism and was very definitely glad to know about the exorcism part, triple immersion, renouncing and spitting on the devil, etc.  I trust whatever God now allows me to be reminded of is for my benefit even if it seems otherwise to me.  Reading your concerns and because the situation is ongoing I will definitely now discuss this blue light with my priest and ask him if I need to have any special prayers said over me, etc.

I still can't understand your dogged reluctance to have this checked out physically.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2013, 10:32:55 AM »

I still can't understand your dogged reluctance to have this checked out physically.

I said I'd bring it up with my GP next checkup
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2013, 10:39:13 AM »

I still can't understand your dogged reluctance to have this checked out physically.

I said I'd bring it up with my GP next checkup

Good. I'm just concerned about your repeated assertions that you "know" it's not "mechanical", without having had that possibility ruled out.  :police:
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #76 on: August 31, 2013, 10:55:45 AM »

I still can't understand your dogged reluctance to have this checked out physically.

I said I'd bring it up with my GP next checkup

I just spent thirty seconds trying to squash the 'bug' on my screen. The jokes on me....

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2013, 11:32:49 AM »

I still can't understand your dogged reluctance to have this checked out physically.

I said I'd bring it up with my GP next checkup

I just spent thirty seconds trying to squash the 'bug' on my screen. The jokes on me....

Me too.  :D
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #78 on: August 31, 2013, 02:12:23 PM »
you guys ...  I will definitely mention this to my doctor next time I go for a checkup.  I'll tell him I've had it for 20 maybe 25 years - it doesn't hurt or concern me - and I don't want to bother with further tests unless he is concerned.   He won't be.

Open question to every one of you suggesting medical advice:  "do you believe anyone in the world sees the blue pearl (ie. kundalini light in the ajna chakra) for a reason other than a physical / medical abnormality?"  

I'm curious whether you disbelieve in the very existence of such things or whether you disbelieve they might have happened to me in particular.  Please... this is not rhetorical, I want to know.

What these things really are ... well, now that's the question.


I wouldn't always suggest medical examination since in my experience doctors tend not to do well with difficult scenarios.   A lot of them like the easy stuff.  Take your blood, omg high cholesterol, give you a pill to fix it.  That's $389.00 USD for ten minutes, NEXT!   Other people seem to get a great deal of help and rack of millions of dollars in hospital bills, particularly if they are older and / or male.

You might get referred over to a neurologist.  They just don't always have answers, and quality of care greatly varies.

I've seen what you call 'blue light' but I always thought of it as a blue star.  It was incredibly beautiful, and I never understood what it was.  I was not Christian, but was dabbling in various things.  I've not heard that it was kundalini, though I used to understand the basics of that system. 

I am a baptized Orthodox Christian now, and I've not had visions since, but I've had different sorts of experiences.   I gave up everything I used to think I knew to try and learn to follow Christ, who interestingly, is sometimes referred to as the 'hallowed triple daystar which illumines the whole world'. 

I also suffer from visual migraines, but it was nothing like that.  I also see flashes of light and spots and moving shadows, but think most of that is physical visual disturbance, and if it's not, I don't worry about it and just remember to pray, even the Jesus prayer, or just remember God.  The blue star was nothing like those things, and it was fantastically beautiful and peaceful and lasted quite awhile.  The background was like velvety black night sky.   

Recently I read somewhere that an elder considered blue light to be demonic.  I don't take everything every elder says as absolute truth.  That would mean that cool range fluorescent lamps are demonic.  Sometimes things they say are taken out of context too.  And blue is the color associated with the Theotokos, and one of my favorite colors.

In any case, if it's any help, if I were the tell our parish priest something like that, he would likely tell me to keep my prayer rule, receive Communion when possible, continue to participate in the life of the Church, and ignore it.

But if I ignored every supernatural event in my life I would never have become Christian.   But I think the advice is basically sound, even if he has no experience with that sort of thing.  And for 'not trusting ourselves in anything' well, we live in the world, not under the care of a spiritually advanced elder in a protected monastic environment.  So a level of discernment has to develop, and that generally doesn't happen overnight.  Just pray and ask God for help, ask the saints with whom you feel a connection to pray for you. 

Saw an interesting documentary recently title Wake Up about a young man who suddenly could see angels, demons, and ghosts, and his quest to find out what was happening to him.  It all started when he was in San Francisco. He went through a battery of psychological tests, and an MRI scan to rule out physical causes, and they couldn't find any mental illness or problems on the MRI.  He struggled with pride in being able to see what others couldn't.  He went on a long adventure to various countries to find answers.   

But he never tried Orthodoxy, unfortunately.  But he did notice that censing his house everyday with sage, and keeping a statue of Archangel Michael and the Theotokos helped keep his house from being invaded, but he rejected Christianity of his childhood, some sort of southern Baptist. 

And for the working in corporate environment cutting one off from a spiritual life, I've noticed that can happen as well, but I don't see how that would give you insight to the nature of your particular experience.   

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Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #79 on: August 31, 2013, 02:48:25 PM »

In any case, if it's any help, if I were the tell our parish priest something like that, he would likely tell me to keep my prayer rule, receive Communion when possible, continue to participate in the life of the Church, and ignore it.

Yes, this is what I had assumed myself before starting this thread.  As I'm not upset about this I'm fairly sure my priest will say something similar - but you never know, he might surprise me - I'll ask him and see.   (and... "yes, I'll also ask my doctor")
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 02:57:26 PM by Феофан »
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Offline Gayle

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2013, 01:00:49 AM »
Ignore it and pray and ever time it's there pray and fast. Also do go to spiritual father.And No BryanS this is not a usal part of Orthodoxy.I was once around this kind of spiritualisum and the Fathers say to ignore it and pray.(the Jesus payer)

Offline Tallitot

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2013, 02:15:22 AM »
I say this as a nurse, I'd see an opthomologist (not a GP). This could be indicative of a retinal problem and if so some day you could wake up blind. A GP/PCP will just send you to an opthomologist anyway.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2013, 02:42:51 PM »
I say this as a nurse, I'd see an opthomologist (not a GP). This could be indicative of a retinal problem and if so some day you could wake up blind. A GP/PCP will just send you to an opthomologist anyway.

tell me Tallitot, as a nurse, do you disbelieve in the existence of things like this on principle?  do you think no one sees light in/through their 3rd eye (ajna chakra)?  or is it your professional opinion that some do but I do not?
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2013, 04:05:56 PM »
I say this as a nurse, I'd see an opthomologist (not a GP). This could be indicative of a retinal problem and if so some day you could wake up blind. A GP/PCP will just send you to an opthomologist anyway.

tell me Tallitot, as a nurse, do you disbelieve in the existence of things like this on principle?  do you think no one sees light in/through their 3rd eye (ajna chakra)?  or is it your professional opinion that some do but I do not?
I believe it's prudent to rule out natural causes and make sure there is no physical pathology involved. What's wrong with that?
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2013, 04:46:58 PM »
I say this as a nurse, I'd see an opthomologist (not a GP). This could be indicative of a retinal problem and if so some day you could wake up blind. A GP/PCP will just send you to an opthomologist anyway.

tell me Tallitot, as a nurse, do you disbelieve in the existence of things like this on principle?  do you think no one sees light in/through their 3rd eye (ajna chakra)?  or is it your professional opinion that some do but I do not?
I believe it's prudent to rule out natural causes and make sure there is no physical pathology involved. What's wrong with that?

Nought, simply prudent.

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2013, 06:02:38 PM »
I'd like you to answer my questions Tallitot.  "do you disbelieve in the existence of things like this on principle?  do you think no one sees light in/through their 3rd eye (ajna chakra)?  or is it your professional opinion that some do but I do not?"

I don't care what anyone here thinks is medically prudent.  I was never asking for medical advice

« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 06:04:28 PM by Феофан »
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #86 on: September 02, 2013, 06:48:49 PM »
I'd like you to answer my questions Tallitot.  "do you disbelieve in the existence of things like this on principle?  do you think no one sees light in/through their 3rd eye (ajna chakra)?  or is it your professional opinion that some do but I do not?"

I don't care what anyone here thinks is medically prudent.  I was never asking for medical advice



Then what are seeking, an endorsement of your own notions. Surely as you appeared so wedded to such a thing and do not want to hear anyone else's different take, is it the case you are either winding us up or simply want us to collude with your interpretation of this 'reported' phenomena?

I for one am out, especially when you appear unwilling to accept kindly offered advice and add insult to injury by DEMANDING your question be answered. And for free might I suggest you take the advice and put on some big boy pants while you about it.

Goodnight and goodbye....

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #87 on: September 02, 2013, 07:32:57 PM »
I'd like you to answer my questions Tallitot.  "do you disbelieve in the existence of things like this on principle?  do you think no one sees light in/through their 3rd eye (ajna chakra)?  or is it your professional opinion that some do but I do not?"

I don't care what anyone here thinks is medically prudent.  I was never asking for medical advice



Then what are seeking, an endorsement of your own notions. Surely as you appeared so wedded to such a thing and do not want to hear anyone else's different take, is it the case you are either winding us up or simply want us to collude with your interpretation of this 'reported' phenomena?

I for one am out, especially when you appear unwilling to accept kindly offered advice and add insult to injury by DEMANDING your question be answered. And for free might I suggest you take the advice and put on some big boy pants while you about it.

THIS!!
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #88 on: September 02, 2013, 10:14:40 PM »
Then what are seeking, an endorsement of your own notions. Surely as you appeared so wedded to such a thing and do not want to hear anyone else's different take, is it the case you are either winding us up or simply want us to collude with your interpretation of this 'reported' phenomena?

I for one am out, especially when you appear unwilling to accept kindly offered advice and add insult to injury by DEMANDING your question be answered. And for free might I suggest you take the advice and put on some big boy pants while you about it.

Goodnight and goodbye....

Yes goodbye to you too and I really hope you mean that.  

For the 2nd or 3rd time now... I don't have any particular theory about this light except I am fairly certain it's not a medical problem - about as certain as I am the sun will rise tomorrow - not 100% but enough for me to bet my eyesight on - or my net worth or whatever you like.   why?    BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY RELATED TO THE CONTENT OF WHAT I'M CONTEMPLATING, not time of day or diet or eyestrain or physical activity or whether my eyes are open or closed, etc etc etc

If any of you really think particular topics of thought can cause retinal failure I think you are irredeemably stupid or terrifically frightened of things "unknown" to you.  Yes, you think it's an eye problem.  I heard you the first ten times. 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 10:17:22 PM by Феофан »
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #89 on: September 02, 2013, 10:59:44 PM »
enough for me to bet my eyesight on - or my net worth or whatever you like.  

Be careful for what you wish for ....
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #90 on: September 03, 2013, 12:59:44 PM »
For example... I didn't see this light yesterday at all but this morning I was lying in bed daydreaming about the church's political disorganization in the near future and the thought occurred "it doesn't matter what happens to the worldly organization of the church it only matters what one's true spiritual connection is to God"  then immediately *  <-- for 1 second.

It basically never appears any other time than in some apparently meaningful relation to a thought about spirituality - but I never know what the meaning is.  Is it a kind of confirmation or a misleading deception?  I have no idea.

Or... maybe it's an eye problem?  I have another reason for not thinking so...  I've been very psychic all my life and frequently know things I should have no way of knowing - like the future for instance, like other people's minds.  Example:  one day my wife phones me from work and  says "guess what I saw today?" I instantly answer (correctly) "a photo of a man with a worm coming out of his leg".  How could I know that?  I don't know how I know some things but I know I know them.  I know this light is not a medical problem and I know a few of you definitely do NOT know me or what I'm talking about but seem to have a need to believe you do.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #91 on: September 03, 2013, 01:28:35 PM »
Well, if you're demonstrably psychic to some degree, that does change my calculus quite a bit.  That's clearly connected to the blue pearl in the ajna chakra, and not to some medical issues.  Why didn't you just say so in the first place?  Or did you and I missed that? 

Not too many people have that particular confluence of spiritual gifts.  If they haven't been driven out through the exorcisms of baptism, clearly they are gifts given to one close to God.       
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #92 on: September 03, 2013, 02:15:33 PM »
Quote
Not too many people have that particular confluence of spiritual gifts.  If they haven't been driven out through the exorcisms of baptism, clearly they are gifts given to one close to God.

Absolutely agree 100%!!!

Offline IoanC

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2013, 02:32:19 PM »
Not too many people have that particular confluence of spiritual gifts.  If they haven't been driven out through the exorcisms of baptism, clearly they are gifts given to one close to God.      

Why not? However, spiritual gifts are not uncommon, in whatever degree that they are. All people are meant to be spiritual and God is within all of us.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 02:33:19 PM by IoanC »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #94 on: September 03, 2013, 02:37:22 PM »
Not too many people have that particular confluence of spiritual gifts.  If they haven't been driven out through the exorcisms of baptism, clearly they are gifts given to one close to God.      

Why not? However, spiritual gifts are not uncommon, in whatever degree that they are. All people are meant to be spiritual and God is within all of us.
God gives each of us different spiritual gifts.  Gifts such as clairvoyance have historically been extremely rare in the Church.  Not saying that the OP can't have it, but there are probably far more people who believe they have a certain spiritual gift than actually do.
God bless!

Offline mabsoota

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #95 on: September 03, 2013, 02:39:24 PM »
i actually don't agree that if you are still 'psychic' after exorcism and baptism that it must be from God.
definitely demons can deceive Christians, even orthodox Christians. the demons like us to be proud and to think we are in control of our spiritual awareness.

NO ONE IS EVER IN CONTROL OF HIS OR HER SPIRITUAL AWARENESS

if it comes from God, God can limit or increase the amount you know about the future, e.g. if you are very humble and try to conceal your spiritual abilities and spend all your free time praying or doing humble tasks for others (like cleaning the toilet when no one knows about it) then God may give you more gifts. all the spiritual fathers and mothers from orthodox church history who performed miracles or prophecy were very humble (like abba tomas, one of the coptic desert fathers in the 400s AD). God is in control. as you submit your will to God's will at all times, you will be closer to him, but He is in control.

if it does not come from God, the demons will try to deceive you so you think you are controlling it, but in fact they are controlling you. the more you use the 'gift', the further you will get from God and the prouder you will become.
see, by example this (number 12 in the link below):

Some brothers came to find Abba Anthony to tell him about the visions they were having, and to find out from him if they were true or if they came from the demons. They had a donkey, which died on the way. When they reached the place where the old man was, he said to them before they could ask him anything, ‘How was it that the little donkey died on the way here?’ They said, ‘How do you know about that, Father?’ And he told them, ‘The demons showed me what happened.’ So they said, ‘That was what we came to question you about, for fear we were being deceived, for we have visions which often turn out to be true.’ Thus the old man convinced them, by the example of the donkey, that their visions came from the demons.

thanks to:- http://stanthonylc.org/about/who-is-saint-anthony/
for letting me copy and paste the story (it is a very well known story in our church).
so, please, please be careful in the area of supernatural knowledge.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #96 on: September 03, 2013, 02:40:21 PM »
This is all pagan stuff.
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #97 on: September 03, 2013, 02:53:03 PM »
I had an eye injury when I was younger and the ophthalmologist warned that seeing flashing lights in the future could indicate a serious retinal tear. Since the injury my field of vision has also been clouded with objects in the vitreous gel of the eye called "floaters", which can take a variety of shapes and degrees of transparency (some are darker than others). There is a possibility that this is what you are experiencing- please visit an ophthalmologist ASAP. Everyone gets floaters as they age but a sudden onset could indicate serious problems.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJ-1QCmLphA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGj5tRzQIU0
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 03:10:51 PM by NightOwl »

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #98 on: September 03, 2013, 06:32:33 PM »
I had an eye injury when I was younger and the ophthalmologist warned that seeing flashing lights in the future could indicate a serious retinal tear. Since the injury my field of vision has also been clouded with objects in the vitreous gel of the eye called "floaters", which can take a variety of shapes and degrees of transparency (some are darker than others). There is a possibility that this is what you are experiencing- please visit an ophthalmologist ASAP. Everyone gets floaters as they age but a sudden onset could indicate serious problems.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJ-1QCmLphA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGj5tRzQIU0

Don't hold your breath, NightOwl. Feofan has long ago made up his mind.  ::) ::) :P
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 06:33:41 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #99 on: September 03, 2013, 07:06:34 PM »
I agree it is very dangerous and unwise to feel pride of ownership about any of our gifts from God.  Whether this silly blue light is a gift of God or something from a demon I really don't know.  I have prayed to God that it be removed but so far it hasn't - nor have I ever placed much stock in being occasionally psychic.  Believe it or not, my predominant interest has always been to know the truth - whatever it was - whatever the cost.

I agree it is very dangerous and unwise to mistake one's subjective feelings (let alone fantasies) for being more than they are or to be from God.  None the less we all have feelings - some of which do seem very elevated or inspired.  This caused me great discomfort because I was trying very hard to know God, to be closer to God, to give myself completely to God by following His commandments as best I could - and yet how could I ever know I wasn't just fooling myself? 

I began to pray very fervently that God respond to me in some way that I could not mistake as being from any other source than Him.  I implored the saints I really believed in that they would beseech God for the same thing on my behalf.  This went on for many months until one day my wife shouted out "NO... no!" and I realized a child was about to be run over by a car.  In a single instant my heartfelt prayer to God for the safety of that child was not only answered miraculously right in front of both of us but more importantly my spirit was informed the child would be perfectly OK and THEN we saw the miracle happen.  The "place" where the assurance was given and the "agent" through which the assurance was given convinced me absolutely that there is a God Who is not only aware of the slightest movements of our hearts but He can and will respond to us.

For some reason God put me in a situation where I would spontaneously ask for the right thing in the right way and then He gave it.  I can take no credit for that (anyone would have done the same) and all I take away from the experience (beside the certainty of God's closeness and preparedness to respond) was the possible importance of what we pray for - for the good of others - for God's will to be done - these prayers might be more likely to be answered.

From previous experience I can also say (I am ashamed to admit) that the devil is also very close to each and every one of us and I think any of us could go either way.  May God help us and guide us all.
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #100 on: September 03, 2013, 07:14:15 PM »
I had an eye injury when I was younger and the ophthalmologist warned that seeing flashing lights in the future could indicate a serious retinal tear. Since the injury my field of vision has also been clouded with objects in the vitreous gel of the eye called "floaters", which can take a variety of shapes and degrees of transparency (some are darker than others). There is a possibility that this is what you are experiencing- please visit an ophthalmologist ASAP. Everyone gets floaters as they age but a sudden onset could indicate serious problems.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJ-1QCmLphA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGj5tRzQIU0

Don't hold your breath, NightOwl. Feofan has long ago made up his mind.  ::) ::) :P

I have floaters too but this ain't they ... this blue light has been an infrequent visitor for around  25 years so it's not exactly "sudden onset" either .  Thank you both for caring though and good luck with your long term recovery from injury NightOwl.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 07:16:40 PM by Феофан »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #101 on: September 03, 2013, 08:24:11 PM »
Well, if you're demonstrably psychic to some degree, that does change my calculus quite a bit.  That's clearly connected to the blue pearl in the ajna chakra, and not to some medical issues.  Why didn't you just say so in the first place?  Or did you and I missed that? 

Not too many people have that particular confluence of spiritual gifts.  If they haven't been driven out through the exorcisms of baptism, clearly they are gifts given to one close to God.       

For the record, I was absolutely 100% kidding.  I said this to test a hypothesis.   
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #102 on: September 03, 2013, 08:44:31 PM »
Well, if you're demonstrably psychic to some degree, that does change my calculus quite a bit.  That's clearly connected to the blue pearl in the ajna chakra, and not to some medical issues.  Why didn't you just say so in the first place?  Or did you and I missed that?  

Not too many people have that particular confluence of spiritual gifts.  If they haven't been driven out through the exorcisms of baptism, clearly they are gifts given to one close to God.      

For the record, I was absolutely 100% kidding.  I said this to test a hypothesis.    

How did your test work out for you, Mor  ?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 08:45:46 PM by Феофан »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #103 on: September 03, 2013, 08:50:56 PM »
Preliminary results appear to confirm my hypothesis, but more testing is necessary.  At any rate, I'll be publishing my findings in So What?!, the journal of the American Association of People Who Really Don't Care.  :)
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #104 on: September 03, 2013, 10:26:32 PM »
Preliminary results appear to confirm my hypothesis, but more testing is necessary.  At any rate, I'll be publishing my findings in So What?!, the journal of the American Association of People Who Really Don't Care.  :)

have fun with that Mor
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Offline IoanC

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #105 on: September 04, 2013, 01:18:26 AM »
Not too many people have that particular confluence of spiritual gifts.  If they haven't been driven out through the exorcisms of baptism, clearly they are gifts given to one close to God.      

Why not? However, spiritual gifts are not uncommon, in whatever degree that they are. All people are meant to be spiritual and God is within all of us.
God gives each of us different spiritual gifts.  Gifts such as clairvoyance have historically been extremely rare in the Church.  Not saying that the OP can't have it, but there are probably far more people who believe they have a certain spiritual gift than actually do.

Gifts come in various degrees and flavors. You don't have to be a super-saint to experience some sort of clairvoyance.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #106 on: September 04, 2013, 07:15:35 AM »
Preliminary results appear to confirm my hypothesis, but more testing is necessary.  At any rate, I'll be publishing my findings in So What?!, the journal of the American Association of People Who Really Don't Care.  :)
Is that a quarterly or....you know what, I don't care. ;D
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Offline Gayle

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #107 on: September 04, 2013, 10:38:24 AM »
You need to quit concerning your self with this blue light. It's not good to do so.when God wants your attention you will know! Don't look for gifts just work at being a God pleas-er.

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #108 on: September 04, 2013, 12:30:30 PM »
You need to quit concerning your self with this blue light. It's not good to do so.when God wants your attention you will know! Don't look for gifts just work at being a God pleas-er.

perhaps you missed my saying the following previous to your suggestion

[...] Whether this silly blue light is a gift of God or something from a demon I really don't know.  I have prayed to God that it be removed but so far it hasn't - nor have I ever placed much stock in being occasionally psychic.  Believe it or not, my predominant interest has always been to know the truth - whatever it was - whatever the cost.

So no, actually I'm not that concerned about seeing light or having gifts but "yes" I think your advice would be good for anyone regardless.

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Offline Nacho

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #109 on: September 08, 2013, 03:35:51 AM »
^^Did you ever stop to think that this blue spherical light you are seeing may be your guardian angel?
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #110 on: September 08, 2013, 12:16:22 PM »
Or it could be the Holy Light that flashes from the Holy Sepulchre on the eve of Pascha.  That's widely reported to be bluish in hue.  Blue is also associated with Our Lady, so maybe it's her visiting. 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #111 on: September 09, 2013, 09:13:11 AM »
Or it could be the Holy Light that flashes from the Holy Sepulchre on the eve of Pascha.  That's widely reported to be bluish in hue.  Blue is also associated with Our Lady, so maybe it's her visiting. 
I'm with Mor on this one.  I think this is probably the most likely scenario.
God bless!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #112 on: September 09, 2013, 11:21:43 AM »
 ... Mor irrelevant hilarity

Nobody I know believes the blue pearl has anything to do with Christianity (except as a joke) - it's definitely "pagan stuff" (as Michal suggested) and Fr. Seraphim Rose specifically and unambiguously identified this particular light as demonic. 

According to Google, more than a few people see this thing but in my opinion, they are deluded to imagine it is spiritually "good" or they are "special" because of seeing it.

Quote
Meditation on the Soul is very powerful. The essence of this spiritual practice is to concentrate and be aware of the "seed of consciousness" or the "blue pearl" at the center of the head, and eventually become one with the higher soul.
      - Master Choa Kok Sui, Meditations for Soul Realization, p. 112

What exactly is the blue pearl? The blue pearl is the “seed of consciousness” or the mental permanent seed, found in the crown chakra, and located in the pineal gland. Through regular and prolonged meditation on the blue pearl or the seed of consciousness, one gradually experiences one’s true nature, which is called the “Buddha Nature” in Buddhism.
      - Master Choa Kok Sui, Om Mani Padme Hum: The Blue Pearl in the Golden Lotus, p. 55  http://www.souledout.org/healing/bluedot/bluemore.html


So the question might then be asked "why do so many meditators have the kind of retina damage which causes this vision of light?" - but I'd be 100% kidding if I asked it.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #113 on: September 09, 2013, 11:29:29 AM »
... Mor irrelevant hilarity

Quote
Hathayoga Pradipika, 3rd Chapter:

Verse 32: Kechari Mudra is done by inserting the tongue into the hole in the soft palate at the roof of the mouth, by turning it backward.

33. In order to be successful, the tongue must lengthened into a Lambika (such as the long tongue of Goddess Kali). Sometimes cutting the frenulum (the mucus membrane that holds back the underside of the tongue to the floor of the mouth) is necessary. Else, pull or move your tongue around constantly. When it gets long enough, to reach the point between the eyebrows, then Kechari becomes possible.

36. The frenulum is cut 1/2 millimeter each day and the wound is sealed. In 6 months, the tongue becomes free & quite long. (Note: Dont eat food or drink that are too hot like chilli or too sour. This will make the tongue thicker and interfere with Khechari.)

38. A Yogi adept in Khechari, who turns his tongue upward in his seat (usually Siddhasana), is impervious to poisons, disease, ageing and death.

39. He overcomes disease, death, sleep, laziness, hunger, thirst, and fainting.

43. NECTAR: If a Yogi can drink the Juice of Soma (Moon) by meditating in Khechari mudra, surely he subdues Death within 15 days!

44. The Khechari expert cannot be killed even if bitten by the most poisonous snake; because his body is imbued with nectar.

45. Death cannot enter a body which is full of Nectar secreted from Soma (The triangular Moon mandala inside Sahasrara, the 1000 petalled Lotus)

48. The Juice of Immortality is secreted by the moon.

49. Taste the nectar with the tip of the tongue. The Ambrosia may be salty, bitter, sour, milky, or, like ghee(clarified butter) or, honey. Be free from disease, old age, be thou immortal and pull astral beings by the magnetic force.

50. The nectar falls from the Moon in the brain to the 8 petalled lotus near the heart. He who catches it by balancing Prana and doing Khechari and meditates on the source of all Power (Kundalini or Mahashakti or Almighty or whatever you call it!) becomes free from all physical ailments and lives a very long life.

Source

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #114 on: September 09, 2013, 11:35:45 AM »
Hey, where can I get that juice of Soma, maybe that would cure the blue dots!  ;)
God bless!

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #115 on: September 09, 2013, 12:55:10 PM »
So the question might then be asked "why do so many meditators have the kind of retina damage which causes this vision of light?" - but I'd be 100% kidding if I asked it.

You don't get it. 

It's not that "so many meditators" have retinal damage.  You asked us about you.  So we advised, among other things, seeing a physician.  Maybe ten meditators are seeing some pagan phenomena, and you have a medical problem.  Or maybe they have a medical problem, and you are seeing some pagan phenomena.  But we're not examining "so many meditators", we're talking about your personal situation because you brought it up.  If a hundred meditators are seeing demons, that doesn't mean you are.  Take care of yourself, you are responsible for that much.  And that means responsibly checking out all possibilities and ruling out what does not hold up under examination. 

But you seem to want only to check out certain possibilities, or to give credence only to some.  That's fine, that's on you.  But then don't expect people to affirm you in such irresponsibility.  You're lucky that all you're getting is "Mor irrelevant hilarity".     
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #116 on: September 09, 2013, 01:33:00 PM »
So the question might then be asked "why do so many meditators have the kind of retina damage which causes this vision of light?" - but I'd be 100% kidding if I asked it.

You don't get it. 

It's not that "so many meditators" have retinal damage.  You asked us about you.  So we advised, among other things, seeing a physician.  Maybe ten meditators are seeing some pagan phenomena, and you have a medical problem.  Or maybe they have a medical problem, and you are seeing some pagan phenomena.  But we're not examining "so many meditators", we're talking about your personal situation because you brought it up.  If a hundred meditators are seeing demons, that doesn't mean you are.  Take care of yourself, you are responsible for that much.  And that means responsibly checking out all possibilities and ruling out what does not hold up under examination. 

But you seem to want only to check out certain possibilities, or to give credence only to some.  That's fine, that's on you.  But then don't expect people to affirm you in such irresponsibility.  You're lucky that all you're getting is "Mor irrelevant hilarity".     

I do understand you Mor, I just disagree about the likelihood of it being a retina problem in my individual case and I've explained why.  Your affirmation would be meaningless to me. Thanks for your input. You don't need to reply further.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #117 on: September 09, 2013, 01:38:11 PM »
So the question might then be asked "why do so many meditators have the kind of retina damage which causes this vision of light?" - but I'd be 100% kidding if I asked it.

You don't get it.  

It's not that "so many meditators" have retinal damage.  You asked us about you.  So we advised, among other things, seeing a physician.  Maybe ten meditators are seeing some pagan phenomena, and you have a medical problem.  Or maybe they have a medical problem, and you are seeing some pagan phenomena.  But we're not examining "so many meditators", we're talking about your personal situation because you brought it up.  If a hundred meditators are seeing demons, that doesn't mean you are.  Take care of yourself, you are responsible for that much.  And that means responsibly checking out all possibilities and ruling out what does not hold up under examination.  

But you seem to want only to check out certain possibilities, or to give credence only to some.  That's fine, that's on you.  But then don't expect people to affirm you in such irresponsibility.  You're lucky that all you're getting is "Mor irrelevant hilarity".    

I do understand you Mor, I just disagree about the likelihood of it being a retina problem in my individual case and I've explained why.  Your affirmation would be meaningless to me. Thanks for your input. You don't need to reply further.
Have you considered an exorcism?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 01:38:23 PM by TheTrisagion »
God bless!

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2013, 01:54:32 PM »
You don't need to reply further.

I didn't need to at all, but thanks. 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2013, 03:16:43 PM »
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #120 on: September 09, 2013, 03:24:45 PM »
Have you considered an exorcism?

Yes, I was very concerned about the many deep sustained elements of real darkness in my previous path and tried my best to convey this to my priest before baptism and specifically in the life confession.  I took the exorcism part of baptism literally.  At that time I hadn't read Fr. Seraphim Rose "Orthodoxy & the Religion of the Future" mentioning this specific light (and associated guru) so I probably didn't mention it specifically either.  I'm not certain I even consciously considered it to be demonic at the time.  Now I do.

I am going to discuss all this with my priest and get his take on it.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 03:39:36 PM by Феофан »
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Offline Gayle

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #121 on: September 09, 2013, 03:55:45 PM »
May  the lord have mercy on you an heal you!

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #122 on: September 09, 2013, 09:12:26 PM »
May  the lord have mercy on you an heal you!

Thanks Gayle ... I will gladly take all the prayers I can get. 

Over time this has become more an oddity than even an annoyance and I'm coming to the conclusion the real danger (for me) might be in my jumping to any conclusions about it at all - "good" or "bad".  While I'm quite certain it comes from some "spiritual" source other than God I don't think that necessarily means I am possessed just because God allows it to appear to me.  As long as I don't "own" it somehow or jump off the deep end about what it "really means" - I hope with God's help I'll be OK.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #123 on: September 09, 2013, 09:37:20 PM »
Over time this has become more an oddity than even an annoyance and I'm coming to the conclusion the real danger (for me) might be in my jumping to any conclusions about it at all - "good" or "bad".
 

+

Quote
While I'm quite certain it comes from some "spiritual" source other than God I don't think that necessarily means I am possessed just because God allows it to appear to me.
 

=

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Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #124 on: September 09, 2013, 09:39:11 PM »
This ^ cracks me up so much Mor!

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #125 on: September 09, 2013, 10:53:03 PM »
A "mor" carefully worded version would be:  "while I'm reasonably certain it comes from some non-physical source other than God, I feel any conclusion (good or bad) beyond that seems dangerous and unwarranted (for me)".  

I think the intended meaning was clear enough in my previous post but Mor was quick to point out an apparent contradiction.  Surely he did so in a spirit of trying to help me because a graduate from St. Vladamir's wouldn't speak to anyone here just to mock or insult them would he?

You are a graduate of St.Vladamir's aren't you Mor?  Are you planning to be a priest someday?  
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 10:54:07 PM by Феофан »
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #126 on: September 09, 2013, 10:57:35 PM »
OP, visual hallucinations are symptoms of medical conditions as well.

When was the last time you saw a doctor or medical professional?

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #127 on: September 09, 2013, 11:19:03 PM »
OP, visual hallucinations are symptoms of medical conditions as well.

When was the last time you saw a doctor or medical professional?

Have you read my previous posts in this thread?  Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.  When attending Siddha Yoga meditation retreats I would see this light once or twice per minute - but never like that any other time before or since.  I never see it when reading news or playing chess - only when I'm reading or contemplating some spiritual topic and then only at a meaningful juncture like the conclusion of something.

For what it's worth to those of you who insist I have an eye problem ... keep in mind the Siddha Yoga guru confirmed to me that what I see is exactly what they see and it is this group and this light specifically mentioned by Fr. Seraphim Rose as being demonic.

For the life of me I don't understand why that should be SO implausible for some of you to accept.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 11:20:27 PM by Феофан »
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #128 on: September 09, 2013, 11:34:08 PM »
I find much of what Fr. Seraphim said to be implausible, so bringing him up only makes me more suspicious. But then I have no clue what is going on with you, so...   I'm not sure where to go with this.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #129 on: September 10, 2013, 12:12:37 AM »
But then I have no clue what is going on with you, so...   I'm not sure where to go with this.

I think that is very fair of you sir ... and it's a relief for me to know at least one person here is not convinced they know far better than I do though they have no direct experience of the topic.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #130 on: September 10, 2013, 12:13:52 AM »
OP, visual hallucinations are symptoms of medical conditions as well.

When was the last time you saw a doctor or medical professional?

Have you read my previous posts in this thread?

Yes.

Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.

That doesn't mean you don't have visual hallucinations while focusing spiritually.

When attending Siddha Yoga meditation retreats I would see this light once or twice per minute - but never like that any other time before or since.

Why participate in Siddha Yoga meditation retreats?

I never see it when reading news or playing chess - only when I'm reading or contemplating some spiritual topic and then only at a meaningful juncture like the conclusion of something.

You read news, play chess and practice Siddha Yoga - no other activities?

For what it's worth to those of you who insist I have an eye problem ... keep in mind the Siddha Yoga guru confirmed to me that what I see is exactly what they see and it is this group and this light specifically mentioned by Fr. Seraphim Rose as being demonic.

For the life of me I don't understand why that should be SO implausible for some of you to accept.

If you have a correlation between seeing "demonic" lights and practicing Siddha Yoga, why not stop the Siddha Yoga?  If you still see lights, then consult with a medical professional.

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #131 on: September 10, 2013, 12:41:01 AM »
A "mor" carefully worded version would be:  "while I'm reasonably certain it comes from some non-physical source other than God, I feel any conclusion (good or bad) beyond that seems dangerous and unwarranted (for me)".  

I think the intended meaning was clear enough in my previous post but Mor was quick to point out an apparent contradiction.  Surely he did so in a spirit of trying to help me because a graduate from St. Vladamir's wouldn't speak to anyone here just to mock or insult them would he?

Actually, my first five or six contributions to this thread were my attempt to offer serious advice to help you regarding the initial question(s) you posed at the beginning.  But over the course of the thread you seemed to me and to others to have a definite opinion about what is going on with you, and therefore not to want to pursue certain avenues of investigation that are a matter of prudence and common sense for Christians (Orthodox or not), while leaping into (IMO) wild conjecture regarding what are, to you, more probable causes.  That's dangerous on numerous levels.  You're welcome to consider it insulting, but if people can't reach you through conventional means, they will try others hoping that something will click and you will start thinking and acting more sensibly. 

Ultimately, though, it is your life, and you are free to do with it as you please.  But when you keep putting yourself and your self-diagnoses out there and make snide remarks against those who have tried to help you with advice with which you disagree, don't sanctimoniously pretend to be a victim.         

Quote
You are a graduate of St.Vladamir's aren't you Mor?  Are you planning to be a priest someday?  

Yes and no.  The angels rejoice.   
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #132 on: September 10, 2013, 12:44:40 AM »
Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.  

Maybe you should consult a psychiatrist. 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #133 on: September 10, 2013, 09:42:47 AM »
Why participate in Siddha Yoga meditation retreats?
[...]
If you have a correlation between seeing "demonic" lights and practicing Siddha Yoga, why not stop the Siddha Yoga?  If you still see lights, then consult with a medical professional.

I attended Siddha Yoga retreats maybe 25 years ago and stopped after 1 or 2 years.  Seeing their "blue pearl" has been intermittent since, sometimes not for several months.  I've been Christian for only 1 year.
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #134 on: September 10, 2013, 09:43:42 AM »
Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.  

Maybe you should consult a psychiatrist. 
Perhaps I should but not for this reason.
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #135 on: September 10, 2013, 10:43:44 AM »
Ultimately, though, it is your life, and you are free to do with it as you please.  But when you keep putting yourself and your self-diagnoses out there and make snide remarks against those who have tried to help you with advice with which you disagree, don't sanctimoniously pretend to be a victim.         

ahh... OK,  it might have been better for me to have chosen a subject line like "former cult member continues to experience "siddhis".

The first time I saw this light I was looking at a photo of Swami Muktananda on the back of one of his books which is a classic and almost common kind of introduction for "devotees".  They considered this to be a spontaneous awakening of kundalini energy - like dry wood catching fire from a small spark.  I remember reading a book by an American psychology professor who described seeing this electric blue light coming out of Muktananda's eye entering his own and circulating back to Muktananda. His book wasn't specifically about Siddha Yoga he just mentioned it parenthetically in a scientifically objective way. 

If my disputants here really care about me or the topic they should research Siddha Yoga / Muktananda and the kinds of things happening to people back then because I was one of them.  My particular experience was classic and completely in keeping  with other supposed "adepts" in that cult.  God knows what we were really experiencing but it's very unlikely it was retinal failure (in my opinion). 

Obviously I experienced seeing this light much more frequently when I was actively participating in the cult but it's exactly the same when I experience it again now - 25 years later.



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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #136 on: September 17, 2013, 05:15:36 PM »
I've been on sabbatical. :)
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #137 on: September 18, 2013, 08:28:51 AM »
God bless!

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2013, 01:38:43 PM »
Quote
Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.

Of course they can, spiritual focus is mental focus after all. Many things can trigger hallucinations, from stress to anticipation. You may be so focused on it, consciously or subconsciously, that your brain playing tricks on you. People with certain mental traits can be easily talked into various visual effects which may not be persistent, but for some people it stays for the life (like flashing lights in anxiety disorders, for some it stays long after treatment).


Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2013, 02:23:36 PM »
Quote
Visual hallucinations don't generally start and stop happening in relation to spiritual focus.
Of course they can, spiritual focus is mental focus after all. Many things can trigger hallucinations, from stress to anticipation. You may be so focused on it, consciously or subconsciously, that your brain playing tricks on you. People with certain mental traits can be easily talked into various visual effects which may not be persistent, but for some people it stays for the life (like flashing lights in anxiety disorders, for some it stays long after treatment).

In your opinion would this be equally true for everyone in the Siddha Yoga cult who experiences this?
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Offline bearpaws

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #140 on: September 18, 2013, 05:43:26 PM »
I have no opinion really, I don't know how many of them experienced anything and how many just said they did. Unguided, regular meditation can be harmful for people with preexisting mental and even physical conditions, it is that easy to induce things on your own, so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.

Anyway, answering your question from the title, I would ignore it.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 05:44:29 PM by bearpaws »

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #141 on: September 18, 2013, 07:00:37 PM »
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #142 on: September 19, 2013, 10:40:10 AM »
[...] so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.

Yes, I find charismatic Christianity disturbing but have no direct experience of it.  Do you think those people are just deluded in their own minds or are some of them actually "channeling" demons?  Either way it's disturbing (to me).
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #143 on: September 19, 2013, 10:56:43 AM »
[...] so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.

Yes, I find charismatic Christianity disturbing but have no direct experience of it.  Do you think those people are just deluded in their own minds or are some of them actually "channeling" demons?  Either way it's disturbing (to me).
I doubt there is any channeling of demons, but I do think there is a very strong sense of self-delusion.
God bless!

Offline bearpaws

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #144 on: September 19, 2013, 11:23:58 AM »
[...] so what kind of effects can be produced with meditation guided by guru who want certain things to occur? Look at pentecostal movements in christianity, what charismatic leader can do to the whole congregation.

Yes, I find charismatic Christianity disturbing but have no direct experience of it.  Do you think those people are just deluded in their own minds or are some of them actually "channeling" demons?  Either way it's disturbing (to me).


When it comes to fundies there is always some major brainwashing going on. Some like to call everything demonic, but truth is people are most of the time far worse than demons, and a lot harder to deal with  ::)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 11:27:20 AM by bearpaws »

Offline Феофан

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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #145 on: September 19, 2013, 12:31:53 PM »
Some like to call everything demonic, but truth is people are most of the time far worse than demons, and a lot harder to deal with  ::)

I think human goodness is a dim reflection of divine goodness and human evil is a dim reflection of the demonic. Without the protection of God I doubt humans would stand a chance against fallen angels . 
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Re: persistent kundalini "demon"? would you be concerned ?
« Reply #146 on: September 19, 2013, 12:33:04 PM »
Lol, "fundies."
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