Author Topic: Orarion and Cassock  (Read 1135 times)

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Offline liftsifter

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Orarion and Cassock
« on: August 28, 2013, 01:53:54 AM »
I attended a funeral service this past week and while within the sanctuary my priest told our deacon that only Orarion atop the external cassock could be worn and the this would be sufficient.

Both my deacon and myself were taken aback a bit as we both thought full vestments are required for the service.

Any input?
"And the King will say to them, ‘Verily I say to you, inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these my bretheren, you have done it to Me.’" Matthew 25

Offline arimethea

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2013, 09:29:22 AM »
I attended a funeral service this past week and while within the sanctuary my priest told our deacon that only Orarion atop the external cassock could be worn and the this would be sufficient.

Both my deacon and myself were taken aback a bit as we both thought full vestments are required for the service.

Any input?

Technically the deacon only needs to fully vest for Liturgy. For Great Vespers he would wear the sticharion and orarion, but not the epamanikion. The Deacon only serves at Orthros if it is part of Vigil or Liturgy is to follow. He never serves at daily services. All other services would just require the orarion over the exorasson (although it is very common at weddings, because of the festive nature, for the deacon to wear his sticharion).
Joseph

Offline mike

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2013, 09:35:25 AM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 09:35:42 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 12:00:12 PM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.
Joseph

Offline mike

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2013, 12:12:34 PM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.

Wondering if I've ever seen a deacon in an exorasson that wasn't a monk.
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Offline liftsifter

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 12:16:22 AM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.

Wondering if I've ever seen a deacon in an exorasson that wasn't a monk.

I can't speak for other jurisdictions, but Antiochians allow Sub-Deacon and above to wear exorasson. Most often, Sub-Deacons require the blessing of their Spiritual Father before wearing exorasson.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 12:20:17 AM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.

Wondering if I've ever seen a deacon in an exorasson that wasn't a monk.

Wearing an exorasson is quite uncommon among Romanian clergy. Our priests are frequently scolded for this when visiting the Holy Mountain.

Offline liftsifter

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 12:22:09 AM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.

Wondering if I've ever seen a deacon in an exorasson that wasn't a monk.

Wearing an exorasson is quite uncommon among Romanian clergy. Our priests are frequently scolded for this when visiting the Holy Mountain.

I guess that makes it more of a Byzantine tradition, then?
"And the King will say to them, ‘Verily I say to you, inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these my bretheren, you have done it to Me.’" Matthew 25

Offline Romaios

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 12:35:25 AM »
I guess that makes it more of a Byzantine tradition, then?

Russians are also very typikon-compliant in such regards.

Offline mildert

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 06:38:49 AM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.

Wondering if I've ever seen a deacon in an exorasson that wasn't a monk.

Wearing an exorasson is quite uncommon among Romanian clergy. Our priests are frequently scolded for this when visiting the Holy Mountain.

I guess that makes it more of a Byzantine tradition, then?

Wearing an orarion without the sticharion is a Greek practiice.  In the Russian practice, a deacon never wears the exorasson (or riassa)under his vestments.
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 11:28:58 AM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.

Wondering if I've ever seen a deacon in an exorasson that wasn't a monk.

Wearing an exorasson is quite uncommon among Romanian clergy. Our priests are frequently scolded for this when visiting the Holy Mountain.

I guess that makes it more of a Byzantine tradition, then?

Wearing an orarion without the sticharion is a Greek practiice.  In the Russian practice, a deacon never wears the exorasson (or riassa)under his vestments.

The deacon fully vesting for every service only became "Russian" tradition during the late 1800's. The same time the priest wearing the Epamanikion for everything also became the tradition.
Joseph

Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2013, 06:23:25 PM »
This is all very interesting, the differences between Greek and Slavic practice. I thought it was always as it is now, instead of the difference being a recent one.

Does anyone know, perhaps, why this developed into the present difference? I'd be very interested to know...
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Offline liftsifter

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2013, 11:27:54 PM »
My understanding is that the Russians belived in westernizing the church music and iconography in order to evangelize.

Such as the Russian Tones, much more harmonized than the Byzantine Tone. In fact, 1812 Overture, it's all Russian Tone 1! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxgYlcNxE8

For example, the Antiochians in N. America preserve both traditions and have combined them. Much of the music is from the OCA, with much harder hit Russian tones. Bishop Antoun has even said "The Russian Tone sounds like machine guns!" Which, is a bit true. The Russian tones sound very choppy. Such as, "Through-the-intercessions-of-the-Theo-toooooooo-koooooooss" I guess it's more of a tradition for most. Many in our Archdiocese refuse to adopt Russian tones as His Eminence Philip pushes, while the Diocese of the West is almost completely Byzantine under His Eminence Joseph.

In the end, it's the same creed we pray at each Divine Liturgy.
"And the King will say to them, ‘Verily I say to you, inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these my bretheren, you have done it to Me.’" Matthew 25

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 01:03:26 PM »
Orarion and cassock are OK for services of need among the Greeks, Romanians and Serbs. However, Russian practice insists on the Deacon vesting fully and the priest preferably wearing a Phelonion with his Epitrachelion and Cuffs, if possible. For a funeral, I would prefer to be overdressed than underdressed, just to be on the safe side.

Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2013, 03:56:17 AM »
Orarion on a cassock looks cool. Not sure I've seen it in real, however.

It should never be on the cassock, but always with the exorasson.

Wondering if I've ever seen a deacon in an exorasson that wasn't a monk.

I can't speak for other jurisdictions, but Antiochians allow Sub-Deacon and above to wear exorasson. Most often, Sub-Deacons require the blessing of their Spiritual Father before wearing exorasson.

I think that you are wrong. I believe that only a Deacon wears an exorasson in Antiochian practice.
When I was in seminary at Holy Cross all seminarians wore an exorasson. We were made rassophors by Archbishop Iakovos when we entered seminary. However, as an Antiochian seminarian, I never wore it except at seminary. In a parish, I wore a cassock.

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Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 02:03:38 AM »
My understanding is that the Russians belived in westernizing the church music and iconography in order to evangelize.

Such as the Russian Tones, much more harmonized than the Byzantine Tone. In fact, 1812 Overture, it's all Russian Tone 1! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxgYlcNxE8

For example, the Antiochians in N. America preserve both traditions and have combined them. Much of the music is from the OCA, with much harder hit Russian tones. Bishop Antoun has even said "The Russian Tone sounds like machine guns!" Which, is a bit true. The Russian tones sound very choppy. Such as, "Through-the-intercessions-of-the-Theo-toooooooo-koooooooss" I guess it's more of a tradition for most. Many in our Archdiocese refuse to adopt Russian tones as His Eminence Philip pushes, while the Diocese of the West is almost completely Byzantine under His Eminence Joseph.

In the end, it's the same creed we pray at each Divine Liturgy.

At the time that we went to English in the 1930s and 1940s it was felt that it was much easier to fit the English into the Russian music. Later under Metropolitan Philip, we began using Byzantine chant in English. One of the things that has helped spread Byzantine chant is our summer camps. The youth learn to chant there using Byzantine chant and brought that back to the parishes.

Fr. John W. Morris

Offline mike

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 04:37:42 AM »
I thought you are WRO.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 04:37:55 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2013, 05:27:08 AM »
When I chant at local Antiochian parishes, they let me wear my rason. Perhaps that is simply because I don't own an anteri, however.
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Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Orarion and Cassock
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2013, 01:25:57 PM »
When I chant at local Antiochian parishes, they let me wear my rason. Perhaps that is simply because I don't own an anteri, however.

Usually an Antiochian  Bishop will bless an ordained reader to wear a jibby (Arabic for rasson) when he chants.

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