Author Topic: Rejoicing over those in hell.  (Read 1144 times)

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Offline Eastern Mind

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Rejoicing over those in hell.
« on: August 26, 2013, 02:42:35 PM »
http://www.rts.edu/Site/Virtual/Resources/Student_Theses/Johnson-Seeing_Hell.pdf

I know, it's not Orthodox, but it does quote people like Tertullian, and even some Catholic apologists. None of this is true in Orthodoxy, right? Surely we won't be celebrating the sufferings of those in hell, right? That almost seems morbid.


Does the Orthodox Church teach this?

It's just something that worries me. I don't know why. I guess as someone who grew up Reformed, I had it drilled into my head so much.

Sorry if I rambled :/
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 02:47:13 PM »

The Orthodox Church rejoices at a sinner being saved, not the other way around.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 02:51:09 PM »
I believe the work of Tertullian mentioned (The Shows) was before his leaving the Church, and I don't want to simply dismiss him out of hand because he later apostasized, and/or possibly already held unorthodox opinions... but yeah, that's not Orthodox at all to rejoice. I understand rejoicing in the victory of God and the saints, but not the language he uses there (I also checked the new advent version to see if there was much difference). As for the St. Augustine quote, I don't have much of an issue with it, though I think it would be an interesting theological point of view to chew over.  But in general, no, it's not Orthodox/orthodox to rejoice in the suffering or damnation of people. Perhaps sometimes things are said for effect or out of hyperbole or to make a point, but in general, no.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 06:45:20 PM »
Oh, I don't know...
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 06:59:57 PM »
Over every billionaire in there

Online PeterTheAleut

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 12:26:26 AM »
Over every billionaire in there
Just remember that your personal opinion is most definitely NOT representative of the Church.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 12:42:27 AM »
Over every billionaire in there
Just remember that your personal opinion is most definitely NOT representative of the Church.
I only express personal opinions in case it has escaped your vigilance so far.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 01:22:59 AM »
I weep and tremble at the thought of hell. Such a place or state of existence was created for the devil and his fallen angels, not for man. (St. Matt 25:41) I could never celebrate the eternal torment of anyone. But I confess that I do find comfort in verses like Psalm 58:10: "The righteous shall rejoice when they are avenged. They shall bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked." I think of this verse when I think about child molesters, abortionists, and people who accrue wealth by exploiting, oppressing, and murdering the innocent. The Divine Judgment will be thorough and complete, and the innocent victims will be blessed with participation in the Divine retribution. I just pray that it's not my own blood in which the innocent bathe their holy feet.


Selam
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Offline Quinault

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 01:35:46 AM »
The Orthodox view of hell is decidedly incompatible with any rejoicing about those suffering in hell. Because hell isn't exactly a *place* in the Orthodox understanding. Hell is a state of being that is concurrent with heaven. The light of God's love shines equally on everyone. It is our ability to accept that love that determines if that love brings either pleasure or pain.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 01:41:07 AM »
I think we can rejoice in the sense that there is consolation in the fact that everything is now made right and there is no more injustice.

I find it a funny contradiction. Why is it that people are always blaming and criticizing God for all of the evil in the world, lamenting and begging Him to come into the world and do something about all of this evilness? Yet, when it comes to God finally doing something and punishing the wicked and showing mercy to the righteous, we find it problematic? Which way are we going to have it? You want a God who shows mercy to everyone and sends no one to Hell, yet, you lament and accuse Him of wickedness when He does nothing to stop the evil people in the world.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 01:43:23 AM »
Good points Quinault and JamesR. I agree.

"The love of God is the fire of hell."  ~ St. Isaac the Syrian ~


Selam
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 01:43:42 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
""Love is a dangerous thing. It will crush you if you trust it. But without it you can never be whole. Love crucifies, but love saves. We will either be saved together with love, or damned alone without it."    Selam, +GMK+

Offline Quinault

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 02:25:28 AM »
I think we can rejoice in the sense that there is consolation in the fact that everything is now made right and there is no more injustice.

I find it a funny contradiction. Why is it that people are always blaming and criticizing God for all of the evil in the world, lamenting and begging Him to come into the world and do something about all of this evilness? Yet, when it comes to God finally doing something and punishing the wicked and showing mercy to the righteous, we find it problematic? Which way are we going to have it? You want a God who shows mercy to everyone and sends no one to Hell, yet, you lament and accuse Him of wickedness when He does nothing to stop the evil people in the world.

That's the thing; God isn't punishing them. They are punishing themselves by being unwilling to obey God. All of our sins are essentially refusing to obey God. By sinning we punish ourselves. God doesn't need to punish us.

One thing that happens a great deal with couples as they deploy is that they fight more. They fight more because subconsciously it is easier to withstand the separation/parting if you aren't sort of welcoming it. In the short term this is easier. In the long term it is very damaging to the entire relationship. This is like our choice to sin. We know it is wrong, but we don't look at the long term repercussions of our sin.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 01:03:21 AM »

I agree with James too

do we have a heresiarch on our hands? ;p

or maybe an augustine

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Offline IoanC

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Re: Rejoicing over those in hell.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 10:49:20 AM »
You can be at peace knowing that it is who they really are. So, they don't suffer in hell in the true sense of the word, since their world is totally aberrational and they identify with it totally making those people aberrations, objects, non-existence; and for a normal person they don't make absolutely any sense; it is impossible to relate to them in any meaningful way.