OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 02, 2014, 12:45:06 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Rejoicing over those in hell.  (Read 918 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Eastern Mind
Hi! I'm Olaf and I like warm hugs!
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Hopeful
Jurisdiction: Greece
Posts: 713



« on: August 26, 2013, 02:42:35 PM »

http://www.rts.edu/Site/Virtual/Resources/Student_Theses/Johnson-Seeing_Hell.pdf

I know, it's not Orthodox, but it does quote people like Tertullian, and even some Catholic apologists. None of this is true in Orthodoxy, right? Surely we won't be celebrating the sufferings of those in hell, right? That almost seems morbid.


Does the Orthodox Church teach this?

It's just something that worries me. I don't know why. I guess as someone who grew up Reformed, I had it drilled into my head so much.

Sorry if I rambled :/
Logged

"ALL THE GODS OF THE HINDUS ARE DEMONS HAHAHAHAHA!!"
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,041



WWW
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 02:47:13 PM »


The Orthodox Church rejoices at a sinner being saved, not the other way around.
Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 29,981


black metal cat


« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 02:51:09 PM »

I believe the work of Tertullian mentioned (The Shows) was before his leaving the Church, and I don't want to simply dismiss him out of hand because he later apostasized, and/or possibly already held unorthodox opinions... but yeah, that's not Orthodox at all to rejoice. I understand rejoicing in the victory of God and the saints, but not the language he uses there (I also checked the new advent version to see if there was much difference). As for the St. Augustine quote, I don't have much of an issue with it, though I think it would be an interesting theological point of view to chew over.  But in general, no, it's not Orthodox/orthodox to rejoice in the suffering or damnation of people. Perhaps sometimes things are said for effect or out of hyperbole or to make a point, but in general, no.
Logged

"But science is an inferential exercise, not a catalog of facts. Numbers, by themselves, specify nothing. All depends upon what you do with them" - Stephen Jay Gould
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 06:45:20 PM »

Oh, I don't know...
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
augustin717
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,634



« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 06:59:57 PM »

Over every billionaire in there
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,350


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 12:26:26 AM »

Over every billionaire in there
Just remember that your personal opinion is most definitely NOT representative of the Church.
Logged
augustin717
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,634



« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 12:42:27 AM »

Over every billionaire in there
Just remember that your personal opinion is most definitely NOT representative of the Church.
I only express personal opinions in case it has escaped your vigilance so far.
Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,312

"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 01:22:59 AM »

I weep and tremble at the thought of hell. Such a place or state of existence was created for the devil and his fallen angels, not for man. (St. Matt 25:41) I could never celebrate the eternal torment of anyone. But I confess that I do find comfort in verses like Psalm 58:10: "The righteous shall rejoice when they are avenged. They shall bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked." I think of this verse when I think about child molesters, abortionists, and people who accrue wealth by exploiting, oppressing, and murdering the innocent. The Divine Judgment will be thorough and complete, and the innocent victims will be blessed with participation in the Divine retribution. I just pray that it's not my own blood in which the innocent bathe their holy feet.


Selam
Logged

"Those who have nothing constructive to offer are masters at belittling the offerings of others." +GMK+
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 01:35:46 AM »

The Orthodox view of hell is decidedly incompatible with any rejoicing about those suffering in hell. Because hell isn't exactly a *place* in the Orthodox understanding. Hell is a state of being that is concurrent with heaven. The light of God's love shines equally on everyone. It is our ability to accept that love that determines if that love brings either pleasure or pain.
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,689


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 01:41:07 AM »

I think we can rejoice in the sense that there is consolation in the fact that everything is now made right and there is no more injustice.

I find it a funny contradiction. Why is it that people are always blaming and criticizing God for all of the evil in the world, lamenting and begging Him to come into the world and do something about all of this evilness? Yet, when it comes to God finally doing something and punishing the wicked and showing mercy to the righteous, we find it problematic? Which way are we going to have it? You want a God who shows mercy to everyone and sends no one to Hell, yet, you lament and accuse Him of wickedness when He does nothing to stop the evil people in the world.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,312

"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 01:43:23 AM »

Good points Quinault and JamesR. I agree.

"The love of God is the fire of hell."  ~ St. Isaac the Syrian ~


Selam
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 01:43:42 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"Those who have nothing constructive to offer are masters at belittling the offerings of others." +GMK+
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 02:25:28 AM »

I think we can rejoice in the sense that there is consolation in the fact that everything is now made right and there is no more injustice.

I find it a funny contradiction. Why is it that people are always blaming and criticizing God for all of the evil in the world, lamenting and begging Him to come into the world and do something about all of this evilness? Yet, when it comes to God finally doing something and punishing the wicked and showing mercy to the righteous, we find it problematic? Which way are we going to have it? You want a God who shows mercy to everyone and sends no one to Hell, yet, you lament and accuse Him of wickedness when He does nothing to stop the evil people in the world.

That's the thing; God isn't punishing them. They are punishing themselves by being unwilling to obey God. All of our sins are essentially refusing to obey God. By sinning we punish ourselves. God doesn't need to punish us.

One thing that happens a great deal with couples as they deploy is that they fight more. They fight more because subconsciously it is easier to withstand the separation/parting if you aren't sort of welcoming it. In the short term this is easier. In the long term it is very damaging to the entire relationship. This is like our choice to sin. We know it is wrong, but we don't look at the long term repercussions of our sin.
Logged
Gunnarr
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,753



« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 01:03:21 AM »


I agree with James too

do we have a heresiarch on our hands? ;p

or maybe an augustine

Logged

I am a demonic servant! Beware!
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 10:49:20 AM »

You can be at peace knowing that it is who they really are. So, they don't suffer in hell in the true sense of the word, since their world is totally aberrational and they identify with it totally making those people aberrations, objects, non-existence; and for a normal person they don't make absolutely any sense; it is impossible to relate to them in any meaningful way.
Logged

Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 40 queries.