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Author Topic: Against Serafim of Sarov  (Read 4991 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #135 on: August 27, 2013, 07:31:25 PM »

They have communed together for many decades, and everybody knows it and sees it.

Prove it.
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« Reply #136 on: August 27, 2013, 07:31:47 PM »

it must have been the Latins that conformed to the trend set by the Kollyvades in this regard? I doubt it

Doubt it not.  The Latins and the Nikonians have both made the Kollyvades teaching on frequency of communion their official doctrine. 

They are parts of the same church. 

St. Ignatius of Antioch begs to differ.
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« Reply #137 on: August 27, 2013, 07:32:33 PM »

Why give credence to the false claims of schismatics and enemies of the Church?
Oddly enough, I was wondering the same thing about you.
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« Reply #138 on: August 27, 2013, 07:33:58 PM »

it must have been the Latins that conformed to the trend set by the Kollyvades in this regard? I doubt it

Doubt it not.  The Latins and the Nikonians have both made the Kollyvades teaching on frequency of communion their official doctrine.  

They are parts of the same church.  

St. Ignatius of Antioch begs to differ.

I'll probably get punished for saying this, but it's true:  Your argument is not intelligent enough to merit a rejoinder.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:50:53 PM by Dionysii » Logged
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« Reply #139 on: August 27, 2013, 07:37:31 PM »

it must have been the Latins that conformed to the trend set by the Kollyvades in this regard? I doubt it
Doubt it not.  The Latins and the Nikonians have both made the Kollyvades teaching on frequency of communion their official doctrine. 

They are parts of the same church. 
That is an absurd claim.

It's true.  They go to church together and pray together - all the time. 
They have communed together for many decades, and everybody knows it and sees it.



Two things:

Firstly, you made that statement in connection to your claims about  the Kollyvades movement. Stop entangling other topics into this thread.

Secondly, despite the idividual actions of some priests and bishops, none of the Canonical Orthodox Churches recognize the roman catholic church's sacraments, they are therefore, per definition, not the same church.

I know this thread has already moved far beyond your absurd claims about St. Seraphim, but could we please try and finish one discussion before starting another?
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« Reply #140 on: August 27, 2013, 07:39:37 PM »

it must have been the Latins that conformed to the trend set by the Kollyvades in this regard? I doubt it

Doubt it not.  The Latins and the Nikonians have both made the Kollyvades teaching on frequency of communion their official doctrine. 

They are parts of the same church. 

St. Ignatius of Antioch begs to differ.

I'll probably get punished for saying this, but it's true:  You're a moron.

What a delightfully intelligent argument.
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« Reply #141 on: August 27, 2013, 07:41:13 PM »

it must have been the Latins that conformed to the trend set by the Kollyvades in this regard? I doubt it

Doubt it not.  The Latins and the Nikonians have both made the Kollyvades teaching on frequency of communion their official doctrine. 

They are parts of the same church. 

St. Ignatius of Antioch begs to differ.

I'll probably get punished for saying this, but it's true:  You're a moron.

Yeah, you'll get into trouble.
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« Reply #142 on: August 27, 2013, 07:48:15 PM »

despite the idividual actions of some priests and bishops, none of the Canonical Orthodox Churches recognize the roman catholic church's sacraments, they are therefore, per definition, not the same church.

1) The actions of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Pope of Rome characterize the body which they lead.  

2) True enough that the canonical orthodox church does not recognize the sacraments of Frankish heretics.  However, the Patriarchate of Constantinople is not canonical, it's not orthodox, and it's not a church.  

To be precise, the Patriarchates of Constantinople and Moscow are heresies in communion with the pope in Rome.  
The photographs of these leaders in communion with each other since the Patr. Athenagoras and Pope Paul in the  1960's are available all over the internet.  

I have even heard of a source that asserted Patriarch Kyrill wears the robes of a western cardinal in his private Moscow office when not in public.
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« Reply #143 on: August 27, 2013, 07:49:09 PM »

it must have been the Latins that conformed to the trend set by the Kollyvades in this regard? I doubt it

Doubt it not.  The Latins and the Nikonians have both made the Kollyvades teaching on frequency of communion their official doctrine.  

They are parts of the same church.  

St. Ignatius of Antioch begs to differ.

I'll probably get punished for saying this, but it's true:  You're a moron.

What a delightfully intelligent argument.

If only it had been preceded by one.  I will only stoop so low.

EDIT:
Reasonable enough.  I modified it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:51:37 PM by Dionysii » Logged
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« Reply #144 on: August 27, 2013, 07:52:46 PM »

I have even heard of a source that asserted Patriarch Kyrill wears the robes of a western cardinal in his private Moscow office when not in public.

Proof, or it didn't happen.  Angry
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« Reply #145 on: August 27, 2013, 07:55:03 PM »

despite the idividual actions of some priests and bishops, none of the Canonical Orthodox Churches recognize the roman catholic church's sacraments, they are therefore, per definition, not the same church.

1) The actions of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Pope of Rome characterize the body which they lead.  

2) True enough that the canonical orthodox church does not recognize the sacraments of Frankish heretics.  However, the Patriarchate of Constantinople is not canonical, it's not orthodox, and it's not a church.  

To be precise, the Patriarchates of Constantinople and Moscow are heresies in communion with the pope in Rome.  
The photographs of these leaders in communion with each other since the Patr. Athenagoras and Pope Paul in the  1960's are available all over the internet.  

I have even heard of a source that asserted Patriarch Kyrill wears the robes of a western cardinal in his private Moscow office when not in public.
Again, you are ignoring reality. You admit that we do not share communion and then goes on telling how we are in communion with each other. Do you even know what that word means?
And I would be very happy if you could share with us the "source" about Patriarch Kyrill.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:55:40 PM by Ansgar » Logged

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« Reply #146 on: August 27, 2013, 07:59:42 PM »

If a person died in an accidental fire, such as a boiler exploded or they were the victim of arson, would we say about them, this means he or she can't become a saint? What is so special about dying in a fire?

Since I doubt St. Seraphim deliberately burned himself to death, didn't he essentially die in an unfortunate accident (if that anecdote about him dropping his pipe or something is true)? I mean, I'm sure even hearty tobacco pipe-users don't want to die in fires.

Just a thought.  Huh
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« Reply #147 on: August 27, 2013, 08:01:38 PM »

I have even heard of a source that asserted Patriarch Kyrill wears the robes of a western cardinal in his private Moscow office when not in public.

Proof, or it didn't happen.  Angry
Okay.  I will ask the person who told me that and get back to you.  

In the meantime, it would do you westerners some good to watch 'Mr Smith Goes to Washington'.  
http://vimeo.com/49156759

Although I retract my statement calling Shangaied a "moron", my point was something needs to get you blockheads thinking and questioning the status quo. The fact that you accept these churches the way they are is disturbing to me.  

"You mean you can tell these senators what to do?" - Jimmy Stewart
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« Reply #148 on: August 27, 2013, 08:05:06 PM »

I have even heard of a source that asserted Patriarch Kyrill wears the robes of a western cardinal in his private Moscow office when not in public.

Proof, or it didn't happen.  Angry
Okay.  I will ask the person who told me that and get back to you.  

In the meantime, it would do you westerners some good to watch 'Mr Smith Goes to Washington'.  
http://vimeo.com/49156759

Although I retract my statement calling Shangaied a "moron", my point was something needs to get you blockheads thinking and questioning the status quo. The fact that you accept these churches the way they are is disturbing to me.  

"You mean you can tell these senators what to do?" - Jimmy Stewart
You take back calling a person a moron and then proceed to call us blockheads?
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« Reply #149 on: August 27, 2013, 08:09:22 PM »

You take back calling a person a moron and then proceed to call us blockheads?
That's right.  Furthermore, I think you've got all your energy in the wrong places.
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« Reply #150 on: August 27, 2013, 08:11:56 PM »

it must have been the Latins that conformed to the trend set by the Kollyvades in this regard? I doubt it

Doubt it not.  The Latins and the Nikonians have both made the Kollyvades teaching on frequency of communion their official doctrine.  

They are parts of the same church.  

St. Ignatius of Antioch begs to differ.

I'll probably get punished for saying this, but it's true:  Your argument is not intelligent enough to merit a rejoinder.

"Gather together more frequently to celebrate the Lord's Eucharist and to praise Him," wrote St. Ignatius of Antioch.
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« Reply #151 on: August 27, 2013, 08:12:13 PM »

I mean, I'm sure even hearty tobacco pipe-users don't want to die in fires.

Remember that scene in Ostrov when he started smoking the entire place out? Hmm...   (just kidding)

You take back calling a person a moron and then proceed to call us blockheads?

Perhaps he saw my pic in the other thread and was simply giving an accurate description?  Cool
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« Reply #152 on: August 27, 2013, 08:13:25 PM »

You take back calling a person a moron and then proceed to call us blockheads?
That's right.  Furthermore, I think you've got all your energy in the wrong places.

Care to expand?
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« Reply #153 on: August 27, 2013, 08:17:43 PM »

I just got a pm and was about to open it thinking "well, it was nice being here while it lasted..."
It turned out to be a kind message from my friend Gebre replying to my message sympathizing with him for the way he's been treated on the forum.  Smiley

I mean, I'm sure even hearty tobacco pipe-users don't want to die in fires.

Remember that scene in Ostrov when he started smoking the entire place out? Hmm...   (just kidding)

lol.
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« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2013, 08:32:17 PM »

The Bela Krinitsa are the Eastern Orthodox Church.   
If that were true, they would not be completely dependent upon the "Nikonians" for their orders.

If you better understood apostolic succession, then you would not say that.

At what point in the Church's history has she been completely dependent on heretics to maintain apostolic succession?
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« Reply #155 on: August 27, 2013, 08:32:40 PM »

Although I retract my statement calling Shangaied a "moron", my point was something needs to get you blockheads thinking and questioning the status quo. The fact that you accept these churches the way they are is disturbing to me. 

"You mean you can tell these senators what to do?" - Jimmy Stewart

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On one occasion some heretics came to Abba Poimen and began to slander the Archbishop of Alexandria, saying that he had received his ordination from priests. The Elder was silent, then he called his disciple and told him: ”Set the table, give them to eat and dismiss them in peace”.

Moral: Is it a layman's business to superintend his bishop or the other way around?
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« Reply #156 on: August 27, 2013, 08:33:59 PM »

I definitely plan to visit Russia. My fiancee and I are considering getting married in Russia (in a Bela Krinits Church, of course).

How's that divorce coming?

Don't know what I'm talking about? Weren't you still married, back in March?

Since my wife is a poor Honduran that cooks with wood in a mountain village, does not speak english, and worked as a cleaning lady for the equivalent of US$40 a month before we met[....]

If you're going to troll us, you should take some pains to get your story straight.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 08:35:04 PM by Keble » Logged
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« Reply #157 on: August 27, 2013, 08:35:13 PM »

All I know is, the longer I hang out around here the more confused I get.
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« Reply #158 on: August 27, 2013, 08:43:24 PM »

Weren't you still married, back in March?
Since my wife is a poor Honduran that cooks with wood in a mountain village, does not speak english, and worked as a cleaning lady for the equivalent of US$40 a month before we met[....]

We are married in the secular government, but we have not yet been married in Church. 
That is why I say my fiancee. 
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« Reply #159 on: August 27, 2013, 08:57:57 PM »

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« Reply #160 on: August 27, 2013, 09:15:50 PM »

Weren't you still married, back in March?
Since my wife is a poor Honduran that cooks with wood in a mountain village, does not speak english, and worked as a cleaning lady for the equivalent of US$40 a month before we met[....]

We are married in the secular government, but we have not yet been married in Church.  
That is why I say my fiancee.  

I remain dubious.

Also, if you are going to send a message to someone calling them a "n-gg-r", I would advise you to either (a) learn what the word actually means, or (b) get at least a photo of the person in question.

Anyway, I'm done here.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 09:20:56 PM by Keble » Logged
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« Reply #161 on: August 27, 2013, 09:29:58 PM »

I would advise you to get at least a photo of the person in question.
Permission granted to post a photo of yourself.
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« Reply #162 on: August 27, 2013, 09:41:54 PM »

Anyway, I'm done here.
Good riddance.  Don't come back because you are uncivilized and degenerate.

People who seek to lead normal, holy lives like us are not interest in the comments of old perverts like yourself.
You ignorant comments reflect your own degenerate mindset.

At what point in the Church's history has she been completely dependent on heretics to maintain apostolic succession?

Heretics of the second rank - an important distinction.  All the bishops were annihilated in the late 1600's. 
The hierarchy was renewed circa 1846 with Saint Ambrose of Bosnia.
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« Reply #163 on: August 27, 2013, 09:47:00 PM »

Anyway, I'm done here.
Good riddance.  Don't come back because you are uncivilized and degenerate.

People who seek to lead normal, holy lives like us are not interest in the comments of old perverts like yourself.
You ignorant comments reflect your own degenerate mindset.

Ok, I've come to the conclusion that Dionysii is just a parody version created by someone on the forum.  Now I just need to figure out who it is.  There is no way someone seriously writes this stuff and actually believes it.

Orthonorm, is that you?  Clever job, my man.  Well done. I take back all the bad things I said about you.
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« Reply #164 on: August 27, 2013, 09:55:50 PM »

Anyway, I'm done here.
Good riddance.  Don't come back because you are uncivilized and degenerate.

People who seek to lead normal, holy lives like us are not interest in the comments of old perverts like yourself.
You ignorant comments reflect your own degenerate mindset.

Ok, I've come to the conclusion that Dionysii is just a parody version created by someone on the forum.  Now I just need to figure out who it is.  There is no way someone seriously writes this stuff and actually believes it.

Orthonorm, is that you?  Clever job, my man.  Well done. I take back all the bad things I said about you.

Considering the nature of the slew of nasty messages I have recently sent his way, I doubt Keble concurs with your conclusion.
 You are hereby banned for sending nasty and threatening PMs and for trolling the forum.  Good bye and good riddance!

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« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 09:56:11 PM by Dionysii » Logged
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« Reply #165 on: August 27, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »

There's no rule against submitting racist posts to this forum, as long as they don't violate any other rules.
I appreciate your admitting that.  That says a mouthful.

Postscript:
If this is true, then I intend to broadcast it outside of this forum.  It says a lot about the nature of this forum.

We are married in the secular government, but we have not yet been married in Church. 
That is why I say my fiancee. 

...
Also, if you are going to send a message to someone calling them a "n-gg-r", I would advise you to either (a) learn what the word actually means, or (b) get at least a photo of the person in question.
...

Well that's interesting...  angel
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« Reply #166 on: August 27, 2013, 10:03:10 PM »

Thus endeth the forum life of one of the more peculiar members at oc.net.
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« Reply #167 on: August 27, 2013, 11:14:38 PM »

Thus endeth the forum life of one of the more peculiar members at oc.net.

... and not before time, too.  Tongue
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« Reply #168 on: August 28, 2013, 06:05:06 AM »

And we'll never find out what caused the meltdown. Tongue
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« Reply #169 on: August 28, 2013, 06:06:57 AM »

And we'll never find out what caused the meltdown. Tongue

Indeed. Schade, schade.  Wink
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 06:07:11 AM by LBK » Logged
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« Reply #170 on: August 28, 2013, 06:41:14 AM »

I'm doing a little Seraphiming myself.  Enjoying a pipe.

Very good.  What has St. Seraphim inspired you to put in your bowl?

Once again, there is no evidence St. Seraphim was a smoker. Why give credence to the false claims of schismatics and enemies of the Church?
Oh Pa, I was jus funnin.

Even a serious dude like me can have some fun.  But I really did smoke my pipe.  Doing it right now too.
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« Reply #171 on: August 28, 2013, 06:55:58 AM »

I'm doing a little Seraphiming myself.  Enjoying a pipe.

Very good.  What has St. Seraphim inspired you to put in your bowl?

Once again, there is no evidence St. Seraphim was a smoker. Why give credence to the false claims of schismatics and enemies of the Church?

Just being facetious.  I do enjoy a good tobacco once in a while.  I think this thread has given enough credence to this guy as it is.
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« Reply #172 on: August 31, 2013, 05:29:22 AM »

 Smiley Have been asked many a time, "Smoke?", to which on my more liverish days I respond, "No, but I steam real good".
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« Reply #173 on: August 31, 2013, 06:21:04 AM »

Smiley Have been asked many a time, "Smoke?", to which on my more liverish days I respond, "No, but I steam real good".
I'm enjoying a pipe again right now.  I've had some vacation days so I actually have the time to smoke my pipe, but have to go back to work next week.
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« Reply #174 on: August 31, 2013, 12:26:23 PM »

Smiley Have been asked many a time, "Smoke?", to which on my more liverish days I respond, "No, but I steam real good".
I'm enjoying a pipe again right now.  I've had some vacation days so I actually have the time to smoke my pipe, but have to go back to work next week.

If your pipe smoking has led you to study dead languages like other great pipe smokers, then at least it's done something productive.
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« Reply #175 on: September 04, 2013, 01:26:01 PM »

I definitely plan to visit Russia. My fiancee and I are considering getting married in Russia (in a Bela Krinits Church, of course).

How's that divorce coming?

Don't know what I'm talking about? Weren't you still married, back in March?

Since my wife is a poor Honduran that cooks with wood in a mountain village, does not speak english, and worked as a cleaning lady for the equivalent of US$40 a month before we met[....]

If you're going to troll us, you should take some pains to get your story straight.

PWNED
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« Reply #176 on: September 05, 2013, 12:56:12 AM »

ETERNAL MEMORY
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ilyazhito
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« Reply #177 on: September 29, 2013, 05:27:56 PM »

What bones do you guys have to pick with St. Seraphim of Sarov? He is one of the greatest saints of Russia, and a good example of a modern monastic (Modern in an Orthodox sense). The guy said "Cultivate the spirit of peace and thousands about thee shall be saved.@
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Maria
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« Reply #178 on: September 29, 2013, 06:00:03 PM »

What bones do you guys have to pick with St. Seraphim of Sarov? He is one of the greatest saints of Russia, and a good example of a modern monastic (Modern in an Orthodox sense). The guy Saint said "Cultivate the spirit of peace and thousands about thee shall be saved.@

Exactly.

BTW, I fixed it for you.

p.s. I edited the title too.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 06:03:02 PM by Maria » Logged

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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #179 on: September 29, 2013, 07:55:02 PM »

p.s. I edited the title too.
You didn't need to. There's no forum requirement that an Old Believer must recognize a monk of the 'Nikonian' church as a saint, especially when doing so would destroy his criticism of the monk.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 08:02:45 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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