Topic: Hispanics in America leaving Catholism for Islam...

[JoeS2]

Just how prevalent is this?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/22/Report-Hispanics-in-America-Leaving-Catholicism-for-Islam

[Alpo]

Hispanics looking for non-White religion?

[Theophilos78]

Hispanics looking for non-White religion?

Maybe they are looking for a paradise full of white virgins ...

[GabrieltheCelt]

Hispanics looking for non-White religion?

 Christianity began in the Middle East.  Orthodoxy is Eastern still.

[JoeS2]

Hispanics looking for non-White religion?

 Christianity began in the Middle East.  Orthodoxy is Eastern still.

I guess my question should have been: "What in Islam is enticing enough for Catholics to switch religions"?

[Alpo]

Hispanics looking for non-White religion?

 Christianity began in the Middle East.  Orthodoxy is Eastern still.

"Christianity" doesn't mean White Anglo-Saxon Protestantism for Americans?

[Wandile]

Just how prevalent is this?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/22/Report-Hispanics-in-America-Leaving-Catholicism-for-Islam

not prevalent at all lol. I haven't heard anything about this until you brought it up to be honest

[xOrthodox4Christx]

Just how prevalent is this?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/22/Report-Hispanics-in-America-Leaving-Catholicism-for-Islam

not prevalent at all lol. I haven't heard anything about this until you brought it up to be honest

Well, I have heard of many Latino converts to Islam that have tried to plot jihad on American soil plenty of times.

[dzheremi]

Just how prevalent is this?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/22/Report-Hispanics-in-America-Leaving-Catholicism-for-Islam

Not very. Didn't you read the article? There are maybe 100-200,000 Hispanic Muslims in the United States, out of a population of 50 million Hispanics. That is less than half of 1% of the population. There are way more non-Hispanic white converts to Islam in America.

I've never met even a single Hispanic person who cares for Islam at all, with the possible exception of one mixed up guy from Argentina who was of Syrian descent (there are a lot of Lebanese and Syrian-descended people in Latin America) who converted to Islam post-9/11. What can you say...there are gullible fools of every race, culture, or background. Que pena. No matter what the media is telling you, most Hispanics remain some kind of Christian (Orthodoxy is certainly increasing among Latinos, too! How about a story on that, secular media?), and are quite adverse to Islam, thank God.

[Samn!]

Yeah, this is basically just right-wing websites trying to combine fears of immigrants with fear of Islam..... not actually a thing.

[JamesR]

Bull. Most Hispanics stayed lapsed Papists their entire lives.

[lovesupreme]

Read the first few comments on this article and you'll understand the sort of audience that worries about this sort of "epidemic."

[Mor Ephrem]

Yeah, this is basically just right-wing websites trying to combine fears of immigrants with fear of Islam..... not actually a thing.

To be fair, I first saw this on the BBC.  Unless I'm exceptionally stupid, the BBC doesn't really strike me as a right-wing establishment.   

[JoeS2]

Yeah, this is basically just right-wing websites trying to combine fears of immigrants with fear of Islam..... not actually a thing.

I don't think this is a right wing issue or a left wing issue for that matter.  If, If this is happening on a much larger scale than we imagine the question begs what could be the cause of these conversions.  Mor, did the BBC go into detail as to the reasons for this?

[Mor Ephrem]

Mor, did the BBC go into detail as to the reasons for this?

Not really, it just noted a phenomenon and presented conversion to Islam in a positive light.  It's a three minute fluff video with a cute baby.  Everyone loves babies. 

[lovesupreme]

Mor, did the BBC go into detail as to the reasons for this?

Not really, it just noted a phenomenon and presented conversion to Islam in a positive light.  It's a three minute fluff video with a cute baby.  Everyone loves babies. 

Maybe it's the leftist apologist in me speaking, but I didn't find the video overly positive. It tried to garner sympathy for the recent convert, who was having difficulties with his family, and it showed off the mosque in the Latino community. Overall, it was a pretty neutral piece (as much as a piece from BBC on Islam can be neutral).

I'd be curious to hear more about the thought process for converting. Are they told that they can still "honor" Mary and Christ in Islam? How do they reconcile the Jesus of Christianity with the "Isa" of Islam?

[dzheremi]

I live in a Hispanic-majority city in a heavily Hispanic part of the country. I can guarantee that the vast majority of those who go to the mosque here are not Hispanics, but various flavors of Arabs, Africans, and South Asians.

However, I also know that across the street from the mosque -- which is right next to the airport, so it's one of the first things that you see when arriving in the city and heading into the downtown center -- there is a big billboard that asks "Why Islam?" and proclaims Islam to be the faith of Jesus, Abraham, Moses, etc. Chances are converts to Islam from any background have bought off on that particular (false) idea: The patriarchs and prophets (and, yes, Christ and Mary, too) that have traditionally been associated with Judaism and/or Christianity were really Muslims, so I should be too.

I've brought up over the Agape meal the idea of putting up our own billboard to counteract that message, but so far have been told it's too ambitious/not economically feasible. Shame. Something like "Orthodox Christianity: It wasn't started by a violent illiterate in a cave in the middle of nowhere...plus you can prostrate, fast, and chant in Arabic in worship, if that's appealing to you" would certainly turn heads...particularly if it were also placed across the street from the mosque.

[Mor Ephrem]

Maybe it's the leftist apologist in me speaking, but I didn't find the video overly positive. It tried to garner sympathy for the recent convert, who was having difficulties with his family, and it showed off the mosque in the Latino community. Overall, it was a pretty neutral piece (as much as a piece from BBC on Islam can be neutral).

The sympathy angle is one reason I thought it was an overall positive reflection of Islam.  Here's this formerly fervent RC with his formerly fervent RC spouse, enraged over 9-11 and hating on Islam until they actually learn about it.  Then they're sold on it, convert, and have a lovely little family together.  They even lay the cute baby on the prayer rug while they do prostrations (it looks like playtime!).  The only problem is that the guy's parents are prejudiced against their son's new faith, proclaiming it unpatriotic and not allowing him to come home.  Poor, persecuted Muslims harassed by "patriotic" "American" "Christians" with precious little "family values".

[dzheremi]

I remember a similar sob story from an acquaintance of mine, a white woman, who converted to Islam some years ago from a Protestant Christian background. She would complain about how her family treats her differently, they don't accept her new beliefs, they're distant to her, some of them are nervous having her around their children now, etc. Granted, all of this is absolutely explainable by the fact that she now wears the prescribed female Islamic dress at all times, and insists on having her own beliefs presented as on equal footing with those of her still-Christian family members. I told her that, rather than it being unfair that the rest of her family does not treat her like she's the same person she was before she converted, it is absolutely fair that they treat her differently now, since she is not the same person since she converted. Duh. Muslims are such babies. I converted to Orthodoxy around the same time that my father converted to his Filipino anti-Christian cult ("Iglesia Ni Cristo"; yuck)...you don't think that causes conflict? Conflict is part and parcel of having deeply-held beliefs that don't agree with whatever the majority believes.

I feel no sympathy for Catholic (or other) converts to Islam. They're deceived, confused fools, desperate for meaning that they cannot find in their bankrupt spiritualities, and hence latch on to simpler but also bankrupt Islamic ways. Given the population we're talking about, the saying patadas de ahogado (the kicks of a drowning man) comes to mind...

[ialmisry]

I remember a similar sob story from an acquaintance of mine, a white woman, who converted to Islam some years ago from a Protestant Christian background. She would complain about how her family treats her differently, they don't accept her new beliefs, they're distant to her, some of them are nervous having her around their children now, etc. Granted, all of this is absolutely explainable by the fact that she now wears the prescribed female Islamic dress at all times, and insists on having her own beliefs presented as on equal footing with those of her still-Christian family members. I told her that, rather than it being unfair that the rest of her family does not treat her like she's the same person she was before she converted, it is absolutely fair that they treat her differently now, since she is not the same person since she converted. Duh. Muslims are such babies. I converted to Orthodoxy around the same time that my father converted to his Filipino anti-Christian cult ("Iglesia Ni Cristo"; yuck)...you don't think that causes conflict? Conflict is part and parcel of having deeply-held beliefs that don't agree with whatever the majority believes.

I feel no sympathy for Catholic (or other) converts to Islam. They're deceived, confused fools, desperate for meaning that they cannot find in their bankrupt spiritualities, and hence latch on to simpler but also bankrupt Islamic ways. Given the population we're talking about, the saying patadas de ahogado (the kicks of a drowning man) comes to mind...

+1

Somewhere I missed that you were Hispanic/Spanish.

Interesting that what these converts are complaining about are the exact things that Christ promises His converts.

[ialmisry]

I live in a Hispanic-majority city in a heavily Hispanic part of the country. I can guarantee that the vast majority of those who go to the mosque here are not Hispanics, but various flavors of Arabs, Africans, and South Asians.

However, I also know that across the street from the mosque -- which is right next to the airport, so it's one of the first things that you see when arriving in the city and heading into the downtown center -- there is a big billboard that asks "Why Islam?" and proclaims Islam to be the faith of Jesus, Abraham, Moses, etc. Chances are converts to Islam from any background have bought off on that particular (false) idea: The patriarchs and prophets (and, yes, Christ and Mary, too) that have traditionally been associated with Judaism and/or Christianity were really Muslims, so I should be too.

I've brought up over the Agape meal the idea of putting up our own billboard to counteract that message, but so far have been told it's too ambitious/not economically feasible. Shame. Something like "Orthodox Christianity: It wasn't started by a violent illiterate in a cave in the middle of nowhere...plus you can prostrate, fast, and chant in Arabic in worship, if that's appealing to you" would certainly turn heads...particularly if it were also placed across the street from the mosque.

LOL.

You left out "and pray 7 times a day, rather than just 5x.  But you can't practice pedophilia, or marry your daughter-in-law."

[ialmisry]

Just how prevalent is this?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/22/Report-Hispanics-in-America-Leaving-Catholicism-for-Islam

Not very. Didn't you read the article? There are maybe 100-200,000 Hispanic Muslims in the United States, out of a population of 50 million Hispanics. That is less than half of 1% of the population. There are way more non-Hispanic white converts to Islam in America.

I've never met even a single Hispanic person who cares for Islam at all, with the possible exception of one mixed up guy from Argentina who was of Syrian descent (there are a lot of Lebanese and Syrian-descended people in Latin America) who converted to Islam post-9/11. What can you say...there are gullible fools of every race, culture, or background. Que pena. No matter what the media is telling you, most Hispanics remain some kind of Christian (Orthodoxy is certainly increasing among Latinos, too! How about a story on that, secular media?), and are quite adverse to Islam, thank God.

In the '90's it was chic to claim Moorish blood, and go so far as to "revert" to Islam.  I wonder how the Madrid bombing affected that.

[Mor Ephrem]

I live in a Hispanic-majority city in a heavily Hispanic part of the country. I can guarantee that the vast majority of those who go to the mosque here are not Hispanics, but various flavors of Arabs, Africans, and South Asians.

However, I also know that across the street from the mosque -- which is right next to the airport, so it's one of the first things that you see when arriving in the city and heading into the downtown center -- there is a big billboard that asks "Why Islam?" and proclaims Islam to be the faith of Jesus, Abraham, Moses, etc. Chances are converts to Islam from any background have bought off on that particular (false) idea: The patriarchs and prophets (and, yes, Christ and Mary, too) that have traditionally been associated with Judaism and/or Christianity were really Muslims, so I should be too.

I've brought up over the Agape meal the idea of putting up our own billboard to counteract that message, but so far have been told it's too ambitious/not economically feasible. Shame. Something like "Orthodox Christianity: It wasn't started by a violent illiterate in a cave in the middle of nowhere...plus you can prostrate, fast, and chant in Arabic in worship, if that's appealing to you" would certainly turn heads...particularly if it were also placed across the street from the mosque.

LOL.

You left out "and pray 7 times a day, rather than just 5x.  But you can't practice pedophilia, or marry your daughter-in-law."

I love you two. 

[Peter J]

... The study concludes that the best estimate of Muslims in the United States is 2.8 million at most, compared to the 6 million figure used by many researchers and Muslim organizations. Muslim leaders said the report was an attempt to undercut their influence.

- http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_islam_usa.html

Granted of course that doesn't directly tell us the number of Hispanics Muslims in America; but maybe the people who believe they are 100,000+ Hispanics Muslims in America are the same people who believe there are 6 million American Muslims overall.

[dzheremi]

Somewhere I missed that you were Hispanic/Spanish.

My grandmother came to this country as a child from Mexico City. I don't often self-identify that way unless it's to make some sort of point related to it, as in this thread. My family is pretty white, especially now that all my Mexican relatives are dead, and I'm the only one alive who speaks the language.

Interesting that what these converts are complaining about are the exact things that Christ promises His converts.

Yep. People want an easy life, regardless of where they come from. Hence why Christianity is, and always will be, very unpopular.

In the '90's it was chic to claim Moorish blood, and go so far as to "revert" to Islam.  I wonder how the Madrid bombing affected that.

Yes, I've seen this tendency among some people in Iberia. Stupid...willingly submitting to the religion that slaughtered and oppressed their forefathers. I don't interact with many people from Spain (though I guess it's safe to say that many people in Albuquerque have at least partial Spanish blood, given the Spanish history here), but I highly doubt that any of the various Latinos (Mexicans, Colombians, etc.) I know would convert to Islam for any reason. The people who do are generally of Middle Eastern heritage, and even then are only a small percentage within those Middle Eastern-descended communities, as most of the established Arab-Latino communities are Christian, same as their Syrian/Lebanese/Iraqi forefathers who fled from the Ottoman Empire to Latin America in the first place. There are, of course, some exceptions to this (Carlos Menem, former president of Argentina and Syrian by heritage, was an Alawite but converted to Catholicism)

[JoeS2]

Somewhere I missed that you were Hispanic/Spanish.

My grandmother came to this country as a child from Mexico City. I don't often self-identify that way unless it's to make some sort of point related to it, as in this thread. My family is pretty white, especially now that all my Mexican relatives are dead, and I'm the only one alive who speaks the language.

Interesting that what these converts are complaining about are the exact things that Christ promises His converts.

Yep. People want an easy life, regardless of where they come from. Hence why Christianity is, and always will be, very unpopular.

In the '90's it was chic to claim Moorish blood, and go so far as to "revert" to Islam.  I wonder how the Madrid bombing affected that.

Yes, I've seen this tendency among some people in Iberia. Stupid...willingly submitting to the religion that slaughtered and oppressed their forefathers. I don't interact with many people from Spain (though I guess it's safe to say that many people in Albuquerque have at least partial Spanish blood, given the Spanish history here), but I highly doubt that any of the various Latinos (Mexicans, Colombians, etc.) I know would convert to Islam for any reason. The people who do are generally of Middle Eastern heritage, and even then are only a small percentage within those Middle Eastern-descended communities, as most of the established Arab-Latino communities are Christian, same as their Syrian/Lebanese/Iraqi forefathers who fled from the Ottoman Empire to Latin America in the first place. There are, of course, some exceptions to this (Carlos Menem, former president of Argentina and Syrian by heritage, was an Alawite but converted to Catholicism)

I think just the notoriety of a Hispanic converting to Islam in this day and age (barring the Moorish conversions in Spain) does seem somewhat newsworthy, although I personally think that Hispanics who loose their faith usually dont convert at all.

[ialmisry]

Somewhere I missed that you were Hispanic/Spanish.

My grandmother came to this country as a child from Mexico City. I don't often self-identify that way unless it's to make some sort of point related to it, as in this thread. My family is pretty white, especially now that all my Mexican relatives are dead, and I'm the only one alive who speaks the language.

Interesting that what these converts are complaining about are the exact things that Christ promises His converts.

Yep. People want an easy life, regardless of where they come from. Hence why Christianity is, and always will be, very unpopular.

In the '90's it was chic to claim Moorish blood, and go so far as to "revert" to Islam.  I wonder how the Madrid bombing affected that.

Yes, I've seen this tendency among some people in Iberia. Stupid...willingly submitting to the religion that slaughtered and oppressed their forefathers. I don't interact with many people from Spain (though I guess it's safe to say that many people in Albuquerque have at least partial Spanish blood, given the Spanish history here), but I highly doubt that any of the various Latinos (Mexicans, Colombians, etc.) I know would convert to Islam for any reason. The people who do are generally of Middle Eastern heritage, and even then are only a small percentage within those Middle Eastern-descended communities, as most of the established Arab-Latino communities are Christian, same as their Syrian/Lebanese/Iraqi forefathers who fled from the Ottoman Empire to Latin America in the first place. There are, of course, some exceptions to this (Carlos Menem, former president of Argentina and Syrian by heritage, was an Alawite but converted to Catholicism)

I think just the notoriety of a Hispanic converting to Islam in this day and age (barring the Moorish conversions in Spain) does seem somewhat newsworthy, although I personally think that Hispanics who loose their faith usually dont convert at all.

Hispanics embracing Islam are dwarfed by the myriads becoming Protestants, in the US and Latin America.

[Apotheoun]

I remember a similar sob story from an acquaintance of mine, a white woman, who converted to Islam some years ago from a Protestant Christian background. She would complain about how her family treats her differently, they don't accept her new beliefs, they're distant to her, some of them are nervous having her around their children now, etc. Granted, all of this is absolutely explainable by the fact that she now wears the prescribed female Islamic dress at all times, and insists on having her own beliefs presented as on equal footing with those of her still-Christian family members. I told her that, rather than it being unfair that the rest of her family does not treat her like she's the same person she was before she converted, it is absolutely fair that they treat her differently now, since she is not the same person since she converted. Duh. Muslims are such babies. I converted to Orthodoxy around the same time that my father converted to his Filipino anti-Christian cult ("Iglesia Ni Cristo"; yuck)...you don't think that causes conflict? Conflict is part and parcel of having deeply-held beliefs that don't agree with whatever the majority believes.

I feel no sympathy for Catholic (or other) converts to Islam. They're deceived, confused fools, desperate for meaning that they cannot find in their bankrupt spiritualities, and hence latch on to simpler but also bankrupt Islamic ways. Given the population we're talking about, the saying patadas de ahogado (the kicks of a drowning man) comes to mind...

Another great post by dzheremi.

[JamesR]

Stupid...willingly submitting to the religion that slaughtered and oppressed their forefathers.

Playing Devil's advocate here, but, can't the same be said about Hispanics who zealously hold onto Roman Catholicism--the religion that slaughtered and oppressed their/our forefathers?

[JoeS2]

Hispanics embracing Islam are dwarfed by the myriads becoming Protestants, in the US and Latin America.

The Evangelical/ Pentecostals have had a pronounced influence on the Mexican Christians in the last 50 or so years.   My daughter in law and her husband, both are Hispanics, were RC's but joined an Evangelical Group and are very happy there.   I asked them if they were 'Protestant', they replied " of course not we are Christians "... There you go.....I just left it alone.

[augustin717]

Hispanics embracing Islam are dwarfed by the myriads becoming Protestants, in the US and Latin America.

The Evangelical/ Pentecostals have had a pronounced influence on the Mexican Christians in the last 50 or so years.   My daughter in law and her husband, both are Hispanics, were RC's but joined an Evangelical Group and are very happy there.   I asked them if they were 'Protestant', they replied " of course not we are Christians "... There you go.....I just left it alone.

I dunno. The phenomenon certainly exists, but at least among the hispanics of Chicago, it doesn't seem big. Sure you have all those store-front Spanish speaking evangelical churches, but they are very small. Knowing many Mexicans and other Latin-Americans, I have only met a couple of evangelicals among the Puerto Ricans. Mexicans were always
RC. Although not really caring about it all that much from what I can tell.

[hecma925]

Hispanics embracing Islam are dwarfed by the myriads becoming Protestants, in the US and Latin America.

The Evangelical/ Pentecostals have had a pronounced influence on the Mexican Christians in the last 50 or so years.   My daughter in law and her husband, both are Hispanics, were RC's but joined an Evangelical Group and are very happy there.   I asked them if they were 'Protestant', they replied " of course not we are Christians "... There you go.....I just left it alone.

Hahhahaha, I've used that response before to show how above denominationalism I was.

I see these articles pop up every other year, either from an inner-city or feminist perspective.  The vast majority of Muslims in Latin America are Middle-Eastern/African immigrants or second-generation foks.  It is interesting that second-, third-, and even fourth-generation Americans of Hispanic ancestry submit to Islam.  One common thread that I have seen is that those who convert were not strong in their original faith, RC or Protestant.  They were cultural Christians at best, got tired of seeing hypocrisy or immodesty, and got educated in Islam.  It's really sad.  They then become hyper-arabs, but that goes for most converts to Islam.