Author Topic: Answering Catholic apologists  (Read 3871 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,348
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2013, 09:55:40 AM »
Sidebar:  This is the best diversion of a thread I have read to date.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,753
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Confederate Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2013, 09:58:52 AM »
Mice were actually quite an improvement over having to type all this stuff or using a shell named dos. I know it will strike some as odd that they could fit a shell inside the computer, but computers were larger in those days.
First mice and now turtle-computers?  Were the turtle computers mobile even if a bit slow?  Truly the ancient world must have been a sight to behold.

Dual natures?  Hypostatic union?  Was it a turtle that became computer or a computer that became turtle?  Did the turtle essence become subsumed to the computer nature, or vice versa?  A Council must be summoned!
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,506
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2013, 10:04:19 AM »
3. Roman Catholics are wrong because they ascribe to Augustine (who, btw, is not really a saint) and his heretical teachings.

No saint is perfect, not even in his writings.  I assume then that you regard Isasc the SYrian and Gregory of Nyssa as non-saints because of some of their doctrines that have been repudiated.  This anti-Augustinianism of yours (and lots of other Orthodox too) makes me sick.  Show me one father, just one, who preached more about repentance than Augustine.  His theology is consistent with theosis.  And some of our great fathers such as Photios the Great and Mark of Ephesus considered Augustine as a saint.  Who are you to say otherwise?

You may want to lay off the Fr. John Romanides' books for awhile.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline Gamliel

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,512
  • ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστον βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2013, 10:26:22 AM »
Goarch calendar commemorates him on June 15 and calls him, "Augustine the Blessed, Bishop of Hippo:"  http://www.goarch.org/chapel/dateceleb_view?m=6&d=15&y=2013    I usually hear his name as St. Augustine. :-\
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 10:27:08 AM by Gamliel »

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,348
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2013, 10:27:35 AM »
3. Roman Catholics are wrong because they ascribe to Augustine (who, btw, is not really a saint) and his heretical teachings.

No saint is perfect, not even in his writings.  I assume then that you regard Isasc the SYrian and Gregory of Nyssa as non-saints because of some of their doctrines that have been repudiated.  This anti-Augustinianism of yours (and lots of other Orthodox too) makes me sick.  Show me one father, just one, who preached more about repentance than Augustine.  His theology is consistent with theosis.  And some of our great fathers such as Photios the Great and Mark of Ephesus considered Augustine as a saint.  Who are you to say otherwise?

You may want to lay off the Fr. John Romanides' books for awhile.
Without speaking for Nephi, I think he was using sarcasm and humor to demonstrate those are things that lousy Orthodox apologists would say, not that he believes that for himself.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,514
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2013, 10:31:12 AM »
Goarch calendar commemorates him on June 15 and calls him, "Augustine the Blessed, Bishop of Hippo:"  http://www.goarch.org/chapel/dateceleb_view?m=6&d=15&y=2013    I usually hear his name as St. Augustine. :-\

But, Blessed = Saint, so...  :police:
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 10:31:27 AM by Asteriktos »
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,506
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2013, 11:33:11 AM »
3. Roman Catholics are wrong because they ascribe to Augustine (who, btw, is not really a saint) and his heretical teachings.

No saint is perfect, not even in his writings.  I assume then that you regard Isasc the SYrian and Gregory of Nyssa as non-saints because of some of their doctrines that have been repudiated.  This anti-Augustinianism of yours (and lots of other Orthodox too) makes me sick.  Show me one father, just one, who preached more about repentance than Augustine.  His theology is consistent with theosis.  And some of our great fathers such as Photios the Great and Mark of Ephesus considered Augustine as a saint.  Who are you to say otherwise?

You may want to lay off the Fr. John Romanides' books for awhile.
Without speaking for Nephi, I think he was using sarcasm and humor to demonstrate those are things that lousy Orthodox apologists would say, not that he believes that for himself.

I don't know him so I wouldn't necessarily perceive that
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,348
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2013, 11:36:31 AM »
3. Roman Catholics are wrong because they ascribe to Augustine (who, btw, is not really a saint) and his heretical teachings.

No saint is perfect, not even in his writings.  I assume then that you regard Isasc the SYrian and Gregory of Nyssa as non-saints because of some of their doctrines that have been repudiated.  This anti-Augustinianism of yours (and lots of other Orthodox too) makes me sick.  Show me one father, just one, who preached more about repentance than Augustine.  His theology is consistent with theosis.  And some of our great fathers such as Photios the Great and Mark of Ephesus considered Augustine as a saint.  Who are you to say otherwise?

You may want to lay off the Fr. John Romanides' books for awhile.
Without speaking for Nephi, I think he was using sarcasm and humor to demonstrate those are things that lousy Orthodox apologists would say, not that he believes that for himself.

I don't know him so I wouldn't necessarily perceive that
It is just something I got from the context of the post. I'm sure he will stop by to clarify.  :)
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,514
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2013, 11:47:33 AM »
I have a theory that the saying "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is itself a sarcastic statement made to embarrass people who don't understand that it is sarcasm and quote it as though it's meant to be taken literally. Very mean!  :police:
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 11:47:59 AM by Asteriktos »
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,348
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »
I have a theory that the saying "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is itself a sarcastic statement made to embarrass people who don't understand that it is sarcasm and quote it as though it's meant to be taken literally. Very mean!  :police:
Further down the rabbit hole we go!  :laugh:
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,218
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2013, 12:12:32 PM »
3. Roman Catholics are wrong because they ascribe to Augustine (who, btw, is not really a saint) and his heretical teachings.

No saint is perfect, not even in his writings.  I assume then that you regard Isasc the SYrian and Gregory of Nyssa as non-saints because of some of their doctrines that have been repudiated.  This anti-Augustinianism of yours (and lots of other Orthodox too) makes me sick.  Show me one father, just one, who preached more about repentance than Augustine.  His theology is consistent with theosis.  And some of our great fathers such as Photios the Great and Mark of Ephesus considered Augustine as a saint.  Who are you to say otherwise?

You may want to lay off the Fr. John Romanides' books for awhile.
Without speaking for Nephi, I think he was using sarcasm and humor to demonstrate those are things that lousy Orthodox apologists would say, not that he believes that for himself.

That's what I was guessing, when I read Nephi's post.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,762
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2013, 12:16:39 PM »
3. Roman Catholics are wrong because they ascribe to Augustine (who, btw, is not really a saint) and his heretical teachings.

No saint is perfect, not even in his writings.  I assume then that you regard Isasc the SYrian and Gregory of Nyssa as non-saints because of some of their doctrines that have been repudiated.  This anti-Augustinianism of yours (and lots of other Orthodox too) makes me sick.  Show me one father, just one, who preached more about repentance than Augustine.  His theology is consistent with theosis.  And some of our great fathers such as Photios the Great and Mark of Ephesus considered Augustine as a saint.  Who are you to say otherwise?

You may want to lay off the Fr. John Romanides' books for awhile.
Without speaking for Nephi, I think he was using sarcasm and humor to demonstrate those are things that lousy Orthodox apologists would say, not that he believes that for himself.

Yes sir. 8)

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,753
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Confederate Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2013, 12:17:18 PM »
I have a theory that the saying "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is itself a sarcastic statement made to embarrass people who don't understand that it is sarcasm and quote it as though it's meant to be taken literally. Very mean!  :police:

Literalism?  For shame!  This only works if sarcasm is literally a wit which is (in the physical realm) at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,762
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2013, 12:19:41 PM »
Goarch calendar commemorates him on June 15 and calls him, "Augustine the Blessed, Bishop of Hippo:"  http://www.goarch.org/chapel/dateceleb_view?m=6&d=15&y=2013    I usually hear his name as St. Augustine. :-\

But, Blessed = Saint, so...  :police:

And interestingly it seems that Blessed is a particularly unique title of affection for St. Augustine. Considering the charge that we often completely overlook him and his writings (including the good), I wonder how he came to be referred to as "Blessed Augustine" among all the other saints.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,348
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2013, 01:19:31 PM »
Goarch calendar commemorates him on June 15 and calls him, "Augustine the Blessed, Bishop of Hippo:"  http://www.goarch.org/chapel/dateceleb_view?m=6&d=15&y=2013    I usually hear his name as St. Augustine. :-\

But, Blessed = Saint, so...  :police:

And interestingly it seems that Blessed is a particularly unique title of affection for St. Augustine. Considering the charge that we often completely overlook him and his writings (including the good), I wonder how he came to be referred to as "Blessed Augustine" among all the other saints.
I have wondered this myself.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,612
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2013, 02:20:33 PM »
No need to provide answers to Catholic apologists. The Catholics who have the answers are broke and had to fire everybody. They can't respond without another $300,000.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 02:21:00 PM by Agabus »
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,753
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Confederate Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2013, 02:20:59 PM »
Goarch calendar commemorates him on June 15 and calls him, "Augustine the Blessed, Bishop of Hippo:"  http://www.goarch.org/chapel/dateceleb_view?m=6&d=15&y=2013    I usually hear his name as St. Augustine. :-\

But, Blessed = Saint, so...  :police:

And interestingly it seems that Blessed is a particularly unique title of affection for St. Augustine. Considering the charge that we often completely overlook him and his writings (including the good), I wonder how he came to be referred to as "Blessed Augustine" among all the other saints.
I have wondered this myself.

One question:  don't Orthodox use the term "Blessed" for people that have not quite been canonized as saints, as the Roman Catholics do?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,612
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2013, 02:25:06 PM »

One question:  don't Orthodox use the term "Blessed" for people that have not quite been canonized as saints, as the Roman Catholics do?
Nope.

It's a descriptor, not a title, e.g. "the blessed Mother of God."
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 02:27:01 PM by Agabus »
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,514
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2013, 02:25:19 PM »
No need to provide answers to Catholic apologists. The Catholics who have the answers are broke and had to fire everybody. They can't respond without another $300,000.

I got an email about that, which I found very confusing. "We fired 945 people but still need a truckload of money to make ends meet. Send us money!"  ???
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,753
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Confederate Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2013, 02:41:54 PM »

One question:  don't Orthodox use the term "Blessed" for people that have not quite been canonized as saints, as the Roman Catholics do?
Nope.

It's a descriptor, not a title, e.g. "the blessed Mother of God."

All right, that makes more sense.  I have seen several icons of Fr. Seraphim Rose floating around and it will say "Blessed Seraphim of Platina"  and I know he hasn't been glorified a saint by any synod.  I know the RC canonization process will have those that have been beatified called "Blessed."
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline Alpo

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,314
  • My borcht recipe is better than your borcht recipe
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2013, 02:51:39 PM »

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,753
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: Confederate Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2013, 02:56:06 PM »
I should have realized.  I stand next to her at Liturgy all the time.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,218
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2013, 03:12:35 PM »
No need to provide answers to Catholic apologists. The Catholics who have the answers are broke and had to fire everybody. They can't respond without another $300,000.

Some people at CAF got dramatic salary cuts.

Thank goodness I wasn't one them!
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Online lovesupreme

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,247
  • This is where I choose to tread
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2013, 08:01:53 PM »
I heard two new ones today:

12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 08:09:53 PM by lovesupreme »

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,348
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2013, 08:29:40 PM »
I heard two new ones today:

12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.

Meh about the first one.  The endless contraception argument to me is just kind of wasting breath.

The second one makes me lol.  What does that even mean? I could make the same argument about all sorts of ridiculous things.  Deism has the ability to contain Christianity, but Christianity cannot contain Deism. My wife's jewelry box can contain her jewelry, but her jewelry cannot contain the jewelry box.  Worst argument ever.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,762
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2013, 08:43:27 PM »
12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

As significant as he is in the English-speaking world, since when is Metropolitan Kallistos is the sole authoritative voice of Orthodoxy?

Online lovesupreme

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,247
  • This is where I choose to tread
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2013, 08:52:57 PM »
12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

As significant as he is in the English-speaking world, since when is Metropolitan Kallistos is the sole authoritative voice of Orthodoxy?

That would be my point, too. It's not like you can just pick any old Orthodox bishop, see if they were ever inconsistent in their writings, and then use that to prove that the Orthodox Faith has changed.

Online lovesupreme

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,247
  • This is where I choose to tread
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2013, 08:55:47 PM »
I heard two new ones today:

12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.

The second one makes me lol.  What does that even mean? I could make the same argument about all sorts of ridiculous things.  Deism has the ability to contain Christianity, but Christianity cannot contain Deism. My wife's jewelry box can contain her jewelry, but her jewelry cannot contain the jewelry box.  Worst argument ever.

The person then said that he didn't want to get into why this was so because it might "confuse" people.

It's an asinine claim to make, for sure. Priding one's own approach by reducing the other approach to not even a complementary one, but a subservient one.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The Purple Demon is gonna get you if you don't watch out!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,348
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2013, 08:58:45 PM »
I heard two new ones today:

12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.

The second one makes me lol.  What does that even mean? I could make the same argument about all sorts of ridiculous things.  Deism has the ability to contain Christianity, but Christianity cannot contain Deism. My wife's jewelry box can contain her jewelry, but her jewelry cannot contain the jewelry box.  Worst argument ever.

The person then said that he didn't want to get into why this was so because it might "confuse" people.

It's an asinine claim to make, for sure. Priding one's own approach by reducing the other approach to not even a complementary one, but a subservient one.
Well, that's fun.  I am so blue I'm greener than purple.  I don't want to get into why this is because it might confuse people.
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

Offline xariskai

  • юродивый/yurodivy
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,536
  • יהוה עזי ומגני
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2013, 09:45:36 PM »
13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.







Online lovesupreme

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,247
  • This is where I choose to tread
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #75 on: August 23, 2013, 10:02:57 PM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,218
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #76 on: August 23, 2013, 10:20:28 PM »
13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.

I'm pretty sure I've never heard that one before. (I think I would remember something that weird.) I have heard the argument that Catholicism has "both lungs", whereas Orthodoxy has only one.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline scamandrius

  • Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,506
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek in exile
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #77 on: August 23, 2013, 11:07:09 PM »
12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

As significant as he is in the English-speaking world, since when is Metropolitan Kallistos is the sole authoritative voice of Orthodoxy?

Since every zealous convert reads his books and almost nothing else and then go on boards like oc.net and show off what they know and what (they think) cradles don't.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 11:07:42 PM by scamandrius »
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,620
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2013, 10:02:49 AM »
12. Bishop Kallistos wrote in early editions of The Orthodox Church that the Orthodox agreed with the Catholics on contraception (i.e. that it's forbidden in all circumstances). In later editions, Bishop Kallistos wrote that there is some leeway with contraception. The Orthodox Church has changed its stance in just the last 50 years.

As significant as he is in the English-speaking world, since when is Metropolitan Kallistos is the sole authoritative voice of Orthodoxy?

Since every zealous convert reads his books and almost nothing else and then go on boards like oc.net and show off what they know and what (they think) cradles don't.

:)

The only edition of The Orthodox Church that I've read was the first, with the "conservative" position on contraception.  I wonder how much of the perceived change between that and subsequent editions had to do with his subsequent entrance into ordained ministry.  The copy I read was written by "Timothy Ware", a convert to the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad.  The copy I own for my library lists, as author, Kallistos (Timothy) Ware or Metropolitan Kallistos Ware (I forget which), by then a Greek bishop.  Reading one's way into the Church is one thing, but actually living within the Church and working with people is another experience entirely.  There need not be a conflict between the two, but only a more comprehensive understanding of the whole.   
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 10:03:22 AM by Mor Ephrem »
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline JoeS2

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,294
  • St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2013, 10:04:41 AM »
13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.

I'm pretty sure I've never heard that one before. (I think I would remember something that weird.) I have heard the argument that Catholicism has "both lungs", whereas Orthodoxy has only one.

Well, that may explain why I get exhausted at times..... ::)

Offline JoeS2

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,294
  • St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #80 on: August 24, 2013, 10:07:31 AM »
Well, I'm convinced.  Pope Francis, here I come!

Yeah, me too. Get behind me......lets go...

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,218
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #81 on: August 24, 2013, 10:56:56 AM »
13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.

I'm pretty sure I've never heard that one before. (I think I would remember something that weird.) I have heard the argument that Catholicism has "both lungs", whereas Orthodoxy has only one.

Well, that may explain why I get exhausted at times..... ::)

Hey don't make me come over there!  :laugh:
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,514
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2013, 10:57:49 AM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!

Roamin' Orthodox on the other hand... (har har)  :police:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 10:57:55 AM by Asteriktos »
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Online lovesupreme

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,247
  • This is where I choose to tread
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2013, 11:35:36 AM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!

Roamin' Orthodox on the other hand... (har har)  :police:

Or the Romaine Orthodox:

"Lettuce pray to the Lord..."

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,218
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2013, 11:58:53 AM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!

Roamin' Orthodox on the other hand... (har har)  :police:

Or the Romaine Orthodox:

"Lettuce pray to the Lord..."

It has more Mystique that way.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,746
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #85 on: August 24, 2013, 12:00:49 PM »
I heard two new ones today:

13. The West has the ability to contain Eastern thought, but the East cannot contain Western thought.

This is silly. Throughout history there have been Orthodox theologians who have high regard for St. Thomas Aquinas, and I have met some on this very forum who hold similar views.

But even more importantly, western thought is heavily influenced by Greek philosophy, which comes from... wait for it... the East.

Who was the silly-willy who claimed that the East cannot contain western thought?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,476
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #86 on: August 24, 2013, 12:17:47 PM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,620
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #87 on: August 24, 2013, 12:24:14 PM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!


I've seen you post this bishop's photo several times, but I guess I was inactive when you explained who it was.  Who is this Pope?  :)
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline xariskai

  • юродивый/yurodivy
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,536
  • יהוה עזי ומגני
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #88 on: August 24, 2013, 12:59:20 PM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!


I've seen you post this bishop's photo several times, but I guess I was inactive when you explained who it was.  Who is this Pope?  :)
His Grace Bishop Silouan

"Following the decision of the Extraordinary Meeting of the Italian clergy to establish the Romanian Orthodox Episcopate of Italy (Gavedo, 8 May 2007), approved by the Metropolitan Assembly (Limours, 1 June 2007) and the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church (Bucharest, June 21, 2007 ) was chosen as the sole candidate by the electoral college Romanian Orthodox Episcopate of Italy (Paris, 19 February 2008), and the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church elected the first bishop of Italy (Bucharest, March 5, 2008). He was enthroned by Metropolitan Joseph Lucca, on Thursday 8 May 2008."

More info:  http://www.bisericaortodoxafirenze.com/

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,476
Re: Answering Catholic apologists
« Reply #89 on: August 24, 2013, 01:45:42 PM »
It's true, there's no Roman Orthodox!


I've seen you post this bishop's photo several times, but I guess I was inactive when you explained who it was.  Who is this Pope?  :)
His Grace Bishop Silouan

"Following the decision of the Extraordinary Meeting of the Italian clergy to establish the Romanian Orthodox Episcopate of Italy (Gavedo, 8 May 2007), approved by the Metropolitan Assembly (Limours, 1 June 2007) and the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church (Bucharest, June 21, 2007 ) was chosen as the sole candidate by the electoral college Romanian Orthodox Episcopate of Italy (Paris, 19 February 2008), and the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church elected the first bishop of Italy (Bucharest, March 5, 2008). He was enthroned by Metropolitan Joseph Lucca, on Thursday 8 May 2008."

More info:  http://www.bisericaortodoxafirenze.com/
I know the Romanians call priests "Popa" but I'm not sure if they call bishops that.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth