Author Topic: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?  (Read 5287 times)

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Offline WPM

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #90 on: September 01, 2013, 01:58:11 PM »
...that was reiterated by St Philaret of New York...

Was he ever canonised by any of the "official" EO Churches?   

There are hundreds of people throughout history who were never canonized.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #91 on: September 01, 2013, 02:44:12 PM »
There are three Lutheran denominations that I know of: ELCA, Wisconsin Synod and Lutheran Synod. Of the three, I do not think that  is a serious Christian church as it has started to ordain openly homosexual persons.

What's with the homophobia? Why is misguided sexual ethics worse than, say, misguided ecclesiology or Sola Scriptura?

It is not a matter of homophobia; it is action that is contrary to Scripture and Tradition, thus heretical.

So is much of what Lutheranism is. Why to highlight sexual ethics while there are numerous even more problematic issues with Lutheranism?

Again, it is not a matter of sexual ethics; it is a teaching that is clearly contrary to Scripture, a rejection of clearly stated words of God. The other problematic issues are a different matter.  

Sola Scriptura is clearly contrary to Scripture, Lutheran ecclesiology is clearly contrary to Scripture, Lutheran soteriology is clearly contrary to Scripture etc. How those are different issues?

To recap, Carl thinks ELCA is not a serious Christian church, as opposed to the other two major American lutheran denominations. He later clarifies that this is because ELCA are heretical. It would appear then that the Wisconsin and Missouri synods are not heretical in his view.

There is only one True Church--the Eastern Orthodox one of the Seven Ecumenical Councils. There are others who have separated themselves from the True Church over the centuries; however, not all heterodox churches are the same when it comes to degree of differences from the Orthodox church. I firmly believe that the OO and the RC are the closest to the EO. I also believe that those churches that take the Bible seriously, even if they differ from the EO, are serious churches. I think most folks are familiar with Blessed Theophan the Recluse's position that was reiterated by St Philaret of New York (see http://blessedphilaret.blogspot.com/2008/09/will-heterodox-be-saved.html. I personally believe that there is more hope for the serious heterodox than the lukewarm ones who have taken positions against the Word of God. It is not a simple matter of heresy, but a matter of considering heresies in context and their consequences. I submit to you that those who try to heed God's Word are less heretical than those who consciously depart from it, break it for a humanist ideal.

I agree but you haven't explained why misguided sexual ethics is worse than misguided ecclesiology etc.
The problem seems to be definitional. You look at the ELCA and ECUSA policies and practices regarding homosexual conduct to be "misguided sexual ethics." I look at them as deliberate and willful setting aside of clear Biblical teachings. IOW, they constitute rebellion against God Himself and not measly theological, ecclesiological or ethical differences of opinion. What these two heretical denominations have done is to thumb their noses at God.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #92 on: September 01, 2013, 03:12:16 PM »
^^^Right, some beautiful hymns sung in a mildly semi-liturgical setting...pass! I'll take the Book of Common Prayer with a high Anglican mass over that any day. 

You obviously don't know jack about the hey day of the Lutheran Orthodoxy period.  It was as high mass as you can get.  Then the pietists came in and ruined everything.
Hey, I don't hand out 9.5s to just anyone!  ;D

Offline Knee V

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #93 on: September 16, 2013, 01:04:44 AM »
WPM's situation is not a typical situation. Trust him that it is difficult to do many of the things that we would take for granted as being obvious or easy or straightforward.

Wesley, I would go ahead and just send Fr. Basil an email straight-up asking him if he could arrange for someone to come by and pick you up for Liturgy. Based on what you've said, it doesn't seem like that has happened. It is OK to tell him that you need that.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #94 on: September 16, 2013, 06:49:50 PM »
Jesus said to love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself, he did not mention denominations.

Mark 12
The Greatest Commandment

28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.e 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’f 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’g There is no commandment greater than these.”

32“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2013, 02:26:22 PM »
  If the Lutheran church takes Christ seriously, if they actually live out their faith, keeping in mind at the last day we will be judged by how we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and welcome the stranger... that is the most important thing.

Offline Andrew21091

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2013, 02:41:53 PM »
...that was reiterated by St Philaret of New York...

Was he ever canonised by any of the "official" EO Churches?    

There are hundreds of people throughout history who were never canonized.

His canonization is being considered by the Russian Church Abroad. He has not been officially canonized by the Church, yet. However, I'm sure he will be in a few years.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 02:42:13 PM by Andrew21091 »

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #97 on: September 22, 2013, 05:53:03 PM »
  If the Lutheran church takes Christ seriously, if they actually live out their faith, keeping in mind at the last day we will be judged by how we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and welcome the stranger... that is the most important thing.
The same could be said for any Christian faith.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

Offline WPM

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Re: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?
« Reply #98 on: April 06, 2014, 01:46:23 PM »
Why not give the priest of the nearest parish a call?

I've done that before.  

What did he say?

It was just an exchange of formality over the phone. "How are you" "Glad you called" etc etc.

Did you explain your situation?

Yes, ... My mom attends a Lutheran congregation right around the corner from where we live.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 01:46:54 PM by WPM »