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Author Topic: Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran?  (Read 3987 times) Average Rating: 0
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WPM
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« on: August 21, 2013, 03:04:46 PM »

hello,

I have been on the path and journey to Orthodoxy for about 8 years but unable to get to Orthodox services What should I do? I can attend a Lutheran church around the corner from where I live. Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran? please give your input. Thanks
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 03:05:52 PM by WPM » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 03:32:21 PM »

Which do you think is the apostolic Church?

(p.s. are there no Orthodox churches at all anywhere around you?)
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 03:34:42 PM »


Orthodox, without a doubt.

I'd rather be a single Orthodox, far away from my brethren, but, near to God, than one of a thousand Lutherans.
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 03:34:56 PM »

As this is an Orthodox forum, I suspect if this were a poll, it would skew heavily towards Orthodoxy.

Don't you live in Dallas?  How are there not Orthodox Churches in that metro area?

EDIT: I see your profile says Granbury.  It looks like there are 2 parishes about 25 miles from you.
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 03:48:50 PM »

I have to have a car or truck to be able to make the commute back and forth from Granbury to Ft. Worth.
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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 03:52:58 PM »

I have to have a car or truck to be able to make the commute back and forth from Granbury to Ft. Worth.

Here ya go.

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/used/_/N-ma9Zm5d?prMx=6000&prMn=0&rd=30&zc=76048&PMmt=0-0-0&stkTypId=28881&rpp=50&feedSegId=28705&searchSource=SORT&crSrtFlds=stkTypId-feedSegId-pseudoPrice&pgId=2102&sf1Nm=price&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=miles&sf2Dir=ASC
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 03:58:58 PM »

While I had transportation I moved and got an apartment close to St. Barbara's EO church; I attended services for about 5 months but since then moved back to Granbury.

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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 04:00:51 PM »

Do you have a drivers license? Are you able to purchase a vehicle?
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 04:29:36 PM »

Have you asked the priest if there is someone who lives near you who can give you a ride to church? We've been taking a college student to church every Sunday (and other days, like during Holy Week) with us for several years now.
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 04:33:12 PM »

Why not give the priest of the nearest parish a call?
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 04:34:21 PM »

I am a baptized Lutheran.

My experience with Lutheranism completely turned off me and my brother from Christianity.

It was more of an academic exercise than an experience with God. I honestly don't think I prayed in that Church... but they did give me cookies.

But my experience shouldn't be replicated.

The Solae of Protestantism are contradictory within themselves and the Scriptures. Martin Luther's praxis was calling Mary the Mother of God and venerating her.

Lutherans don't do that today. Lutheranism is everything from homosexual and women priests to hardcore Christianity.

Lutherans also have the same evil doctrines of propitiation, original sin, imputed sin and atonement that Baptists (and Roman Catholics) do.
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 04:39:51 PM »


So, I suggest you get in touch with the closest Orthodox Church and priest.  I'm sure someone at that church will be willing to give you a ride to church every once in a while.
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 04:41:09 PM »

I have to have a car or truck to be able to make the commute back and forth from Granbury to Ft. Worth.

OK, I am taking back a few posts of mine. It is a bad situation.
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 04:49:24 PM »


So, I suggest you get in touch with the closest Orthodox Church and priest.  I'm sure someone at that church will be willing to give you a ride to church every once in a while.

It'd be nice if all parishes had someone like katherineofdixie that was willing to help in cases like this. Or a bus/car ministry specifically for this type of thing. Alas, it is not always to be...
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2013, 05:08:40 PM »

Do you have a drivers license? Are you able to purchase a vehicle?

Yes, I have a driver's license. No, I'm unable to purchase a vehicle.
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2013, 05:10:39 PM »

Is public transportation an option?
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2013, 05:17:55 PM »

On top of that, I'm also dealing with my mom and her opinion of what transportation is for.

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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2013, 05:23:04 PM »

On top of that, I'm also dealing with my mom and her opinion of what transportation is for.

Your profile says that you are thirty.
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2013, 05:33:58 PM »

On top of that, I'm also dealing with my mom and her opinion of what transportation is for.

Your profile says that you are thirty.

So? I still do stuff through the agency of my parents.
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2013, 05:38:56 PM »

On top of that, I'm also dealing with my mom and her opinion of what transportation is for.

Your profile says that you are thirty.
Let's not judge. We don't know everyone's situation. But if there's anyone in the area, or he knows any Orthodox friends who could drive him, that would be helpful.
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2013, 05:41:19 PM »

Have you asked the priest if there is someone who lives near you who can give you a ride to church? We've been taking a college student to church every Sunday (and other days, like during Holy Week) with us for several years now.
Has he considered getting a job?
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2013, 05:54:23 PM »

I was reading another thread and saw this which has to do with this subject inasmuch as the one sided views here.


 "The Orthodox Church" by Bishop Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not; and so we must refrain from passing judgment on non-Orthodox Christians."

Course this goes for other denominations which have the same tunnel vision as here.
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 06:02:38 PM »

I was reading another thread and saw this which has to do with this subject inasmuch as the one sided views here.

My username is a pretty accurate reflection of what you get with me, but you probably have me beat slightly in that regard.
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2013, 06:09:14 PM »

I was reading another thread and saw this which has to do with this subject inasmuch as the one sided views here.


 "The Orthodox Church" by Bishop Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not; and so we must refrain from passing judgment on non-Orthodox Christians."

Course this goes for other denominations which have the same tunnel vision as here.

Yeah, because you understand the Gospel correctly and all those other people are just Christ-less parochial jerks. 
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2013, 06:17:39 PM »

Have you asked the priest if there is someone who lives near you who can give you a ride to church? We've been taking a college student to church every Sunday (and other days, like during Holy Week) with us for several years now.
Has he considered getting a job?

Yes! of course.
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« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2013, 06:30:24 PM »

On top of that, I'm also dealing with my mom and her opinion of what transportation is for.

Does your mother or anyone in your household have a working car?

Do you have an income (from any source)?  Do you have credit?

Can you afford this car?

http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/default.html?AVi=0&id=9766664&D=70&zip=76120&sP=NA-10000&pD=0&pI=0&pT=400&pC=200&pB=0&No=0&Ep=fas:results:state:promo&Rp=R&PP=20&sV=List&CD=14+966+240+190+398+15&Q=e47ab11f-baed-4333-9bbd-90b9443b0f9e

Monthly payment + insurance + maintenance + gas = $500 per month

Even if you buy a car for $1,000, you sill need to pay for tax/title, insurance, gas and maintenance.

Before I had a car, my girlfriend at the time took me to church.  4 months after I dumped her, I bought a car that I had for 4 years before trading it in and buying another car.

If you have a valid driver's license, insurable, adequate income and good enough credit, you can drive your own car to any Orthodox church you want.
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2013, 07:15:00 PM »

On top of that, I'm also dealing with my mom and her opinion of what transportation is for.

Does your mother or anyone in your household have a working car?

Do you have an income (from any source)?  Do you have credit?

Can you afford this car?

http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/default.html?AVi=0&id=9766664&D=70&zip=76120&sP=NA-10000&pD=0&pI=0&pT=400&pC=200&pB=0&No=0&Ep=fas:results:state:promo&Rp=R&PP=20&sV=List&CD=14+966+240+190+398+15&Q=e47ab11f-baed-4333-9bbd-90b9443b0f9e

Monthly payment + insurance + maintenance + gas = $500 per month

Even if you buy a car for $1,000, you sill need to pay for tax/title, insurance, gas and maintenance.

Before I had a car, my girlfriend at the time took me to church.  4 months after I dumped her, I bought a car that I had for 4 years before trading it in and buying another car.

If you have a valid driver's license, insurable, adequate income and good enough credit, you can drive your own car to any Orthodox church you want.

I have a driver's license and insurance for driving a 2004 GMC Jimmy Its my mom's car but I use it all the time

However, taking a used vehicle and using it to drive from Granbury to Ft. Worth is another matter entirely
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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2013, 07:42:38 PM »

I was reading another thread and saw this which has to do with this subject inasmuch as the one sided views here.


 "The Orthodox Church" by Bishop Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not; and so we must refrain from passing judgment on non-Orthodox Christians."

Course this goes for other denominations which have the same tunnel vision as here.

Yeah, because you understand the Gospel correctly and all those other people are just Christ-less parochial jerks.  

Please forgive me, I was just stating what I read that Bishop Ware wrote. These seem to be hateful and hurtful when considering other loved ones who happen to go to a different Church. I find it difficult to find love in these views. I am sorry if I was too harsh, but I have heard the same things about Orthodox from others.

Where does it stop, it seems vengeful, maybe we should try love more. I also find it easier to say than do but we must start somewhere.
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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2013, 08:01:06 PM »

I have a driver's license and insurance for driving a 2004 GMC Jimmy Its my mom's car but I use it all the time

However, taking a used vehicle and using it to drive from Granbury to Ft. Worth is another matter entirely

OK, does the vehicle have a lot of miles which causes its reliability to be questioned?

Road trips require a lot of attention.  Is your mom concerned about your taking the only family vehicle on a long road trip?
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« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2013, 08:06:03 PM »

OK, does the vehicle have a lot of miles which causes its reliability to be questioned?

Yes, the reliability of the vehicle is being questioned.
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« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2013, 08:44:38 PM »

I know it's of practical concern, but it kind of sounds like we're trying to sell him a used car, which incidently, is a lot like trying to sell the Orthodox Faith...

Just kidding. Grin
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« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2013, 09:18:13 PM »

Please forgive me, I was just stating what I read that Bishop Ware wrote. These seem to be hateful and hurtful when considering other loved ones who happen to go to a different Church. I find it difficult to find love in these views. I am sorry if I was too harsh, but I have heard the same things about Orthodox from others.

Where does it stop, it seems vengeful, maybe we should try love more. I also find it easier to say than do but we must start somewhere.

There's nothing to forgive.  I don't disagree with the spirit of what you're trying to express, but I think you make your case too strongly.  You may think it's necessary to counter the equally strong views of the "other side", but it doesn't have the effect you want it to have: they just reject you all the more as a "liberal" or something. 

There is a difference in faith between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians--oftentimes there are many differences.  That doesn't excuse a lack of love on our part for the non-Orthodox: actually, it requires us to love them more, I think.  But love is not incompatible with the truth, nor is truth incompatible with love.  Met. Kallistos may well agree that we shouldn't judge the non-Orthodox, but I don't think he's going to say that they're OK where they are...not without being a hypocrite.   
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« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2013, 09:24:15 PM »

I apologize for being a jerk earlier Sad
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« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2013, 09:58:03 PM »

My input is no matter what you choose to be, convenience should not be the main reason or a reason at all. If you don't see a distinction between Orthodoxy and Lutheranism (no pun intended) then it should make no difference to you. I think I already mentioned but will repeat it nevertheless that is convenience was the main factor I would have not remained Orthodox and would also change my name...but I would then not be honest to myself. As Lisa pointed out, I would not mind being the only Orthodox in the city as long as I'm of belief that Orthodoxy is what my soul needs. Peace be with you dear brother whatever you choose. I just hope that you criterion is not what appears to be...If distance is the only obstacle then do you think that is enough for you to make a change? If you beliebe that Lutheranism is what your soul seeks then I am not going to argue you out of that decision. you would know the best what you will choose and why.

PS. There has to be someons who is willing to give you a ride once in a while, especially if you mention it to priest that otherwise you would not be able to attend Divine Services at the Orthodox Church. If not a single person from the parish is not willing to help you then...maybe I should before I start being judgmental towards parishioners for not wanting to help you...
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« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2013, 10:29:57 PM »

OK, does the vehicle have a lot of miles which causes its reliability to be questioned?

Yes, the reliability of the vehicle is being questioned.

Let's say that you had a very reliable vehicle.

Can you drive 50 miles one way, sit through a 90 minute Orthodox liturgy (and coffee hour) and drive 50 miles back home?

Why allow devoting 8 years of your life to becoming Orthodox to go down the drain because you lack reliable transportation?
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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2013, 10:38:54 PM »

hello,

I have been on the path and journey to Orthodoxy for about 8 years but unable to get to Orthodox services What should I do? I can attend a Lutheran church around the corner from where I live. Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran? please give your input. Thanks

You ask Orthodox, they will say Orthodox. You ask Lutherans, they will say Lutheran (if they're ELCA Lutheran, they will insist on ELCA Lutheran or Methodist or Buddhist or Hindu; it's all the same to them).  Whose opinion is greater?  If you're going to take a poll to determine your spiritual path, then neither option will ultimately satisfy you.  You should want to join yourself to a particular tradition, not to an opinion from people who are biased one way or the other.  You should ask us to pray for you; that is wise. 
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« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2013, 10:45:15 PM »

hello,

I have been on the path and journey to Orthodoxy for about 8 years but unable to get to Orthodox services What should I do? I can attend a Lutheran church around the corner from where I live. Should I be Orthodox or Lutheran? please give your input. Thanks

You ask Orthodox, they will say Orthodox. You ask Lutherans, they will say Lutheran (if they're ELCA Lutheran, they will insist on ELCA Lutheran or Methodist or Buddhist or Hindu; it's all the same to them).  Whose opinion is greater?  If you're going to take a poll to determine your spiritual path, then neither option will ultimately satisfy you.  You should want to join yourself to a particular tradition, not to an opinion from people who are biased one way or the other.  You should ask us to pray for you; that is wise. 

 And if I may add, pray earnestly that God will reveal your path.  I agree with Scamandrius that polling strangers on the interwebs ain't a grand idea.
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2013, 10:50:17 PM »


Orthodox, without a doubt.

I'd rather be a single Orthodox, far away from my brethren, but, near to God, than one of a thousand Lutherans.
This former Lutheran agrees.
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« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2013, 10:56:53 PM »

On top of that, I'm also dealing with my mom and her opinion of what transportation is for.

Your profile says that you are thirty.
The Fifth Commandment doesn't just apply to children.  And that's just the beginning of the parent-child issues that do not go away with adulthood.
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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2013, 11:37:42 PM »

I moved about 1,200 miles away from my home area in northern California (where all the Orthodox churches are Eastern Orthodox/Chalcedonian; beautiful, full of nice people, but not for me)  to go to a Coptic Orthodox Church (yeah, fine, grad school too, but I did choose the places I would apply to based on the presence or absence of a Coptic Orthodox community in the area). I hate the weather here and some of the people at my parish drive me up the wall (in the most well-intentioned way possible, surely), but I can't say it was ultimately anything but completely worth it.

I hope that you will come to the same conclusion in your case, OP. It would be beyond wonderful to have an Orthodox Church on every block, but that is sadly not reality yet. Rest assured that the effort you will expend in following the will of God (that you worship Him in His Church, the Orthodox Church) will be rewarded ten-thousand fold. There is nothing outside of it that compares to life within the Church. 
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« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2013, 05:38:24 AM »

Why not give the priest of the nearest parish a call?

I've done that before.  
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« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2013, 05:44:11 AM »

Why not give the priest of the nearest parish a call?

I've done that before.  

What did he say?
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« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2013, 05:45:22 AM »

Much of what I know (and continue to learn) about Orthodoxy has been influenced by Kallistos Ware.

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« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2013, 05:47:24 AM »

Why not give the priest of the nearest parish a call?

I've done that before.  

What did he say?

It was just an exchange of formality over the phone. "How are you" "Glad you called" etc etc.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 05:47:45 AM by WPM » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2013, 05:50:05 AM »

Why not give the priest of the nearest parish a call?

I've done that before.  

What did he say?

It was just an exchange of formality over the phone. "How are you" "Glad you called" etc etc.

Did you explain your situation?
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"Claret is the liquor for boys; port for men; but he who aspires to be a hero must drink brandy."
-Dr. Samuel Johnson
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