Author Topic: Did our view on contraception change?  (Read 793 times)

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Offline serbknight

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Did our view on contraception change?
« on: August 21, 2013, 02:40:56 PM »
I hear catholics saying that before 1930,all Christian groups were against contraception. Of course, we are still very much against the Pill since it is an abortifacient( it also screws with women's heath).But with condoms and coitus interruptus, the line seems to have been blurred in the last 50 years. Personally,i support NFP because it is healthy and very effective.But that is for a normal couple.If they are in poverty or in prison,then the coitus interruptus is justified( i dont know where they would get condoms).If they have stds,then condoms are justified.

This is in line with(if not the view of) Holy Orthodoxy today.But back in the 1920s, the greek church strictly forbid birth control and so did Metropolitan Ware's early editions of his book. Does not this change disturb anyone else?I know about the whole "strictness and economy" but 100 years ago did not think economy was valid for this issue. Did our view actually change?

Online Asteriktos

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 02:44:07 PM »
NFP is birth control.
Pulling out is birth control.
Condoms are birth control.

I don't care if you are in favor or against, but be consistent.
"I, Lucian, wrote this, I who am skilled in what is old and foolish; For what men think wise is foolish. So then nothing that the mind of man can conceive is certain; What you admire, seems ridiculous to others." - St. Lucian of Antioch

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 02:48:29 PM »
NFP is birth control.
Pulling out is birth control.
Condoms are birth control.

I don't care if you are in favor or against, but be consistent.
Abstinence is birth control.  ;)
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline serbknight

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 02:55:17 PM »
Uhhh yeah i know it is all birth control...
The pill is banned because it causes abortion and yet it is birth control.Using NPF under normal circumstances was my opinion but is what I see often among orthodox priests today. I was not being dogmatic. I am just saying that our Church used to oppose artificial birth control and now it accepts it for non-egotisitcal reasons. I am trying to find a defense for the catholic accusation. They use it to lump us in with the liberal protestants.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 02:58:39 PM »
Nope. We got secularized and bybass troubling aspects with economy and/or just ignore them.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Online Asteriktos

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 02:59:43 PM »
NFP is birth control.
Pulling out is birth control.
Condoms are birth control.

I don't care if you are in favor or against, but be consistent.
Abstinence is birth control.  ;)

And yet the same Fathers who said that birth control was evil, even in cases like economic hardship, also considered celibacy (often even within marriage) to be a tremendous virtue and grace.  ???  >:(
"I, Lucian, wrote this, I who am skilled in what is old and foolish; For what men think wise is foolish. So then nothing that the mind of man can conceive is certain; What you admire, seems ridiculous to others." - St. Lucian of Antioch

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 03:29:26 PM »
Uhhh yeah i know it is all birth control...
The pill is banned because it causes abortion and yet it is birth control.Using NPF under normal circumstances was my opinion but is what I see often among orthodox priests today. I was not being dogmatic. I am just saying that our Church used to oppose artificial birth control and now it accepts it for non-egotisitcal reasons. I am trying to find a defense for the catholic accusation. They use it to lump us in with the liberal protestants.
Solution for this problem.

1. Go to youtube.
2. Play Dr. Seuss Episcopal mass
3. Play Carnival mass
4. "you were saying...?"
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline Papist

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 03:36:00 PM »
Uhhh yeah i know it is all birth control...
The pill is banned because it causes abortion and yet it is birth control.Using NPF under normal circumstances was my opinion but is what I see often among orthodox priests today. I was not being dogmatic. I am just saying that our Church used to oppose artificial birth control and now it accepts it for non-egotisitcal reasons. I am trying to find a defense for the catholic accusation. They use it to lump us in with the liberal protestants.
I don't think you are liberal protestants, and I don't think that it is an official teaching of your church that artificial birth control is acceptable.
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline serbknight

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 03:41:44 PM »
Uhhh yeah i know it is all birth control...
The pill is banned because it causes abortion and yet it is birth control.Using NPF under normal circumstances was my opinion but is what I see often among orthodox priests today. I was not being dogmatic. I am just saying that our Church used to oppose artificial birth control and now it accepts it for non-egotisitcal reasons. I am trying to find a defense for the catholic accusation. They use it to lump us in with the liberal protestants.
Solution for this problem.

1. Go to youtube.
2. Play Dr. Seuss Episcopal mass
3. Play Carnival mass
4. "you were saying...?"

LOL. But as far as the traditionalist catholics are concerned,both us and the liturgical abusers are heretics.

Offline Papist

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 03:43:53 PM »
Uhhh yeah i know it is all birth control...
The pill is banned because it causes abortion and yet it is birth control.Using NPF under normal circumstances was my opinion but is what I see often among orthodox priests today. I was not being dogmatic. I am just saying that our Church used to oppose artificial birth control and now it accepts it for non-egotisitcal reasons. I am trying to find a defense for the catholic accusation. They use it to lump us in with the liberal protestants.
Solution for this problem.

1. Go to youtube.
2. Play Dr. Seuss Episcopal mass
3. Play Carnival mass
4. "you were saying...?"

LOL. But as far as the traditionalist catholics are concerned,both us and the liturgical abusers are heretics.
We're an equal opportunity bunch.  ;D
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline serbknight

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 03:46:08 PM »
Uhhh yeah i know it is all birth control...
The pill is banned because it causes abortion and yet it is birth control.Using NPF under normal circumstances was my opinion but is what I see often among orthodox priests today. I was not being dogmatic. I am just saying that our Church used to oppose artificial birth control and now it accepts it for non-egotisitcal reasons. I am trying to find a defense for the catholic accusation. They use it to lump us in with the liberal protestants.
I don't think you are liberal protestants, and I don't think that it is an official teaching of your church that artificial birth control is acceptable.

Thanks.Yeah, that is true. It is not an official position.But it is still the most popular position of Orthodox clergy that artificial contraception can be used in desperate situations for non-selfish reasons.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 03:48:17 PM »
Uhhh yeah i know it is all birth control...
The pill is banned because it causes abortion and yet it is birth control.Using NPF under normal circumstances was my opinion but is what I see often among orthodox priests today. I was not being dogmatic. I am just saying that our Church used to oppose artificial birth control and now it accepts it for non-egotisitcal reasons. I am trying to find a defense for the catholic accusation. They use it to lump us in with the liberal protestants.
Solution for this problem.

1. Go to youtube.
2. Play Dr. Seuss Episcopal mass
3. Play Carnival mass
4. "you were saying...?"

LOL. But as far as the traditionalist catholics are concerned,both us and the liturgical abusers are heretics.
I may not agree with traditionalist RCs, but I do respect them.  If it weren't for them, the Latin Church would be a bigger version of Episcopalianism.
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Did our view on contraception change?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 08:53:37 PM »
I think the bigger criticism is that we're inconsistent in our teaching, with some bishops permitting under certain circumstances, others permitting under even stricter circumstances, and perhaps some not permitting at all. Is this because of genuine ekonomia, secular pressure, or was there never a definitive teaching to begin with? Rome seems convinced that there was, and often holds that over everyone else's heads. I suppose I can respect their consistency, but from what I understand, its not getting through. Do not a majority of Roman Catholics, even though they might only be "nominal," still use some form of contraception?