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Author Topic: The Masonic and Military Order of the Red Cross of Constantine  (Read 1750 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: August 20, 2013, 04:12:44 PM »

What is the story about the Order of the Red Cross of Constantine?

I ask because the name reminds me of Orthodoxy.

It is an order of the Royal Arch of York Rite Freemasonry. The Masonic Dictionary says:
Quote
This Order of Masonic Knighthood is based upon Trinitarian Christianity and was traditionally founded by Constantine the Great after the Battle of Saxa Ruba in 312 AD. [But] no direct connection can be made with that legendary Order
http://www.masonicdictionary.com/conclave.html

A belief in the "Christian Trinity in Unity" is required to join, but other Masonic orders allow anyone who believes in a god to join. The ritual to join is online, and it focuses on the cross Constantine envisioned (http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/ovorcc_r1.html). For what it's worth, it doesn't say what the Trinity is.

Wikipedia shows these medals for its 3 ranks:

I read that Templars also used a red cross, and their slogan was "In hoc signo vinces (in this sign you will conquer)", which is what the letters on the medal stand for. Note that there is also a common Western Christian motto I.H.S., which is the Jesuits' abbreviation. Perhaps this may be the motive for using the initials I.H.S.V.

J.S. Ward's Handbook says it contains a reference to the Roman College of Architects, which he says the Comacine Masons descend from. But do the builders of European castles really go all the way back to Rome? He adds: "This is the only degree in English Freemasonry, of which i am aware, which does endeavour to give the meaning of the Craft and Arch."
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/masonry/The_Higher_Degrees_Handbook.pdf

A Masonic website describes 15th cent. Goldschmidt Tarot cards, commenting that the Sun card "has the emblem of the MWGM (Most Worshipful Grandmaster) over a cross of Constantine with three symbolic green hills with M A and C upon them, all on a chequered pavement."

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/Tarot_Cards_Masonic.htm

One publication says:
Quote
The Imperial Ecclesiastical and Military Order of the Knights of the Red Cross of Rome and Constantine, now the Masonic and Military Order of the Red Cross of Constantine, was 'revived' by Little in 1865 when he was only twenty-six years old. The Order achieved an immediate popularity. Between May 1865 and September 1871 sixty-two Conclaves were chartered. The anonymous author of a pamphlet recently published under the authority of the Order's Grand Imperial Conclave in London refuted Little's proposition that he had resuscitated an Order with a lengthy previous history.

In 1866, the year after he 'revived' the Knights of the Red Cross of Rome and Constantine, Little founded the Rosicrucian [Rose Cross] Society of England
http://www.beyondweird.com/occult/fringe.html
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 04:14:59 PM »

I always laugh at all those orders and knight ranks.
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 04:19:05 PM »

I always laugh at all those orders and knight ranks.
I don't see what's so funny, Michał .  Angry

This order of knights goes all the way back to 1865.
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 04:40:08 PM »

Well the medals from Wikipedia are a ripoff of the badge of the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St George, which is an Order of the House of Bourbon and dedicated to the supportof the Catholic Church.
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 04:52:58 PM »

Well the medals from Wikipedia are a ripoff of the badge of the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St George, which is an Order of the House of Bourbon and dedicated to the supportof the Catholic Church.
It's very hard to argue with you. How did you even know that?

Quote
The Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George is a Roman Catholic order of chivalry. It was fictively established by Constantine the Great, though, in reality, it was founded some time between 1520 and 1545 by two brothers belonging to the [Greek] Angeli Comneni family. Members of the Angeli Comneni family remained grand masters throughout the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Military_Constantinian_Order_of_Saint_George


Medal of the Constantinian Order of Saint George
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 04:55:59 PM »



So... A Masonic order revived in 1865 based on a still-existing Roman Catholic order created in the 16th century based on St. Constantine?

If you think about the drawing above, is it even realistic? If you were standing to the right of the stage (like the viewer of the painting), would you see what is depicted?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 05:14:04 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 05:01:52 PM »

"Kind of hard to argue with you. How did you even know that?" rakovsky

I am a heraldry/knighthood nerd.  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 05:02:50 PM by Deacon Lance » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 05:31:34 PM »

I always laugh at all those orders and knight ranks.
I don't see what's so funny, Michał .  Angry

It's cretinism.

Quote
This order of knights goes all the way back to 1865.

My grandparents' house is older.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 05:33:19 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 06:28:41 PM »

I always laugh at all those orders and knight ranks.
I don't see what's so funny, Michał .  Angry

It's cretinism.

Quote
Cretinism is a condition of severely stunted physical and mental growth due to untreated congenital deficiency of thyroid hormones (congenital hypothyroidism) usually due to maternal hypothyroidism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretinism

Quote
Quote
This order of knights goes all the way back to 1865.

My grandparents' house is older.
You could put in a petition to get it marked as a world landmark, going back to the imperial and noble era of high knighthood. Obviously, there is nothing funny about Roman Catholic Constantinian high ecclesiastical imperial knight nobility allied orders, especially when they span MULTIPLE centuries. The word does not even fit on the screen it is so great and lengthy.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 06:39:12 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 06:39:23 PM »

Is there a reason anyone should care about this thread?
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 06:40:06 PM »

Is there a reason anyone should care about this thread?
Yes. To see what is on the other side of the mirror.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 06:41:41 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 06:43:08 PM »

Is there a reason anyone should care about this thread?
Yes. To see what is on the other side of the mirror.

Officially TOTALLY lost...
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 06:50:00 PM »

Officially TOTALLY lost...
Hint: See Reply #5
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 04:23:19 AM »

There are dosens of such orders, usually created by some lunatics who believe they are kings or princes or dukes. And they give them to other lunatics who pretend to believe them. And that's really old what can be said about it.
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2013, 09:12:16 AM »

Is there a reason anyone should care about this thread?
Did you get my point? It's because something is being presented to you in society, and it's a mirror of what the actual thing is. In this case, the mirror image it turns out was founded by Greeks in the 16th century.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 09:12:59 AM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2013, 09:27:41 AM »

I always laugh at all those orders and knight ranks.
I don't see what's so funny, Michał .  Angry

This order of knights goes all the way back to 1865.

Ah, 1865, that unparalleled epoch of chivalry and romance.
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2013, 03:06:29 PM »

I always laugh at all those orders and knight ranks.
I don't see what's so funny, Michał .  Angry

This order of knights goes all the way back to 1865.

Ah, 1865, that unparalleled epoch of chivalry and romance.

And knights, and dragons...
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2013, 05:02:24 PM »

I always laugh at all those orders and knight ranks.
I don't see what's so funny, Michał .  Angry

This order of knights goes all the way back to 1865.

Ah, 1865, that unparalleled epoch of chivalry and romance.

And knights, and dragons...

The emblem of our order is the Gatling Gun of Truth

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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2013, 05:24:48 PM »

This one's more nifty:

The Sovereign Christian Orthodox United Order of the Red Cross of Constantine and the Orders of the Holy Sepulcher and St. John the Evangelist
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2013, 05:37:49 PM »

Too. Many. Words.
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2013, 05:45:07 PM »

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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2013, 05:48:46 PM »

All those vagante bishops tend to have dozens of those badges like they were Pokemon trainers.
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 06:44:10 PM »


From the website:
  • We are officially recognized by The Most Reverend Metropolitan +Daniel of Mexico and All Latin America, Archbishop +Daniel de Jesús Ruiz Flores, Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church – Canonical.

    We are officially recognized by the ArchBishop of Saranda, the Holy Orthodox Church of Epirus.
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2013, 07:28:17 PM »

All those vagante bishops tend to have dozens of those badges like they were Pokemon trainers.
Non-vagante bisops have them too.
http://www.czipm.org/spiritual_patron.html
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Raphael_of_Brooklyn
And some give them out:
http://the.heraldry.ru/text/rpcorders.html
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2013, 11:09:20 PM »


Agreed, but they make up for it by spelling it out in CAPS LOCK.

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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2013, 04:46:37 AM »


From the website:
  • We are officially recognized by The Most Reverend Metropolitan +Daniel of Mexico and All Latin America, Archbishop +Daniel de Jesús Ruiz Flores, Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church – Canonical.

    We are officially recognized by the ArchBishop of Saranda, the Holy Orthodox Church of Epirus.

That's what I'm saying. Vagantes love bling.
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« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2013, 04:57:58 AM »

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Holy Orthodox Church of Epirus.

Some seriously weird ecclesiology here. Dioceses are named after provinces, not local churches.
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« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2013, 10:06:58 AM »

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Holy Orthodox Church of Epirus.

Some seriously weird ecclesiology here. Dioceses are named after provinces, not local churches.

Just stop, LBK...you're ruining the fun with your facts!
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« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2013, 10:17:13 AM »

How about the "exciting new line of Clothing & Gift Items" they sell? Who wouldn't want their exclusive PDA cover or non v-neck t-shirt? http://www.cafepress.com/stconstantine
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« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2013, 10:38:15 AM »

Are you trying to tell me this is a cuckoo clock?
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« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2013, 10:43:36 AM »

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Holy Orthodox Church of Epirus.

Some seriously weird ecclesiology here. Dioceses are named after provinces, not local churches.

Just stop, LBK...you're ruining the fun with your facts!

I'm sorry, dear Mor ....  Kiss
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« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2014, 06:37:55 PM »

Quote
       ”In 1870 the Order had been but recently revived and some question regarding its true history and Grand Mastership were discussed in a book published that year by a Macedonian prince, a naturalized British subject living in London, Demetrius Rhodocanakis. This work, entitled the Imperial Constantinian Order of Saint George, a Review of Modern Impostures and a Sketch of Its True History, denies any pretension in the Masonic Red Cross Order to be derived from the Imperial Constantinian Order of Saint George and also denies the sale of the Grand Mastership to the Duke of Parma, and the author claims to be himself the Grand Master because of his descent from the ancient Dynasty of Byzantium. The claims thus made had the effect of evoking an announcement by the officers of the Grand Imperial Council of England disclaiming any interference in the organization of Prince Rhodocanakis and, on May 29, 1871, issued the following proclamation:

        To all members of the Masonic Order, known as the Order of the Red Cross of Constantine, and to all others whom it may concern.

        Whereas, The Masonic Order, now known as the Order of the Red Cross of Constantine, hereafter concisely called the Red Cross Order, has been recently revived in England, and occupies a prominent position as a chivalric branch of great fraternity of Freemasons; and,

        Whereas, Discussions have arisen whether the Red Cross Order has or has not any alliance with the ancient Chivalric Order known as the Constantine Order of Saint George, and as it is expedient that such discussions shall be terminated by a declaration of the claims of the Red Cross Order:

(The Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Part 2 by Albert G. Mackey, H. L. Haywood pp. 841-2)
http://www.fatimamovement.com/i-RecognizeFreemasonryInYourChurch-StJohnCantiusChicago.php
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« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2014, 07:30:25 PM »

My old man was in the Red Cross. When we were kids, we'd go out to a lakeside resort once a year for their conclave. The guys'd all play ritual in one of the conference rooms. The kids would play ping pong and ride horses and plug quarters into the pinball machine.

I never made it into the Red Cross -- it's an invitational body for good, long-time Yorkies. But the Red Cross degree in the Commandery -- that was one of my favorites. "Remember thy vow, which thou hast vowed, when thou wouldst come into thy kingdom. ... That is what I desire of the, oh King, make good the vow, the performance whereof with thine own mouth thou has vowed to the King of Heaven."  That just comes trippingly off the tongue, doesn't it?



Quote
       ”In 1870 the Order had been but recently revived and some question regarding its true history and Grand Mastership were discussed in a book published that year by a Macedonian prince, a naturalized British subject living in London, Demetrius Rhodocanakis. This work, entitled the Imperial Constantinian Order of Saint George, a Review of Modern Impostures and a Sketch of Its True History, denies any pretension in the Masonic Red Cross Order to be derived from the Imperial Constantinian Order of Saint George and also denies the sale of the Grand Mastership to the Duke of Parma, and the author claims to be himself the Grand Master because of his descent from the ancient Dynasty of Byzantium. The claims thus made had the effect of evoking an announcement by the officers of the Grand Imperial Council of England disclaiming any interference in the organization of Prince Rhodocanakis and, on May 29, 1871, issued the following proclamation:

        To all members of the Masonic Order, known as the Order of the Red Cross of Constantine, and to all others whom it may concern.

        Whereas, The Masonic Order, now known as the Order of the Red Cross of Constantine, hereafter concisely called the Red Cross Order, has been recently revived in England, and occupies a prominent position as a chivalric branch of great fraternity of Freemasons; and,

        Whereas, Discussions have arisen whether the Red Cross Order has or has not any alliance with the ancient Chivalric Order known as the Constantine Order of Saint George, and as it is expedient that such discussions shall be terminated by a declaration of the claims of the Red Cross Order:

(The Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Part 2 by Albert G. Mackey, H. L. Haywood pp. 841-2)
http://www.fatimamovement.com/i-RecognizeFreemasonryInYourChurch-StJohnCantiusChicago.php

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« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2014, 07:48:36 PM »

But the Red Cross degree in the Commandery -- that was one of my favorites. "Remember thy vow, which thou hast vowed, when thou wouldst come into thy kingdom. ... That is what I desire of the, oh King, make good the vow, the performance whereof with thine own mouth thou has vowed to the King of Heaven." 

That just comes trippingly off the tongue, doesn't it?
What does this mean?
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« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2014, 07:59:39 PM »

Typo:  Desire of thee

But the Red Cross degree in the Commandery -- that was one of my favorites. "Remember thy vow, which thou hast vowed, when thou wouldst come into thy kingdom. ... That is what I desire of the, oh King, make good the vow, the performance whereof with thine own mouth thou has vowed to the King of Heaven." 

That just comes trippingly off the tongue, doesn't it?
What does this mean?
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