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Author Topic: Why do we explore space?  (Read 1699 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: August 18, 2013, 12:58:58 AM »

I like dinosaurs.maybe God wanted us to have something to play with;) Also why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 02:06:50 AM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a fantastic question!
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 02:19:36 AM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a question!

Well this is the crazy talk thread.
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2013, 02:22:01 AM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a question!

Well this is the crazy talk thread.
It is indeed! laugh
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2013, 06:43:29 PM »

Wait...wha?  What happened.  The fabric of the time and space continuum has been torn. Shocked
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2013, 06:44:59 PM »

One of the mods must have divided by zero while logging in...
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2013, 06:53:51 PM »

Quote
Msgr. B. -- “Our purpose was to glorify the Lord.”

T.M. -- “As a good Catholic, I agree.  But how was Adam to glorify?  By singing praises?  The Heavenly hosts were already doing that, and even a parrot can make unctuous noises.  No, the evidence is right there in Genesis. Adam was told to do something very specific, something before the fall, before Eve, before even being told not to eat the fruit!”

Msgr. B. -- “Let me scan and refresh my ... ah.  I think I see what you refer to. The paragraph in which the Lord has Adam name all the beasts. Is that it? But that's a minor thing. Nobody considers it important.”

 T.M. -- “Not important?  The very first request by the Creator of His creation?  The only request that has nothing to do with the repair work of mortality, or rescue from sin? Would such a thing have been mentioned so prominently if the Lord were merely idly curious?”

Msgr. B. -- “Please, I see others queued for questions. Your point is?”

T.M. -- “Only this -- our original purpose clearly was to glorify God by going forth, comprehending, and naming the Creator's works.  Therefore, aren't zoologists crawling through the jungle, struggling to name endangered species before they go extinct, doing holy labor?

    “Or take even those camera-bearing probes we have sent to other planets.... What is the first thing we do when awe-inspiring vistas of some faraway moon are transmitted back by our little robot envoys?  Why, we reverently  name the craters, valleys, and other strange beasts discovered out there."

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2010/12/is-theology-compatible-with-science.html
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2013, 07:30:47 PM »

We explore space to search for life and just to see what is out there.  Exploration has helped with the invention of new technologies, which help all no matter what their economic level is.  Exploration of space has also helped us in studying weather and predicting tornadoes, hurricanes, and other sorts of weather.  Someday we may manufacture some items in space, such as ball bearings.  When we get advanced enough, we may be able to bring back needed minerals from other worlds.  That is just some of the befits of space exploration.  We do help the poor, but we also budget for the exploration of space and other things.  We are curious creatures.  We like to see what the LORD created under the oceans and what the LORD created in outer space.
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2013, 09:02:04 PM »

To boldly go where no man, um, no one, er, no gender neutral, uh, no person, *sigh*, no humanoid, wait, not everyone out there could be human like, sooo, I GOT IT!!!!

To boldly go where no life force, currently know to the human race, from the Planet Earth had gone before.

Aaaaa-AAAAAH- ah-ah-ah-ah-aaaaaaaah...
Wooo-OOoOOOO-oooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooooooooo...
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2013, 09:03:21 PM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a fantastic question!
Still, it IS a good question.
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2013, 09:44:46 PM »

Bob Marley: So Much Trouble In The World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J50IlUVAB0&feature=player_embedded

You see men sailing on their ego trip,
 Blast off on their spaceship,
 Million miles from reality:
 No care for you, no care for me.

Sister Carol: "Lost In Space"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu8Cbnpn4EA

Lost in space, that's why dem lost in space
Dem no have respect for the human race
Burn in space, dem burn in space
Cause dem no have respect for the human race
Dem build space shuttle called the "Challenger"
Dem go up in space dem gonna challenge JAH
Dem fasten seat belt but dem don't say no prayer...

Selam
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2013, 09:47:57 PM »

I like dinosaurs.maybe God wanted us to have something to play with;) Also why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?

Do you know how much money is actually spent on Space work?   Do you mean money from all the countries involved or just one group such as NASA? 

I do not mean any offense, but this is a false dichotomy; it is not an all or nothing binary situation.  There are people who are taking care of lives here on Earth. There are myriads of men and women who are working to improve health (vaccine research, providing ways of getting fresh water, providing medical care and surgery for some who otherwise would not get it), provide education, bring relief to areas hit with disasters and more.
There is always more to do, it is true.  But things are being done. 
Mercy Ships is one such group http://www.mercyships.org/home/
Doctors without Borders is another http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org

One that I found out about just this past week is Watsi.https://watsi.org/faq
"a global crowdfunding platform for healthcare that enables anyone to donate as little as $5 to directly fund life-changing medical care for people in need

And there are many others who do all sorts of different work.  There is room for both Space and Caring.

With respect

Ebor
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2013, 10:45:28 PM »

I like space. And nebulas Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 11:05:45 PM »

So we can find more resources to sustain ourselves since those dang Mormons, Indians, and Chinese can't stop birthing babies.
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2013, 11:05:45 PM »

Because the corporations need new markets to exploreexploit.
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Proof that Russia won the Space Race.


« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2013, 11:46:28 PM »

Which word sounds cooler, Astronauts or Cosmonauts?

More proof that Russia won the Space Race.

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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2013, 12:11:31 AM »

Which word sounds cooler, Astronauts or Cosmonauts?

More proof that Russia won the Space Race.

I disagree. Cosmonaut sounds like a mixed alcoholic drink. Astronaut brings to mind images of astrophysics and astrolabes and so forth. Stellar!
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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2013, 12:17:17 AM »

Precisely!  "It means Star Voyager"

 Smiley  Ad Astra...
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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2013, 12:44:05 AM »

So we can find more resources to sustain ourselves since those dang Mormons, Indians, and Chinese can't stop birthing babies.

Better that they reproduce and some others go extinct. 
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2013, 01:37:07 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2013, 01:50:10 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2013, 03:37:54 AM »

A better question is why don't we explore space?
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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2013, 03:39:55 AM »

A better question is why don't we explore space?

Because it's large, dark, and scary.

Just imagine floating about, several light years from the nearest celestial body, with nothing around you!

Gives me the heebie-jeebies.
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2013, 03:47:17 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.

What is positive advancement ? What is the goal ?
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2013, 03:58:00 AM »

Because it's THERE.
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2013, 04:17:57 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.

What is positive advancement ? What is the goal ?

Depends on who you are, I suppose. My goals would be different than those of another.
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2013, 04:26:44 AM »


Depends on who you are, I suppose. My goals would be different than those of another.

But if this is true ( and i accept it is true ), then there are no such things as the best interest of everyone and positive advancement. That is a religious point of view.
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2013, 04:28:08 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.

I'm not against financing the exploration of the unknown, just not at the expense of financing the problems that are known. Science too often puts the cart ahead of the horse.


Selam
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2013, 04:55:06 AM »

I`ve been there many times and there is nothing to see.  Smiley

I always had a problem with the materialistic explanation of our universe. "Imagine a balloon expanding".When i ask what is outside of the balloon i am told that there is nothing outside, not even empty space. This is stupid, in order for something to expand, you need an empty space bigger than that object. This is what everyone knows based on our experience.

There is a single place where we can see universes created from absolutely nothing and "balloons" that are able to expand into nothing, not even empty space. And that is computer simulations / computer games. Unfortunately when you think about simulations you will reach the material toll house (our universe is material, the game is not ) . But if you imagine an intelligent observer inside the game then that universe is as real for him as this one is for you.

There is a big problem though. These universes are created and many scientists don`t like the idea of a Creator. Or when they do like the idea they come up with a new age crap theory. Like the one from this movie (starting at 29`:30"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgUv3yiN9Q
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2013, 06:15:18 AM »

So we can find more resources to sustain ourselves since those dang Mormons, Indians, and Chinese can't stop birthing babies.
No Hispanics in here?

James where is your bias?!
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2013, 06:15:18 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.
Good old Neil's agenda for NASA to use more of our tax dollars for the program. He just wants his own fantasies assuaged.
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2013, 10:22:34 AM »

I`ve been there many times and there is nothing to see.  Smiley

I always had a problem with the materialistic explanation of our universe. "Imagine a balloon expanding".When i ask what is outside of the balloon i am told that there is nothing outside, not even empty space. This is stupid, in order for something to expand, you need an empty space bigger than that object. This is what everyone knows based on our experience.

There is a single place where we can see universes created from absolutely nothing and "balloons" that are able to expand into nothing, not even empty space. And that is computer simulations / computer games. Unfortunately when you think about simulations you will reach the material toll house (our universe is material, the game is not ) . But if you imagine an intelligent observer inside the game then that universe is as real for him as this one is for you.

There is a big problem though. These universes are created and many scientists don`t like the idea of a Creator. Or when they do like the idea they come up with a new age crap theory. Like the one from this movie (starting at 29`:30"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgUv3yiN9Q

Occasionally I get the chance to look up at the sky with an astronomy club.  I do not own a telescope, but they are nice and let people without a scope look through theirs.  When I look at planets, stars, and novas, I think about what a smart and mighty creator we have to create things like that -- whether via the big bang or 7 literal days I do not know, but however it was done, I know who created them.
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2013, 11:42:15 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.
Good old Neil's agenda for NASA to use more of our tax dollars for the program. He just wants his own fantasies assuaged.

Which fantasies? He has a few. One fantasy is that parents will stop stifling the creativity of their children. That's not going to happen. Another is that the government cut the congressional toilet seat budget by .3% and use that money to double the NASA budget, but that's not gonna happen either. Which fantasy are you thinking of? Or, I guess, fantasies (plural)? Also, I hate the word assuaged. I can't pronounce it properly.

As for earlier posts, which I didn't get to... progress towards... well if you're a businessman then business, if an educator then education, etc. I don't have specifics at my fingertips, like what microchip or alternative fuel source was designed/modified/invented/whatever in this or that case.
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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »

I don't know.

Seems like a colossal waste of $$ to me.  Oh well....

(We DID get teflon out of the deal though.  What would we do without it?? Roll Eyes)
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« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2013, 11:57:14 AM »

Quote
(We DID get teflon out of the deal though.  What would we do without it?? Roll Eyes)
That is a sticky question. Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2013, 12:30:18 PM »

To boldly go where no man, um, no one, er, no gender neutral, uh, no person, *sigh*, no humanoid, wait, not everyone out there could be human like, sooo, I GOT IT!!!!

To boldly go where no life force, currently know to the human race, from the Planet Earth had gone before.

Aaaaa-AAAAAH- ah-ah-ah-ah-aaaaaaaah...
Wooo-OOoOOOO-oooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooooooooo...

Not that split infinitive again?  laugh

When mountaineers are asked why they do it, the reply often as not is given, "Because it is there".

Curiosity, national pride and the fear others may gain an advantage if our country isn't in the game, commercial opportunists, etc., etc.
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« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2013, 01:06:36 PM »

Occasionally I get the chance to look up at the sky with an astronomy club.  I do not own a telescope, but they are nice and let people without a scope look through theirs.  When I look at planets, stars, and novas, I think about what a smart and mighty creator we have to create things like that -- whether via the big bang or 7 literal days I do not know, but however it was done, I know who created them.

I think we both know Who created them. The problem is what we understand from studying the universe. I mean, if you reach the conclusion that our universe is expanding and there is nothing outside ( not even empty space ), that should be a hint for a transcendent reality where our universe exists as information and where the space outside the universe also exists as potential.
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« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2013, 01:36:53 PM »

Without studying space, we wouldn't have satellites.  Without those, we wouldn't have much of the communications and connectivity we have today.  I suppose that is a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.
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« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2013, 01:46:42 PM »

Because we generally want to see if there is life on other planets and in a distant galaxy
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« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2013, 02:09:56 PM »

Occasionally I get the chance to look up at the sky with an astronomy club.  I do not own a telescope, but they are nice and let people without a scope look through theirs.  When I look at planets, stars, and novas, I think about what a smart and mighty creator we have to create things like that -- whether via the big bang or 7 literal days I do not know, but however it was done, I know who created them.

I think we both know Who created them. The problem is what we understand from studying the universe. I mean, if you reach the conclusion that our universe is expanding and there is nothing outside ( not even empty space ), that should be a hint for a transcendent reality where our universe exists as information and where the space outside the universe also exists as potential.

This goes well beyond Teflon and Tang, without which the universe would be only all potential.  Wut?
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« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2013, 02:28:27 PM »



This goes well beyond Teflon and Tang, without which the universe would be only all potential.  Wut?

There is no doubt that there is an advancement in technology. But i don`t know if there is an advancement in truth. Today 96% of our universe is made from invisible magical force and mass and physicists are arguing if there are 10 or 11 dimensions. and how the multiverse looks like.
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« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2013, 02:32:49 PM »



This goes well beyond Teflon and Tang, without which the universe would be only all potential.  Wut?

There is no doubt that there is an advancement in technology. But i don`t know if there is an advancement in truth. Today 96% of our universe is made from invisible magical force and mass and physicists are arguing if there are 10 or 11 dimensions. and how the multiverse looks like.


I have enough trouble with 3 (or is it 4?) and now they're arguing about 10 or 11?  Oy vey ist mir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2013, 02:40:20 PM »

We move.

That's what we do.

Although all the talk about superpopulation and end of resources and water is still just catastrophism, the only long way for humanity lies in space (maybe the oceans for some time more if anyone dares go there).

Maybe when we were told to spread and preach to the whole cosmos, God had a vision a bit clearer about what that meant than those who thought it was the piece of land between the oceans they knew. Our ancestors found out there were other continents, we today know there are other planets, stars and moons. We must go there.
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« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2013, 02:42:26 PM »

100,000 applicants for the Mars One project that intends to colonize Mars
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/09/tech/innovation/mars-one-applications
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« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2013, 02:43:06 PM »

That's why, because we don't care about our own lives. We are ill, we only want things and experiences that ruin us. Anyway, I love space!
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« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2013, 02:43:55 PM »

We move.

That's what we do.

Although all the talk about superpopulation and end of resources and water is still just catastrophism, the only long way for humanity lies in space (maybe the oceans for some time more if anyone dares go there).

Maybe when we were told to spread and preach to the whole cosmos, God had a vision a bit clearer about what that meant than those who thought it was the piece of land between the oceans they knew. Our ancestors found out there were other continents, we today know there are other planets, stars and moons. We must go there.

You go.  I'll stay right here, thank you very much  Grin.
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« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2013, 02:44:54 PM »

That's why, because we don't care about our own lives. We are ill, we only want things and experiences that ruin us. Anyway, I love space!


I love space, too.  From right here under my rock.
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« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2013, 02:53:57 PM »

I bought a piece of land on that diamond planet they discovered.  Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2013, 03:15:24 PM »

I bought a piece of land on that diamond planet they discovered.  Smiley

I've got some beautiful beachfront property in northwestern Mali I'd be happy to sell you! Grin
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« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2013, 03:22:29 PM »

The more I think about all of this, the more uncertain I am! For example:

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" - Matt. 25:30

Here "darkness" can also be rendered "space," and we know that NASA is always whining (whining = complaining = crying = "weeping") about their budget. Is this therefore perhaps a prophecy?  Huh

Is there also not a prayer in the Orthodox tradition which says:

"Again we pray that this sacred monastery (or this city). and every monastery, city, town, and every country may be preserved from famine, pestilence, earthquake, flood, fire, the sword, the invasion of aliens, and civil war; that our good and man-loving God may be gracious and favorable, that He may turn away all the wrath stirred up against us, and deliver us from His righteousness which hangeth over us, and have mercy on us."

 Sad
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« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2013, 03:33:32 PM »

The more I think about all of this, the more uncertain I am! For example:

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" - Matt. 25:30

Here "darkness" can also be rendered "space," and we know that NASA is always whining (whining = complaining = crying = "weeping") about their budget. Is this therefore perhaps a prophecy?  Huh

Is there also not a prayer in the Orthodox tradition which says:

"Again we pray that this sacred monastery (or this city). and every monastery, city, town, and every country may be preserved from famine, pestilence, earthquake, flood, fire, the sword, the invasion of aliens, and civil war; that our good and man-loving God may be gracious and favorable, that He may turn away all the wrath stirred up against us, and deliver us from His righteousness which hangeth over us, and have mercy on us."

 Sad

I believe aliens means strangers not ET`s Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2013, 03:34:52 PM »

Why would strangers invade Pennsylvania?  Huh   Look, I just don't want space aliens sucking my brains out through a straw, that's all!
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« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2013, 03:42:48 PM »

Why would strangers invade Pennsylvania?  Huh   Look, I just don't want space aliens sucking my brains out through a straw, that's all!

Think positive, maybe they are wraiths like in Stargate Atlantis and they will only suck your life.
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« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2013, 03:46:08 PM »

Sad  Do you remember the aliens from the movie Mars Attacks? They kept chasing people saying that they wanted to be friends... and then if they got close enough they'd shoot you and vaporize you!
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« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2013, 03:53:46 PM »

Sad  Do you remember the aliens from the movie Mars Attacks? They kept chasing people saying that they wanted to be friends... and then if they got close enough they'd shoot you and vaporize you!

Yes, but from what i remember they were the ones having problems with their brains.
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« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2013, 03:58:41 PM »

The more I think about all of this, the more uncertain I am! For example:

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" - Matt. 25:30

Here "darkness" can also be rendered "space," and we know that NASA is always whining (whining = complaining = crying = "weeping") about their budget. Is this therefore perhaps a prophecy?  Huh

Is there also not a prayer in the Orthodox tradition which says:

"Again we pray that this sacred monastery (or this city). and every monastery, city, town, and every country may be preserved from famine, pestilence, earthquake, flood, fire, the sword, the invasion of aliens, and civil war; that our good and man-loving God may be gracious and favorable, that He may turn away all the wrath stirred up against us, and deliver us from His righteousness which hangeth over us, and have mercy on us."

 Sad
Asteriktos, I can't tell you how much I missed gem posts such as these!   laugh
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« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2013, 04:14:55 PM »

It would totally scare the bejabbers out of me to go on a spacewalk. I'll stay on Earth and use a telescope, thank you please.
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« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2013, 04:24:20 PM »

Is there also not a prayer in the Orthodox tradition which says:

"Again we pray that this sacred monastery (or this city). and every monastery, city, town, and every country may be preserved from famine, pestilence, earthquake, flood, fire, the sword, the invasion of aliens, and civil war; that our good and man-loving God may be gracious and favorable, that He may turn away all the wrath stirred up against us, and deliver us from His righteousness which hangeth over us, and have mercy on us."

 Sad

I remember being at Vigil one day and the priest was reading this prayer, and included after "invasion of aliens and civil war" almost every conceivable modern problem, including terrorism (by land, sea, and air), biochemical warfare, race riots, cyberterrorism, HIV/AIDS, etc.  Wooo, what a prayer that was! 
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« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2013, 05:05:11 PM »

So we can find more resources to sustain ourselves since those dang Mormons, Indians, and Chinese can't stop birthing babies.
Wow. You really might want to read some of your posts before hitting the submitt button.

BTW, I have struggled with that button quite a bit myself.
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« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2013, 05:20:01 PM »

Meet the NASA scientist devising a starship warp drive

Quote
What is a space warp and how can it help?
A space warp works on the principle that you can expand and contract space at any speed. Take a terrestrial analogy. In airports we have moving walkways that help you cover distance quicker than you would otherwise. You are walking along at 3 miles an hour, and then you step onto the walkway. You are still walking at 3 miles an hour, but you are covering the distance much more quickly relative to somebody who isn't on the belt.

What would a starship with warp drive be like?
Imagine an American football, for simplicity, that has a toroidal ring around it attached with pylons. The football is where the crew and robotic systems would be, while the ring would contain exotic matter called negative vacuum energy, a consequence of quantum mechanics. The presence of this toroidal ring of negative vacuum energy is what's required from the math and physics to be able to use the warp trick.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929300.300-meet-the-nasa-scientist-devising-a-starship-warp-drive.html
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« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2013, 05:25:15 PM »

Meet the NASA scientist devising a starship warp drive

Quote
What is a space warp and how can it help?
A space warp works on the principle that you can expand and contract space at any speed. Take a terrestrial analogy. In airports we have moving walkways that help you cover distance quicker than you would otherwise. You are walking along at 3 miles an hour, and then you step onto the walkway. You are still walking at 3 miles an hour, but you are covering the distance much more quickly relative to somebody who isn't on the belt.

What would a starship with warp drive be like?
Imagine an American football, for simplicity, that has a toroidal ring around it attached with pylons. The football is where the crew and robotic systems would be, while the ring would contain exotic matter called negative vacuum energy, a consequence of quantum mechanics. The presence of this toroidal ring of negative vacuum energy is what's required from the math and physics to be able to use the warp trick.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929300.300-meet-the-nasa-scientist-devising-a-starship-warp-drive.html
Absolutely, ridiculously, AWESOME!
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« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2013, 05:52:49 PM »

Some say his imagination is overpaid. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2013, 07:27:17 PM »

Maybe God gave us another planet.
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« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2013, 08:26:08 PM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a fantastic question!
I'm so happy we addressed this before continuing.
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« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2013, 08:15:33 AM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a fantastic question!
I'm so happy we addressed this before continuing.
Probably because it is a false dilemma that really can't be addressed to anyone's satisfaction.  One can say the same thing about anything.  Why did Columbus spend so much time and money searching for the China when that could have been used to better the lives in Europe?  Why did explorers spend so much money looking for the South Pole? or money spent on deep sea exploration? or smart phone technology? or computers? or church buildings? or iconography? or...  Think of all that money that could be used instead to take care of the needy on earth.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2013, 08:31:50 AM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a fantastic question!
I'm so happy we addressed this before continuing.
Probably because it is a false dilemma that really can't be addressed to anyone's satisfaction.  One can say the same thing about anything.  Why did Columbus spend so much time and money searching for the China when that could have been used to better the lives in Europe?  Why did explorers spend so much money looking for the South Pole? or money spent on deep sea exploration? or smart phone technology? or computers? or church buildings? or iconography? or...  Think of all that money that could be used instead to take care of the needy on earth.  Roll Eyes
You don't think these questions haven't been asked and addressed.
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« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2013, 08:35:36 AM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a fantastic question!
I'm so happy we addressed this before continuing.
Probably because it is a false dilemma that really can't be addressed to anyone's satisfaction.  One can say the same thing about anything.  Why did Columbus spend so much time and money searching for the China when that could have been used to better the lives in Europe?  Why did explorers spend so much money looking for the South Pole? or money spent on deep sea exploration? or smart phone technology? or computers? or church buildings? or iconography? or...  Think of all that money that could be used instead to take care of the needy on earth.  Roll Eyes
You don't think these questions haven't been asked and addressed.
They have been asked and addressed. Many times over on this forum alone.  But since Kerdy insisted on pressing the point, I felt the need to provide a refresher.  Wink
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« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2013, 09:18:10 AM »

...why do we spend so much money looking for life in space when we don't take care of the lives here on earth?
That, is a fantastic question!
I'm so happy we addressed this before continuing.
Probably because it is a false dilemma that really can't be addressed to anyone's satisfaction.  One can say the same thing about anything.  Why did Columbus spend so much time and money searching for the China when that could have been used to better the lives in Europe?  Why did explorers spend so much money looking for the South Pole? or money spent on deep sea exploration? or smart phone technology? or computers? or church buildings? or iconography? or...  Think of all that money that could be used instead to take care of the needy on earth.  Roll Eyes
You don't think these questions haven't been asked and addressed.

Not some of them at least that I've ever seen/read. Columbus and the other explorers were supported, at least in part, in the interests of the rulers who did it for things like finding sources of materials and goods, expanding influence and empire (recall that both Spain and Portugal and the extension of both countries to both the Americas and Asia) and more.  Those things could be somehow to "better the lives in Europe" or at least some of them. And the larger scale movements like some of the organizations that I mentioned above don't fit in with the general mindset of the late Middle Ages into Renaissance time frame, it seems to me.

How much really was invested in the groups who were attempting to reach the South Pole?  Who would have objected to the funding since much of it was donations of goods or private from what I've read. 

I have read objections to money being spent on church buildings, decorations and such things as chalices and vestments, some of that here on OC.net and people have answered and discussed them. 

Suggestion:  can things like this at least sometimes be a case of "this subject doesn't interest me/I don't like it, so why should it get money/time/effort that could go to something that I do support?"

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« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2013, 09:22:15 AM »

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the point often that, whether your interests are economic, educational, or whatever else, it is in the best interest of everyone for us to explore, and I think that can be applied whether we are talking about the depths of the oceans, the forest wilds, or the place we call space. Positive advancement often comes on the heels of a willingness to indulge our natural curiosity to explore the unknown.

I'm not against financing the exploration of the unknown, just not at the expense of financing the problems that are known. Science too often puts the cart ahead of the horse.


Selam

Could you please give some examples of this? 
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« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM »

The issue is though, we don't know what we don't know.  In the course of space exploration, we very well might find or develop technology that can significantly help the lives of people here on earth.  The NASA program has already given us many great technological developments that probably would not have been discovered if it had not been for them.  It is kind of the point of science in general.  To learn more about the world around us and apply that knowledge base to problems that can be solved.
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« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2013, 09:33:09 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question? 

Wow! Cry
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« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2013, 09:36:40 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question? 

Wow! Cry
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
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« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2013, 09:39:18 AM »

Without studying space, we wouldn't have satellites.  Without those, we wouldn't have much of the communications and connectivity we have today.  I suppose that is a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.

In addition there are the weather satellites.  Those have been very good to have for warnings of incoming hurricanes for example.  My mother was a teenager living on Long Island in 1938.  She and a friend walked to high school in a storm in September.  The principal sent them home because it was so bad that officials said it was a hurricane.  This was the one known as the Great New England Hurricane.  But since many people did not know what to expect my mother told me that they came outside in the eye and then the back-wall hit.  The death toll was somewhere between 650 and 800 people with many more injured.  

Now such storms can be tracked and people can be warned.  Those lost to Sandy last year were about 148 and that's from the Caribbean area up to Canada, not just part of the U.S.  

So I'm glad that NASA is there to put up useful satellites and that is a big part of their budget.
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« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2013, 09:42:17 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question? 

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here. 

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2013, 09:43:12 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question? 

Wow! Cry

Perhaps if the OP would expand on it, it might be more clear.  Or the intent could be as The Trisagion has written.  
What do you think is the meaning, please?
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« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2013, 09:48:00 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question? 

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here. 

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes
LOL, I think you have me confused with Achronos. I don't mind capitalism and I never posted in the breastfeeding thread.  It was closed before I could join in on the fun.  Sad
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« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2013, 12:39:26 PM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question? 

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here. 

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes

Perhaps. But since you did not make the first post in the thread it is possible that your interpretation is not the one intended by the OP. 
That person would be the one to clarify things, I think.
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« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2013, 12:45:58 PM »

Nothing is more needful and provides more utility than what is useless.

"The poor you will always have with you", said Truth Incarnate once.
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« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2013, 01:00:36 PM »

Nothing is more needful and provides more utility than what is useless.



 Huh
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« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2013, 01:09:05 PM »

The research in pure science (knowledge for knowledge, no technology in mind), the study of non-applied mathematics, the struggle for art that is just beautiful instead of pedagogical, of architecture that is meaningful instead of just useful, not only has resisted the enthropy of time, it forms the vary foundation of all the applied forms of those sciences and techniques.

Love, faith, hope, good, beauty, justice, are all useless things in pragmatical terms. One does not need them to live materially satisfied and even "spiritually" if you blind yourself to them.

There is a spiritual disease the Pagan Greeks called apeirokalia, the lack of perception of what is beautiful. That's an epidemia in our days.

We explore space because it's a beautiful awesome thing to do. And many useful technologies and life improvements come as side-effects from that.

Nothing is more needful and provides more utility than what is useless.
Huh
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« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2013, 01:13:50 PM »

The research in pure science (knowledge for knowledge, no technology in mind), the study of non-applied mathematics, the struggle for art that is just beautiful instead of pedagogical, of architecture that is meaningful instead of just useful, not only has resisted the enthropy of time, it forms the vary foundation of all the applied forms of those sciences and techniques.

Love, faith, hope, good, beauty, justice, are all useless things in pragmatical terms. One does not need them to live materially satisfied and even "spiritually" if you blind yourself to them.

There is a spiritual disease the Pagan Greeks called apeirokalia, the lack of perception of what is beautiful. That's an epidemia in our days.

We explore space because it's a beautiful awesome thing to do. And many useful technologies and life improvements come as side-effects from that.

Nothing is more needful and provides more utility than what is useless.
Huh
Dude, this is awesome. I think we've been reading the same books.
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« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2013, 02:18:40 PM »

This is precisely what I thought you meant!!  I just wanted to get more than one sentence about it out of you by way of elaboration--for the sake of the beauty of the written word.  Wink Thank you!

The research in pure science (knowledge for knowledge, no technology in mind), the study of non-applied mathematics, the struggle for art that is just beautiful instead of pedagogical, of architecture that is meaningful instead of just useful, not only has resisted the enthropy of time, it forms the vary foundation of all the applied forms of those sciences and techniques.

Love, faith, hope, good, beauty, justice, are all useless things in pragmatical terms. One does not need them to live materially satisfied and even "spiritually" if you blind yourself to them.

There is a spiritual disease the Pagan Greeks called apeirokalia, the lack of perception of what is beautiful. That's an epidemia in our days.

We explore space because it's a beautiful awesome thing to do. And many useful technologies and life improvements come as side-effects from that.

Nothing is more needful and provides more utility than what is useless.
Huh
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« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2013, 09:12:12 PM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question?  

Wow! Cry

Perhaps if the OP would expand on it, it might be more clear.  Or the intent could be as The Trisagion has written.  
What do you think is the meaning, please?

It isn’t that difficult really.  

On Earth, we steal from each other not because he must, but because we want something so we just take it.  Breaking into homes, stealing cars with kids still in them, looting stores because we don’t like a court ruling, etc.  We murder millions of innocent unborn babies every year out of convenience, not medical necessity, but that is the lie we keep telling ourselves.  We wage war and kill each other for money, land, religion, power, or anything which we think will give us something we want, committing genocide and no one cares.  People are raped and tortured for no better reason than, “Because I can”.  We care more for our self than our neighbor and if it doesn’t affect us directly, we don’t care.  Only when we get affected do we say anything.  We let child molesters out of prison for foolish reasons.  And I could go on and on and on…

Few people on this planet give a rip about anyone else.  If live isn’t important here, why are we wasting so much effort to find it elsewhere just so it won’t be important there either?  Or, why is life there more important than life here?  That’s the question(s).

There is nothing "wrong" with space exploration.  It just doesn't make sense if we don't care out life here, and as a species, we don't.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 09:14:55 PM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2013, 09:12:54 PM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question? 

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here. 

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes
LOL, I think you have me confused with Achronos. I don't mind capitalism and I never posted in the breastfeeding thread.  It was closed before I could join in on the fun.  Sad

Yet, you felt the need to mention as if you had.
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« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2013, 08:03:22 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question?  

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here.  

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes
LOL, I think you have me confused with Achronos. I don't mind capitalism and I never posted in the breastfeeding thread.  It was closed before I could join in on the fun.  Sad

Yet, you felt the need to mention as if you had.
Probably because I read it and was quite amused by everyone trying to figure out what your supposed question was and every time they came up with what they thought it was, you just told them they were wrong and lambasted them for not reading the thread thoroughly enough and never actually repeated your question so they could address it. Truth be told, I read the whole thread and I couldn't figure out what supposed question you had posed either.  It is ironic that you were so upset that they didn't read the entire thread to look for your question, but you couldn't be bothered enough to go back and read the thread to see if I actually had posted there.  laugh
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 08:04:26 AM by TheTrisagion » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2013, 08:06:07 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question?  

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here.  

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes
LOL, I think you have me confused with Achronos. I don't mind capitalism and I never posted in the breastfeeding thread.  It was closed before I could join in on the fun.  Sad

Yet, you felt the need to mention as if you had.
Probably because I read it and was quite amused by everyone trying to figure out what your supposed question was and every time they came up with what they thought it was, you just told them they were wrong and lambasted them for not reading the thread thoroughly enough and never actually repeated your question so they could address it. Truth be told, I read the whole thread and I couldn't figure out what supposed question you had posed either.  It is ironic that you were so upset that they didn't read the entire thread to look for your question, but you couldn't be bothered enough to go back and read the thread to see if I actually had posted there.  laugh

Oh well, the modern education system.  What can I say?  If people can't read and comprehend what they read, it isn't my fault or my problem.
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« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2013, 08:08:32 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question?  

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here.  

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes
LOL, I think you have me confused with Achronos. I don't mind capitalism and I never posted in the breastfeeding thread.  It was closed before I could join in on the fun.  Sad

Yet, you felt the need to mention as if you had.
Probably because I read it and was quite amused by everyone trying to figure out what your supposed question was and every time they came up with what they thought it was, you just told them they were wrong and lambasted them for not reading the thread thoroughly enough and never actually repeated your question so they could address it. Truth be told, I read the whole thread and I couldn't figure out what supposed question you had posed either.  It is ironic that you were so upset that they didn't read the entire thread to look for your question, but you couldn't be bothered enough to go back and read the thread to see if I actually had posted there.  laugh

Oh well, the modern education system.  What can I say?  If people can't read and comprehend what they read, it isn't my fault or my problem.
Or the alternative is you didn't actually ask a question but used it as a deflection technique because you knew you lost the argument.

But I suspect this is slightly off topic from space exploration.
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« Reply #87 on: August 21, 2013, 08:18:46 AM »

Do you all really not understand the meaning and intent behind the question?  

Wow!
I could postulate a guess that it was meant for personal reflection on how we should help those around us, but no doubt you will tell us that that is not the meaning and intent behind the question.  Then, as in the breastfeeding thread, you will expect us to spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to guess what the meaning and intent was until everyone loses interest.  Tongue

Did I guess right?  Wink
Well, you never did figure out the nudity (not nursing) issue after a dozen times of having it explained so Ill just refrain from tossing any pearls here.  

How's this sound...capitalism is evil.  Better? Roll Eyes
LOL, I think you have me confused with Achronos. I don't mind capitalism and I never posted in the breastfeeding thread.  It was closed before I could join in on the fun.  Sad

Yet, you felt the need to mention as if you had.
Probably because I read it and was quite amused by everyone trying to figure out what your supposed question was and every time they came up with what they thought it was, you just told them they were wrong and lambasted them for not reading the thread thoroughly enough and never actually repeated your question so they could address it. Truth be told, I read the whole thread and I couldn't figure out what supposed question you had posed either.  It is ironic that you were so upset that they didn't read the entire thread to look for your question, but you couldn't be bothered enough to go back and read the thread to see if I actually had posted there.  laugh

Oh well, the modern education system.  What can I say?  If people can't read and comprehend what they read, it isn't my fault or my problem.
Or the alternative is you didn't actually ask a question but used it as a deflection technique because you knew you lost the argument.

But I suspect this is slightly off topic from space exploration.
You got me.  Guilt as charged. Roll Eyes

Way off topic.
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« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2013, 10:25:02 AM »

I don't think this is a dichotomy and both should be pursued.  As with anything, the motivation is what counts.  If you are feeding the poor to look cool, then some power to you because the end often justifies the means - some starving bloke still gets food in his gut.  But if you are storing up treasures in heaven, more power to you.  If you are exploring space for the unadulterated love of money, then you are in the wrong, but good may still come from it.  Technology can be used for the betterment of man, even if the betterment of a man was the intent.  But if you are doing it for the sake of knowledge and to improve life, then it is very likely that what you accomplish will affect many more lives than just feeding a couple blokes would have done - weather knowledge is the example given most frequently, it seems, and proper forecasting has saved countless lives.  Perhaps that money could have been spent on feeding 10 people who starved but then over the course of a couple hurricane seasons the lives of 1000 are saved that otherwise would have perished without proper forewarning. 
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« Reply #89 on: August 23, 2013, 09:05:13 PM »

WOW ! I love space too! I have seen people wanting alien encounters,and not people in counter.
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« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2013, 11:48:34 AM »

Well, if I understand what you wrote correctly generally I'd say that humans "encounter" other people very often in one way or another   Smiley 

But "alien encounters" are not the reason for most of the interest in Astronomy, astrophysics and the space program, I'll wager. 

Gayle, would you please give some explanation for your original post and your thoughts on the subject?  As you can read in the thread there were some different thoughts on why you started this thread and what you meant.

Thank you.
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