Topic: Orthodoxy and Anti-Semitism

[Anastasios]

Matthew and Nacho,

I think anyone that supports the State of Israel unconditionally is anti-Christian.

Anastasios

[Stavro]

I am of the persuasion that anyone who hates the nation of Israel and supports the Palestinians in their belief that the nation doesn't have the right to exist is an anti-semite. I am not trying to be insulting but that is just how I feel.

1. What if your feelings are wrong ? Can you justify your position and try to connect between both views, which I personally feel are unrelated ?
2. Why is criticism to israel as a state different than criticism to France, Germany, USA, or any other state in history ?
I believe there is opposition in Israel, and they do not approve of all the politics of Israel. Does this make the Jews anti-semitic ?
3. Semitic includes Arabs, whether we like it or not. Just a fact of life. Maybe the better word then is anti-Jews or so.
4. Orthodoxy advocates love for everybody. SO that should take care of replying the original question.
5. As I said, Protestant pastors and preachers have made it almost a sacrament to love Israel. I can argue that approving of the masacre of Sabra and Shatilah, 1982, or Deer Yasin, 1932, or the oppression and occupation of the West Bank and Ghaza are totally against christians morals. On the other hand, I do not approve of corruption of the PLO, or suicide bombers, ..... . It is equally dangerous to try to summarize christianity in loving the Jews ONLY and try to make up promises in the Bible to verify their existence as a state. They do not teach the Bible when they advocate pro-Israeli view, they teach their own interests and those of their sponsors.

I agree totally with Anastasios view.

[sdcheung]

Matthew and Nacho,

I think anyone that supports the State of Israel unconditionally is anti-Christian.

Anastasios

Exactly, Akrivos, Malista

[Nacho]

Matthew and Nacho,

I think anyone that supports the State of Israel unconditionally is anti-Christian.

Anastasios

In one of my post above I stated I don't support either side. My opinion is that we should just let them duke it out and to the victor goes the spoils. I think war in this case is a good way to solve age old problems reak quick.

[sdcheung]

In one of my post above I stated I don't support either side. My opinion is that we should just let them duke it out and to the victor goes the spoils. I think war in this case is a good way to solve age old problems reak quick.

Hello..
the Palestinians are Ill equipped.
we must disarm israel first before letting them fight each other on equal terms

[Nacho]

Hello..
the Palestinians are Ill equipped.
we must disarm israel first before letting them fight each other on equal terms

I think I would agree with that also. Both sides should be equally equiped before both sides slug it out. I really have no opinion about either side and could really care less. It's not like I'm ever going to meet an israeli or palestinian anytime soon and I'm tired of hearing about this conflict all the time.

[Ibrahim]

Hello..
the Palestinians are Ill equipped.
we must disarm israel first before letting them fight each other on equal terms

Or arm the Palestinians. hehe. It has never been a fair fight, the Israelis have always had more troops, more money more guns more everything. Even in 1948. We were not a goliath and they were not David. We were David. We had combined 28,000 troops, they had 35-6,000 and at the peak of battle had about 96,000. There were just more states on our side. Then, with Palestinians (who never had a real army mind you, thats why we went in for them whih was probably not  good idea anyway) who have rocks, young people with rocks they shoot with tanks or machine guns. When the Palestinians get a bomb or a gun they bring tanks to innocent peoples homes. not to the militants. When Palestinians get a tank will they use their nuclear bomb? Perhaps you are right to disarm the Israelis, but not just them, the Palestinians as well. And put the two oldest/weakest of them to gether so they cannot fight. I see them toake Gaza, West Bank ok, that is of Palestine, they are occupying Palestine. But then they take part of Syria! they take Golan. This is not part ofPalestine, it isSYria. They did not take Egypt or Jordan. They gave back Saini, but they will not give back Golan. It is so unfair. They say they want to live in peace but they still sit in our country with their fat cat settlers. I hate it because then the government justifys occupying Lebanon with it. I mean, why not just sent settlers to parts of Israel and see how they like it? Or take part of their lnd and then give the people there Syrian citizenship. They would nuke us!

[sdcheung]

Or arm the Palestinians. hehe. It has never been a fair fight, the Israelis have always had more troops, more money more guns more everything. Even in 1948. We were not a goliath and they were not David. We were David. We had combined 28,000 troops, they had 35-6,000 and at the peak of battle had about 96,000. There were just more states on our side. Then, with Palestinians (who never had a real army mind you, thats why we went in for them whih was probably not good idea anyway) who have rocks, young people with rocks they shoot with tanks or machine guns. When the Palestinians get a bomb or a gun they bring tanks to innocent peoples homes. not to the militants. When Palestinians get a tank will they use their nuclear bomb? Perhaps you are right to disarm the Israelis, but not just them, the Palestinians as well. And put the two oldest/weakest of them to gether so they cannot fight. I see them toake Gaza, West Bank ok, that is of Palestine, they are occupying Palestine. But then they take part of Syria! they take Golan. This is not part ofPalestine, it isSYria. They did not take Egypt or Jordan. They gave back Saini, but they will not give back Golan. It is so unfair. They say they want to live in peace but they still sit in our country with their fat cat settlers. I hate it because then the government justifys occupying Lebanon with it. I mean, why not just sent settlers to parts of Israel and see how they like it? Or take part of their lnd and then give the people there Syrian citizenship. They would nuke us!

Nod. yeah it wasn't a fair fight.

[sdcheung]

I think Jennifer asked my experience of Jews.
Not very good.
My house on the Island was built by a Iranian Jew, you would think they'd be different from the Euro Jews, NO WAY.
exhorted more money from us, then built a shoddy house. Never put in Central Air Conditioning when it was in the contract, instead told us to pay more. So we still have a shoddily built house. with no Central Air, while this greedy bashtard lives in Great Neck.


 

[Mor Ephrem]

This is a silly reason to dislike Jews, as there are dishonest people in every group.  If you're gonna hate, at least hate better.   

[sdcheung]

who's hating.
I DO hate a shoddily built house that also happens to be built by a Jew. 

Yeah I agree, there are alot of dishonest people. The ethnic group who operates Motels. The ethnic group that operates diners.  The ethnic group that are into criminality, though they pin it on another group..Like jews who are gangsters, but use italians as a cover. yeah..all dishonest.

Oh it's not a silly reason..come over to the "island" sometime, I'll show you.

[Matthew777]

There is a difference between criticizing Israel's policies and believing the nation does not have the right to exist.

[sdcheung]

There is a difference between criticizing Israel's policies and believing the nation does not have the right to exist.

Can't it exist somewhere else?
Like madagascar, maybe?

[Jennifer]

who's hating.
I DO hate a shoddily built house that also happens to be built by a Jew.

Yeah I agree, there are alot of dishonest people. The ethnic group who operates Motels. The ethnic group that operates diners. The ethnic group that are into criminality, though they pin it on another group..Like jews who are gangsters, but use italians as a cover. yeah..all dishonest.

Oh it's not a silly reason..come over to the "island" sometime, I'll show you.

You're nothing but a racist and don't deserve a serious response. 

[Matthew777]

Can't it exist somewhere else?
Like madagascar, maybe?

That would not be the land which God gave to them.

[Marjorie]

since jews killed jesus, I believe that God has turned his back on them. and gone for us Gentiles and Goyim now. Thus we have the Orthodox Church

What's with the corporate guilt? Am I rejected by God, even if I accept his Church, because my bloodline dates back to a tribe which consented to the death of Christ? How about St. Paul, that "Hebrew of Hebrews"? Or, um, the Holy Apostles? Shouldn't they be rejected by God because of their people's mistake?

Jews who reject Christ are outside of God's people simply because they reject Christ HERE and NOW; no more than any other person (whether you're Chinese, Italian, Greek, Arab, or so on) that rejects Christ and His Church HERE and NOW. It has NOTHING to do with the Jewish ethnicity actually being rejected. Christ HIMSELF was of that ethnicity.

The Holy Orthodox Church does NOT consist of (as you said) "us Gentiles" alone. Why assume that you were only speaking to Gentiles? I am not a Gentile. I am Jewish in ethnicity. But I am joining the Orthodox Church. The original Church was founded by a bunch of Jews.

Forgive me, but what a load of crap! And how unbiblical.

Marjorie

[sdcheung]

What's with the corporate guilt? Am I rejected by God, even if I accept his Church, because my bloodline dates back to a tribe which consented to the death of Christ? How about St. Paul, that "Hebrew of Hebrews"? Or, um, the Holy Apostles? Shouldn't they be rejected by God because of their people's mistake?

Jews who reject Christ are outside of God's people simply because they reject Christ HERE and NOW; no more than any other person (whether you're Chinese, Italian, Greek, Arab, or so on) that rejects Christ and His Church HERE and NOW. It has NOTHING to do with the Jewish ethnicity actually being rejected. Christ HIMSELF was of that ethnicity.

The Holy Orthodox Church does NOT consist of (as you said) "us Gentiles" alone. Why assume that you were only speaking to Gentiles? I am not a Gentile. I am Jewish in ethnicity. But I am joining the Orthodox Church. The original Church was founded by a bunch of Jews.

Forgive me, but what a load of crap! And how unbiblical.

Marjorie

yes your saved.

[Strelets]

I think Jennifer asked my experience of Jews.
Not very good.
My house on the Island was built by a Iranian Jew, you would think they'd be different from the Euro Jews, NO WAY.
exhorted more money from us, then built a shoddy house. Never put in Central Air Conditioning when it was in the contract, instead told us to pay more. So we still have a shoddily built house. with no Central Air, while this greedy bashtard lives in Great Neck.

Based on these kind of words and your tone in this thread, you've convinced me you're anti-Semitic. And please save the word deconstruction game. Anti-Semitism is a colloquial term for hatred of Jews. True, technically the "n" word means someone who's lazy, but I doubt you have the balls to throw that epithet at blacks in a public forum and then claim you're using the word according to its understood meaning. Sorry, but many of us are old enough to know better.

I think anyone that supports the State of Israel unconditionally is anti-Christian.

Did those guys say they supported the State of Israel "unconditionally?" I support the State of Israel and its right to exist. The term "unconditionally" has nothing to do with the debate, as I don't even support my own government unconditionally. Supporting the Palestinian Authority unconditionally is just as nonsensical, especially considering their theft of Orthodox property and their launching of missiles at Israeli civilians from Orthodox areas knowing full well Israel will fire back into that area, and thusly blame the Christians. They even squatted in the Holy Sepulchre with their weapons, using the Church as a cover while shooting and killing others. By the way, you do know that the Palestinian government forcefully seized ROCOR monastic property and handed it to the MP, yes? HH Alexei II just the other day thanked Abu Mazen for it, to the anger of ROCOR bishops. You also know the PLO targeted and killed Americans in the past? Kinda changes the whole dynamics of the debate...

[sdcheung]

Based on these kind of words and your tone in this thread, you've convinced me you're anti-Semitic.  And please save the word deconstruction game.  Anti-Semitism is a colloquial term for hatred of Jews.  True, technically the "n" word means someone who's lazy, but I doubt you have the balls to throw that epithet at blacks in a public forum and then claim you're using the word according to its understood meaning.  Sorry, but many of us are old enough to know better.



Did those guys say they supported the State of Israel "unconditionally?"  I support the State of Israel and its right to exist.  The term "unconditionally" has nothing to do with the debate, as I don't even support my own government unconditionally.  Supporting the Palestinian Authority unconditionally is just as nonsensical, especially considering their theft of Orthodox property and their launching of missiles at Israeli civilians from Orthodox areas knowing full well Israel will fire back into that area, and thusly blame the Christians.  They even squatted in the Holy Sepulchre with their weapons, using the Church as a cover while shooting and killing others.  By the way, you do know that the Palestinian government forcefully seized ROCOR monastic property and handed it to the MP, yes?  HH Alexei II just the other day thanked Abu Mazen for it, to the anger of ROCOR bishops.  You also know the PLO targeted and killed Americans in the past?  Kinda changes the whole dynamics of the debate...

wait wait WAIT a frellin minute..you mean Niggeredly?

yeah Niggeredly..durr. whats the big frellin deal?

and You don't know me boy. I've thrown that epithet around since Grade school. 
call me whatever PC name you want like anti-semite, in my sphere you don't matter much.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO weeeeeeee I've been called a an anti-semite..yipppe! LOLOLOL

Graphic comment taken out.

Watch your words, sdcheung.  ~ Pedro

[Fr. David]

I support the State of Israel and its right to exist.  The term "unconditionally" has nothing to do with the debate, as I don't even support my own government unconditionally.  Supporting the Palestinian Authority unconditionally is just as nonsensical, especially considering their theft of Orthodox property and their launching of missiles at Israeli civilians from Orthodox areas knowing full well Israel will fire back into that area, and thusly blame the Christians.

I agree with everything here.

While I may rail against those who want to call the Jewish people "God's chosen people" as is, I think they have a right to at least have a place of their own, since it's clear not a lot of people want them in "their" countries.

However--I don't think they have any sort of "divine right" from the Scriptures or anywhere else to any certain tracts of land in the Mid East, as all of the prophecies given to "Israel" have been transferred to the Church...WE are Israel now, and that word no longer has nothing to do w/who yo' Daddy is, as has been mentioned.

So the Jews' "right to at least have a place of their own" that I mentioned doesn't come from God's direct decree, but does (or should) come perhaps from His common movement within human hearts to show a little compassion, for cryin' out loud.  And yeah, there are other holocausts going on in the world, and I think the tribes in the Sudan need their traditional lands back, too!  All the dispossessed people in Eastern Europe need a place to call their own, too!  EVERYONE needs a place to hang their hat; I think that's just part of being HUMAN.

I also think that's why it's absolutely necessary to work towards a sovereign Palestinian state, as well.  They've been injustly kicked off lands their ancestors had lived in for years and are more than justified in their (seemingly unrequitable) frustration and anger.

Have mercy, Oh Lord upon ALL world rulers, that we may ALL live calm and peaceful lives in all godliness and dignity...

[Nacho]

I'll state again on the matter, what we need is war and not peace in this conflict. The real problem are the pacifist and other nutty leftist that dictate to both the palestinians and jews that the only way they can solve thier problems is by talking about thier misgivings and problems with each other. Well, we've had decades of the same problems with the same results in that geographic area because of these silly policies that have acomplished nothing. So I say lets give war a chance this time around, not peace.
sarcasm off/

Did those guys say they supported the State of Israel "unconditionally?" I support the State of Israel and its right to exist. The term "unconditionally" has nothing to do with the debate, as I don't even support my own government unconditionally. Supporting the Palestinian Authority unconditionally is just as nonsensical, especially considering their theft of Orthodox property and their launching of missiles at Israeli civilians from Orthodox areas knowing full well Israel will fire back into that area, and thusly blame the Christians. They even squatted in the Holy Sepulchre with their weapons, using the Church as a cover while shooting and killing others. By the way, you do know that the Palestinian government forcefully seized ROCOR monastic property and handed it to the MP, yes? HH Alexei II just the other day thanked Abu Mazen for it, to the anger of ROCOR bishops. You also know the PLO targeted and killed Americans in the past? Kinda changes the whole dynamics of the debate...

Wow, I didn't know some islamo-fascist had the propensity to destroy and blow up things, that's news to me :-.. I'm not really a supporter of the state of isreal, but I do favor them a little seeing they are one of the few democracy's in that whole region who act in a much more civil manner. I'm sure both Israel and the palestinian fanactics both persecute christians, so in that regard I wouldn't care if both dropped off the face of this earth.

[J]

Here's an interesting question:

It seems that you're obviously in the military (so was I)....how do you feel about serving for a government with an obvious pro-Zionist stance.

I'm not chiding you....remember, I was in the military too.

How do you feel about living comfortably under and contributing financially (via taxes) to a government with an obvious pro-Zionist stance? Answer that, and you'll probably have an answer similar to anything could come up with for your question.

[Anastasios]

Did those guys say they supported the State of Israel "unconditionally?" I support the State of Israel and its right to exist. The term "unconditionally" has nothing to do with the debate, as I don't even support my own government unconditionally.

I use my words for a reason, and my use of the modifier "unconditionally" was deliberate.

M. made the statement that those who oppose the State of Israel's right to exist are anti-Semitic, and N. agreed. That's a rather extreme statement given that that view has not really been thrown around here except by sdcheung. The majority consenses of the critics of Israel seems to be the feeling that they are wrong but have some right to be there now that they are there. That M. said it only leads me to believe that he was exaggerating in an attempt to provoke.

In the same vein, while no one has said that they support Israel unconditionally (and I did not accuse them of saying that they support Israel unconditionally; if I wanted to accuse them I would by name), but I made a statement on the opposite extreme--on purpose. I do know a great deal of people who do support the State of Israel unconditionally (and I mean that deliberately; there are some who see no wrong in Israel), and my comment was both directed at such people and also meant to be as extreme on the opposite end of the spectrum as M.'s comment to make a point about exaggeration.

For the record, I don't think that denying Israel's right to exist in any way makes one anti-Semitic, and I think to say it does assumes a lot of motive in someone else.

As for the rest of your comments, I suppose they were supposed to provoke me but they didn't. I am not a ROCOR partisan, I don't hate the MP, and that Palestinians have killed Americans doesn't change my mind because Americans have killed Muslims in politically-motivated moves as well.

Anastasios

[Pravoslavbob]

You're nothing but a racist and don't deserve a serious response.

I second that.

[sdcheung]

I second that.

Didn't I just say, that I don't care what you or jennifer says?
You second thrid or fourth whatever you want.
You just prove your both brainwashed people. playing into their hands.

[prodromos]

That would not be the land which God gave to them.

The Good Lord gives and the Good Lord taketh away. After the events of 70 AD, I think God made it pretty clear that He was taking the land away from them.

John.

Oops. Didn't notice the thread had been locked. Carry on, nothing to see here, move along now.