OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 02, 2014, 03:50:33 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Orthodoxy and Anti-Semitism  (Read 9021 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« on: February 02, 2005, 03:37:11 PM »

I asked this question (perhaps it's rhetorical?) on the thread that was closed.  Why do a certain subset of Orthodox Christians have anti-semitic beliefs? 

We know that the Elders of the Protocols of  Zion was written by the Czar's secret police.  Before the Holocaust, most of the atrocities perpetrated against the Jews happened in Eastern Europe (admittedly also in Roman Catholic Poland and Eastern Catholic Ukraine).  Of course, most European Jews lived in Eastern Europe. 

What sparked this is a very anti-semitic PM I just received where I was informed that it is Un-Orthodox to be friendly to Jews. (netiquette prevents me from identifying the source of the PM)  That's absurd, of course. 

I find this kind of anti-semitic paranoia very embarrasing.  Of course I'm not suggesting that other Christians are immune to this abhorrent behavior.  Maybe the better question is why are so many Christians anti-semitic? 

Let's put aside discussions of Israel here because claims about the Protocols, etc. have nothing to do with Israel. 

Logged
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2005, 03:44:09 PM »

Jennifer...

Most likely these anti-Semites live in Europe (which is apparent from the mere topic title of that locked thread).

Also, to be Orthodox is to be Christian (obviously).....and Christians are not supposed to be un-friendly toward anyone, I don't care if they're Satanists.

ya dig? Afro
Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
Ibrahim
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 64


« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2005, 03:45:07 PM »

Quote
What sparked this is a very anti-semitic PM I just received where I was informed that it is Un-Orthodox to be friendly to Jews. (netiquette prevents me from identifying the source of the PM)  That's absurd, of course.

I agree, I would add that it is unChristian in general to hold such hateful beliefs to another of God's children.
Logged

At any rate, I do not believe that there is a man in the USA who accepts to live in illusion who says that peace will be recognized between the Arabs and Israel even if the occupation of the occupied Arab territories does not come to an end.
The late
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2005, 03:47:39 PM »

Really how can anyone be anti-semitic? Arabs are semites I don't hate them. Jews I dislike, But I don't "hate" them. and YET the jews tell me to Hate Arabs because they blow themselves up in a jerusalem market. bah.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 03:48:06 PM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2005, 03:48:57 PM »



I agree, I would add that it is unChristian in general to hold such hateful beliefs to another of God's children.

since jews killed jesus, I believe that God has turned his back on them. and gone for us Gentiles and Goyim now. Thus we have the Orthodox Church
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2005, 03:53:22 PM »

God didn't really "turn His back on them" per se.  The Jews "after the flesh" were merely a parenthesis to God's overall plan to global salvation....to Jews "after the Spirit".

In God's progressive revelation, the Church Universal superseded and did away with the physical circumcision.  This is why as Orthodox, we cannot dogmatically support Zionism the way that ultra-Fundamentalist Protestants do.
Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2005, 03:54:32 PM »

Really how can anyone be anti-semitic? Arabs are semites I don't hate them. Jews I dislike, But I don't "hate" them. and YET the jews tell me to Hate Arabs because they blow themselves up in a jerusalem market. bah.

It's racist and bigoted to "dislike" members of an ethnic group simply because of their ethnicity.  Bigotry and racism are both un-Christian and un-Orthodox. 
Logged
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2005, 03:55:32 PM »



since jews killed jesus, I believe that God has turned his back on them. and gone for us Gentiles and Goyim now. Thus we have the Orthodox Church

God can't turn his back on any of his creatures.  Jews, like Gentiles, are made in the image of God. 

Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2005, 03:58:13 PM »

I don't like Zionism and I don't like the "State" of Israel. I believe in the Palestinian cause. However, I find Holocaust denial to be appaling, believe that Israel has the right to defend itself to some extent when suicide bombers strike civilians, and find many Jewish people to be models of a strong work ethic and people to look up to.

I think the problem is when people come to an Orthodox Christian site they don't expect to hear Holocaust denial, they don't expect to see things written against the Jewish people as a race, etc. Zionism in my opinion is fair game for discussion, as is the Jewish religion. But to deny the Holocaust or "downplay it", or issue gross overgeneralizations about Jewish people (such as "Jews are cheap") is distasteful in my view and does not serve to benefit us as Christians, even though I will admit that sometimes these stereotypes are true--yet how often are stereotypes about US true?

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2005, 03:59:32 PM »

your equating "dislike" with racism or bigotry.
I'm nopt racist or Bigotted, how can "i" be when IO'm Chinese I know all about racism and Bigotry. trust me the Jews have it good.

They control the media, money institutions etc. Then they whine about the "injustices" that had been done them?
look at me..
I never complained about the stuff the Japanese have done to my people, in Nanking, in Singapore in ww2. We held up our heads stoically. only biding our time. Smiley
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2005, 03:59:46 PM »

I remember back when I was a Presbyterian (who are all heretics I might add), the minister gave a sermon about how you can dislike someone without hating them.

I totally disagree with that. To dislike someone IS to hate someone. To be angry at someone IS to hate someone.

ya'll hearin' me?
Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2005, 04:02:04 PM »


I think the problem is when people come to an Orthodox Christian site they don't expect to hear Holocaust denial, they don't expect to see things written against the Jewish people as a race, etc. 

Precisely and it's SO embarrassing. 

Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2005, 04:04:04 PM »



Precisely and it's SO embarrassing.



Embarassing for you.
not for me or some Cradle Born Orthodox
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2005, 04:04:14 PM »

your equating "dislike" with racism or bigotry.
I'm nopt racist or Bigotted, how can "i" be when IO'm Chinese I know all about racism and Bigotry. trust me the Jews have it good.

They control the media, money institutions etc. Then they whine about the "injustices" that had been done them?
look at me..
I never complained about the stuff the Japanese have done to my people, in Nanking, in Singapore in ww2. We held up our heads stoically. only biding our time. Smiley

This rant is a perfect example of racism and bigotry.  How do you know that "they" control the media, etc? 
Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2005, 04:07:12 PM »

read the credits.
read the newspapers sidebars where it says editors and ownership.
chances are they are "orthopoxed"
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2005, 04:07:19 PM »

since jews killed jesus, I believe that God has turned his back on them. and gone for us Gentiles and Goyim now. Thus we have the Orthodox Church

Read Romans 11 and get back to me, sdcheung. We may be here, but he hasn't "turned his back" on the Jewish people for good.
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2005, 04:10:52 PM »

Pedro, was your "religion" above your icon a joke or a typo? Grin

Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,467


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2005, 04:12:58 PM »

read the credits.
read the newspapers sidebars where it says editors and ownership.
chances are they are "orthopoxed"

Them Orientals (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, who cares, they all look the same) must be the wealthiest people in the world. 

After all, most of the stuff I own seems to be either made in China, Taiwan, Korea, or Japan.






NOTE:  SARCASM ALERT!  SARCASM ALERT!
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2005, 04:13:23 PM »

Instead of turning this thread into a 'discussion' with anti-semite, I'd prefer to discuss why anti-semitism and Orthodoxy seem to go hand in hand. 

Are our priests and bishops not doing a good enough job teaching about the evils of anti-semitism?  Is it an ethnic thing? 
Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2005, 04:14:31 PM »



Them Orientals (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, who cares, they all look the same) must be the wealthiest people in the world.

After all, most of the stuff I own seems to be either made in China, Taiwan, Korea, or Japan.






NOTE: SARCASM ALERT! SARCASM ALERT!

Except for the newspapers.
and we don't order countries to build Holocaust memorials for them
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2005, 04:15:07 PM »

LOL...nah, man...it's a joke. Self-proclaimed church geek here...

Now, as for what you wrote...

To dislike someone IS to hate someone. To be angry at someone IS to hate someone.

ya'll hearin' me?

Eh...I dunno, man. Don't think so.

I mean, there're people I love that I don't necessarily like...I go to Christmas and Thanksgiving too, y'know Afro...but I most definitely don't hate 'em.

Like, if we strongly disagree with someone's motives and actions, and those actions are dangerous to the guy who does them and those around him, or if someone is just plain clueless and annoying, then...is it hating him to say we don't like him?

Don't really think that's what sdcheung was talking about, as what I'm saying usually applies to individual people, but...you feel me?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 04:16:32 PM by Pedro » Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2005, 04:15:24 PM »

Instead of turning this thread into a 'discussion' with anti-semite, I'd prefer to discuss why anti-semitism and Orthodoxy seem to go hand in hand.

Are our priests and bishops not doing a good enough job teaching about the evils of anti-semitism? Is it an ethnic thing?

look, don't call me an anti-semite, I love Arabs.
strange isn't it..the jews seem to have also co-opted the name "semite" exclusively for themselves too. I'll counter that too. 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 04:17:50 PM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2005, 04:17:48 PM »

sdcheung....if you study Judaeo-Christian ethnology, many Biblicists would say that Eastern Asian Orientals are ALSO descended from Shem.

FYI
Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,467


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2005, 04:19:11 PM »



Except for the newspapers.
and we don't order countries to build Holocaust memorials for them


And you missed the entire point of my post.

Have fun at the next cross burning.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2005, 04:19:27 PM »

sdcheung....if you study Judaeo-Christian ethnology, many Biblicists would say that Eastern Asian Orientals are ALSO descended from Shem.

FYI

maybe, maybe not.
i do know some Chinese Nationalists would be quite entertained by that.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2005, 04:20:15 PM »




And you missed the entire point of my post.

Have fun at the next cross burning.

yesh.. I chose to ignore it.
cross burning? barbaric.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2005, 04:22:22 PM »

Instead of turning this thread into a 'discussion' with anti-semite, I'd prefer to discuss why anti-semitism and Orthodoxy seem to go hand in hand.

Are our priests and bishops not doing a good enough job teaching about the evils of anti-semitism? Is it an ethnic thing?

It's really quite simple: anti-semitism and Orthodoxy do NOT go hand in hand.
Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,467


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2005, 04:22:45 PM »

Quote
yesh.. I chose to ignore it.

Then you are a troll who is not interested in any discussion, and therefore should be ignored.

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2005, 04:25:15 PM »



look, don't call me an anti-semite, I love Arabs.
strange isn't it..the jews seem to have also co-opted the name "semite" exclusively for themselves too. I'll counter that too.

Even though I strongly disagree with Photios, I have to agree with this one point, it is wrong that Arabs are not considered Semites for the purposes of a discussion of "Anti-Semitism."

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2005, 04:26:45 PM »



Even though I strongly disagree with Photios, I have to agree with this one point, it is wrong that Arabs are not considered Semites for the purposes of a discussion of "Anti-Semitism."

Anastasios

Anti-semitism has an agreed upon meaning, that being anti-Jewish.  As an example, Mexico is part of "America" yet when someone says "anti-American" we all agree that they mean anti-US. 

Logged
Rilian
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 98

OC.net


« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2005, 04:27:28 PM »

Before the Holocaust, most of the atrocities perpetrated against the Jews happened in Eastern Europe (admittedly also in Roman Catholic Poland and Eastern Catholic Ukraine). Of course, most European Jews lived in Eastern Europe.

Jennifer, I’m not certain that your statement is entirely, or even close to factually accurate. Certainly there was a good deal of institutionalized anti-semitism in Tsarist Russia, and differing levels of periodic violence such as the famous Kishinev pogrom. I think this was a phenomenon that manifested itself largely in the 19th century however.

In the larger scope of Western European history there are big events like the Crusades and the Inquisition which stand out, but there was a long history since the early middle ages of persecution of Jews. They were usually confined to specific areas in cities (which was the case in Rome up until the time of Pius IX) and were often subject to outbreaks of mob violence for reasons such as crop failure or the outbreak of the plague.

I’m not sure where the actual majority of Jews lived in Europe prior to the 20th century.

Also, I might note a piece of history that is often overlooked, and that is the fate of the Jews in Bulgaria during WWII. Tzvetan Todorov has written a book that chronicles the protection of Bulgarias Jews during the war, in large support with active support from the Orthodox hierarchy and faithful of that country. Aside from Denmark, Bulgaria was the only Nazi occupied country not to turn over its Jewish population for deportation to the labor and death camps. There are other individuals you could look at such as Mother Maria Skobtsova and Fr. Grigol Peradze.

You might also want to read about the late Fr. Alexander Men who was a Jewish convert to Orthodoxy, or Fr. James Bernstein, again a Jewish convert to Orthodoxy to find out their perspectives on this issue.
Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2005, 04:29:03 PM »



Then you are a troll who is not interested in any discussion, and therefore should be ignored.



Do as you wish.
I chose to ignore it, because as one firmly secured in who I am(Culturally, linguistic and History), that stuff doesn't bother me like it does some other people.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2005, 04:29:59 PM »

I don't like Zionism and I don't like the "State" of Israel. I believe in the Palestinian cause.

You do not believe that the Jews deserve their own nation?

"I will keep my promise to you and to your descendants in future generations as an everlasting covenant. I will be your God and the God of your descendants. I will give to you and to your descendants this land in which you are now a foreigner. The whole land of Canaan will belong to your descendants forever, and I will be their God."
Genesis 17:7-8
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2005, 04:31:05 PM »



It's really quite simple: anti-semitism and Orthodoxy do NOT go hand in hand.

yesh thats true.. we should love all arabs be they Muslim and orthodox, or syrian orthodox Wink
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2005, 04:32:21 PM »

Jennifer....by no means am I supporting anti-semitism in the Church.

but look at it this way.....many Orthodox peoples (Melkites in Lebanon, Jerusalem Patriarchate, etc.) have suffered immensely at the hands of the State of Israel. They have a lot of anger...and even though they know that Christ commanded us to love, they nevertheless struggle very much to do so.

Just like I'm sure,--assuming off-hand that you're working class--that you struggle very much to love the Republican Pary and the rich.
Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2005, 04:32:49 PM »



You do not believe that the Jews deserve their own nation?

"I will keep my promise to you and to your descendants in future generations as an everlasting covenant. I will be your God and the God of your descendants. I will give to you and to your descendants this land in which you are now a foreigner. The whole land of Canaan will belong to your descendants forever, and I will be their God."
Genesis 17:7-8

That was in the Old Covenant.
They should be in the New Covenant. Rather We orthodox are New Covenant Jews.
and we held Palestine for a time. During the Empire. Wink
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2005, 04:33:29 PM »



Anti-semitism has an agreed upon meaning, that being anti-Jewish. As an example, Mexico is part of "America" yet when someone says "anti-American" we all agree that they mean anti-US.



And I believe that the term can and should be changed to include all Semites. Is Photios anti-Jewish? That would be a better question to ask.

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2005, 04:34:26 PM »

But they own the land of Israel through an EVERLASTING Covenant. As Paul said, "The gifts and the call of God are irrevocable".
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
idontlikenames
I'm gonna be the next Matthew777 (whatever that means)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 230

You forgot my briefcase


« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2005, 04:35:15 PM »

You're completely right sdcheung......

All the prophecies about Israel were fulfilled by King Solomon's reign.

If you don't believe me, read "A Second Look at the Second Coming"...I forget the name of the author.
Logged

laa ilaah illa al-Maal wa Rothschild howa nabeehi
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2005, 04:35:29 PM »

But they own the land of Israel through an EVERLASTING Covenant. As Paul said, "The gifts and the call of God are irrevocable".

I thought it was broken when they denied Jesus.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2005, 04:36:12 PM »



You do not believe that the Jews deserve their own nation?

"I will keep my promise to you and to your descendants in future generations as an everlasting covenant. I will be your God and the God of your descendants. I will give to you and to your descendants this land in which you are now a foreigner. The whole land of Canaan will belong to your descendants forever, and I will be their God."
Genesis 17:7-8

No, I do not believe that the Jews deserve their own nation in a political sense, although now that they have it, and there are people born there that have nothing to do with their forefathers' actions, I think they have a right to defend their homeland, but am uncomfortable with it nonetheless.

In a religious sense, the Church is the New Israel so that passage you referenced refers to the Church. The Christian people will always have a right to have a home in the Holy Land.

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2005, 04:36:38 PM »

But they own the land of Israel through an EVERLASTING Covenant. As Paul said, "The gifts and the call of God are irrevocable".

Just to be clear, that covenant is with us, after 33 AD.
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2005, 04:37:43 PM »



And I believe that the term can and should be changed to include all Semites. Is Photios anti-Jewish? That would be a better question to ask.

Anastasios

LOL..not anti-Jewish.
I do like secular, de-religionized, de-historized Jews. ie. Passover jews (like our Christmas-Easter Christians.)
and willing to leave us (me) alone about the past.
They do have some cute chicks though.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 04:39:27 PM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2005, 04:40:41 PM »

Jennifer....by no means am I supporting anti-semitism in the Church.

but look at it this way.....many Orthodox peoples (Melkites in Lebanon, Jerusalem Patriarchate, etc.) have suffered immensely at the hands of the State of Israel.  They have a lot of anger...and even though they know that Christ commanded us to love, they nevertheless struggle very much to do so.

Just like I'm sure,--assuming off-hand that you're working class--that you struggle very much to love the Republican Pary and the rich.

First, I'm not working-class.  I'm not quite sure where that came from. 

Being opposed to Israel does not equate to being against Jews.  Photios wrote that he "dislikes" Jews.  Without eve knowing them as individuals. That is racism, pure and simple. 

I can understand the anger directed towards the state of Israel and how it's difficult to separate it from the Jewish people.  However, none of the raving anti-semites I've seen on Orthodox boards are Palestinian.  Photios says he's Chinese.  What's his name from the other thread was Greek. 

Logged
Matthew777
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,497

Seek and ye shall find


WWW
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2005, 04:42:04 PM »

But if God gives a people land, and says that the land is theirs as an everlasting covenant, then don't they have everlasting ownership of that land no matter what they do?
Logged

He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how. - Friedrich Nietzsche
www.aramaicpeshitta.com
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.129 seconds with 73 queries.